my partner has left me for another guy: what are the chances that will it work out?

[melenkurion]

I think I am having a bit of a setback today after doing quite well.

 

I went for a drink with some mutual friends last night. It's perhaps not the best idea, but these guys are my friends too. Heck, I know one of them better than he does. I didn't talk about my ex at all, I simply don't want to know anything about his Wonderful New Life.

 

One guy brought up that he was rather worried about my ex: he had asked him out of the blue what he thought of Satanic Magic. Ex was always rather interested in LaVeyan Satanism: it's not worshipping the devil, it's worshipping the carnal part of yourself. I always thought that was a bit of a red flag. He used to occasionally say that he was his own god. He used to think I was unhappy with it because I didn't understand it ("it's not worshipping Demons you know", he said). In fact, I understood it all too well. Why should I feel comfortable about someone who claims to love me following the tenets of a religion that venerates the self above all else? I'd always come second to that one great love affair.

 

Anyway... My ex said recently to his friend that he wasn't psychologically ready for the magic before, but that he was ready now. It disturbs me a lot. I imagine it is most likely that he is trying to achieve money or success from this, but there is the possibility he is trying to curse an enemy (me?). Personally, I don't believe in it at all, but it really managed to upset me. It kind of brought home to me how much of a narcissist my ex must be, to be attracted to this religion of worshipping the self. I really do feel so much better off out of all that mess. I can't quite believe I married someone so selfish. Also, it just seems bizarre to me that if he wants to better himself, his first thoughts are magic, rather than, I dunno, a training course or whatever.

 

I suppose this means I need to steer clear of mutual friends who are still in touch with him (which is not many of them...). Which seems a shame. I'm not sure they'd bring him up again, however. I think it was out of genuine concern for my ex.

[Fern]

I think I am having a bit of a setback today after doing quite well.

 

I went for a drink with some mutual friends last night. It's perhaps not the best idea, but these guys are my friends too. Heck, I know one of them better than he does. I didn't talk about my ex at all, I simply don't want to know anything about his Wonderful New Life.

 

One guy brought up that he was rather worried about my ex: he had asked him out of the blue what he thought of Satanic Magic. Ex was always rather interested in LaVeyan Satanism: it's not worshipping the devil, it's worshipping the carnal part of yourself. I always thought that was a bit of a red flag. He used to occasionally say that he was his own god. He used to think I was unhappy with it because I didn't understand it ("it's not worshipping Demons you know", he said). In fact, I understood it all too well. Why should I feel comfortable about someone who claims to love me following the tenets of a religion that venerates the self above all else? I'd always come second to that one great love affair.

 

Anyway... My ex said recently to his friend that he wasn't psychologically ready for the magic before, but that he was ready now. It disturbs me a lot. I imagine it is most likely that he is trying to achieve money or success from this, but there is the possibility he is trying to curse an enemy (me?). Personally, I don't believe in it at all, but it really managed to upset me. It kind of brought home to me how much of a narcissist my ex must be, to be attracted to this religion of worshipping the self. I really do feel so much better off out of all that mess. I can't quite believe I married someone so selfish. Also, it just seems bizarre to me that if he wants to better himself, his first thoughts are magic, rather than, I dunno, a training course or whatever.

 

I suppose this means I need to steer clear of mutual friends who are still in touch with him (which is not many of them...). Which seems a shame. I'm not sure they'd bring him up again, however. I think it was out of genuine concern for my ex.

 

Hi Melen! I've been wondering how you're doing. It's good to hear your progress. I'm glad you've been doing better. Don't stress too much about the setback - I've had any number of them just from bumping into him at the bank. As long as you're not actively seeking out engagement with him, they last only a few days at the MOST and they get progressively easier to handle.

From what you say, your ex sounds like he has lost his friggin' mind. Good grief. Is this new guy some sort of sap that he's going along with this nonsense? Just content yourself with the thought that if the ex is falling back on this sort of crap then his new life obviously isn't living up to or fulfilling all of his expectations.

 

I think the rot has started to set in with my own ex and his new girl. Every time I've bumped into him recently he's tried to initiate friendly chats and act like he's concerned for my wellbeing - (I left a bar recently because he'd just arrived with his new girl and he followed me out to my car so he could BABBLE at me for 5 minutes about how bad the roads were - I mean WTF?). I've been polite, but cold and gotten out of there ASAP every time. And last week he deleted his Facebook account completely. I have him blocked on FB (it was a mutual friend who told me), so it had nothing to do with me - it was obviously to do with something else in his life. I know it doesn't sound like a big deal, but it isn't the action of someone who's so happily wrapped up in a new romance that nothing else matters. And that helps me to realise that his 'amazing new life' is probably nowhere near as amazing as I imagine at my low points. And possibly quite a lot worse than I think.

 

I feel a lot of affinity with you Melen - I suspect that you and I are quite a LOT better than our exes. I suspect we could always have done better but we're good people who tried to make it work. I have this deep-seated conviction that my ex and yours are going to come CRAWLING back in a few months. And by that point you and I aren't going to want to know.

I was the best thing that EVER happened to that idiot. Just because he can't see that right now, in the depths of his new passion - or even if he NEVER properly appreciated it, time and distance are going to prove my point. I was a FANTASTIC partner to him. Much, much better than he deserved. He's intelligent enough that that will become very apparent eventually.

