should I move out ?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Should I bail? do you think that would wake her up?... that I absolutely can not and will not put up with her evil behavior towards her loving husband anymore? I'm this close to signing my lease contract at the apartment just to try to cut the rejection in half and to possibly wake her up. So should I do it?

 

My suggestion is to kick her out and go for full custody of the kids. Unless you honestly think she will be a good mother and when dating will only bring high quality men around the children. Focus on what is best for the kids first.

 

If you move out... she will easily get the house.

 

Dude...you brother molested your child. 13 is old enough to know better.

Your kids do not need a relationship with grandparents who would defend a pedophile. Lord help his kids, if he still has tendencies toward that sick behavior.

Just my opinion.

If your wife is not willing to work on the marriage, then do what you have to. But, please don't discount her feelings. After all, it was not your MOTHER's child who was molested. It was your wife's and your's. That is a huge thing.

 

I'm not a big fan of molesters, but... punishing people for being related to molesters is not acceptable. The parents are.... the parents. The mother will naturally want to believe the best of her son. If his wife can't understand or empathize... that further reinforces what a crappy person she is.

 

That said... there should be no contact for this brother! Zero! Forgiveness does not require forgetfulness.

[uncool]

....If you really gave a crap you wouldn't be around him at all. It's that plain and simple.

.... if you really cared you would stay away and take care of the resentment she's been feeling.

....You've been noticing it all these years, but aren't doing anything to solve it. You've known her resentment and how she feels and all you do is ignore her.

You assume that I actually knew about my wifes resentment and that as a punishment I should then commit suicide or something? Gotta love the internet boards where you can post whatever u want no matter how sensitive someone else's life is at the time...lol !!! God bless loveshack.... lol !! man you're a real peach.

I would like you to actually read posts before you blindly respond to them so you don't look silly.

Fine...I'll give you all a typical example of the so called "contact" and "support" I have in supporting the pedophile brother:

I was very close to my grandfather before he passed. I'll be damned if I'm not going to go to his awesome funeral because my psycho adopted brother sits 3 rows back from me. THIS is the kind of family functions I describe as the so called "contact" I have with him. You almost suggest we hang out and rub sun tan lotion all over each other. I already moved my family 100-miles from his location. Throw me a bone here.

 

My suggestion is to kick her out...

Thanks for the suggestion but that's more easily said than done. She is a really good mother to my children.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Thanks for the suggestion but that's more easily said than done. She is a really good mother to my children.

 

If that's the case... you should tell her in advance that you will be pursuing a divorce.

 

You don't have to be specific, but let her know that you can see some kind of wall of resentment she has put up, and that you are no longer willing to live with it.

[Distant78]

You assume that I actually knew about my wifes resentment and that as a punishment I should then commit suicide or something? Gotta love the internet boards where you can post whatever u want no matter how sensitive someone else's life is at the time...lol !!! God bless loveshack.... lol !! man you're a real peach.

I would like you to actually read posts before you blindly respond to them so you don't look silly.

Fine...I'll give you all a typical example of the so called "contact" and "support" I have in supporting the pedophile brother:

I was very close to my grandfather before he passed. I'll be damned if I'm not going to go to his awesome funeral because my psycho adopted brother sits 3 rows back from me. THIS is the kind of family functions I describe as the so called "contact" I have with him. You almost suggest we hang out and rub sun tan lotion all over each other. I already moved my family 100-miles from his location. Throw me a bone here.

 

Thanks for the suggestion but that's more easily said than done. She is a really good mother to my children.

 

How can I "blindly" respond to your posts? I'm not trying to protest hanging you but dude, just do the right thing and divorce. It's obvious you're not the person she needs to console with, hence your ignorance to her resentment. Just end it so she can move on and be happy. I won't throw you a bone until you stop being in contact the person who done wrong to your child.

[KraftDinner]

I've noticed the OP responds with anger and insults to anyone who expresses sentiments similar to the ones his wife did in the letter he read.

 

I am NOT making a judgement on you here so don't come down on me... just making a suggestion: maybe, since those posters may have an understanding of what your wife's thought processes are, you should try to hear them out, if what you want is an understanding of what is happening with your wife.

