Separated MMs

[maravilla]

You mean to say he wants an amicable divorce and yet will tell his wife about you after he files?! Ahahahaha, you got a real genius there. Good luck with that! I would love to know how he pulls that off.

 

yeah, like everything else he says, it doesn't add up. Makes 0 sense. He has this fairytale in his head where he can end it with her but still always have the option to stay in her life or go back to her, and be with me and have me always there for him so he's not lonely and so we have a lot of fun and hot sex. I see it now, what he envisions, and it's ridiculous.

[maravilla]

If I were an OW and my MM and I decided we wanted to be together and for him to get divorced...I would consider the divorce something I needed to know about. Because it greatly affects the most important relationship currently in your life and possibly the future.

 

If a man told me he was getting a divorce and wanted to KNOW that I wanted to be with him and would be supportive to him...

 

I would not, of course, involve myself in the details of the divorce between he and his wife...But I would KNOW and be able to verify that the divorce was happening, when, and its progress.

 

After all, if any other woman were waiting on XYZ to happen so she and her fiancé could get married...she would be part of the process or at least not have valid reasons to question that XYZ was happening at all.

 

Thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to say I want and feel I deserve. Not to scour the agreement with a fine-tooth comb but just to know the whens and hows and whats. And he's not giving that info. to me. He tells me he is going to his lawyer's on Friday but is hesitant to even tell me why he's going or what they are talking about. That's bs for sure.

[maravilla]

Where in this dialog does it show you he's proving he wants a future with you? This guy doesn't even look like a guy who threw all his eggs in one basket for you.... it's so clear your still the hidden person. So sad....this guy is clearly leaving all his options open he does not want to be alone. WEAK!!! This is why I walked away....Please focus on you...

 

He is weak. I am seeing him in a whole new light. Everyones' posts are so helpful. There is no one telling me there is hope. I guess that's a sign! I thought since he moved out... well, I'm dumb, I guess.

[maravilla]

Great post......and I have to say that had I handled my situation in that way, I would have found out the truth sooner.

 

To to OP......I know I'm cynical because of what happened to me, but have you actually VERIFIED (other than what mm is telling you) that he has actually moved out??

 

From what I've been reading from your posts he sounds like a confused man who is not certain of anything and he is telling you what he thinks you want to hear so he won't be alone, but I'm afraid he is keeping all his options open with his wife but keeping you also.

 

I know he moved out, we spend some nights at the place he's renting. More nights at my house because it's closer to everything and more convenient. But he has me over to his place a lot. And now he takes his son there for overnight visits. Of course I can't verify they are actually there but he texts me all night and calls me so I can't imagine him being deceptive enough to be doing that at his own house where his wife is at. But I'm paranoid now so it's not something I'd rule out. Although I really do think they are having a trial separation and he doesn't stay there with her ever.

[GreenEyedLady]

Not everyone needs an attorney to get a divorce. Mine didn't have one. But I knew exactly what was going on and saw the paperwork (even helped him with his).

 

So not everyone has to retain an attorney to be considered divorcing.

 

GEL

[maravilla]

What D? Gotta case number?

There's your status...there is NO D so no status can be given.

 

And his D lawyer he retained? His/her name?

 

All I want you to do is look at his ACTIONS. Forget the words for words are easily lies. What concrete ACTIONS has he taken? Simple actions like his case number...or even his lawyer's name.

 

True, there is no case number. He hasn't told me he's filed and I actually checked the court records to see if she filed. I had a sneaking suspicion that she had filed against him and he was only with me because he couldn't get back with her. Well she hasn't filed. I guess I will have to go by his word that she wants him to come home but he wants to be with me.

 

