Wife went to Las Vegas then lied to me.

[InternationalPlayboy]

I may be wrong but if it was me i'd go for a keylogger.

 

This is for Bugleman - honestly, would you want someone discreetly installing KeyLogger on your computer and not telling you? If not, then don't do it to hers.

 

I have nothing significant to hide on my lap top - Okay some porn, perhaps some odd Google searches - but no serious offenses. But for the sheer invasion of privacy I'd be like FUUUUUCKKKKK YOU to my spouse or significant other if I learned she installed a KeyLogger. I'd rather just be accused point blank of an affair.

 

Just my two cents.

[InternationalPlayboy]

No, nor would I pay for his dental bill if he has a toothache, goes to the dentist, and is told everything is fine.

 

But you and others are advising him to go through a potentially painful root canal simply to see if he brushes and flosses regularly. Like Carhill said - one step at a time.

[Buglemn]

Been thinking about all of this and listening to all of the advice, I think I will talk to her tonight, use some info from the thread. Maybe 2 of us will go out. Think I will simply ask her if she completely trusts me, which I know that she does, because I've never done anything to cause her not to other than few strip clubs in my younger yrs and a little porn to get my batteries charged, not that she can't, but she doesn't wear lingerie every week. Most of the time that I get to see her, she will have just come in from a run. She even looks good all hot and sweatty. Just see where the conversation will go from there. She will ask why and I will tell her that I have lost trust from the LIE and see what she says. Rather the conv. will continue or not will all be up to her. Haven't decided whether to bring u guys into it or not. Talk as u r a friend that I have confided in thats provided opinions and thoughts. Not really a lie is it.

 

My opinion on being faithful has always been "you can look but don't touch", seems to have always gotten me out of bad situations. I've never paid for a $50 table dance because I've seen one. I guess I have always thought, If I'm doing something that if I looked up and saw my wife watching and it freaked me out, It would be cheating. Think I will start new thread and post the question. What is cheating. By the way my wife always knew when I went to a strip club, She does the bills and see where my card has been. She was not thrilled with me going but understood. And it sure was not something that I did regularly, Bparties, Old College freind reunion. etc. Never hid it from her.

[goingstrong]

Bm, I would not bring up this website in you conversation with her. She will get defensive.

[Bec_downunder]

FYI, my man goes away on business almost every week and I don't get the flight and hotel details and I don't think anything of it. He has a mobile if I need him. And yes, sometimes when I call him, he doesn't answer and vice versa. I/he may be in a meeting, in the shower, driving, on the phone to someone else etc. This COULD all be completely innocent. Don't make assumptions till you have more evidence.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

FYI, my man goes away on business almost every week and I don't get the flight and hotel details and I don't think anything of it. He has a mobile if I need him. And yes, sometimes when I call him, he doesn't answer and vice versa. I/he may be in a meeting, in the shower, driving, on the phone to someone else etc. This COULD all be completely innocent. Don't make assumptions till you have more evidence.

 

Not a girls weekend away.... No kids involved either I bet? Nor married and together 22 years..... Completely different......

[carhill]

Couples are different about stuff like travel. My exW and I always kept each other up to date on itineraries since we traveled independently a lot. It can shorten the time waiting at the airport to get picked up Some other couples we know are like 'whatever'. They don't care.

 

Sounds like the OP was more cognizant of change rather than omission.

 

No one factor is conclusive but they all add up to something, as of yet unknown. Hope the 'date' this weekend goes well

[Bec_downunder]

Not a girls weekend away.... No kids involved either I bet? Nor married and together 22 years..... Completely different......

 

He has 2 kids (I'm like a mother to them) and we've lived together for nearly 3 years. No, we don't have a piece of paper, we are building a house together. Yes, not EXACTLY the same situation. I'm just worried that ppl are trying to convince him that his wife IS having an affair and the guy is now more paranoid about it than in his original post. There may be explanations for these things. Yes, she shouldn't have lied, yes it sounds a bit sus, but the evidence is weak. He said that he's had no reason not to trust her in the past. If i went on a girl's weekend away, I would leave the details if he wanted them, but I could easily forget to leave them. We travel a lot and niether of us have ever needed to contact the hotel. We always have our mobiles if we need to speak. I'm just trying to give another perspective.