[uncool]

I've noticed the OP responds with anger and insults to anyone who expresses sentiments similar to the ones his wife did in the letter he read.

 

I am NOT making a judgement on you here so don't come down on me... just making a suggestion: maybe, since those posters may have an understanding of what your wife's thought processes are, you should try to hear them out, if what you want is an understanding of what is happening with your wife.

 

I'm not coming down on you and thank you for your insight... I just need ideas on how to proceed from here to remedy the situation and avoid divorce. You're right, some of the more ignorant posters just set me off w/immature negative accusative tones. Sort of like... "shame on you for not reading your wifes mind all these years... you bastard". Where I'm just now finding out about my wifes feelings and how there's no possible way I knew about anything because of her punishment of lack of communication to me.

 

Some people just react differently to certain situations. My other brothers daughter was abused by the pedophile brother also but his wife still enjoys intimacy w/him and they actually communicate w/each other and once in a while will even talk to the pedophile brother. My wife reacted differently with severe frigidity.... didn't even hint it had anything to do with our daughters abuse. It just got me wondering if she just decided I wasnt attractive anymore, or if I just sucked in the sack? or what? Now I finally know that it's something to do with a situation that happened long ago. Now what?

Huge huge guessing games here. What if seeing my brother at meager things like my grandfathers funeral (the so called types of contact) isn't what's pissing her off? what if its something else?

It's all a big fat secret.

What are my wifes needs??? What would draw her closer to her husband?

Is it an apology from me if she tells me what I did wrong? is it a golden certificate promising that I'll never have anything to do my my side of the family again? I feel like I've tried them all. How can I address her feelings if I don't know what she wants in order for me to remedy what she needs?

[DaisyLeigh]

My suggestion is to kick her out and go for full custody of the kids. Unless you honestly think she will be a good mother and when dating will only bring high quality men around the children. Focus on what is best for the kids first.

 

If you move out... she will easily get the house.

 

 

 

I'm not a big fan of molesters, but... punishing people for being related to molesters is not acceptable. The parents are.... the parents. The mother will naturally want to believe the best of her son. If his wife can't understand or empathize... that further reinforces what a crappy person she is.

 

That said... there should be no contact for this brother! Zero! Forgiveness does not require forgetfulness.

 

 

Being the parent of a pedophile does not excuse one from doing the right thing. It is what it is, no matter what you choose to "believe". You do not defend a pedophile. If the parents of the pedophile choose not to understand or empathize with the VICTIM and her/his parent, then they are ****ty people as well.

[uncool]

Being the parent of a pedophile does not excuse one from doing the right thing. It is what it is, no matter what you choose to "believe". You do not defend a pedophile. If the parents of the pedophile choose not to understand or empathize with the VICTIM and her/his parent, then they are ****ty people as well.

There are some assumptions that my parents are excusing and defending my pedophile brother. This did not happen. They both had a hard time living with him after that.

[uncool]

Talk to one of the Divorce Busting coaches, seriously dude.

just took your advice & spent $400 for 3 50-minute sessions....just had the first session w/the counselor lady.

 

After hearing my story she immediately seemed to un-relate the situation w/my brother and daughter to have much to do w/my wife's frigidity. So I'll go with it for now.

 

I am to not initiate any type of contact w/my wife and show no reaction whenever my wife starts any type of rejective actions or words towards me.

 

I like the "your words and actions have no effect on me" type of approach. We'll see what results. Hope this professional can help.

[dreamingoftigers]

Well at the very least, they encourage far better self-care and then you can build up the full strength to stay or go from the situation.

 

I haven't been looking at my self-care as much as I should. I know what it is like to want to get your walking shoes on.

 

I hope things start looking up for you.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

...After hearing my story she immediately seemed to un-relate the situation w/my brother and daughter to have much to do w/my wife's frigidity. So I'll go with it for now...

 

If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that the therapist perceives that what happened with your brother has little or nothing to do with your wife’s lack of interest in sexual intimacy. Well, honestly, what right does she have to make that assumption, especially is your wife has told you otherwise.

 

I am not trying to say your wife has a right to withhold intimacy, I am not saying she is being reasonable. But if your wife clearly states that the pedophile brother and the way that situation is being dealt with (or lack thereof) is a major factor in her inability to be intimate, how would the divorce buster have any ability to say that is not the case?

