She is crazy and she won't stop?

[taras18]

The past 8 or so months have been hell, so stressful, so frustrating and aggravating.

At this point all I need is advice and someone to tell me it's all going to be okay because right now I am terrified of someone I haven't even met.

 

Me and my boyfriend know this girl who has caused nothing but problems since we've met her 8 months ago.

First it started off okay, we all talked together with a bunch of Friends on MSN and there was no problems,I never suspected she was crazy or had any problems, then she started falling for my boyfriend. I understood the situation because my boyfriend is very nice and outgoing so I let it slide and just thought of it as a little crush, over the next few weeks it started to get out of control..it seemed each day she started liking him more and more and expressing it to him,telling him how much she likes him etc. and then telling him she actually wanted to be with him. She knew we were in a relationship from the first day we met her, she never acted like she liked him infront of me but she always went behind my back and told him and let her heart out to him like crazy, my boyfriend showed me all she said and she had no idea i knew anything and she acted like nothing was going on to me or around me. I still let it slide because my boyfriend lives far from her and I thought she'd just get over it, but she didn't, it started getting way out of control. They talked about a lot and she told him some personal things that shocked and scared the both of us. She told my boyfriend she was admitted into a mental hospital after a serious relationship ended and she tried killing herself repeatedly and that she is Bi polar and depressed and has thoughts of killing herself quite regularly and is severely depressed and on anti depressants and meds for anxiety..

For anyone this would be quite scary to find out but what bothered me is the fact she told him while claiming she was madly inlove with him, it kind of seemed like the reason she told him was for him to have no way out.

After telling him this she started to act out, she started showing her "depression" and bi polar self..and it made me quite frustrated because I personally felt it was all for attention. She started lying regularly, trying to get his attention by saying stupid things such as "I keep thinking about killing myself lately.." after he told her she needed to stop expressing her feelings to him because it wasn't an appropriate thing to do or respectful especially because she knew he was in a relationship and she talked to me daily as well.

I knew all that was going on, she had no idea I knew but my boyfriend showed me everything she was saying and just from reading what she was saying was really frustrating and upsetting me because she was stressing out my boyfriend and there was nothing I could say or do because she didn't know I knew what was going on.

she started getting obsessed and my boyfriend had to tell her to please stop because it was getting way out of control. She threatened suicide a few times over him...and then i stepped in and told her what she is doing isn't right, she apologized and told me she understood and we moved on from it and I thought maybe she would stop because she knew I knew now.

A week later she tells him she loves him after he had a long talk with her telling her all of it needed to stop because it was getting out of control she threw i love you in his face to make him feel bad.I then stepped in AGAIN because at this point it was getting way to crazy, she would sign on drunk and cry to him, telling him she loved him, wanted to be with him etc. I had to fight her away from my boyfriend for a good month, lots of drama and lots of fights.

She now is a completely different person then what we both thought she was. I don't talk to her anymore but my boyfriend does because he is scared to stop because of her suicide threats. She hates me and made it quite clear after me having to chase her off my boyfriend. She actually wrote and sent my boyfriend a "hate list" about me in an e-mail once, insulting me and telling my boyfriend why she hates me. They got in a big fight over it and of course she acted out and threw the depression thing in his face. Everytime she starts a fight(which is daily..) she throws the bipolar and depression excuses in his face. She uses her illnesses for an excuse to be a bitch and cause problems and it's sickening. She is very aware of what she does and the problem is she is just selfish and has no respect for anyone or cares whos feelings she hurts or plays with. She states opinions on everything, including me and my boyfriends relationship, very harshly and doesn't care how rude it is, she'll just say whatever.

I don't even talk to her anymore but the way she has been treating my boyfriend the past few months has really bugged me. He has done nothing but respect her and be there when she needed someone to talk to and she walks all over him and disrespects and lies to him for what reason? because 4 months ago he didn't fall inlove with you? it's pathetic. She is a big bitch to him, she is always causing fights and arguments with him.

She apparently doesn't like him anymore but I find that extremely hard to believe because she acts out like a child and craves attention from him. Such as starting a fight then signing off and ignoring him for a few days and then signing on and trying to talk to him again. She's dating some guy now but the way she is treating my boyfriend is really on my nerves. He is constantly stressed over her bull**** and drama and she even tries blaming him for her obsessing over him, she takes no responsibility for her actions and never apologizes and if she does she goes back to her childish behavior the next day. I'm sick of her, I never hated anyone but I can honestly say I hate her.

All she does is lie, disrespect, and be a bitch to my boyfriend after all shes done she actually has the balls to treat him how she does, after all shes put him through. She's caused so much drama the past 8 months..it gives me a headache even thinking about it. She is 20 years old and i'm 18 and she's gotten her 21 and 22 year old friends to call my cell phone in the middle of the night and harass me, shes done so much to the point i've almost called the cops on her and i haven't even met her! How can someone cause so much without even personally meeting them? I personally don't know if the bipolar thing is all an act or the depression or the mental hospital story or the other 40 stories she fed my boyfriend, My personal opinion is it is all for attention. But i'm so sick and tired, I have no more energy. I need HELP!, please someone...what should I do? My boyfriend is scared to stop talking to her because of her suicide threats, she has him stuck.

Edited October 30, 2010 by taras18

[Kendrick]

All of this took place over MSN? You or you b/f have never met her in real life?

 

The first thing your b/f should have done when you and him both reconized things with her might not be right was to cut all contact with her. I understand you let things slide, but the sliding is what got you here now. If this was all done over the computer, you and him (especially him) should have deleted her from his contacts on there and reported her.

 

If shes calling your cell or getting her friends to, to harrass you, you need to have your number changed and once again report her. It doesn't matter if she has a mental illness, do not let that be why you don't report her for harrassment etc. Also, your b/f is NOT responsible for what she may or may not do as far as suicide attempts. That's not a reason for him to continue to talk to her. He needs to cut all ties, period. He can not be a friend to her or save her from her condition. Right now you both need to worry about cutting all ties with her, and any of your friends that are friends with her too, might want to do the same.

[taras18]

Thank you I know we need to...but, were scared of her causing drama even after we delete her, I don't want to have to get my parents to change my house number and such and she is that immature she would..

[EnigmasMuse]

Thank you I know we need to...but, were scared of her causing drama even after we delete her, I don't want to have to get my parents to change my house number and such and she is that immature she would..

 

 

She is winning. She has power over you all because you are allowing it. Delete her, change your numbers and let the cops be aware. To sit back and do nothing at all, is just an invite for her to keep on. At least the proper people will be notified.