I know the name of the lawyer he's been talking to, he's a popular/good divorce lawyer here who MM is acquaintances with and has referred people to, like his friends and colleagues. Do I have proof that they talked? No, although he offered to show me the lawyer's call to his cell phone from the lawyer's cell phone (which I thought was an odd offer and declined). Do I have proof he's meeting with him Friday at 3? NO. Actually he had told me over a week ago that he had set up a meeting with him at a restaurant because he couldn't go to his office because everyone would know why he was there. I guess that meeting never happened, just phone conversations, and now he is giving me the same story. It seems like he tells me he's done things before he's actually done them, and then he does them. Maybe he's gauging my reaction or getting himself ready to do them, or something. And most importantly, he hasn't retained the lawyer or paid him any money and I doubt he will be doing that on Friday because he said it's an hour-long meeting at a restaurant (you'd think the lawyer would have him come to the office and pay him with a check like all the other business transactions). Maybe he's just talking to the lawyer as a friend?! He said that on the phone the lawyer told him that if he's going to lease a house then it's more seriously headed towards divorce and also that his lawyer, who has been married three times, joked that he always tells people that after every ten years of marriage they need to live apart for six months to decide if they want to stay married or not, so he recommends not doing anything for six months. Now why would a lawyer say that, it wouldn't make him any money. It's so confusing. So all I know is that he has talked to this lawyer buddy of his, and yes he's a divorce lawyer, but it may not have gone beyond casual smalltalk and that he's 'meeting' with him on Friday for an hour at a restaurant. I don't even know of course that all of that is true, but, going by what he's told me, that's what I know. So no it is not much at all.

 

 

Well if he told his W that he moved out as a trail separation and NOT because he is filing so he can marry you then you are getting jerked around.

 

I guess I am!

 

 

Because he doesn't know if you are worth it for HIM.

You are, in essence, asking him to give up everything he worked for in life to be with you. And he's known you for 7 months. And your old enough to be his daughter. That's why.

 

Well then why does he always tell me I'm the love of his life and he wants to be with me forever and he's getting divorced? I never thought he would get divorced, I guess I'm turning out to be right, but why would he tell me that? Several times I have broken us off and each time he comes back stronger and tells me HE wants to be with ME. Why does he do that if he doesn't know if I'm worth it for him? It's so confusing.

 

 

Fair to his kids? Nope.

Fair to you? Nope.

Fair to his W? Nope.

Fair to him? Hell yeah it is.

(HE gets to CHOOSE which path and everyone just WAITS for him to decide...and I promise the story he feeds the W is FAR different from what he tells you).

 

All very true. Thanks for helping me open up my little blind eyes. I just feel angry, and sad. And sick to my stomach for believing him.

 

Impossible. I don't even know what state you are in and I can PROMISE it wont happen before next year. No way he gets on the docket that fast. Civil cases ALWAYS have a long line. Hell, just call the county clerk and ASK...they can give you a rough estimate of when it gets before a judge. You know, for a man who wants a D, he isn't doing much (other than talk about it) to get the answers.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean that he said his divorce would be finalized before thanksgiving. Just that he would file, and be 'done' with his marriage for good, by then.

 

 

Here's a shock for you. I bet the W doesn't know you are STILL in the picture. My money is on he told his W he wants to "clear his head" and that the A is over. I bet she has no idea you are around. Ever look at his call and text record on his cell phone? Try it...

 

I've started to realize that so it's not too much of a shock. It doesn't make sense that she'd be sticking around if he told her what he's telling me. He is clearly saying something different to each of us. I think he must be telling her that they need a break to think, and she probably agrees. I've looked at his phone and email (which is on his phone) and he doesn't seem to be talking to her except about the kids. But then again he'll brag to me that he only responds 'ok' when she texts about the kids, and show me on his phone, so it's possible he could be deleting other texts that are more than that. I don't know anymore. It doesn't seem to me that they have any contact, at first he was sending her mixed messages by always going back to the house and I told him that wasn't cool with me and that if he was really done with her it wasn't fair to her. So then he stopped that. What's frustrating is that if I explain what I want he usually listens and does it. But why does it take me explaining it? I feel like these things should be obvious.

 

 

Did you ever envision this? Or did you think you would find a man who ACTUALLY WANTS YOU. A man who chooses you...well, for YOU. Because of who you are.

 

Not because its easier for HIM.

 

I can promise you that man is out there. The man who says it and PROVES it with easily observable and PUBLIC ACTION. Like...going to Thanksgiving WITH him. By being open and honest and PUTTING YOU FIRST.

 

Its not love if he chooses actions which cause you pain or doubt. A man in love NEVER chooses that for the one he loves.

 

Choose love...and this ain't it.

 

Sorry...but that's how I see it.

 

Walk. Cry your tears, learn your lesson and find that man.

 

That is some powerful advice, thank you. MM says he's madly in love with me and chooses to be with me but if that were true then he wouldn't be hesitating so much. Maybe he just wanted someone. He told me in the beginning that I wasn't his type. So maybe he just fell into being with me because he was unhappy. But really it is way more about him than me. Thanks for pointing that out because I have been considering a lot of stuff about him and his wife but not that much about him and me. I just assumed we were good together but maybe not.