 

**** him, Melenkurion, stay away for another month or two as best you can - without burning any bridges with mutual friends. In a few months you'll be able to hear about his idiocy without even caring. Stay strong!

[melenkurion]

Hi Fern...

 

This time last week I felt totally on top of the world: I had a "date" Friday night, I was off for a weekend in London and I had this week pretty much sewn up with people to see and stuff to do (and reliable people so I knew things would take place).

 

And I totally loved the weekend in London. My friends I stayed with made me feel so very welcome, there was plenty to do, plenty to see. We did stuff that interested me (which was a pleasant change). And it was nice to have intelligent conversations outside of work for a change, without dumbing things down. My ex isn't stupid: he just doesn't care about that much. A lack of curiosity, really. I more or less forgot stuff the whole time I was there. I did far less of the wondering what he was up to, because I was pretty sure I was having a better, more wholesome time.

 

Heh. The "new religion" thing. There was a part of me worried that he was interested in it for "destructive" purposes. I don't believe for one moment that it works, but it was a bother that someone out there might be that unhinged, with a potential grudge against me. On reflection, I think he's flailing around and latched onto that as a potential "quick fix" for his career and money troubles. He just isn't prepared to put in any actual work to better himself, he wants to wait for the universe to recognise his superiority. I doubt he's even prepared to put in the necessary to manage a half-decent hex . I think any self-respecting satanist would be pretty disgusted with that attitude.

 

I think he's still loved up with Other Guy for now. But this doesn't suggest to me that he is entirely happy in all the aspects of his new life. He's not trying to change it by normal means, he is quite literally indulging in "magical thinking" and that is not usually considered psychologically healthy. Other Guy is not in good mental health, no form of relationship AT ALL until he was 30 years old. He's blissfully happy for now, of course, but come the first obstacle, he simply won't have the resources to cope. I have no idea if he is sharing any of this with Other Guy. My friend thought not --- the basic tenet of that faith is that YOU are the most important being in the universe, you come before anyone else, always. Not something you reveal to your shiny new love? But why do I care? I still don't want him back, no way. It's a desire for revenge I guess. I need to kick that habit, it does not help me at all. The best revenge is a happy and full life.

 

Having written this down, I am starting to feel a bit better about it all. I do think he is starting to go a bit nuts. He's not seeing his friends, only those he works with, and he isn't seeing them outside of work any more. His most emotionally literate friends are worried about him. He's not trying to address his problems other than trying magic. I'm glad I am out of it.

 

I think the rot has started to set in with my own ex and his new girl. Every time I've bumped into him recently he's tried to initiate friendly chats and act like he's concerned for my wellbeing - (I left a bar recently because he'd just arrived with his new girl and he followed me out to my car so he could BABBLE at me for 5 minutes about how bad the roads were - I mean WTF?). I've been polite, but cold and gotten out of there ASAP every time.

 

Heh. It's about three, four months since the break for you? The shine might well be starting to wear off and the realisation of what he has done is hitting home. Good luck to him . Seems like he is starting to miss you.

 

I was the best thing that EVER happened to that idiot. Just because he can't see that right now, in the depths of his new passion - or even if he NEVER properly appreciated it, time and distance are going to prove my point. I was a FANTASTIC partner to him. Much, much better than he deserved. He's intelligent enough that that will become very apparent eventually.

 

Good on you . You seem to be doing very well in seeing the positive in yourself. That's gonna help you get there.

 

And that helps me to realise that his 'amazing new life' is probably nowhere near as amazing as I imagine at my low points. And possibly quite a lot worse than I think.

 

Almost certainly a lot worse than you think. By now, nagging doubts and insecurities are creeping back in for him.

 

I have this deep-seated conviction that my ex and yours are going to come CRAWLING back in a few months. And by that point you and I aren't going to want to know.

 

That is my fantasy situation . It may never happen: my ex is "proud". But he is much weaker than me he's tried to keep on friendly terms with all of his exes, including the crazy one. He has always been the one to reach out to them. I hope when it happens to you tell him to eff right off! I admit I have listened to "I will survive" about thirty times these last few weeks (Cake rather than Gloria Gaynor, so not quite as stereotyped as it sounds).

 

I'm really sticking to NC. I think I am not doing quite so well at the moment because although I am not contacting him, he is popping into my thoughts this week and that's not proper NC .

[Fern]

You're doing brilliantly! Considering how recently you've been split, especially. We all have bad days and good days. The bad days are numbered though! Keep remembering the good days. :-D I had a lovely moment last weekend, sitting in a restaurant waiting for some friends, when I felt really positive and happy and like my whole future was stretched out in front of me. I like that memory. It reminded me of who I was before HIM.

 

Don't beat yourself up. You can't help it if he pops into your mind - as long as you don't allow those thoughts to become negative thoughts about how much you miss him or blaming yourself for what happened - that's perfectly natural. If your brain wants to think about him - roll with it, fighting it only makes it worse - but make sure your brain is remembering the BAD stuff about him and how much better off you're going to be in a few months when the attachment is properly broken. Police your thoughts! I can't stress the positive thinking enough. Nor can I stress enough how much you need to keep in mind the bad stuff about him and not let the rose-tinted glasses creep on. I have a list of ****ty things he did on my phone and if I'm feeling at all weak I read it. It perks me up every time. I go from thinking 'Oh, he was so funny and sweet...' to 'I am SO well shot of that a**hat! Good riddance!' In about 2 seconds flat.