[KikiW]

You should be able to have numbers blocked from calling, call your phone carrier to ask them how. After the second time of an unknown number making a harassing call, assume it's her and block the number. Save any threatening voicemails and involve the police if you have to.

 

By continuing to communicate at all with this girl, your boyfriend is continuing the drama. Tell him to cut that tie immediately. She sounds like she has a lot of problems and neither of you need to be involved with them.

[sammyd]

Echo the other comments, and block her. You both should have been done a long time ago, especially as your boyfriend is with you, not her!!

It's her problem not yours, sorry to sound callous, but this kind of person is only doing it for attention.

[Downtown]

Taras, the behavior you are describing is that of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), not bipolar. I mention this confusion is very common and gives folks the mistaken impression that bipolar sufferers behave that way. As the parent of a bipolar foster son and the exH of a BPDer, I can tell you there are several clear differences between the two disorders. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year.

 

In sharp contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. BPD rages, for example, typically last about 5 hours and rarely as long as 36 hours (if the BPD sufferer is inner-directed, you will not witness a raging screaming person but, instead, a quiet withdrawn person who turns her anger onto herself).

 

A second difference is that the onset is very different. Whereas a bipolar change may occur over several weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 15 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action.

 

A third difference is that, whereas bipolar can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness you see when a BPD is splitting you black. The difference is huge: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPD person can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. This likely explains why you witnessed such hostile and abusive behavior from the young woman.

 

Finally, a fourth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if she knows you well. Untreated BPDs, however, are unable to trust -- even though they sometimes may claim otherwise. This lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when a person does not trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will.

 

Yet, despite these four clear differences between the two disorders, many people confuse the two. One source of this confusion seems to be the fact that a substantial portion of BPD sufferers also have the bipolar disorder. But having bipolar does not mean a person has BPD. This is a huge difference because, whereas bipolar is usually treated successfully with a pill, BPD consists of emotional damage to the person's emotional core and thus takes years of therapy to learn how to control it.

[taras18]

Taras, the behavior you are describing is that of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), not bipolar. I mention this confusion is very common and gives folks the mistaken impression that bipolar sufferers behave that way. As the parent of a bipolar foster son and the exH of a BPDer, I can tell you there are several clear differences between the two disorders. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year.

it is actually somewhat of a relief you mentioned this because I've talked to her best friend Sarah recently and she said the exact same thing. She does not think she's Bipolar either, I've read up on Borderline Personality Disorder quite a lot lately and it seems to fit her perfectly, the thing is I have no idea what to do. I don't want my boyfriend putting himself in anymore harm by talking to her but knowing this now is very frightening.. She has told me and him clearly she is Bi polar but we beg to differ it's just that, there is just no possible way. Lately, she's been acting up again a lot. Tonight she texted my boyfriend telling him she is in the middle of a fight at her boyfriends house with her boyfriends roommate, roommates ex girlfriend and her boyfriend and her boyfriend called her and asked her to come over and help, Apparently they are in a big fight as we speak about her boyfriend using the roommates ex girlfriends mattress because he doesn't have one and the girl is mad over it because she wants it back and they don't want to give it back and are fighting to continue using it. My boyfriend replied back to her text saying to give the girl her mattress back as it is her mattress and she has a right to take it, a few minutes later...she texted him back saying "Well my boyfriend needs it to sleep" He replied back saying "it's the girls mattress, if she wants it, give it back...it's rightfully hers and she can take it, give it back and save from trouble" She texted back instantly, she snapped on him saying "SHUT THE F*CK UP". it was out of no where... she randomly goes through these spills of anger towards my boyfriend when he does nothing wrong. She'll ask him for help and then snap on him! it's quite sickening how she treats my boyfriend..he's very kind hearted and she is treating him so horribly.

What is it we should do?? The possibility of her having Borderline Personality Disorder is even scarier to think about! as it can result into some serious problems... Please help, "Downtown" what is it you suggest? you're the first person besides her best friend to notice her condition might be more serious than Bipolar.

[spiderowl]

I'm pretty baffled as to why your boyfriend continued talking to her. You say it's because he was scared she'd commit suicide or something but he carried on talking all along, despite her outrageous behaviour and then drawing you into it. I'd consider his drawing you into it like that, for such an extended period, an invasion of the other girl's privacy. I'm not suggesting for one minute that her behaviour is acceptable, and it certainly is worrying, but your boyfriend should have dealt with this on his own much earlier.

 

I can see she is a worry and sounds mentally unstable. I suspect part of why you hate her so much is that your boyfriend is letting her get the upper hand with him and he is letting you know about it too. You feel the need to fight her off and to protect him from her. He should be grown up enough to have dealt with this himself. To a certain extent, he has let her into your lives and I have no real knowledge of whether he is actually encouraging this drama in any way. I wouldn't assume he is an unwitting victim at all. Could he not have calmed her down and encouraged her to seek help?

 

How to get rid of her is a real problem because of the way this has escalated and that she will now see herself as part of your lives. You could both just block her but I think you ought to tell her that you don't want her to contact you again, not just do it. Otherwise, she is left with an unfinished situation she doesn't understand and that will drive her to try to find a resolution. You could encourage her to seek help, though if you are not in contact any more this may not be possible. Your boyfriend could do this. Certainly, if you have any fears that your or your boyfriend's safety could be threatened, especially if she continues to bother you after telling her to leave you alone, then contact the police. Be mindful of personal security whilst indoors and out. You cannot assume that all is OK if you are no longer in contact with her. If someone is mentally unstable, they are not thinking and behaving as a normal person would. This is why I think just blocking is not wise, cutting her off online is not going to make the problem magically disappear unless she has absolutely no idea who you are, who your boyfriend is, or where either of you live and work.

 

It might be of help to contact your local social services department to discuss this with them. Social workers have a lot of experience of dealing with disturbed people and might be able to advise you on what not to do, if anything.

[taras18]

I can honesty say that it's an easier said then done situation 100 percent..

Because of her disorder having the fact she could kill herself over anything at any moment is a lot to carry on ones shoulders and that is what we fear. We don't know exactly what she is capable of doing to herself and being caring people we don't want her to end up hurting herself.