 

Now, if she's simply saying that you need approach the situation that as if there is more to it, perhaps I can go with that. If she is saying work on yourself, well that is extremely accurate. But if she's saying that your wife has no right or reason to withdraw because of the situation with your brother... that makes no sense to me at all.

 

Maybe I misunderstood what you are saying also. Please elaborate.

 

It's nice to see you work at this and trying to see how you can possibly improve the situation. Continue down that path, I am sure it will be worth it in the end.

[dreamingoftigers]

The wife actually hasn't told him anything, he has had to put things together mostly himself and from a letter he found of his wife's from therapy.

[uncool]

after hearing my sob story (similar to my first post) ... the counselor didn't say a thing about my brother/daughter or secret letter scenario. She went strait for daily relationship cause and effect issues... percieved by me to almost say that the brother/daughter thing isnt really suspected as the real reason of celibacy. Thus my homework to be an actor and ignore things she does to set me off. (comments & rejections) and not to initiate touch... I suppose to see what makes her tick and if there would be a positive reaction.

[Woman In Blue]

When we dated she could not keep her hands off me.. Then the wedding cake mysteriously put an end to her libido and it's only been getting worse especially the past 3-years. 10-months ago I asked my wife why she didn't want to be close to me any more. Her response was "I don't know"... and from there I was drifting and had absolutely no clue as to what the hell was going on.

Seems an awful lot of posters are so quick to judge the OP because he didn't bash in his 13 year old brother's head when he clearly crossed the line with the OP's then 2-year old daughter. Uncool has already explained that his brother, though married now with kids of his own, is not emotionally or mentally healthy, and never has been.

 

Where everyone's getting this nonsense about the OP "fraternizing with the enemy" simply because he still attends occasional family functions is beyond me. I guess you'd all prefer that Uncool completely shut his entire family out of his life forever and move his wife and kids to some compound in Montana where they grow their own communal food, homeschool their kids, sew their own clothers and live in a cabin. Jesus. Get real.

 

It would appear Uncool's wife was shutting down LONG BEFORE the molestation took place. Did everyone MISS the above quote where he mentioned the minute he got married, his wife began withdrawing and it's gotten worse over the years?

 

Uncool, I'm not going to bash you because you didn't get a gun and go shoot your mentally and emotionally imbalanced 13 year old teenage brother full of holes for a very unfortunate incident that should have never taken place. But it did happen and it sounds to me like you were able to overcome this ordeal with a lot of prayer and spiritual guidance - good for you.

 

You're a saint for putting up with your wife's continued hatred, total disrespect and obvious disgust for you year after year after year. You have more patience than I, because I would have been GONE years ago.

 

Good luck in your journey.

[Barrsitter]

A relationship is a two-way street. Both parties have to want it and work at it.

 

If only one person wants it, it isn't working.

 

Tell your wife if she won't open up and commit to the relationship, you are leaving. Give her 5 minutes to make her decision. If she says she doesn't know what to do, she's decided not to commit. Then you leave.

 

Dude-you can't live like that.

 

You sound like a warm, loving, intimate, wonderful man. There are many women out there who would love to be with a man like you.

 

Go and find who you are truly meant to be with.

[uncool]

this is from relationship author Michelle Langley @ womensinfidelity.com

The "stages" that women often experience during the course of their long-term relationships

Several years into my research I was able to identify distinctive patterns and behaviors in the women I interviewed. I categorized these into four separate “stages” that women often experience during the course of their long-term relationships. The stages begin with a loss of sexual desire.

 

Stage 1

 

Women at Stage 1 feel as though something is missing in their lives. They have all the things that they wanted—a home, a family, a great husband—but they feel they should be happier. Over time, many women in this stage begin to lose interest in sex. It is not uncommon for them to spend a great deal of energy trying to avoid physical contact with their husbands because they fear it might lead to a sexual encounter. They frequently complain of physical ailments to avoid having sex and often try to avoid going to bed at the same time as their husbands. They view sex as a job, not unlike doing the dishes or going to the grocery store. Some women in Stage 1 claim they feel violated when their husbands touch them. Their bodies freeze up and they feel tightness in their chest and/or a sick feeling in their stomach. The majority of women in Stage 1 feel as though there is something wrong with them, that they are in some way defective. They are also fearful that their disinterest in sex will cause their husbands to cheat, or worse yet, leave them.