 

These weak moments where you miss him and feel down - they get fewer and farther between. And every time I have a wobble I cheer myself up by thinking - 'next time I miss him and feel bad it's going to hurt far less than it does now'. And it always is less bad. Time is a wonderful healer.

 

As for his pride - you wait. From what you've said on here you've been incredibly mature and dignified about the whole thing. You think he's not going to look back at his relationship with you once the inevitable mental breakdown of his new guy happens and think 'Hang on a minute...'

Right now - whilst you and I are dedicating mind space to looking at our failed relationships and working out what happened and how to become better people and how to not make the same mistakes again - our exes are investing all their headspace in the NEW relationship. When it inevitably goes pear-shaped they'll have forgotten whatever it was about us they found so unbearable they couldn't live with it. They'll be looking back at us with the rose-tinted glasses on. We're gonna look like an Oasis in a desert looks to a traveller. He'll be back. Mark my words. And we're going to look at them and think 'was I drunk our whole relationship? What was I thinking?' Hahaha!

[melenkurion]

had a lovely moment last weekend, sitting in a restaurant waiting for some friends, when I felt really positive and happy and like my whole future was stretched out in front of me.

 

I had a lovely moment in a cafe in Greenwich, eating brunch with friends who wanted my company, laughing and joking. It felt pretty good. And for most of last weekend it did feel like life was only just starting. He'd not have gone to London to stay with my mates, never in a million years.

 

thoughts about how much you miss him or blaming yourself for what happened

 

The one thing I have never done is blame myself, fortunately. He crossed the line, he did a terrible wrong to me, he has behaved like a jerk most of the time since then. Everything after he crossed the line is his fault, him and my so-called mate. Whatever problems we had, he didn't choose to discuss, he chose to lie, to cheat, to betray. His choice, his fault. I am missing him less, to be honest. He used to make this nasty sniffing noise when he was annoyed with me (for "breathing too loud"). I just have to make myself hear that noise in my mind and I think he's a dick again. I told my counsellor about that noise, expecting nothing much. She was horrified: said it was incredibly abusive.

 

Right now - whilst you and I are dedicating mind space to looking at our failed relationships and working out what happened and how to become better people and how to not make the same mistakes again - our exes are investing all their headspace in the NEW relationship.

 

This is one area I am a bit unsure I am doing the Right Thing. In thinking about what went wrong, I can't get much beyond "I went for a handsome charmer who let the mask slip once he had me fully snared. I must have self-esteem issues I need to fix". The worst behaviour took place five years ago. I simply cannot believe what I put up with at that time. Apart from the cheating(!), it never got anywhere near as bad as that again, I would not have let it. I must have improved my self-esteem a little .

 

Um, I'm also cautiously dating someone, Other Guy's ex. It's going very, very slowly. I like having him around, we do nice fun stuff together once or twice a week: movies, pub, meals. I am a bit worried that that might not be the Best Thing in terms of healing. But it's nice to feel desired, wanted. My counsellor is surprisingly unconcerned, she says relationships don't need to be deadly serious, and if I am honest with him, it should be OK.

 

I feel pretty good about how I have handled this (OK, apart from the slight rebound issues!). My friends (and his) have all said I have been dignified. I rather expect to be resurfacing and starting to feel OK just at the point when the inevitable breakdown happens.

[melenkurion]

It's a silly thing, but I had a nice day yesterday. I spent a bit of time doing nothing more than watching a documentary with my friend. Nothing special, nothing exciting, just interesting. Yet for a couple of hours or so, I found that I had not thought about my ex at all. Prior to then, it had needed to be something pretty special to do that. I consider that to be progress.

 

I was at a birthday party this weekend with people that were mostly mutual friends, that I got to know through him. I knew beforehand that he wasn't going to show his face, it would have involved making an effort on his part, and he was never one for that. The birthday girl I had known just as long as my ex had known her, so I can't say I felt guilty about "stealing" his mates. If he won't put the effort in, well... That was my first social occasion of that kind as a single guy. It was fine. I had fun dancing with pretty girls. The last time I was with this same group my ex was in a major ego-related strop anyway so it brought back happy memories of him being a total moron .

[Fern]

It's a silly thing, but I had a nice day yesterday. I spent a bit of time doing nothing more than watching a documentary with my friend. Nothing special, nothing exciting, just interesting. Yet for a couple of hours or so, I found that I had not thought about my ex at all. Prior to then, it had needed to be something pretty special to do that. I consider that to be progress.

 

I was at a birthday party this weekend with people that were mostly mutual friends, that I got to know through him. I knew beforehand that he wasn't going to show his face, it would have involved making an effort on his part, and he was never one for that. The birthday girl I had known just as long as my ex had known her, so I can't say I felt guilty about "stealing" his mates. If he won't put the effort in, well... That was my first social occasion of that kind as a single guy. It was fine. I had fun dancing with pretty girls. The last time I was with this same group my ex was in a major ego-related strop anyway so it brought back happy memories of him being a total moron .

 

Yay! Better every day.

 

You're doing better than me if you can forget about him for any length of time. I'm able to be really positive about the breakup now (most of the time) but by God am I sick of thinking about it. It still takes up FAR too much of my head space.