I also find my boyfriend feels guilty for a lot she says and does because she makes him feel like it's his fault, she pulls the guilt trip on him constantly, she'll put him in situations to make him feel guilty of something to make herself feel better about herself. She is constantly picking little fights with him because she knows she causes the problems but doesn't want to take the full responsibility for it, so she'll go into sympathy mode or guilt trip him. Like you said, just blocking her isn't a good idea which is why he hasn't acted on it, as for me I was never as talkative with her as him so she didn't have an attachment to me when I blocked her, she also did the same to me because of the whole fighting over my boyfriend situation. He doesn't start up problems with her at all thats the thing...i've seen all the conversations and he has not once started the fight with her. She gets into random moods where she just feels the need to treat him like pure ****. I don't know why she does it, she calls him a "brother" and says she really cares about him yet all her actions towards him never ever prove that! She treats him like she hates his guts, which is where I think a personality disorder comes in. It's the only thing that makes sense unless she's completely all doing this for attention which still needs some sort of professional attention because that is in no way okay.I'm not picking sides either, I felt bad for her many times and still do sometimes but I keep asking myself why? when she doesn't care about anyone but herself why am I feeling bad for her?

[Downtown]

Taras, Kendrick nailed it at the beginning and all but one respondent agreed. The two of you should go No Contact with her and block the calls. If you cannot avoid her, you should act like the two most boring, confused people in the world, e.g., "Maybe you're right, I'm having trouble figuring things out now" and "I don't have time to worry about that now" and -- the 1980's classic, "Whatever." Hence, you should go NC if possible and, if not, disengage so as to avoid feeding her need for drama.

...lots of drama and lots of fights.

BPDers (i.e., those with strong BPD traits) love drama. Generally, they are not interested in creating solutions or compromises but, rather, only drama. The main reason is that they are unable to regulate their emotions and thus experience waves of intense feelings on a daily basis. After a lifetime of that, a normal level of feelings -- as you and your BF experience -- quickly becomes boring for them so they look for distractions and stimulation. There is nothing better than a good squabble. When you were a kid, you and your siblings were the same way. That's why your parents always had some coloring books in the back seat on long trips.

 

Well, BPDers are like that because they have the emotional development of a four year old. It is not their fault. It occurred partly due to heredity and partly due to a trauma in early childhood that forced them to rely so heavily on primitive emotional defenses to survive that they never let go of those child-like defenses.

The possibility of her having Borderline Personality Disorder is even scarier to think about!

Relax. The undeservedly negative stigma for BPDers was exacerbated by "Fatal Attraction," wherein Glenn Close fought to the death with Michael Douglas in a bathtub. Well, your BF's situation is much different. For one thing, he is not in the tub with Glenn Close. [Let's pause here for a minute -- to relish the imagery, the bubbles, the steam, the possibilities .....]

 

Where were we? Oh, yes, we finished "For one thing." For another, BPDers are not crazy. Glenn Close's character is not only a BPDer but also a psychotic woman. Granted, a high functioning BPDer -- as the young woman seems to be -- may go psychotic under great stress. But that is true for all of us.

 

I've met numerous high functioning BPDers and, as a group, they are warmer, more charming, and more affectionate than the rest of us. Indeed, they are more fun too. And many excel in a variety of professions -- becoming lawyers, nurses, doctors, and social workers. The illness undermines their personal relationships because of their fear of engulfment and abandonment.

 

Importantly, casual friends, work colleagues, and strangers usually do not trigger those fears. One reason is that there is no personal relationship that can be abandoned. Another is that there is no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. This is why you will see most BPDers treat complete strangers with kindness and generosity and then go home to abuse the very people who love them.

 

My exW, for example, often baked loaves of bread and then, while they were still warm, went through the building giving them to neighbors upstairs. She also has such an intensity and warmth of expression -- so childlike in nature -- that it immediately puts total strangers at ease, leaving them with the feeling -- after just 30 minutes -- that they have known her for months. This same woman, however, was verbally abusive to me and my foster son.

 

I mention all this, Taras, so you realize that your BF's mistake was not drawing away from her but, rather, drawing close to protect her. As long as he remains close, he has the power to suffocate and abandon her. He therefore poses two great threats to her and, for this reason, he is triggering those fears every week he keeps talking to her in his protective manner. (Did I remember to mention the bubbles and steam?)

My boyfriend [talks to her] because he is scared to stop because of her suicide threats.

It is very unlikely she intends to kill herself. BPDers like drama, not death. Granted, the suicide risk is much higher than normal with low functioning BPDers. Yet, because the woman you are describing seems high functioning, it is highly unlikely she wants to die even when she is depressed. However, what is VERY likely -- indeed, a certainty -- is that she is controlling your BF. BPDers are very controlling because they have such a strong fear of abandonment and because their childhoods were so totally out of control.

 

That said, I nonetheless understand your concern that she may harm herself. When my exW got into her worst tantrums, she sometimes would leave the apartment and go walking to a nearby bridge, knowing that I was following protectively a half-block behind. When I stopped following her to bridges, she started calling me from a payphone on the loading platform in the subway. So I could hear the train running by, she would wait until a train was approaching before picking up the phone. Then she would tell me she was going to jump in front of the next one and she would hang up. Of course, this intimidation and extortion continued only as long as I reacted to it, creating drama. So I stopped. And your BF should stop too.

I also find my boyfriend feels guilty for a lot she says and does because she makes him feel like it's his fault

No, she doesn't make him feel guilty. She cannot make him feel anything. He chooses to feel that way. As a man who made that same choice for 15 years with my BPD exW, I say this not to beat up on your BF but, rather, to empower him with the realization that he is in control. He is the glue that is holding together the toxic relationship he has with her.

 

Once he knows what he is doing wrong, he will realize he has the power to stop the pain at any time. It takes two willing people to sustain such a relationship for 8 months. And, when one of them is emotionally unstable, it is the other person (i.e., your BF) who holds all the power. It doesn't seem that way only because he abdicates that power every time he talks to her.

 

Significantly, the toxicity and harm is not something that SHE is doing to him. Instead, it is something THEY are doing to each other. Her contribution is so obvious: the abuse and stalking. His contribution -- because he is so kind-hearted -- is far harder to see. He is harming her by being an "enabler," i.e., by enabling her to continue throwing tantrums and behaving like a four year old without having to take responsibility for her own actions -- thus avoiding having to confront her illness. And if she has any other close friends, they likely are doing it too.

 

What you have, then, is an adult acting like a child while a few well-intended friends are coddling her, protecting her from the logical consequences of her outrageous behavior. Importantly, most people have strong personal boundaries and thus will not tolerate such disrespectful behavior. Not for 8 months. They leave, which is why untreated BPDers rarely have any long-term close friends.

 

Because her emotional development is stunted at a young age, she never learned the more mature defenses like "self soothing" which is needed to calm herself down. Although she is fully capable of learning to do that, she never will learn it as long as there is a willing supply of friends, like your BF, who will do it for her. Simply stated, you BF has become her "soothing object," providing the necessary calming so she does not have to learn it for herself.