[Mary3]

Bugle : Did you say in one of your earlier posts that all the wives gave their husbands flight information BUT yours did not give it to you ?

 

Another poster said that alot of us have been cheated on or cheated . I have experienced neither .

 

Just for the record. Cheating is pathetic and cowardly. I don't believe in it. If you want to cheat , leave your spouse , divorce them and be with that other person.

[Buglemn]

Well, I sat down waiting for her to get home and very carefully thought about all of my concerns and weighed them. Thought about all of the advice drawn conclusions that I picked up from this website. I very tactfully explained that I was having serious trust issues with her. I told her "please do not lie to me" then 1 by 1 brought up each individual mistrust not calling, no info, clothes, the lie, the pics, and she addressed each one. Thankyou God, it was just all paranoia, the main issue 'she forgot with her busy schedule to call me back, and she thought that we both would return home the same day. She had been in contact with both boys while gone, didn't think I would need hotel info, since we would be getting home around the same time. She felt real bad how her simple lie caused me so much stress. Then I let her have a turn and explain tome that I am not perfect and due to some of my medical problems she feels like she walks on eggshells . I told her that I would try to help out around the house more and we both would try to make more time for us. I did ask her what her def. of cheating was and it matched mine to a T. Thankyou for all of your advice and allowing me to vent. The comment 'I am making a mountain out of a molehill' hit it right on the nose.

[carhill]

Great. So, what actions have you both agreed upon to build more intimacy and trust? You mentioned you would help out more around the house. That's a great act of service. Kudos. It also doesn't address her walking on eggshells or your trust issues. What specific actions did she agree to performing to build greater intimacy and trust?

 

The important thing here, and with any relationship conversation, is supporting the words with future *actions*. Otherwise, it's just carbon dioxide. Enjoy the date tonight (you did make a date, right?) and watch those actions and be proactive in your own actions.

[TheMENemy]

Well, I sat down waiting for her to get home and very carefully thought about all of my concerns and weighed them. Thought about all of the advice drawn conclusions that I picked up from this website. I very tactfully explained that I was having serious trust issues with her. I told her "please do not lie to me" then 1 by 1 brought up each individual mistrust not calling, no info, clothes, the lie, the pics, and she addressed each one.

 

This is precisely the wrong strategy if you're after the truth in this situation. If she's a cheater, then she's a liar, and you just tipped your hand. All you did was give her a chance to lie some more, and gas light you.

 

"Please do not lie to me." Wow. How is that any different from having said: "Please do lie to me"?

 

(Think about what I just said, for a minute.)

 

Also, this is not really about your "trust issues." It is about her behavior.

 

 

Thankyou God, it was just all paranoia

 

If you left this conversation thinking that you were "paranoid" then most definitely your wife was and is gaslighting you, making you think you're paranoid, making you think you're crazy. (Like the movie, "Gaslight," that's where the expression comes from.)

 

Best case scenario, maybe she wasn't cheating (yeah right), but she still has PLENTY to answer for. Your concerns were completely justified.

 

 

, the main issue 'she forgot with her busy schedule to call me back,

 

That's clearly unbelievable. And irrelevant. You're her husband. The issue is why she isn't prioritizing her husband and marriage sufficiently to "remember" to keep you in the loop.

 

What she told you--"I forgot"--is what a child says when they don't do something they're supposed to.

 

 

 

and she thought that we both would return home the same day.

 

What does that have to do with calling you and touching base?

 

You see? She gave you two alternative explanations for not calling, which are actually inconsistent. That's precisely what liars do.

 

Let me break it down a little more precisely for you.

 

Excuse No. 1-"I forgot".

 

Excuse No. 2--"I didn't actually forget, I thought it was not necessary as we expected we would both return home the same day."

 

How can she simultaneously "forget" to call you, because she's "busy"; yet simultaneously deliberately decide NOT to call you, because she doesn't think it's necessary?

 

These two answers are inconsistent. Fatally. That means she's lying to you.