 

this describes my wife to a "T"

Was wondering if anyone bought this book and if there's a solution to stage 1 ? (I've spent so much money lately I don't want to spend more) I don't think my wife has ever cheated... I think she's been stuck on stage 1 for a long time

 

BTW thanks to the last two posters... it's good to hear someone agrees with me.

[dreamingoftigers]

Seems an awful lot of posters are so quick to judge the OP because he didn't bash in his 13 year old brother's head when he clearly crossed the line with the OP's then 2-year old daughter. Uncool has already explained that his brother, though married now with kids of his own, is not emotionally or mentally healthy, and never has been.

 

Where everyone's getting this nonsense about the OP "fraternizing with the enemy" simply because he still attends occasional family functions is beyond me. I guess you'd all prefer that Uncool completely shut his entire family out of his life forever and move his wife and kids to some compound in Montana where they grow their own communal food, homeschool their kids, sew their own clothers and live in a cabin. Jesus. Get real.

 

It would appear Uncool's wife was shutting down LONG BEFORE the molestation took place. Did everyone MISS the above quote where he mentioned the minute he got married, his wife began withdrawing and it's gotten worse over the years?

 

Uncool, I'm not going to bash you because you didn't get a gun and go shoot your mentally and emotionally imbalanced 13 year old teenage brother full of holes for a very unfortunate incident that should have never taken place. But it did happen and it sounds to me like you were able to overcome this ordeal with a lot of prayer and spiritual guidance - good for you.

 

You're a saint for putting up with your wife's continued hatred, total disrespect and obvious disgust for you year after year after year. You have more patience than I, because I would have been GONE years ago.

 

Good luck in your journey.

 

Good on you for backing him up! I thought it was pretty crazy how everyone jumped on this bandwagon too!

 

I think what happened on this thread is probably the same thing that happened to Uncool at his very home. People get so reactive over hearing situations like this that they simply snap at whoever is available, in this case Uncool himself. The wife already knows who the perpretraitor is and still needs someone to vent all of this crap on. Who do unhealthy people generally choose? Their spouse.

[uncool]

It was suggested on another forum that I have my crap by the door and explain to her that I'm gone if she doesn't change.

The suggestion of having a talk w/my wife about how I plan on leaving if she doesn't change won't work for me because remember she won't participate in any conversation about us.

I don't want a divorce. I want my wife back. (I was just looking at my wife this morning and was blown away by her beauty and how attractive she is and what a good mom she is) I want her in the worst way. I want to shock my wife in to knowing things need to change and that's she's going to be instantly turned in to a single mom with a huge mortgage payment if she doesn't see the light.

I'd be only moving half way out just for the nights since Im at home 24/7 since I work out of a home office here at the house anyways.

So I was thinking about moving out for the nights in one of these 2 ways:

 

- not coming home that night... she'd text me and ask me when I'm coming home... then I'd text her back saying I don't live there any more and can't be in a loveless marriage anymore. Then I'd find someway to get her the heartfelt letter I wrote since she won't talk

 

0r

 

-having all my clothes gone out of the dresser and closet while she's out running errands and leave her a heartfelt letter on the bed about why I'm gone and how to get me back and just have the shock happen that way.

 

thoughts?

[DaisyLeigh]

It was suggested on another forum that I have my crap by the door and explain to her that I'm gone if she doesn't change.

The suggestion of having a talk w/my wife about how I plan on leaving if she doesn't change won't work for me because remember she won't participate in any conversation about us.

I don't want a divorce. I want my wife back. (I was just looking at my wife this morning and was blown away by her beauty and how attractive she is and what a good mom she is) I want her in the worst way. I want to shock my wife in to knowing things need to change and that's she's going to be instantly turned in to a single mom with a huge mortgage payment if she doesn't see the light.

I'd be only moving half way out just for the nights since Im at home 24/7 since I work out of a home office here at the house anyways.