[maravilla]

Not everyone needs an attorney to get a divorce. Mine didn't have one. But I knew exactly what was going on and saw the paperwork (even helped him with his).

 

So not everyone has to retain an attorney to be considered divorcing.

 

GEL

 

He says he wants an attorney because he has a lot of assets. And he told me she went to see an attorney. But I know what you mean, thanks for pointing that out. It's not really the attorney I'm concerned about but not being let in on what is going on. I don't want to help him with the paperwork, he would probably enjoy that, I feel like he needs me to do the yucky stuff for him, and I just can't. But yes I would want to see the paperwork to verify and just because until now we have been so involved with each other's lives, so why leave this part out?

[Confused4Now]

I know he moved out, we spend some nights at the place he's renting. More nights at my house because it's closer to everything and more convenient. But he has me over to his place a lot. And now he takes his son there for overnight visits. Of course I can't verify they are actually there but he texts me all night and calls me so I can't imagine him being deceptive enough to be doing that at his own house where his wife is at. But I'm paranoid now so it's not something I'd rule out. Although I really do think they are having a trial separation and he doesn't stay there with her ever.

Moving out for the sake of separation is much more different than a divorce moving out. My xMW husband moved out for 6 months in '08 to '09 and she kept telling me she was telling everyone it was a divorce. Well no paperwork was filed....then H moved back in the house where he's been now for 17 months now....does that sound like a divorce to you? Just be careful and as GEL said he can do the divorce himself.

[maravilla]

Moving out for the sake of separation is much more different than a divorce moving out. My xMW husband moved out for 6 months in '08 to '09 and she kept telling me she was telling everyone it was a divorce. Well no paperwork was filed....then H moved back in the house where he's been now for 17 months now....does that sound like a divorce to you? Just be careful and as GEL said he can do the divorce himself.

 

Very true. I just talked to him over lunch and he said when he first moved out he wasn't sure how long he'd be able to do it and how he would feel. But it turned out that it was the right decision and now he's excited about moving into the long-term lease (the house he is looking at this Saturday, and he says he wants me to come with him). He said that he sees a goal in front of him and a bunch of crap in the way and he wades through the crap to get to his goal, perhaps not at as fast of a pace as I would prefer, but he's getting there.

 

I feel like it was the most honest he's been in a long time, if only because I pretty much made him be honest by telling him that things weren't adding up, that I didn't feel he was being totally truthful and that I know he has to be confused and unsure and have more emotions than he lets on. He actually got teary-eyed and said it's sad and hard and he doesn't talk about all of that with me because he focuses on the end goal of us being together and he tries to stay positive, but he's sure he's going to file, he just dreads the conversation where he has to tell her, because he really doesn't want to hurt her. I told him he needs to keep being honest with me and tell me where he's really at. He said he's not always sure where he's at, he has a lot of different emotions, but he's always sure that he does want to be with me and that requires getting divorced. He's also sure he doesn't want to stay married to her, and he talked about how if he were to go back home, he has fractured their relationship too bad to ever make it work again, and he wouldn't even want to try, so he's done. With or without me there for him he's done with his marriage.

 

For the most part it actually sounded like he was speaking from his heart and being honest with me and not all confusing. He did say one thing inconsistent... he said that when we have broken up before he didn't move back home. So that shows him he is done with her independently of me. Then I said, but we always get back together, so you never really believe it's over. He said true. I said what if it were really over and I was gone, would you go back home? And he said he doesn't know. So that was honest, but inconsistent with his prior statement that he knows he's done with his marriage with or without me. I can understand how he would want to stay married if we don't work out, and I can't really concern myself with what he would do if I wasn't in the picture because I am in the picture. But for me it's more about him being honest and us having good communication so that he doesn't get all inconsistent and confusing and leave my head spinning.

 

I feel better after our talk whereas lately I had been feeling just confused and mad after our talks. So I don't know if that's an improvement, or what. I feel like he was finally honest with me. I do know that he loves me and wants to be with me and that it's hard to get divorced and hurt her. I get all of that. But I just can't take him leaving the door open with her much longer. I think he gets it now, he understands my point of view and thinks it's reasonable and he knows he has to take action or I can't stick around. It's that simple really.

[jwi71]

Very true. I just talked to him over lunch and he said when he first moved out he wasn't sure how long he'd be able to do it and how he would feel. But it turned out that it was the right decision and now he's excited about moving into the long-term lease (the house he is looking at this Saturday, and he says he wants me to come with him). He said that he sees a goal in front of him and a bunch of crap in the way and he wades through the crap to get to his goal, perhaps not at as fast of a pace as I would prefer, but he's getting there.