 

You don't need any further "factual" information. I know she's lying to you because the two explanations she gave you are logically inconsistent.

 

There is no possible real world universe where a person can simultaneously not do something 1) because they "forgot" to do it; yet 2) also because they remembered it but decided it wasn't necessary.

 

That would require simultaneously forgetting and remembering the same obligation.

 

 

She had been in contact with both boys while gone, didn't think I would need hotel info, since we would be getting home around the same time.

 

Excuses 3 and 4. (It gets better and better doesn't it?)

 

Excuse 3: "I don't need to contact you since I've contacted the boys." [Not the same as "forgetting," is it?]

 

Excuse 4: She didn't think you would "need" the hotel info since you'd be getting home at the same time.

 

 

 

She felt real bad how her simple lie caused me so much stress.

 

This is pure psychological manipulation/guilt-tripping on her part. "You're making me feel bad by calling me on my lying." Who cares that she feels "real bad"? She didn't feel "bad" enough not to lie to you in the first place.

 

Also--if any of her 3, 4 or however many "excuses" were legit, THEN WHY LIE ABOUT IT at all?

 

Calling it a "simple" lie is minimizing her behavior. A classic telltale cheater's tactic.

 

 

 

Then I let her have a turn and explain tome that I am not perfect and due to some of my medical problems she feels like she walks on eggshells .

 

Another classic cheater's tactic, "blame shifting." Yes you may have deficiencies as a husband--but these did not cause her to lie to you.

 

 

I told her that I would try to help out around the house more and we both would try to make more time for us.

 

Wow she's really turned the tables on you. Now she gets rewarded for lying to you and most likely cheating on you.

 

 

I did ask her what her def. of cheating was and it matched mine to a T. Thankyou for all of your advice and allowing me to vent. The comment 'I am making a mountain out of a molehill' hit it right on the nose.

 

 

Why did she take several hundred dollars from someone else's husband? I guess you never discussed that at all, right?

 

 

Listen if you're happy enough turning a blind eye to what your wife is doing that's fine, but please don't be surprised if one day she just walks out on you.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Great. So, what actions have you both agreed upon to build more intimacy and trust? You mentioned you would help out more around the house. That's a great act of service. Kudos. It also doesn't address her walking on eggshells or your trust issues. What specific actions did she agree to performing to build greater intimacy and trust?

 

The important thing here, and with any relationship conversation, is supporting the words with future *actions*. Otherwise, it's just carbon dioxide. Enjoy the date tonight (you did make a date, right?) and watch those actions and be proactive in your own actions.

 

OP - please do yourself and your marriage a favor and listen to Carhill and other people here who want you to work on your relationship, your trust issues, and behavior that both you and your wife can use to help things between you improve.

 

As I said before, there are some people who are here on LS to look for weakness and pain, and try to exacerbate it. Pathetic and hard to believe, but true. Please, if you recognize them, put them on "ignore."

[lkjh]

I kind of agree with theMenemy. If it was one small lie than I could understand believing her, but several?

[TheMENemy]

OP - please do yourself and your marriage a favor and listen to Carhill and other people here who want you to work on your relationship, your trust issues, and behavior that both you and your wife can use to help things between you improve.

 

 

 

I agree that Carhill provides very thoughtful advice and you can't go far wrong paying careful attention to whatever he says about something.

 

Still, I've never read anything from Carhill to suggest that someone should tolerate a cheating spouse.

 

 

 

As I said before, there are some people who are here on LS to look for weakness and pain, and try to exacerbate it.

 

Unfortunately I have to agree with this statement. One of the rather insidious things that some posters seem to try to do is persuade people to act in ways which are not in their best interests, by telling them things that they want to hear, but which ultimately are not for the best, and will lead to greater pain. I think the theory is "misery loves company."

 

 

Pathetic and hard to believe, but true. Please, if you recognize them, put them on "ignore."

 

It's easy to recognize them.

 

Is anyone telling you to ignore your concerns and sweep them under the rug? Beware that kind of advice.

[FanFan]

You tipped her off. One word for you now: Keylogger.