 

The great irony is that, despite all his calming efforts, he likely has made her anxiety worse because his presence is triggering her fears, as I explained above. On top of all that, your BF is providing another unnecessary service: being a trash can for all the guilt and shame she wants to get rid of on a daily basis. That is, he's taking out the trash every time he talks to her on the phone. He should aspire for more. Being a soothing object and trash can are not lofty goals.

 

Because a BPDer does black-white thinking, she cannot tolerate the thought of making a mistake or having a flaw. She therefore wants someone around whom she can blame for every misfortune to rid herself of all feelings of shame and guilt. If you want an explanation of how the black-white thinking gives you major grief (as well as other BPDer traits), please check out my post in Slider's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3084031#post3084031.

 

As to your BF's good intentions, any man who has been tolerating such childish and abusive behavior for 8 months may have aspects of codependence in his personality. That is, he may be a caregiver to a fault, with the fault being his willingness to keep helping people even when it is to his great detriment to do so. Simply stated, the desire to be needed (for what he can do) likely far exceeds the desire to be loved (for the man he already is). If your BF has such codependence, mine puts his to shame. As a man who put up with an abusive woman for 15 years -- indeed, married her -- I could give him codependency lessons.

 

I was raised to be the little man of the household, the little "fixer." Typically, this happens when one parent is alcoholic or otherwise emotionally unavailable to the other parent, who then leans too heavily on their child for emotional support. The good news is that codependence is fairly easy to control once a person is aware of it, i.e., aware he is doing harm by enabling the continuation of her dysfunctional behavior, not being helpful as he thinks.

 

Perhaps I am mistaken about his codependence. If so, maybe you can think of another explanation for his failing to notice that, every time he pulls her from the raging seas, she turns around and jumps back in. And maybe you can explain why he cannot see that, every time he solves one problem (like the mattress debacle), she immediately creates another to replace it. Why is he unable to see -- what you clearly saw from the beginning -- that the woman is only interested in creating drama, not solutions? Does he really believe she is so stupid that she cannot understand a mattress should be returned to its rightful owner? Although BPDers have many problems, stupidity is not one of them. Her goal was to create drama, not to put the mattress to its highest use.

I had to fight her away from my boyfriend for a good month.

No, you didn't have to do it. You chose to do it. Now that you know what you're dealing with, I suggest that you give your BF a copy of this thread and then stay out of it. Trust him to be able to stay away from bathtubs and handle a four-year-old on his own.

[freestyle]

excellent, insightful post, Downtown.

 

when I read the OP, the first thing that came to my mind was BPD.

 

This is a woman who needs competent professional help--which is what your bf should say to her next time she pulls a suicide ruse--he should respond by telling her that he will call and have an ambulance sent to her house immediately, because he's not qualified to help her with that. I have a feeling that will call her bluff.

 

There are a lot of good articles online about disengaging from a personality disordered individual--I think it would be a good idea to do some reading.

[Downtown]

Thanks, Freestyle. The best article I've seen for disengaging is Article 9 at http://www.bpdfamily.com/tools/articles9.htm.

[taras18]

Yes, I understand he needs to end off all contact with her but the problem is, How? Like someone above said just blocking her wouldn't be a good idea...but then how should he end off contact? Because she acts like she dislikes him etc. but when it comes down to it I know for a fact if he ended up blocking her or deleting her she'd act childish and start up problems any way she possibly can. Such as before, her getting her older friends to call/text my cellphone harassing me but then denying she gave them my number. I know at that point I should of probably called the cops on her because it was harassing and i also know the times she threatened suicide I should of tried contacting someone for help for her but then again I think of the outcome of that...and how being her she would not thank for the help but start up more problems if I did call somewhere for help for her and drama is what i'm trying to get away from and my boyfriend. Calling the cops would just start up more problems wither it be her or her getting friends to again..

Should he slowly stop conversations with her? keep small talk and not get into a topic with her? such as, slowly backing away from her, "spacing out" and then her kind of moving on? instead of just flat out blocking and deleting her?

The thing is, you said she uses him as her "soothing object" but once he's gone wouldn't she just try getting him back?

I know she acts like she hates him but she doesn't, she IS doing it for the attention because she has an attachment to him because like you said he is trying to protect her from harm and she knows that and she comes to him when she has a problem and needs someone to vent on or needs advice.

Should I or one of her close ex best friends contact her mother? anyone? and if so, who?

I"M scared of the outcome of that though also, I don't want to have cops or anyone involved in my life due to someone I have never met. I just want her out of mine and my boyfriends life... But what is a "nice" way to end off contact? What should he do so that she won't act childish and start up more problems?

Edited November 7, 2010 by taras18

[taras18]

Well, BPDers are like that because they have the emotional development of a four year old. It is not their fault. It occurred partly due to heredity and partly due to a trauma in early childhood that forced them to rely so heavily on primitive emotional defenses to survive that they never let go of those child-like defenses

"it is not their fault" see but that's exactly how she sees it. She sees it how it's never her fault, it's just the way her disorder is and makes her..so she uses that as an excuse to act out. I know because i've experienced and witnessed her saying that. Her best friend of 18 years(They're both 20 years old) says she never acted out like this in till her teen years and even when she did it was never as bad as it is towards my boyfriend, her best friend was actually really shocked of the stuff we told her was going on, her BEST friend who she is really close with. Her father left when she was very young and she never makes an effort to see him now because she claims she hates him, I've personally asked her if her father has ever abused her in anyway and she said no, he just left when she was really young. Her friend thought it could of been possible she was sexually abused because of her sexual habits now, she is a sex addict also and has even admitted it. She loves sex and has sex with guys she barely knows or just meets. Now, with her boyfriend of 2 months she is experimenting sexual fetishes(So she tells my boyfriend) Dominating and roping and apparently age and role play. One thing I find quite odd is as soon as she is dating someone it seems she changes herself, she never had a sexual interest in dominatrix and even made fun of it before but now she is studying and actually doing it. Is sexual addictions also common with people who have BPD?

Where were we? Oh, yes, we finished "For one thing." For another, BPDers are not crazy.

I beg to differ...with her at least. I don't think anyone who can threaten killing themselves multiple times and then ignoring all phone calls and texts after doing so and going out and hanging out with friends while having people worry about you is "not" crazy..Anyone who can threaten killing themselves and then go on with the day acting like nothing they did was wrong is not sane and needs help. Threatening suicide is not something a right minded person would do, it's a serious thing and saying it for attention is just sickening and not right minded. I know people who are Bipolar and have personality disorders and never once did they use such a thing for attention.