 

I feel like it was the most honest he's been in a long time, if only because I pretty much made him be honest by telling him that things weren't adding up, that I didn't feel he was being totally truthful and that I know he has to be confused and unsure and have more emotions than he lets on. He actually got teary-eyed and said it's sad and hard and he doesn't talk about all of that with me because he focuses on the end goal of us being together and he tries to stay positive, but he's sure he's going to file, he just dreads the conversation where he has to tell her, because he really doesn't want to hurt her. I told him he needs to keep being honest with me and tell me where he's really at. He said he's not always sure where he's at, he has a lot of different emotions, but he's always sure that he does want to be with me and that requires getting divorced. He's also sure he doesn't want to stay married to her, and he talked about how if he were to go back home, he has fractured their relationship too bad to ever make it work again, and he wouldn't even want to try, so he's done. With or without me there for him he's done with his marriage.

 

For the most part it actually sounded like he was speaking from his heart and being honest with me and not all confusing. He did say one thing inconsistent... he said that when we have broken up before he didn't move back home. So that shows him he is done with her independently of me. Then I said, but we always get back together, so you never really believe it's over. He said true. I said what if it were really over and I was gone, would you go back home? And he said he doesn't know. So that was honest, but inconsistent with his prior statement that he knows he's done with his marriage with or without me. I can understand how he would want to stay married if we don't work out, and I can't really concern myself with what he would do if I wasn't in the picture because I am in the picture. But for me it's more about him being honest and us having good communication so that he doesn't get all inconsistent and confusing and leave my head spinning.

 

I feel better after our talk whereas lately I had been feeling just confused and mad after our talks. So I don't know if that's an improvement, or what. I feel like he was finally honest with me. I do know that he loves me and wants to be with me and that it's hard to get divorced and hurt her. I get all of that. But I just can't take him leaving the door open with her much longer. I think he gets it now, he understands my point of view and thinks it's reasonable and he knows he has to take action or I can't stick around. It's that simple really.

 

Good...I'm glad you are now ok with the situation.

 

The last thing I will say is...weigh his ACTIONS against his WORDS.

 

Best of luck to you.

[maravilla]

Good...I'm glad you are now ok with the situation.

 

The last thing I will say is...weigh his ACTIONS against his WORDS.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

Thanks, jwi71.

[carhill]

Hey OP, your post just caused me to review our docket online and I was pleasantly surprised to see our final judgment was entered two days ago. I'm officially divorced! I actually sent the docket just now to my exW and thanked her for being an amicable party in this dissolution. Like your MM, we had a lot of assets to settle out and I'm happy to report we did not pay one dollar in direct divorce-related legal fees. We used the county court self-help program and had a local law school mediate our settlement. Once I got things on-track (exW was petitioner), total time to dissolution was only three months, though we had a mandantory six month cooling-off period (Cali law).

 

This is an example of a man who says what he'll do and then does it. You have to decide what value you assign to that. I've been an OM in your shoes and can sympathize. The key I found is how actions define health. Your MM, just as my MW in years gone by, were/are unhealthy, hence incompatible. Once you accept that, you will be free, just as the nice judge/examiner has now freed myself and my exW. Good luck

[BB07]

maravilla, I'm afraid you are in for a rough hard ride and it will probably get worse before it gets better. I want to say protect your heart the best that you can because he may waver or some of them do go back even after all the things he has told you. As others have pointed out.......don't listen so much to what he says, but watch his actions and keep listening to your gut instinct. You gut NEVER lies but it's hard to decipher what it's saying sometimes. When I look back at all the undesirable or less that desirable relationships in my life if I had just listened to that inner voice, I wouldn't have made nearly as many mistakes and my heart would be a lot more intact.

 

Take care and strap yourself in.......and pull those straps tight.

[whichwayisup]

he has fractured their relationship too bad to ever make it work again, and he wouldn't even want to try, so he's done. With or without me there for him he's done with his marriage.

 

I guess time will tell.. A month in still isn't that long and sure he feels great right now, freedom, being alone, doing whatever he pleases, but when holidays roll around, Thanksgiving, Christmas, his kids birthday, etc he might feel differently. Also, fact that he HAS NOT sat down to talk to his wife, everything could change depending on her reaction. What if she pushes to go to marriage counselling and begs him for more time, to atleast do marriage counselling to salvage their marriage? He may regret one day NOT giving it his best and then walking away once knowing for sure it isn't working. Seems he's just afraid of doing hard work and compromising, changing behviours to make the marriage better.