[melenkurion]

Fern, I still think about him a huge amount. It's rare I can manage an hour without thinking of him. I no longer think of him in a good way any more, and I never find myself wanting him back in my life. He and Other Guy truly deserve each other.

 

I'm like a little kid, though. Mostly when I think of him I find myself thinking "Why isn't he missing me?". In my head I know the answer: he moved on a long time before I found out he was cheating. He is four months ahead of me on this. For him, our relationship ended six months ago.

 

Recently I am getting stuck on:

 

"This is so unfair. He did a Terrible Awful Thing, pretty much the worst thing you can do do someone. Yet he is feeling happy and loved, having carefree fun. I tried my hardest to be a good husband, yet here I am alone and often pretty down. I'm having to work my ass off for every scrap of happiness I get".

 

It's not helpful, of course, in my head I know it's ridiculous. I know that my happiness is my own responsibility, it always was. I need to stop looking for external validation. To be fully healed I shouldn't care one iota about what is going on in my ex's life. To heal I need to put him out of my mind.

 

I guess this "it's so unfair" is a common thing when you get dumped for someone else? How do you get past it?

[strangeways]

Fern, I still think about him a huge amount. It's rare I can manage an hour without thinking of him. I no longer think of him in a good way any more, and I never find myself wanting him back in my life. He and Other Guy truly deserve each other.

 

I'm like a little kid, though. Mostly when I think of him I find myself thinking "Why isn't he missing me?". In my head I know the answer: he moved on a long time before I found out he was cheating. He is four months ahead of me on this. For him, our relationship ended six months ago.

 

Recently I am getting stuck on:

 

"This is so unfair. He did a Terrible Awful Thing, pretty much the worst thing you can do do someone. Yet he is feeling happy and loved, having carefree fun. I tried my hardest to be a good husband, yet here I am alone and often pretty down. I'm having to work my ass off for every scrap of happiness I get".

 

It's not helpful, of course, in my head I know it's ridiculous. I know that my happiness is my own responsibility, it always was. I need to stop looking for external validation. To be fully healed I shouldn't care one iota about what is going on in my ex's life. To heal I need to put him out of my mind.

 

I guess this "it's so unfair" is a common thing when you get dumped for someone else? How do you get past it?

 

Hey melenkurion. Been following your thread since the beginning but never posted as evryone else seems to be giving good advice and support.

It's been 3 months since my ex left (2.5 monts of NC no attempts at contact from either of us).

 

I so remember the feelings of "it's not fair", "why isn't she missing me", "how come she gets to be happy", "how could she do this to me" etc, etc. These will pass. With time. Fact is we've no idea how they're really feeling; are they having fun, are they carefree. Who knows? Who cares (I know you do but you won't at some point)?

 

You're right that our happiness is our own responsibility. I realised very early on that I was looking to my relationship to make me happy. I'd lost contact with my friends, stopped doing the things I enjoyed doing and for what, someone that didn't appreciate me. I'm still getting back to "happy". The lonliness is still there. In the last 11/12 years I've probably not been in a relationship for 9 months so it's pretty clear to me why I'm lonely. But, I'm looking forward. Nothing else I/we can do.

 

To me, it sounds like you're doing really well and you're well free of that heartless nutjob.

[melenkurion]

he Strangeways, thank you for saying I am doing well!

 

Rationally, I cannot work out why on earth I care what he thinks, whether he misses me or not, whether he is truly happy in his Wonderful New Life. We are over, he made his choices, irrevocably. You are quite correct, he is a heartless nutjob.

 

Thinking "it's not fair" is a complete waste of time and effort. Sure, it's not especially fair, if he is happy. So what? Whether it's fair or not doesn't change a damn thing. I know that in my head.

[strangeways]

he Strangeways, thank you for saying I am doing well!

 

Rationally, I cannot work out why on earth I care what he thinks, whether he misses me or not, whether he is truly happy in his Wonderful New Life. We are over, he made his choices, irrevocably. You are quite correct, he is a heartless nutjob.

 

Thinking "it's not fair" is a complete waste of time and effort. Sure, it's not especially fair, if he is happy. So what? Whether it's fair or not doesn't change a damn thing. I know that in my head.

 

Don't try and rationalise those thoughts. Accept them as part of the process and don't beat youself up about having them. We all have them. They'll pass with time. These kind of thoughts lasted quite a while for me.

 

I did all the right things after the breakup, reconnect with friends, gym, keeping myself busy etc (all very important) but I still had those thoughts and still had to go through the process. I realised that time was the most important factor. That's just me though and others may have other strategies for overcoming them.

 

I've been 80 odd days of NC and I still have them occaisionally but they pass quickly now.

 

At some point you won't care one iota what he's thinking or doing.

[Fern]

Fern, I still think about him a huge amount. It's rare I can manage an hour without thinking of him. I no longer think of him in a good way any more, and I never find myself wanting him back in my life. He and Other Guy truly deserve each other.

 

I'm like a little kid, though. Mostly when I think of him I find myself thinking "Why isn't he missing me?". In my head I know the answer: he moved on a long time before I found out he was cheating. He is four months ahead of me on this. For him, our relationship ended six months ago.

 

Recently I am getting stuck on:

 

"This is so unfair. He did a Terrible Awful Thing, pretty much the worst thing you can do do someone. Yet he is feeling happy and loved, having carefree fun. I tried my hardest to be a good husband, yet here I am alone and often pretty down. I'm having to work my ass off for every scrap of happiness I get".