Edited November 7, 2010 by taras18

[Downtown]

What is a "nice" way to end off contact? What should he do so that she won't act childish and start up more problems?

There is no nice way to end contact with an unstable person like a BPDer. It will only get worse, however, if your BF further delays it, allowing her to continue extorting attention from him by threatening suicide. One good sign is that, to your knowledge, she has never seriously attempted suicide. Another good sign is that she has another love interest (poor guy) to fall back on at the moment. A third good sign is that she is sufficiently high functioning, apparently, to be dating and working or attending school.

 

A fourth piece of good news is that, although BPDers experience very intense feelings, those feelings are shallow in the sense that they come and go. Moreover, once you break off contact, their feelings of attachment usually evaporate much faster than yours do because "out of sight, out of mind" works faster with them. Stated differently, they usually have difficulty with "object constancy," i.e., feeling they are an important part of your life when you are out of town or otherwise gone. Finally, keep in mind that you likely are not in as deep as you imagine. There are tens of millions of us who did not just have to stop talking to a BPDer but, rather, divorce one -- and we did it after they tried every known controlling technique, including threatening suicide repeatedly.

Like [spider] said, just blocking her wouldn't be a good idea...but then how should he end off contact?

Nobody advised you that blocking should not be used. As I understand it, Spider suggested trying a "rolling stop" wherein your BF would tell her to stop calling, giving her the dignity of receiving advance notice. Then, when she continues -- and she WILL continue -- Spider advises calling the police, which means he will have to block her calls at that point. Freestyle advised him to call her bluff by saying he "will call and have an ambulance sent to her house immediately, because he's not qualified to help her with that." Your BF therefore may want to try that advance-notice and bluff approach for a few days.

 

In my experience, however, a nasty hissy-fit from her is unavoidable. For one thing, your BF has been trying to let her down gently for 8 months, with no success. For another thing, no matter how elegant and gentle he is in leaving her, and no matter how well she takes it that day, it means absolutely nothing a few days or weeks later. With a BPDer, it is impossible to build up a lasting store of good will or appreciation because a new tide of intense feelings will sweep away what she is feeling today. Moreover, a BPDer can go from splitting him white (adoring him) to splitting him black (hating him) in ten seconds.

I know for a fact if he ended up blocking her or deleting her she'd act childish and start up problems any way she possibly can.

Of course. You saw how she had a temper tantrum over being asked to return a mattress. So there is no way to stop talking with her without her being in a rage. He may have to report her to the police so he can obtain a restraining order.

Such as before, her getting her older friends to call/text my cellphone harassing me but then denying she gave them my number.

Your BF should be so lucky as to only get a few harassing calls. The risk of continuing to see her is that, at some point, she may accuse him of brutalizing or molesting her and have him arrested. And she will be very persuasive when the police arrive because she likely will half-believe it when she tells it. My exW did that to me so that, during the short while I was in jail, she could obtain a restraining order barring me from my own home.

 

Remember, when a BPDer is splitting your BF black after she is rejected, she will perceive the two of you to be Hitler incarnate -- and will treat both of you accordingly. This is why I suggest that your BF immediately break contact to protect you and himself. The longer he delays, the more attached to him she is likely to become -- and heaven forbid that her new love interest walks away soon.

 

That said, I've never met her and your BF knows her well. If, in his judgment, he believes he should try the advanced-notice and bluff for a few more days, that seems fine. If it does work successfully, please give me first dibs at the book and movie rights. It will be a story the entire world should hear. Speaking of good movies, did I tell you about the bubbles and steam?

I also know the times she threatened suicide I should of tried contacting someone for help for her.

Given that she has threatened it numerous times without any follow through -- not even a pretense of taking pills or cutting her arms -- your BF's focus now should be on protecting you and himself from this woman. Significantly, you are a threat to her because he loves you and -- as soon as her BF leaves -- she will be fully reliant on your BF.

She would not thank for the help but start up more problems if I did call somewhere for help for her.

Yes, it is risky for that reason. As to her friends, the only person that likely would be receptive would be the best friend who says she has BPD. But you would be singing to the choir. So, if you know of a dire circumstance, you likely are much better off calling an ambulance or 911 to help her.

The thing is, you said she uses him as her "soothing object" but once he's gone wouldn't she just try getting him back?

Yes, she probably will try endlessly if you don't block her calls. What is needed is some tough love wherein she learns that friends enforce their personal boundaries when they are violated. This is what happens in the adult world. If she does not learn this, she has no incentive to grow up emotionally.

I know she acts like she hates him but she doesn't....

Actually, when she is splitting him black, she does hate him. Although a part of her mind still loves him, her conscious mind is not in touch with that part at all. This is why this distortion of perception is called "splitting." And this distorted thinking is why BPD traits are called a "thought disorder." Moreover, when I say she loves him, I mean "love" in the way that a four year old loves her father. It is not a mature love. To a child, love largely means "I desperately need you to love me."

Should I or one of her close ex best friends contact her mother?

Your BF should use his best judgment. Presumably, he knows the situation best. The risk, of course, is that she got the BPD traits from her mother. For the best online advice about leaving a BPDer, I suggest that you go to BPDfamily.com and read -- even join -- the "Leaving" message board. There, you will find dozens of people who, at this very moment, are leaving their BPDer partners and spouses. They provide an amazing variety of tips and warnings. But don't forget us here at Loveshack. We will keep trying to support you as long as you feel it is helpful.

[taras18]

The longer he delays, the more attached to him she is likely to become -- and heaven forbid that her new love interest walks away soon.

So do you think she still loves/likes him? and she's acting this way towards him because she does? She claims she doesn't have any feelings romantically towards him anymore and hasn't for months but then again right before she told him she liked him she acted like she didn't show an interest in him at all in till she told him out front she did like him. She has dated ac couple guys and had sex since she "loved" my boyfriend but do you think it's all to try and get over him? Do you think maybe she craves his attention and acts out this way because she still likes him and just doesn't want him guessing it or knowing it?

Whenever she is seeing a guy or dating a guy she treats my boyfriend badly or ignores him or talks to him less or attempts to making him jealous(or so it seems) by detailing the sex she had the night before etc.

And then when her relationship fails with the other guy she starts talking to my boyfriend more and being nicer?

Edited November 8, 2010 by taras18

[Downtown]

"it is not their fault" see but that's exactly how she sees it. She sees it how it's never her fault, it's just the way her disorder is and makes her..so she uses that as an excuse to act out.