 

Anyway, I still think you need to guide your heart. He still isn't sure, he says one thing but inside feels another and that WILL change daily/weekly.

 

Noone knows 100% right now what is going to happen so do yourself a favour, stop making plans for the future. He needs to not promise you anything or get your hopes up.

[maravilla]

Hey OP, your post just caused me to review our docket online and I was pleasantly surprised to see our final judgment was entered two days ago. I'm officially divorced! I actually sent the docket just now to my exW and thanked her for being an amicable party in this dissolution. Like your MM, we had a lot of assets to settle out and I'm happy to report we did not pay one dollar in direct divorce-related legal fees. We used the county court self-help program and had a local law school mediate our settlement. Once I got things on-track (exW was petitioner), total time to dissolution was only three months, though we had a mandantory six month cooling-off period (Cali law).

 

This is an example of a man who says what he'll do and then does it. You have to decide what value you assign to that. I've been an OM in your shoes and can sympathize. The key I found is how actions define health. Your MM, just as my MW in years gone by, were/are unhealthy, hence incompatible. Once you accept that, you will be free, just as the nice judge/examiner has now freed myself and my exW. Good luck

 

Congratulations, Carhill, it made me really happy to read this. I'm glad everything worked out well for you.

 

On the one hand, your post made me think that it's not too unreasonable for MM to be at this stage only a month out. I know some people take direct decisive action but I also know it was hard for him to move out and now he's moving into a long-term lease (or at least saying he's going to... only time will tell) and saying he's ready to file for divorce. On the other hand I agree with you that it's not healthy to be telling me he wants to be with me yet dragging his feet on the appropriate steps to make that happen. I do want a healthy partner and I don't know if MM is that healthy. At this point I think I'm kind of waiting it out to see what he does. I don't know if that's healthy of me, or normal, but it seems to be where I'm at. I'm accepting the situation better today, after having really talked it out with him, than I was yesterday, at least. Thanks for your advice.

[maravilla]

maravilla, I'm afraid you are in for a rough hard ride and it will probably get worse before it gets better. I want to say protect your heart the best that you can because he may waver or some of them do go back even after all the things he has told you. As others have pointed out.......don't listen so much to what he says, but watch his actions and keep listening to your gut instinct. You gut NEVER lies but it's hard to decipher what it's saying sometimes. When I look back at all the undesirable or less that desirable relationships in my life if I had just listened to that inner voice, I wouldn't have made nearly as many mistakes and my heart would be a lot more intact.

 

Take care and strap yourself in.......and pull those straps tight.

 

Last night my gut was telling me to r.u.n.! Today it is listening a bit more to my heart. I don't know what's up with my gut! Maybe I lack the courage of my convictions, like MM!, because I say and feel that I don't want to be with him like this, but yet I stay with him like this, telling myself that it's just temporary and in the name of love. Oh boy. You're right, this is a ride.

[maravilla]

I guess time will tell.. A month in still isn't that long and sure he feels great right now, freedom, being alone, doing whatever he pleases, but when holidays roll around, Thanksgiving, Christmas, his kids birthday, etc he might feel differently. Also, fact that he HAS NOT sat down to talk to his wife, everything could change depending on her reaction. What if she pushes to go to marriage counselling and begs him for more time, to atleast do marriage counselling to salvage their marriage? He may regret one day NOT giving it his best and then walking away once knowing for sure it isn't working. Seems he's just afraid of doing hard work and compromising, changing behviours to make the marriage better.

 

Anyway, I still think you need to guide your heart. He still isn't sure, he says one thing but inside feels another and that WILL change daily/weekly.

 

Noone knows 100% right now what is going to happen so do yourself a favour, stop making plans for the future. He needs to not promise you anything or get your hopes up.

 

You hit on some good points whichwayisup. He did say he's enjoying his freedom and he thought he would miss home more but he doesn't, he's excited to be on his own after so many years (all the while saying he wants to be with me -- away/ out of the marriage and with me).

 

I also asked him if he's sure he can really sit down and tell her he's leaving and if he's prepared to end the marriage for good, and have nothing more to do with her. He said he's prepared but he knows it's going to be hard and he's been thinking a lot about the best way to do it. He said it was easier than he thought it would be to move out so maybe telling her he wants divorced will be easier than he thought it would be too.