So I was thinking about moving out for the nights in one of these 2 ways:

 

- not coming home that night... she'd text me and ask me when I'm coming home... then I'd text her back saying I don't live there any more and can't be in a loveless marriage anymore. Then I'd find someway to get her the heartfelt letter I wrote since she won't talk

 

0r

 

-having all my clothes gone out of the dresser and closet while she's out running errands and leave her a heartfelt letter on the bed about why I'm gone and how to get me back and just have the shock happen that way.

 

thoughts?

 

 

 

Just leave. She knows what is what.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

- not coming home that night... she'd text me and ask me when I'm coming home... then I'd text her back saying I don't live there any more and can't be in a loveless marriage anymore. Then I'd find someway to get her the heartfelt letter I wrote since she won't talk

 

0r

 

-having all my clothes gone out of the dresser and closet while she's out running errands and leave her a heartfelt letter on the bed about why I'm gone and how to get me back and just have the shock happen that way.

 

thoughts?

 

In my experience unless you are truly ending the relationship, you are only playing games... beyond that one of the worst things you can take away from a woman is her security.

 

I think you are approaching this the wrong way. If you are 100% serious about ending it, and only if that is 100% true (not that you want to play that way to get her to change - that's just a shortsided way to get what you want), then seek to seperate, without the need for the drama of a note or letter.

 

Now, my suggestion about your specific situation, you need to communicate with her honestly and from your heart. If the letter is how it must happen, then say that you need a couple of days to be on your own and clear your head - you are coming back after the two day retreat - and she needs to review your position while you are gone. Be clear that you want her, your marriage and everything else that you value (both in person and in writing). Admit that you are having a hard time dealing with the situation and you are coming to a crossroad.

 

I guess I am really accomplishing the same thing you are suggesting without the threat that "I'm outta here if you don't change bi***!"

 

I really wish I had this maturity in my earlier years, or at least someone to show me this maturity when I needed the most in my marriage. Remember, decide what your ultimate goal is and work towards that goal... no need to manipulate or play games or get what you want via threat of loss (even that threat of loss may be truly genuine).

[uncool]

one of the worst things you can take away from a woman is her security.

 

-good! I need her attention and she won't give it to me. She thinks I'll tolerate her behavior until I die

 

 

seek to seperate, without the need for the drama of a note or letter.

 

-No! she needs to know how I feel and why. Right now she does't know this because she won't let me tell her. A letter is the only other way I know. Also she needs to know I found her letter telling me she plans on leaving me. Right now she doesnt know any of this .... and she really needs to know these things because it will explain why I moved out.

 

 

say that you need a couple of days to be on your own and clear your head - you are coming back after the two day retreat - and she needs to review your position while you are gone. Be clear that you want her, your marriage and everything else that you value (both in person and in writing). Admit that you are having a hard time dealing with the situation and you are coming to a crossroad.

 

I'll consider this... thanks

 

 

 

I guess I am really accomplishing the same thing you are suggesting without the threat that "I'm outta here if you don't change bi***!"

 

-that's not really what I'm suggesting either

 

 

 

Remember, decide what your ultimate goal is and work towards that goal

 

yes, it's to have a wife that wants a strong relationship w/her husband and recognizes the effort he puts in to making her happy and loves him for that... also who can show affection

 

 

 

... no need to manipulate or play games or get what you want via threat of loss (even that threat of loss may be truly genuine).

 

-there's no manipulation... if she won't give her loving husband the very basic things that most men need... (communication & affection) I will leave her... I don't know one man who would want what I have now

 

 

--------------------

[dreamingoftigers]

In my experience unless you are truly ending the relationship, you are only playing games... beyond that one of the worst things you can take away from a woman is her security.

 

100% percent agreed, if you can't dish with talking about it/writing a letter first then you deserve whatever happens and however this blows up.

 

The leaving thing is a "man move" to get attention. In this case you will be speaking a language of disrespect to your wife. You aren't telling her that you can't live like that anymore, you are telling her that you don't trust her enough to deal with anything to you have to say and that you aren't even going to give her the chance to respond. Leaving is leaving, moving is moving.

 

You've bottled this up under so much pressure that you are now letting it explode. Write it out, deliver it, don't shame her about it. Don't just give her a laundry list of everything she has done wrong and how it hurts you etc etc.

 

You write a letter of what you envisioned having a family with her would be like. You write a letter of what you want to see with her.