 

It's not helpful, of course, in my head I know it's ridiculous. I know that my happiness is my own responsibility, it always was. I need to stop looking for external validation. To be fully healed I shouldn't care one iota about what is going on in my ex's life. To heal I need to put him out of my mind.

 

I guess this "it's so unfair" is a common thing when you get dumped for someone else? How do you get past it?

 

I could have written this post myself. I feel EXACTLY the same way. I deal with it by reminding myself that even if he IS blissfully happy right now -

 

(which I don't think is true - he has managed to complicate his life CONSIDERABLY in the past few months. He's alienated many of his friends, ****ed up his education and future by dropping out, no longer has me paying his bills and is therefore completely skint, and has saddled himself with a single mother who has NOBODY but him (she has no friends, I think she's Borderline Personality disorder from the stories I've heard) and is obviously still hung up on her ex-fiancee, despite being in a relationship with him.)

 

even if he IS blissfully happy, despite all those complications, even if she's the woman of his dreams right now and she's everything I never was or ever could be and he can honestly say he never felt an IOTA as strongly towards me as he does for her right now - even if ALL that is true - I just remind myself that he's in the first flush of the honeymoon period. When that wears off - in six days, six weeks, six months - or even six years - when that wears off, what's he going to be left with? All those complications I already mentioned and a girl with mental problems, no mates of her own, no intellect or ambitions, and another man's child to deal with. He has LOST HIS ****ING MIND. I honestly think he needs counselling. He has some serious issues from his childhood and has not dealt yet with the grief of his mother's death 2 years ago. Even if he never wants or tries to get me back (our relationship was crap towards the end, mainly because I was the only one trying to make it work. But I suspect he will come crawling back eventually, I'm pretty amazing. Haha!) even if he never wants me back, I have no doubt this current relationship is DOOMED. I really hope when it ends he takes a look at himself and sorts himself out, but he'll most likely do the same thing to the new girl that he did to me. Unless she does it to him first - the main reason she has no female friends is because she can't be trusted around other people's men. I've had STRANGERS in the pub come up and tell me stories about her coming onto their boyfriends.

 

When your exes new fella inevitably starts to come unhinged. When the shine of this new relationship wears off, what do you think is going to happen?

 

There's nothing wrong with us darling - we're BRILLIANT. These idiots are the ones with the real problems. All we suffer from is being blind to our own fabulousness. He'll get his. And not because of Karma or any nonsense like that, but because you can only get back from life what you put into it. He's incapable of loving anyone. You had a lucky escape. xxxxxx

 

ADDS: I'm well aware I might be deluding myself and they might be MEANT to be and will end up together forever and sickeningly in love - however there's no more or less evidence for that outcome than there is for my version where they end up destitute and loveless. Ergo I have CONVINCED myself of the outcome that cheers me up. In a few months I won't give a sh*t one way or the other and thinking like this makes me happier than imagining them working out. :-D

Edited December 15, 2010 by Fern
Adds

[melenkurion]

I've been 80 odd days of NC and I still have them occaisionally but they pass quickly now.

 

At some point you won't care one iota what he's thinking or doing.

 

Good to know, strangeways. I so want that day to come! He doesn't deserve so much of my time and my thoughts. The fog lifted about a month ago, and I see him for what he is. I need to recognise this for the lucky escape it actually is. This could have gone on for much longer, grinding me further and further down.

 

she has no friends, I think she's Borderline Personality disorder from the stories I've heard

 

Fern: It's amusing how similar I think our stories are in many respects. Other Guy displays a lot of traits of BPD, I have thought this from early on. I know it's easy to project all kinds of massive psychological issues on people we hate. But he does have issues: he's self-harmed, attempted suicide, spent years on SSRIs, CBT hasn't remotely worked, he reached the age of 30 without ever having had a relationship. None of this stuff is "fixed", he is just deliriously happy (for now). He seems to have an extremely weak sense of identity. The most marked trait for me was OG's habit of chucking all his mates away every six months or so. The only friends he has kept live hundreds of miles away. Also, in his case, over a matter of a couple of months, OG's hobbies and interests matched my ex's. Mirroring, I think this is called in some circles (usually mirroring means something else, but it fits this behaviour trait very well). Mirroring can prove irresistible: they end up falling in love with their own reflection.

[Fern]

he does have issues: he's self-harmed, attempted suicide, spent years on SSRIs, CBT hasn't remotely worked, he reached the age of 30 without ever having had a relationship. None of this stuff is "fixed", he is just deliriously happy (for now). He seems to have an extremely weak sense of identity. The most marked trait for me was OG's habit of chucking all his mates away every six months or so. The only friends he has kept live hundreds of miles away. Also, in his case, over a matter of a couple of months, OG's hobbies and interests matched my ex's. Mirroring, I think this is called in some circles (usually mirroring means something else, but it fits this behaviour trait very well). Mirroring can prove irresistible: they end up falling in love with their own reflection.