You are right, of course. I was just trying to explain that BPDers have a pernicious illness that was imposed on them -- by genetics or abuse -- before they were five. Explaining its origins, however, has nothing to do with justifying their outrageous behavior 20 years later. A very few choose to seek therapy and change that behavior. Most, however, chose to continue pretending they are victims the rest of their lives. And because they are "victims," they need to surround themselves with "perpetrators," like your BF, on whom all misfortunes can be blamed.

Her best friend ... says she never acted out like this in till her teen years and even when she did it was never as bad as it is towards my boyfriend.

This is typical. For a high functioning BPDer, the traits usually do not show themselves strongly until around 16, when people start trying to date seriously. Even then, they can be difficult to spot because all people behave very immaturely at that age. This is why psychologists usually decline to diagnose BPD until a person is at least 18 -- unless it is very severe.

her best friend was actually really shocked of the stuff we told her was going on, her BEST friend who she is really close with.

You were fortunate that she believed you. When leaving a high functioning BPDer, the partner normally loses all of their mutual friends and all members of her family. In my case, I lost five step children, all of whom I dearly love and two of whom I had helped put through college. I also lost contact with five of my grandchildren.

 

What happens is that the BPDer spreads vicious lies about the partner to their friends and family. As I explained, the police and friends will believe everything she says because her BPD traits are rarely -- if ever -- seen by casual friends, business associates, and strangers. Moreover, because BPDers do not know who they are, they put on an act every day in an attempt to fit in and be loved, just like everyone else is. This is why some of the best actors have strong BPD traits. Of course, the family members usually know that the BPDer cannot be trusted but, if the spouse is a stepfather like me, they will choose to stay "loyal" to the sick parent who raised them.

One thing I find quite odd is as soon as she is dating someone it seems she changes herself.

Yes, that is typical too. Due to the childhood trauma, she was unable to develop a strong stable sense of who she is. Lacking a strong self image, she has no way of knowing today what she will even want to be doing two weeks from today. A BPDer therefore seeks out a partner whose strong personality will center her and ground her, giving her direction and purpose. This is one reason a BPDer hates to be alone. Another is that, when she is alone in a room, there is litterally nobody to keep her company -- not even her own self.

 

Hence, when a BPDer meets a love interest, she emulates his personality just as she does with others. Yet, because she is infatuated and wants to be loved, she pulls out all the stops and reflects all of his best personality features. Moreover, whatever he likes, she likes. Whoever he likes, she will enjoy too. That "mirroring" process is not done because she wants to manipulate him but, rather, because she doesn't know what else to do -- and because she wants to be loved just like everyone else. This process typically lasts up to six months, during which time the partner is convinced he has met his "soul mate."

Is sexual addictions also common with people who have BPD?

As I discussed, BPDers get bored easily and, because they lack good impulse control, they tend to explore risky behavior -- especially when they are young. They also tend to become very intensely involved with one type of behavior and, after a few months or years, switch to something entirely different -- always hoping to find happiness and figure out who they really are. This activity could as easily be religion or politics as it is sexual promiscuity. I would rather describe such behavior as "lack of impulse control," not "addictions" because the BPDer can forever lose interest in the activity in ten seconds. Not much of an addiction in my book.

Threatening suicide is not something a right minded person would do, it's a serious thing and saying it for attention is just sickening and not right minded.

You are correct. That is why BPD is considered an illness and is called a "thought disorder."

I know people who are Bipolar and have personality disorders and never once did they use such a thing for attention.

As I noted above in my first post, bipolar sufferers do not behave this way. So I agree with that. As to folks having one of the other nine PDs (personality disorders), a few such disorders (e.g., Histrionic PD and Antisocial PD) commonly give rise to suicide threats. Indeed, that can be true for all of them if they are sufficiently severe -- or, more accurately, the victim may simply commit suicide instead of threatening it.

I beg to differ.... anyone who can threaten killing themselves and then go on with the day acting like nothing they did was wrong is not sane.

Actually, they are. They are considered sane by psychologists, who define "insane" (i.e., "crazy") as losing touch with the physical world, e.g., thinking that the TV is speaking to her personally, the chair is floating, or that her nephew is Elvis. BPDers do not do that unless they are low-functioning and occasionally slip into psychosis. It is unusual. Because I had to have my bipolar foster son hospitalized eight times due to his psychotic behavior, I can tell you that there is a world of difference between "insane" and the controlling, desperate behavior your BF witnessed.

 

Despite her frantic, desperate pleading and threats, a high functioning BPDer usually has remarkable control when she chooses to exercise it. You will find out quick if you have to call the police during one of her "out-of-control" tantrums. By the time they arrive five minutes later, she will have transformed into a calm, soft-speaking "victim," saying she never felt better and describing your persecution and lies.

 

Although a BPDer's perception is distorted, the illness does not distort her perception of physical reality but, rather, only that of other people's intentions and motivations. Remember, the distortion arises from her twin fears of abandonment and intimacy. Significantly, TVs and other physical objects are never intimate and cannot abandon her. So she is just fine with TVs, radios, and chairs. Indeed, she likely is fine with strangers, work colleagues, and casual friends, as I explained.

 

Lord help them, however, if those people decide to draw closer to her like your BF did. Anyone who tries to love and help her is perceived as posing a great threat. Why then, you ask, would she ever want to be close to anyone, given how painful it must be to her? It is because she is even more miserable being alone, as I noted above. And why, you ask, won't a woman in that much pain follow your advice on seeking therapy? Well, there are several reasons but the most important is that, usually, she is incapable of trusting you or the therapist.

 

For 15 years, I spent a small fortune taking my exW to six different psychologists for weekly sessions -- all to no avail. I stood there on the shore watching her drown five feet away from me. I extended my arm, yelling "Honey, let me help you. Grab my hand." But she would not do so. Not because she was unable to hear my voice. Not because she was unable to see my hand. No, neither of those things. Rather, it was because she was unable to trust me. She mistakenly thought that I was trying to control her. This should give you some idea of how pernicious and tragic this illness is for the BPDer. It also is tragic for the partner who -- against every fiber of his being -- must find the strength to walk away from a sick loved one.

[Downtown]

So do you think she still loves/likes him? and she's acting this way towards him because she does? Do you think it's all to try and get over him? Do you think maybe she craves his attention and acts out this way because she still likes him and just doesn't want him guessing it or knowing it?