 

Then you put down what the reality is and what you are willing to do to change it. Then ask her if she is willing to have an open mind about making some changes herself.

 

This isn't happening overnight one way or the other. You cannot expect a positive change from someone by letting them know how negatively you think of them and how much you lack faith in them.

 

I think you are approaching this the wrong way. If you are 100% serious about ending it, and only if that is 100% true (not that you want to play that way to get her to change - that's just a shortsided way to get what you want), then seek to seperate, without the need for the drama of a note or letter.

 

Agreed.

 

Now, my suggestion about your specific situation, you need to communicate with her honestly and from your heart. If the letter is how it must happen, then say that you need a couple of days to be on your own and clear your head - you are coming back after the two day retreat - and she needs to review your position while you are gone. Be clear that you want her, your marriage and everything else that you value (both in person and in writing). Admit that you are having a hard time dealing with the situation and you are coming to a crossroad.

 

Agreed.

 

I guess I am really accomplishing the same thing you are suggesting without the threat that "I'm outta here if you don't change bi***!"

 

But if she isn't willing to change or budge or make any sort of acknowledgement, then start to plan your pack-up, you did warn her. This does not mean that it is even over at that point if she starts to see what is coming down around her and how willing you were to work on things.

 

No one is saying that you should live a deprived life, (well no one that actually has an interest in your well-being anyways). What this poster and I are saying is that everything in a marriage follows a certain procedure, even in times of long-term distress. And there are reasons for that procedure.

 

I really wish I had this maturity in my earlier years, or at least someone to show me this maturity when I needed the most in my marriage. Remember, decide what your ultimate goal is and work towards that goal... no need to manipulate or play games or get what you want via threat of loss (even that threat of loss may be truly genuine).

 

I have a similar saying "pick a direction." Figure out what your destination is and how to get there.

[Barrsitter]

What is the point of staying with someone who doesn't want to participate in the relationship or who refuses to go to counselling or refuses to try to make things better?

 

That sounds a lot like living with a selfish, self-centred teenager. Yuck.

[uncool]

What is the point of staying with someone who doesn't want to participate in the relationship or who refuses to go to counselling or refuses to try to make things better?

 

That sounds a lot like living with a selfish, self-centred teenager. Yuck.

you're right.."selfish" is a great word to describe what's going on

[uncool]

mini-update: divorcebusting coach had me avoid initiating physical contact/touch... and at the same time act like anything she says or does... doesnt bother me. To have no reaction whatsoever.

Well guess what... she started sleeping in the same bed as me. (I know that's lame but it's a major step).

I usually like to snuggle up next to her but I've resisted even going past my 1/3 part of the bed. It was hard at first. Well after the first week of completely ignoring her...she actually touched my bare foot with her bare foot in the bed.... (so lame I know)

then for 2 nights in a row she began to snuggle up next to me and move over to my side of the bed ... this time without her street clothes on... in just her underwear. It was hard to not roll over and put my arm around her or look but not touch (she has an amazing body)... but I did it... I didn't snuggle back. The third night I finally gave in, as she came to bed in only her underwear and stuck her but in my crotch (spoon). I gave in, rolled over and spooned w/her and she stuck her leg between mine.... which unfortunately turned me on at the same time (I didnt want to scare her away if she felt an erection or anything. (can you tell it's been a while?..damn... I'm so weak). Thats the most initiated affection I've seen from her in many years. That was a week ago and there's been no affection since those 2 nights a week ago as I'm constantly analyzing what I did right those 2 nights.

 

I kind of got the vibe from her that she's a little nervous from my actions that I'm actually tired...and perhaps nervous I will leave her (gotta love the guessing games) I'm very leery though as she knows that I just made a lot of money this month and has been hinting about new furniture and kitchen cabinets. She could be using me.

So its valentines tonight. I bought her some nice flowers, put the kids to bed early, helped in the kitchen, she was laying in the bed after taking a bath, so I took a quick 3min shower (ok yes I was hopping for a little action tonight) got out of the shower and she was asleep (I think she was faking it)

So I'm thinking of sleeping on the couch tonight just to give her space to let her know that I don't want sex (even though I really do)or should I take care of my business in the bathroom then come to the bed w/her? (again)