 

I too told him he may regret making heat of the moment decisions and I would rather him take his time if he's not totally sure he wants divorced. He asked me if I was advocating for him to go back to his wife and I said no, I'm just trying to be realistic and bring up things I'm sure he must have thought of but has maybe been unwilling to tell me. He said there's no way to be sure until he just does it, and then he knows he won't have regret, just like he doesn't have regret about moving out. I said he needs to grieve the loss of his marriage and I'm not sure how that is going to affect us. He said he knows we will be okay because we love each other. Well I don't want to be my own worst enemy so I just raised the issues and then shut up because if he is sure, well then, good, I'm not trying to persuade him the other way, there just seems to be a lot he hasn't thought of as he's so swept up in the heat of the moment.

 

And you're right that he doesn't want to make any long-term behavioral changes to be married to his wife the right way. I asked him what if he could go back and fix things and he said that never happens, an affair just destroys the marriage. I said what it was is over but I know that sometimes it can be rebuilt into something maybe even better. He said he thinks that's unrealistic and he not willing to try. Ok- again I don't want him to do these things but I guess I need to feel that he has considered all the options so that later he doesn't blame me or I don't blame myself for 'making' him end his marriage. He says I just motivate him and give him good things to think about. He says she changed so much since they got married and he's not in love with her and she is who she is so he needs to let her go because he's not happy. I know he was very vacant from his marriage for a long time but he doesn't seem to look at his own problems. That worries me that if something goes wrong with us or he doesn't like something about me he'll just escape instead of facing the issues. But I don't know what such a long marriage is like or all of the issues so I just try to listen to what he says and understand.

 

Good idea about not planning anything for the future. It's just unfair and unrealistic at this point. Thanks.

[maravilla]

My experience has always been that the gut knows better than the heart.

 

It will be interesting to see what goes down on Friday. Either which way I hope he stops stringing both you and his wife along. Quite selfish of him.

 

He isn't going to file tomorrow, he said he is just getting information from the lawyer, he wants to be prepared about how it all works and ask him for his advice on how to tell his wife before serving her.

 

I think he's expecting the lawyer to hold his hand but really I guess there's no great way to do it. I told him it will be ugly either way! He said he doesn't want a long drawn-out divorce. I understand that but delaying filing isn't going to make things easier!

 

He still hasn't told me when he is planning to file. He's told me he is going to ask his lawyer that. And he talked today about steps. The first step was moving out, the second was getting comfortable there and bringing his kids there so they can get used to it. Next he said is moving into a long-term place and then filing for divorce.

 

He said he told his wife he is moving into a place with a six month to a year lease and so she knows that means they are headed for divorce. I told him he's not the greatest communicator- he needs to just tell her straight up instead of making her guess. Yes that would be an action that makes her see he's headed there and actions are important but so is just telling her what's really going on (just like I want him to do with me!)

 

It's so weird, he said he's going to tell his wife that he met with his lawyer and she will be getting papers, and he said 'you know what her question will be... what kind of papers? and I'll say, divorce papers.' I said MM why can't you just tell her you are filing and she'll be getting divorce papers? Why do you have to make her ask you? I see (from what he tells me) that he does the same thing to her as he does to me. He's not being brave enough to just tell each of us what's really on his mind and what's really going on. So he just gives us bits and pieces to keep us guessing.

[carhill]

OP, psst, MM here (read my posting history)....exW and I had 'the conversation' after over a year of MC, and merely looked each other in the eye and said 'it's time to divorce' We then decided who would be petitioner and respondent, choosing her as the petitioner for fairness (in settlement) reasons as well as simplicity of service (easier for her to serve me than vice-versa).

 

The not so good thing, perhaps not applicable to your situation, is that, during this process, I discovered, completely independently, how unhealthy the OW was for me, reversing completely the perspective I had regarding her as the MW a generation ago. So, not only did I divorce my wife (or she me, if you read the court docket), but I ended the very long and emotional attachment I had to someone I had loved very much.

 

The lesson? Stay away from married people

 

Seriously...

[Pokemon]

I'm in the middle of the same crap with a separated MM, and all I can say is, if you protect yourself first, you have nothing (as much) to lose.

 

I just got to this point where I am making plans for myself (without him in it), guarding my heart and not letting him in. I know it's hard, but you have to do it. Eventually, if he does not divorce, or if he goes back to his wife, at least the rest of your life isn't in shambles.