Sorry, Taras, I cannot answer those questions. You give me too much credit. I cannot tell you the exact motivations of this particular individual. What I did, starting with a number of behaviors YOU observed, was to explain that they form a well known behavioral pattern that psychologists call "BPD" traits. Then I explained how a "typical" person with strong traits acts so you and your BF will understand what is "likely" in store for you -- and what you "likely" are dealing with.

 

Of course, your BF's friend is an individual and thus may not exhibit typical behavior. Moreover, because many folks suffering from one PD also suffer from one or two others, the BPD traits may not explain all her behavior. On top of that, we don't know how severe her BPD traits are. Only a clinical diagnosis by a professional would produce that.

 

That said, your BF would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to recognize selfishness, emotional instability, suicide threats, verbal abuse, low self-esteem, sexual promiscuity, neediness, all-or-nothing thinking, anger issues, lack of impulse control, hatred of her father, and inability to trust. So, assuming your observations are correct, I urge the two of you to go NC with her as soon as possible to protect yourselves from further harassment.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Downtown

[taras18]

Okay well yesterday she signed on MSN after not talking to my boyfriend after the whole mattress and telling him to Shut the F*ck up. She had to get told to apologize to him from her friend that we also talk to. So, practically the apology mean't nothing. She wanted to not even sign on MSN at all because she was trying to avoid and ignore my boyfriend all together but her friend talked her into apologizing. My boyfriend explained to her that he's going to not make an effort to talk to her anymore. She didn't quite understand at first but he explained that she treats him badly and lately only goes to him when she wants or needs to talk to someone. Friendship has no limits...so if you're going to call yourself a friend than be one.. not only when it suits your time.

He let her know that he's backing off a bit. Her reply was "oh, well hopefully we talk later"

I hope this works, I really hope she doesn't turn around and cause drama and just accepts it because after 8 months of all of this I feel like i'm going crazy.

No one should be forced to apologize to someone, she should of known and instantly wanted to apologize to save the friendship but instead she tried avoiding him for 2 days because she "didn't want to deal with it right now" Like i've expressed, whenever she has a boyfriend her whole world is centered around him. Everything comes last..and that's sad. I'm sick of my boyfriend being a door mat she steps all over and uses to clean the dirt off. I'm sick of her and hopefully she sees the mature side and understands all shes caused. I can only hope...

[DreamerGirl27]

Taras, Kendrick nailed it at the beginning and all but one respondent agreed. The two of you should go No Contact with her and block the calls. If you cannot avoid her, you should act like the two most boring, confused people in the world, e.g., "Maybe you're right, I'm having trouble figuring things out now" and "I don't have time to worry about that now" and -- the 1980's classic, "Whatever." Hence, you should go NC if possible and, if not, disengage so as to avoid feeding her need for drama.BPDers (i.e., those with strong BPD traits) love drama. Generally, they are not interested in creating solutions or compromises but, rather, only drama. The main reason is that they are unable to regulate their emotions and thus experience waves of intense feelings on a daily basis. After a lifetime of that, a normal level of feelings -- as you and your BF experience -- quickly becomes boring for them so they look for distractions and stimulation. There is nothing better than a good squabble. When you were a kid, you and your siblings were the same way. That's why your parents always had some coloring books in the back seat on long trips.

 

Well, BPDers are like that because they have the emotional development of a four year old. It is not their fault. It occurred partly due to heredity and partly due to a trauma in early childhood that forced them to rely so heavily on primitive emotional defenses to survive that they never let go of those child-like defenses.Relax. The undeservedly negative stigma for BPDers was exacerbated by "Fatal Attraction," wherein Glenn Close fought to the death with Michael Douglas in a bathtub. Well, your BF's situation is much different. For one thing, he is not in the tub with Glenn Close. [Let's pause here for a minute -- to relish the imagery, the bubbles, the steam, the possibilities .....]

 

Where were we? Oh, yes, we finished "For one thing." For another, BPDers are not crazy. Glenn Close's character is not only a BPDer but also a psychotic woman. Granted, a high functioning BPDer -- as the young woman seems to be -- may go psychotic under great stress. But that is true for all of us.

 

I've met numerous high functioning BPDers and, as a group, they are warmer, more charming, and more affectionate than the rest of us. Indeed, they are more fun too. And many excel in a variety of professions -- becoming lawyers, nurses, doctors, and social workers. The illness undermines their personal relationships because of their fear of engulfment and abandonment.

 

Importantly, casual friends, work colleagues, and strangers usually do not trigger those fears. One reason is that there is no personal relationship that can be abandoned. Another is that there is no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. This is why you will see most BPDers treat complete strangers with kindness and generosity and then go home to abuse the very people who love them.

 

My exW, for example, often baked loaves of bread and then, while they were still warm, went through the building giving them to neighbors upstairs. She also has such an intensity and warmth of expression -- so childlike in nature -- that it immediately puts total strangers at ease, leaving them with the feeling -- after just 30 minutes -- that they have known her for months. This same woman, however, was verbally abusive to me and my foster son.

 

I mention all this, Taras, so you realize that your BF's mistake was not drawing away from her but, rather, drawing close to protect her. As long as he remains close, he has the power to suffocate and abandon her. He therefore poses two great threats to her and, for this reason, he is triggering those fears every week he keeps talking to her in his protective manner. (Did I remember to mention the bubbles and steam?)It is very unlikely she intends to kill herself. BPDers like drama, not death. Granted, the suicide risk is much higher than normal with low functioning BPDers. Yet, because the woman you are describing seems high functioning, it is highly unlikely she wants to die even when she is depressed. However, what is VERY likely -- indeed, a certainty -- is that she is controlling your BF. BPDers are very controlling because they have such a strong fear of abandonment and because their childhoods were so totally out of control.

 

That said, I nonetheless understand your concern that she may harm herself. When my exW got into her worst tantrums, she sometimes would leave the apartment and go walking to a nearby bridge, knowing that I was following protectively a half-block behind. When I stopped following her to bridges, she started calling me from a payphone on the loading platform in the subway. So I could hear the train running by, she would wait until a train was approaching before picking up the phone. Then she would tell me she was going to jump in front of the next one and she would hang up. Of course, this intimidation and extortion continued only as long as I reacted to it, creating drama. So I stopped. And your BF should stop too.No, she doesn't make him feel guilty. She cannot make him feel anything. He chooses to feel that way. As a man who made that same choice for 15 years with my BPD exW, I say this not to beat up on your BF but, rather, to empower him with the realization that he is in control. He is the glue that is holding together the toxic relationship he has with her.

 

Once he knows what he is doing wrong, he will realize he has the power to stop the pain at any time. It takes two willing people to sustain such a relationship for 8 months. And, when one of them is emotionally unstable, it is the other person (i.e., your BF) who holds all the power. It doesn't seem that way only because he abdicates that power every time he talks to her.