 

That's my boy! This is the stuff you need to bear in the forefront of your mind when you get down and start imagining (remember that word - IMAGINING, not knowing) that he's got off scott free that there's something about this new guy that you can't or didn't live up to. Short term you have the pain of moving on from this and picking up the pieces - which you're doing. And might I say - doing in spectacularly dignified fashion, displaying real strength of character, integrity and grace. Just like myself. :-D

What's he doing? Tossing aside love, partnership, friendships, showing himself to be a liar and cheater with no integrity and a selfish streak a mile wide. And for what? Lust/infatuation - that's some sort of chemical reaction or hormonal imbalance that can't be helped (I had huge crushes a couple of times during the 6 years I was with my ex - I just didn't act on them and they passed very quickly) - but it WEARS OFF.

 

Like the OG, my exes NG was very clever in manipulating the exes feelings (I'm not letting him off the hook, he was a **** boyfriend anyway, I'm glad he's her problem now) - she started liking all the music he liked on FB, asking him to help her with technology stuff, getting pally with his sister (who never trusted her, going to all his bands gigs offering to take photos, confiding in him about her problems, making him feel NEEDED, telling him how cool and funny he was, acting all girly and vulnerable. She was the anti-me, basically - I must have seemed like his mother *cringes*. But that sh*t WEARS OFF.

 

Our exes didn't move onto pastures greener, they didn't get a 'better offer' in any way. Just keep remembering that. There is something deeply, deeply flawed in the character of that 'heartless nutjob' (good description Strangeways!) you had the misfortune to marry. And my ex - I should have known better from the start, the signs were all there. Lesson learned.

 

I suspect one of the problems they have in common is that they have no capacity for introspection. Certainly my ex has none. His emotions fall into two categories -Feel Good and Feel Bad. He's never learned to distinguish between the bad emotions or examine where they come from. He felt bad a lot of the time, then she turned up and he felt good around her - ergo she was the thing that was going to 'fix' him and make him happy. *rolleyes* I spent 6 years trying to 'make him happy' and 'fix' him. She's CERTAINLY not going to have any more success than me. She needs too much support herself. I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for her. I wonder has she met the dark side of his personality yet? It's only 4 months, but I wouldn't be surprised. He'll take his moods out on her like he did on me eventually.

 

Your ex is NOT going to be happier with OG than he was with you. Think about it. Even if they're blissful right now, the infatuation stage doesn't last forever for anyone. Your Ex moved on, not because there was something wrong with you - but because there is something missing in him that he couldn't make a REAL love, a REAL relationship work.

We have a wee saying where I come from, we say someone 'has a wee want in them', when there's just something 'off' about them emotionally or mentally. Like - you can't put your finger on it - but they're just not quite right...

That sums my ex up. He'll never be happy at this rate. He'll never learn.

[strangeways]

That's my boy! This is the stuff you need to bear in the forefront of your mind when you get down and start imagining (remember that word - IMAGINING, not knowing) that he's got off scott free that there's something about this new guy that you can't or didn't live up to. Short term you have the pain of moving on from this and picking up the pieces - which you're doing. And might I say - doing in spectacularly dignified fashion, displaying real strength of character, integrity and grace. Just like myself. :-D

What's he doing? Tossing aside love, partnership, friendships, showing himself to be a liar and cheater with no integrity and a selfish streak a mile wide. And for what? Lust/infatuation - that's some sort of chemical reaction or hormonal imbalance that can't be helped (I had huge crushes a couple of times during the 6 years I was with my ex - I just didn't act on them and they passed very quickly) - but it WEARS OFF.

 

Like the OG, my exes NG was very clever in manipulating the exes feelings (I'm not letting him off the hook, he was a **** boyfriend anyway, I'm glad he's her problem now) - she started liking all the music he liked on FB, asking him to help her with technology stuff, getting pally with his sister (who never trusted her, going to all his bands gigs offering to take photos, confiding in him about her problems, making him feel NEEDED, telling him how cool and funny he was, acting all girly and vulnerable. She was the anti-me, basically - I must have seemed like his mother *cringes*. But that sh*t WEARS OFF.

 

Our exes didn't move onto pastures greener, they didn't get a 'better offer' in any way. Just keep remembering that. There is something deeply, deeply flawed in the character of that 'heartless nutjob' (good description Strangeways!) you had the misfortune to marry. And my ex - I should have known better from the start, the signs were all there. Lesson learned.

 

I suspect one of the problems they have in common is that they have no capacity for introspection. Certainly my ex has none. His emotions fall into two categories -Feel Good and Feel Bad. He's never learned to distinguish between the bad emotions or examine where they come from. He felt bad a lot of the time, then she turned up and he felt good around her - ergo she was the thing that was going to 'fix' him and make him happy. *rolleyes* I spent 6 years trying to 'make him happy' and 'fix' him. She's CERTAINLY not going to have any more success than me. She needs too much support herself. I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for her. I wonder has she met the dark side of his personality yet? It's only 4 months, but I wouldn't be surprised. He'll take his moods out on her like he did on me eventually.

 

Your ex is NOT going to be happier with OG than he was with you. Think about it. Even if they're blissful right now, the infatuation stage doesn't last forever for anyone. Your Ex moved on, not because there was something wrong with you - but because there is something missing in him that he couldn't make a REAL love, a REAL relationship work.

We have a wee saying where I come from, we say someone 'has a wee want in them', when there's just something 'off' about them emotionally or mentally. Like - you can't put your finger on it - but they're just not quite right...

That sums my ex up. He'll never be happy at this rate. He'll never learn.

 

Fern, great post.

 

Makes me happy and sad at the same time.

 

You could have written this about my ex.