 

It sounds like your MM is not sure about the divorce yet. If you keep pushing him, he is going to snap one way or the other. If you like a quick response (despite the outcome), then keep pushing him. It will most probably turn out detrimental to you though.

[NoIDidn't]

Maravilla

 

 

I've read this thread and I don't think you are being jerked around. I think he is scared and needy right now, but that's to be expected. And I'm not a big fan of affairs and the damage done to families.

 

A month out, and having only known you in an intimate relationship for seven months versus knowing her for over 16 years in a marriage plus however long they were married, I'd say his words and actions are pretty normal. He knows she will still be there for him, he doesn't know that about you. However, I don't think you owe him that level of dedication considering you know he cheated on a woman that was that dedicated to him.

 

You are in a tough spot. If you guard your heart, you will generate distrust in him as he will not feel that you are totally with him as he desires. If you allow him all the time he needs, you might still be in this position several years from now.

 

I agree that there are red flags here, but red flags don't mean that all is lost. They mean that communication needs to occur in a more open manner in some cases. He's said some things that cause concern, but he hasn't said he's going back home to sleep on a mattress or that his W is unstable and she needs him to come home for a bit.

 

One month out of the marital home is not a stable time. He's likely still figuring out his finances regarding his place, his kids, what he may be giving to his W (if anything, nothing wrong with that if she also has the means to care for herself). He's doing what I would do: gathering information before making decisions ignorantly or rashly.

 

Keep the communication going. Something you haven't done is be totally honest with him yourself. Tell him your feelings about things and how hard of a time you are having with trusting him when he comes across so needy and demanding of what he can't even guarantee you right now. Honesty goes both ways. You are both walking on egg shells because of fear - he fears you leaving him alone and you seem to fear him going back to her. Talking about both will help the two of you understand where the other is coming from.

[TinaniT]

It is a very confusing and hard time. I don't think where he is inconsistent it is necessarily lies. It's trying to mourn and move forward at the same time. Which is necessary and not easy. (and not always successful, true, but where you are at is where you are at- you can't change that you met him before the divorce is final, and that you love each other)

[maravilla]

Maravilla

 

 

I've read this thread and I don't think you are being jerked around. I think he is scared and needy right now, but that's to be expected. And I'm not a big fan of affairs and the damage done to families.

 

A month out, and having only known you in an intimate relationship for seven months versus knowing her for over 16 years in a marriage plus however long they were married, I'd say his words and actions are pretty normal. He knows she will still be there for him, he doesn't know that about you. However, I don't think you owe him that level of dedication considering you know he cheated on a woman that was that dedicated to him.

 

You are in a tough spot. If you guard your heart, you will generate distrust in him as he will not feel that you are totally with him as he desires. If you allow him all the time he needs, you might still be in this position several years from now.

 

I agree that there are red flags here, but red flags don't mean that all is lost. They mean that communication needs to occur in a more open manner in some cases. He's said some things that cause concern, but he hasn't said he's going back home to sleep on a mattress or that his W is unstable and she needs him to come home for a bit.

 

One month out of the marital home is not a stable time. He's likely still figuring out his finances regarding his place, his kids, what he may be giving to his W (if anything, nothing wrong with that if she also has the means to care for herself). He's doing what I would do: gathering information before making decisions ignorantly or rashly.

 

Keep the communication going. Something you haven't done is be totally honest with him yourself. Tell him your feelings about things and how hard of a time you are having with trusting him when he comes across so needy and demanding of what he can't even guarantee you right now. Honesty goes both ways. You are both walking on egg shells because of fear - he fears you leaving him alone and you seem to fear him going back to her. Talking about both will help the two of you understand where the other is coming from.

 

Thank you, noididnt, for sharing your objective perspective. I've been thinking more in line with your post yesterday and today, whereas before that I was getting confused, angry, upset.

 

When I think of all the positives, I think:

 

- He's shared everything with me from the beginning of our relationship, and has acted loving and interested in me and my life.

 

- He moved quickly to be with me.

 

- He's been consistent in saying he loves me and wants to be with me. He's never once said he wants to stay married. If he talks about going back home or staying married, it's always in the vein of, if he and I don't work out; if I'm not there for him anymore.

 

- He sees her in relation to the kids but I don't ever get the feeling that he still wants to be with her. It seems to be 'business-like' and like he just doesn't want to hurt her. He spends nearly all his time with me and he never looks for reasons to see her or goes back to stay at home etc.