[TheMENemy]

I kind of agree with theMenemy. If it was one small lie than I could understand believing her, but several?

 

 

It's not just the lies, it's the entire situation of course, it's lies, but in a particular context.

 

To me, perhaps the most glaring issue that's evidently been swept under the rug entirely, is the OP's wife's friend's husband giving her quite a bit of money. There are at least a couple of things to wonder about:

 

1. Why was this even necessary? It may be an excuse for not providing OP with receipts, etc. so he can track where she really was, what she was doing, who with, etc. If everything was put on her own credit card that might provide information that would bust her story. If she's just spending cash from someone else, or he's been putting it on his card, there's no access to verification. Very strange.

 

2. What kind of man is spending those kinds of dollars on a woman with no expectation of something in return? This is several hundred dollars, at least; it wasn't a loan as far as we can tell; it was completely unnecessary; and it strikes me as obviously inappropriate.

 

3. Why is OP's wife's friend's husband even involved in this Vegas trip at all? Was he there with the women? I thought it was "girls only"? If OP's wife needed some cash why wouldn't OP's friend give it to OP's wife? If these people are taking trips to Vegas they're obviously not tapped out, they've got cash; they've got plastic. C'mon now, is anyone including OP going to tell me OP's wife doesn't have plenty of her own plastic?

 

4. There was nothing at all about going shopping; going to any shows; or any gambling. If there's such a thing as an "innocuous" "girls only" trip to Vegas it involves that kind of thing--going out to restaurants; shopping; hitting the slots or whatever. So OF COURSE OP's wife would want to have her plastic available. But nothing except going out with some male strippers.

 

So what exactly were these women doing in Vegas? If not "looking for trouble"?

[Mary3]

Well, I sat down waiting for her to get home and very carefully thought about all of my concerns and weighed them. Thought about all of the advice drawn conclusions that I picked up from this website. I very tactfully explained that I was having serious trust issues with her. I told her "please do not lie to me" then 1 by 1 brought up each individual mistrust not calling, no info, clothes, the lie, the pics, and she addressed each one. Thankyou God, it was just all paranoia, the main issue 'she forgot with her busy schedule to call me back, and she thought that we both would return home the same day. She had been in contact with both boys while gone, didn't think I would need hotel info, since we would be getting home around the same time. She felt real bad how her simple lie caused me so much stress. Then I let her have a turn and explain tome that I am not perfect and due to some of my medical problems she feels like she walks on eggshells . I told her that I would try to help out around the house more and we both would try to make more time for us. I did ask her what her def. of cheating was and it matched mine to a T. Thankyou for all of your advice and allowing me to vent. The comment 'I am making a mountain out of a molehill' hit it right on the nose.

 

Now that's LOVE Glad you were able to get your answers and you are working on a great marriage !

[Buglemn]

I really appreciate all of your concerns. Let me clarify that the man who gave my wife money is wealthy and gave each of the GFs the same amount. In fact he sent all 4 on the trip and covered all expenses. We discussed the effect of the lies on me and how much mistrust was put on my shoulders. She main said and felt bad that She had thought the issues I had on her trip were settled after our talk the third day after she got home. She did not want me to dig it up again and assumed a lie would table it. She said that when I get angry I don't talk to her for a few days and that drives her crazy. She can get mad, and get over it in a few minutes, however it takes me at least 2 days. I never talk when I am upset because I am always afraid that I will say something that I will regret. Better to keep my mouth shut. I can have very sharp tongue at times. I know her very well and think she was truly honest with our last talk. For her to have cheated would so be out of her character, but I do know that anything is possible. I have thought a lot about Hysterical Bonding (RED FLAG) and honestlly think it had to do with being away from each other for over 2 weeks, combine make up sex with me initiating it more often and there you go. I definitely think that we have comunication issues in our marriage that need major work, and we need to put each other ahead of our separate interests and friends. We talked about her next break instead of her going shopping with her friends, we will take a short cruise or hit a bed and breakfast. I think it was just one of those rare moments in time when maybe I had a little jealousy, several unusual factors, timing, all hit together at the same time and her bad decision to lie at the wrong time. Like many said any one issue is nothing its just when you put then all together I twisted off needing advice. Thank you all again for your concern and support. I will keep updates.