[Fern]

Is your ex with someone else now Strangeway? Or did she genuinely end it because of commitment issues? I read your first post there now. Was there more to it than she let on? Or do you even know?

[melenkurion]

Fern, that really does make me feel good!

 

Short term you have the pain of moving on from this and picking up the pieces - which you're doing. And might I say - doing in spectacularly dignified fashion, displaying real strength of character, integrity and grace. Just like myself. :-D

 

Thanks! You do sound like you have made amazing progress. You're kinda my role model at the moment .

 

It's proving helpful when the thoughts of "woe is me, I was abandoned for an emotional wreck" pop into my head to me to think in this way... That OG is not better than me in any way that I can think of, other than having such a weak sense of identity that he can mould himself in a mini-me of my ex.

 

Ultimately I need to somehow work out how to stop thinking those thoughts in the first place. But they upset me far less, when I have them.

 

I do think my ex is quite poor at introspection. Although he does have a very strong need for time alone. When he has ideas for what he needs to do, or whatever, they don't come from introspection, they come from impulses. Or so it seems. He says he never even considered the consequences of the affair. He's walked out of a job twice, and each time ended up going back to it after a month or so. heh.

[strangeways]

Is your ex with someone else now Strangeway? Or did she genuinely end it because of commitment issues? I read your first post there now. Was there more to it than she let on? Or do you even know?

 

To be honest Fern I have no idea if there was someone else (she said no) but really, I'd be surprised if there wasn't. I get a feeling that she wouldn't have left me without someone else to go to so she wouldn't feel lonely or whatever but like I said I don't know for sure. Haven't heard from her since, don't know where she is, don't know whats she's doing (but I suspect it involves drink and drugs as it's always been her way of forgetting about things in the past from what I can gather).

 

She does have a bundle of emotional issues from her past. A very sad story. Divorce of her parents (her mother felt trapped), soon followed by the painful, drawn out death of her mother from bowel cancer, an emotionally unavailable father who basically (emotionally) abandoned her. None of her family was prepared to talk to her about her mother (even to this day) and from what I can gather no one stried to support her. An affair with a married man when she was 19, NO long term relationships until me (she's 28). All lasted about 2 months. She really can't commit to anything, new jobs every year, always thinking about a new career but never doing anything about it, couldn't bear the idea of a mobile phone contract because she "didn't know where she would be in 18 months" when in fact she would be where she always was, moves flats every year, the list goes on. She questions every decision she makes. She was afraid of abandonment particularly. She felt that when she really needed someone they would disappear. Guess she abandoned me before I could abandon her. She bailed on me 4 days after we moved in together after we had talked about it for months, looked at houses and she pushed for it.

 

I remember her asking me "Do you know what day Tuesday is?" (Sept 7th). For some reason I said "It's the anniversay of your mums death" (14 years). She was taken aback and asked me how I knew that and all I could say was "I don't know". She didn't ever tell me the date of the anniversary I just instinctively knew somehow. That was a couple of days after she dropped the bomb. More than a coincidence I think.

 

Thing is she seemed very aware of these issues just couldn't see a way to change. I think in some ways she was "using" me to see if our relationship could change her. Trying out what a LTR is supposed to be like. Guess she just reached her limit and ran. I think she tried to "change" with me. e.g. Cut down a lot on the drinking and drugs. said she was over it, wanted to settle down and have kids in the next 2-3 years. Think she acts like a mirror and reflects what other people want to see to make her more "acceptable". I've no doubt she also lost attraction for me also, despite all the things she said at the end. I'm not naive about that. Thing is she couldn't even commit to ending it. She always left a "but...". As she was leaving she said she "did want to be with me but....", "did love me but...". When she moved her stuff out she said "Don't take this as a sign" WTF!!! I pretty much had to end it for her. When you write it all out like this you just end up thinking "What the **** WAS I thinking"!

 

My bad. I've done a lot of soul seraching about why we ended up together (I should have run a mile) and I definitely feel that I have some caregiver/fixer issues to say the least!

 

Sorry for the length. Got carried away.

 

melen: sorry to threadjack!

Edited December 17, 2010 by strangeways

[melenkurion]

strangeways: Don't worry about it!

 

I think you are probably right: an ex like the one you have described would be unlikely to leave without someone else lined up to stop the loneliness. I'm sorry. I just think it's rare to leave without having someone else lined up to ease the pain of parting. For someone to do that, they need to be very strong. Your ex does not sound like she has that strength.

 

I'm like you, trying to work out why I ended up in the relationship I was in. I can see now I should have got out five years ago. Things were really, really crappy then. I can't see why I put up with it. They did get far better after that, and we eventually ended up entering the partnership. He was the one that "proposed", he was the one that named the date, wanted an engagement party...

 

I've found out that he is having some kind of pre-Christmas meltdown according to his friends. He can't spend Christmas with OG, who is committed to a family Christmas and isn't ready to introduce my ex to his family yet (cos he needs to avoid explaining WTF is going on). He can't spend Christmas with his parents because he hasn't got the time off to travel to them. I feel awful because my first reaction to hearing all this was "You deserve this after your betrayal. I hope you have a thoroughly miserable time and spend it thinking about the happy Christmases spent with me". He's getting very short of money, also. He isn't spending much time with OG either, for whatever reason. Only weekends. Weekdays he is mostly alone.