 

- Whenever I have expressed any concerns, he's quick to do what it takes to address them and make me feel better. This is really important to me. As an example at first he was spending time over there having dinner with the family and I said, look, if you're out you need to be out. It's no longer your house (because he always said it would go to her and the kids) and you can't send mixed messages and you will never be the same family unit again. If you're not okay with that, I understand, but if you want us to be an us and not be married to her anymore then you can't be doing that because it's not fair to either of us. He said he understood and he never went back there like that again. He goes to pick them up and drop them off and a couple times he goes in to look at his son's homework or walk the dogs or shoot hoops with him but I've never felt that he was there to see her or hang out at home with the family like that one time. I've felt he was listening to what I needed and respecting my wishes and that meant a lot to me.

 

So even though there are issues I do believe that he wants to be with me. And I have shared all my fears with him. I guess I don't write about that on here because I was more concerned with what he hasn't shared with me. But I tell him everything and anything about what I'm thinking, to the point where he says I think too much (and he's probably right! I have anxiety by nature and this situation makes me feel all over the place.)

 

Perhaps I should just focus on the positive and give it time. What bothers me the most is that his wife thinks he isn't seeing me or talking to me. So I just don't know how long that situation can drag out. I don't like to be minimized and I do think he does it to keep a door open (I do understand that he does that not because he's unsure he wants me but because he's unsure that he and I will work out). And now is a fine time to be worried about her, I know, but I do feel bad that she still thinks there's hope and it's just some kind of trial separation when really, from everything he tells me and I do believe to be true in his heart, he is done with her and wants to be with me.

[maravilla]

Maravilla

 

A month out, and having only known you in an intimate relationship for seven months versus knowing her for over 16 years in a marriage plus however long they were married, I'd say his words and actions are pretty normal. He knows she will still be there for him, he doesn't know that about you. However, I don't think you owe him that level of dedication considering you know he cheated on a woman that was that dedicated to him.

 

You are in a tough spot. If you guard your heart, you will generate distrust in him as he will not feel that you are totally with him as he desires. If you allow him all the time he needs, you might still be in this position several years from now.

 

I wanted to add, noididnt, that this seems to be the main problem. You're right that he wonders if I'll be there for him. It seems like the closer he gets to being with me, the more I think about what he's doing to his wife. Hypocritical, I know! I just keep thinking, wow, she had his kids, raised his kids, my MM actually had a life-threatening disease that he wasn't supposed to live through and he did, and she was there for him through all of that, and now he just leaves her to be with me. I know it's not that simple, there are other factors that make him feel that he is not able to be with her because of, that he says I woke him up to. But I put that together with what carhill says about unhealthy relationships and I see that he is so needy and lost that he is just clinging to me hoping that I will save him from his unhappiness. And later on down the line, what if he gets unhappy again and someone else comes along that he looks at to save him? I really worry about this and I do talk to him about it and I'm sure that's why he's afraid I won't be here for him and he's keeping the door open with his wife.

 

But then I think, this is who he was when I got with him, sure I know him better now but this is who he is and I love him and what am I supposed to do? Leave him because he is willing to leave his wife for me? That makes no sense at all! Perhaps I am just as confused as he is, and wanting it all, because I want to be with him as a real couple but I don't want to watch him hurt his wife like this. And the two go hand in hand. I have a lot of guilt and I wonder how all of this will affect the future relationship. I guess I just have to realize that it's not a pretty situation but if we want to be together, it will work out and we just have to keep communicating and being honest. At this point I don't know what else there is to do.

[maravilla]

It is a very confusing and hard time. I don't think where he is inconsistent it is necessarily lies. It's trying to mourn and move forward at the same time. Which is necessary and not easy. (and not always successful, true, but where you are at is where you are at- you can't change that you met him before the divorce is final, and that you love each other)

 

Thanks Tinani. I just want to clarify that I met him while he was married and living at home. He then moved out and is separated. You're right that it's a lot to handle all at once and he is trying to deal with his emotions about ending his marriage and also be with me and be excited about our future. I'm sure he has so many different emotions going on and that's why I have usually cut him some slack, if he said something inconsistent or what I would consider to be strange or wrong. I know he's dealing with a lot. I just hope that somehow he can properly put his marriage to rest while also starting a new life with me. I sometimes doubt that it's possible, but I know people have done it and he says he wants to do it, so, I know I need to support him even when it feels hard.