[TheMENemy]

Sounds like a wealthy man, with an agenda of some kind. Maybe his wife caught him cheating and the payback was that he had to pay for her and her friends (including your wife) to all go to Vegas, where they get to do "whatever" they wanted to.

 

But there is something very positive that YOU can do, and you don't need your wife's permission to do it, either.

 

You call up "wealthy guy", find out how much he paid for your wife's trip, and I mean ALL of it, every penny, and you immediately cut him a check to reimburse him that entire amount.

 

AND you also demand RECEIPTS for everything.

 

If you let another man pay for your wife to cheat on you, whether that's just flirting around with dancers, or more--then you're not really a man, are you?

 

If your wife thinks it's OK to accept money from another man to take a vacation like that, even if there really is nothing between them, then it means she has zero respect for you. If you let him pay for your wife, then it means you acknowledge that.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

That is an interesting question....... Maybe as a present a girls weekend away..... Sure.... But spending money???? I think that is over the line... TheMENemy maybe pushing it but I think the other guy went too far with his largesse.....

[Mary3]

A few have mentioned hysterical bonding and I wondered what it was..

 

Seems like its short lived though...tops is 2 weeks....

 

Does anyone have a good explanation for what it is ?

 

From what I can gather , after you cheat on your spouse , you want to **** him daily ??

[2sunny]

i can see that you believe her - mainly because you want to and need to believe her.

 

i can understand why. just wanted to say that if you were playing poker - what you did is the same as showing your hand. then she was able to manipulate the situation to her benefit - even getting you to do more around the house.

 

ok, so now she gets rewarded for bad behavior.

 

i think it sounds very backwards (for you) and very beneficial for her.

 

i only caution you - be very careful. you tend to want to believe her more than you should. trust is earned... and she did nothing to earn it back once she had suspicious and shady incidences from this trip. she may have been trustworthy and predictable in the past - but you were the one who said her behavior and choice of how to dress along with the cover up and lies- that definitely means something= and it's something she wasn't willing to admit... so now you've rewarded her when she had NO consequences and no reason to change anything to better the marriage.

 

SHE did this - not you. why are YOU doing more housework? why are you giving more when it appears she just got completely off the hook at your (and the M) expense?

 

she was counting on you taking the timid approach - which you did- and now you lost your opportunity to know more about the M and to grow from this experience.

 

opportunity lost from you not having a voice and speaking your truth.

[Buglemn]

It is strange for me to see how you guy's care for me & helped me in a difficult time. Thankyou. We talked again last night. She said "You stilll haven't forgiven me? " I told her that I had but needed to talk more in order to start rebuilding trust. She got a little defensive then I said You are the one who lied. She agreed. She asked "Do you really think that if I cheated on you I could keep from breaking down and coming clean?" . I said No. She has a soft heart, she swore to me again that she didn't geven get drunk. She said "It just hurts too bad.". She said only thing she did that she was ashamed of is to watch Tdown under show. I told her we would talk some more later & went to sleep.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

It is strange for me to see how you guy's care for me & helped me in a difficult time. Thankyou. We talked again last night. She said "You stilll haven't forgiven me? " I told her that I had but needed to talk more in order to start rebuilding trust. She got a little defensive then I said You are the one who lied. She agreed. She asked "Do you really think that if I cheated on you I could keep from breaking down and coming clean?" . I said No. She has a soft heart, she swore to me again that she didn't geven get drunk. She said "It just hurts too bad.". She said only thing she did that she was ashamed of is to watch Tdown under show. I told her we would talk some more later & went to sleep.

 

Enjoy a happy marriage, try and be the best person you can be..... As said, you two have some weird ideas of what is normal (i.e. the lack of talk, hotel/flight info, 3-4 day gap in when she thought you'd be home, what she felt she had to hide.....).

 

The joke/tag and it may truly may be appropo is that "What Happens in Vegas, Stays in Vegas".....

 

Let it drop, but be more open this point forward.