 

Significantly, the toxicity and harm is not something that SHE is doing to him. Instead, it is something THEY are doing to each other. Her contribution is so obvious: the abuse and stalking. His contribution -- because he is so kind-hearted -- is far harder to see. He is harming her by being an "enabler," i.e., by enabling her to continue throwing tantrums and behaving like a four year old without having to take responsibility for her own actions -- thus avoiding having to confront her illness. And if she has any other close friends, they likely are doing it too.

 

What you have, then, is an adult acting like a child while a few well-intended friends are coddling her, protecting her from the logical consequences of her outrageous behavior. Importantly, most people have strong personal boundaries and thus will not tolerate such disrespectful behavior. Not for 8 months. They leave, which is why untreated BPDers rarely have any long-term close friends.

 

Because her emotional development is stunted at a young age, she never learned the more mature defenses like "self soothing" which is needed to calm herself down. Although she is fully capable of learning to do that, she never will learn it as long as there is a willing supply of friends, like your BF, who will do it for her. Simply stated, you BF has become her "soothing object," providing the necessary calming so she does not have to learn it for herself.

 

The great irony is that, despite all his calming efforts, he likely has made her anxiety worse because his presence is triggering her fears, as I explained above. On top of all that, your BF is providing another unnecessary service: being a trash can for all the guilt and shame she wants to get rid of on a daily basis. That is, he's taking out the trash every time he talks to her on the phone. He should aspire for more. Being a soothing object and trash can are not lofty goals.

 

Because a BPDer does black-white thinking, she cannot tolerate the thought of making a mistake or having a flaw. She therefore wants someone around whom she can blame for every misfortune to rid herself of all feelings of shame and guilt. If you want an explanation of how the black-white thinking gives you major grief (as well as other BPDer traits), please check out my post in Slider's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3084031#post3084031.

 

As to your BF's good intentions, any man who has been tolerating such childish and abusive behavior for 8 months may have aspects of codependence in his personality. That is, he may be a caregiver to a fault, with the fault being his willingness to keep helping people even when it is to his great detriment to do so. Simply stated, the desire to be needed (for what he can do) likely far exceeds the desire to be loved (for the man he already is). If your BF has such codependence, mine puts his to shame. As a man who put up with an abusive woman for 15 years -- indeed, married her -- I could give him codependency lessons.

 

I was raised to be the little man of the household, the little "fixer." Typically, this happens when one parent is alcoholic or otherwise emotionally unavailable to the other parent, who then leans too heavily on their child for emotional support. The good news is that codependence is fairly easy to control once a person is aware of it, i.e., aware he is doing harm by enabling the continuation of her dysfunctional behavior, not being helpful as he thinks.

 

Perhaps I am mistaken about his codependence. If so, maybe you can think of another explanation for his failing to notice that, every time he pulls her from the raging seas, she turns around and jumps back in. And maybe you can explain why he cannot see that, every time he solves one problem (like the mattress debacle), she immediately creates another to replace it. Why is he unable to see -- what you clearly saw from the beginning -- that the woman is only interested in creating drama, not solutions? Does he really believe she is so stupid that she cannot understand a mattress should be returned to its rightful owner? Although BPDers have many problems, stupidity is not one of them. Her goal was to create drama, not to put the mattress to its highest use.No, you didn't have to do it. You chose to do it. Now that you know what you're dealing with, I suggest that you give your BF a copy of this thread and then stay out of it. Trust him to be able to stay away from bathtubs and handle a four-year-old on his own.

 

Beautifully written Downtown.

[Downtown]

DreamerGirl, thanks for the kind words. I hope things are being resolved, one way or the other, with you and your crush -- whom you wrote so much about last August. He's been such a mystery, sending so many mixed signals, e.g., the "guys' night out" with that other girl he invited. Take care.

[taras18]

Okay well an update..

My boyfriend told her the next time she saw her psychiatrist to mention "Borderline Personality Disorder" and the Splitting from black and white. She saw her psychiatrist today and her psychiatrist didn't say much about it to her I guess. She's in denial it seems, it seems she doesn't want to think it's possible she is misdiagnosed and has Borderline. My boyfriend sent her a video of a girl struggling with Borderline Personality who sounded and explained what fit her the most

and even a link to a book on Amazon called "I hate you, Don't leave me: Understanding the Borderline Personality" http://www.amazon.com/Hate-You-Dont-Leave-Understanding/dp/0380713055

She couldn't of seem less interested, her replies her "Do I have to watch it?" "I'm tired of thinking about it today.." She just seemed really uninterested like she could careless and sort of irritated.

Finally, she watched the video and her reply about the splitting black and white was "you know this only happens with you" and my boyfriend said "Your ex best friend says it happened with her too" then her reply was "with you its more black and white. everyone else seems like different shades of gray"

So I or him don't exactly know what she mean't by that..? because after her best friend told her she couldn't be friends with her anymore due to the compulsive lying and treating her badly she dropped her like she was nothing and like the past 18 years were nothing at all to her..like it didn't really faze her much at all. She didn't try to fix the friendship she just left it.

I personally think it's denial and delusional of how she treats people close to her, i dont know how she can't see it...she treats her mother horrible, her best friends horrible, anyone close to her horrible!

It really seems like she does not have a care in the world of how she is. You can't help someone who isn't willing to help themselves I guess...but, for herself and the people around her she NEEDS help asap!

Edited November 9, 2010 by taras18

[taras18]

Also Downtown, I got a bit more info from her ex best friend about her out socially with casual people and such and apparently she is rude and disrespectful to everyone, not just people close to her..

for Example, she is rude to waiters, and hostesses. like she will be like "can we sit here?" "oh yeah so i ordered a grilled cheese on brown not white", "my diet coke tastes off, i think your machine is broken". She also always comments on the waiters appearence like ripping it apart.

"i want change in fives not a ten"

"why is it taking so long for my food to come..my order was very simple"

Constantly putting people down such as appearance, being over weight, under weight, having a dark tan, being pale, having acne....just about everything.

She is racist, I've witnessed personally. She makes racist comments about anyone who isn't white.

[EnigmasMuse]

Your b/f can not fix her, and really doesn't need to tell her to ask her counselor about BPD, if anything this will only make her more angry. He needs to not talk to her at all, period. Backing off is probably not going to work. He will have to go cold turkey with her. Also, he is not responsbile, nor is anyone, for whatever she may or not do. He needs to stop being an enabler, he is just reinforcing her behavior.