 

I know I do need to stay away from our mutual friends, because I am hearing stuff I don't need to know. They told me this without me asking. They are worried. Meh.

 

How do I stop thinking about him, though? I want to be in a state where I just don't feel anything for him one way or the other. At the moment, it feels like that is such a long way away for me. I can see progress in other ways: I don't feel miserable any more. I don't want him back, and that's both my head and my heart. The counselling has really worked in terms of making me "feel" it as well as think it. I feel such a lot more confident, too. I had not realised how much he put me down. The only area where there isn't much progress is that I still think about him, most of the day, every day.

 

I spent the weekend with the guy I am dating, and I had a really nice time. He was so kind without it being overdone, being with him made me feel happy. I think it's way too soon, because I still think about my ex. My counsellor says I needn't necessarily worry: a relationship doesn't need to be all heavy and intense, we can just enjoy each other's company. As long as I am honest with him (which I am) she says it can be fine. She specialises in counselling for gay relationships, so I suppose she's getting at the fact that maybe gay men can "just have fun". Dunno. All a bit new to me.

[strangeways]

an ex like the one you have described would be unlikely to leave without someone else lined up to stop the loneliness. I'm sorry. I just think it's rare to leave without having someone else lined up to ease the pain of parting. For someone to do that, they need to be very strong. Your ex does not sound like she has that strength.

 

No need to be sorry. I think you're right. Either way it's all rather moot now. She's gone, and whatever the reasons I'll probably never really know and just have to make sure I learn the lessons.

 

It's interesting, I see this as an ephiany realtionship, one where I've learned so much about myself, my motivations, fears, anxieties and for that I'm grateful. It's only take 41 years:lmao:. It's even more of an epiphany than the my previous 10 year realtionship strangely enough, and I can only now really understand why that one failed.

 

The counselling has really worked in terms of making me "feel" it as well as think it.

 

Interesting. I might give counselling a spin in the new year when I can afford it. I've identified a number of issues I have from talking to family, reading etc and I think it might be useful to speak to a professional about actually tackling these things.

 

I'm glad you've had a nice weekend with this new guy and you're right it doesn't have to be too heavy and intense and as long as the two of you are honest with each other shouldn't be a problem.

 

Like you I feel I've made progress in many ways after almost 3 months of NC but I miss her (more now than a month ago which is interesting) as well and it feels like it'll take longer than I thought to finally "let go".

 

How do I stop thinking about him, though?

 

When you find out let me know. I don't know about you I tend to overanalyse things. I was talking to a friend (who's been a real rock for me) yesterday and she just said that I have to stop doing this. Again, I'm not sure how I do this. I think I need to concentrate more on me now.

[Fern]

I too still think about him/the breakup constantly. But it doesn't UPSET me anymore. I feel like I'm recovering from Stockholm Syndrome and my brain is still trying to come to terms with the fact that everything I believed about the world was utter lies. I believed I was in a loving relationship. Contrary to all the facts. I believed that he loved me - contrary to all the evidence. It's disorienting. :-D No wonder my poor brain keeps worrying at it. I'm disgusted at myself for being complicit in a 6 year con at MY OWN expense. You don't come to terms with that overnight. I'm just happy I don't cry in work anymore. It's just going to take TIME to get the exes out of our brains, boys. *sigh*

 

Why do you think this one taught you so much more than the last relationship, Strangeways? Given how short it was in relation to your marriage. What did it teach you about the failure of the 10 year relationship - if you don't mind me asking? If I'm overstepping my boundaries, just tell me to mind my own beeswax.

 

I'm beginning to think that the only thing still bothering me is my exes new relationship. I'm still REALLY annoyed about that. I wouldn't mind if she wasn't so awful. If they split soon I'll be like a pig in clover. His new girl recently started stalking another boy (honeymoon over there then) - my flatmate has a younger sister and NG's new target is the boyfriend of a friend of her sister. You wouldn't think I'm a 32 year old professional woman with a good career if you had any insight into my personal life of late. How did I let this moron of a man turn my life into an episode of a teen soap opera?

 

Melen - don't feel bad about revelling in his misery. I do the same. I'm a connoisseur of his discomfort. They deserve every bit of bad karma they get. As long as we're not out there actively trying to cause them pain, I think it's quite therapeutic to know that they're not getting off scott free.

[strangeways]

Why do you think this one taught you so much more than the last relationship, Strangeways? Given how short it was in relation to your marriage. What did it teach you about the failure of the 10 year relationship - if you don't mind me asking? If I'm overstepping my boundaries, just tell me to mind my own beeswax.

 

I think the main reason it's taught me more was the shock of her just getting up and walking out and me thinking "What the f**k just happenned?" and then searching for answers. My previous relationship died a slow death if you like. Not acrimonious as such but we both started detaching from each other and slowly fell out of love in the end, while upsetting it was a relatively mutual end. I just thought we both fell out of love and didn't really question it.

 

Both my previous partners where somewhat "broken" emotionally. Both had issues with divorce of parents, abandonment. The issue with my most recent ex though were more serious in that her past was more tragic than my ex ex and the patterns of her past relationships was easier to see.

 

Basically what I realise is that I was as much "broken" as them. I thought my mum and dad had a near perfect marraige (45 years). I realised that simply wasn't true. My mother was abandoned by her father when she was five. Saw him once after he left. She sadmitted to me her fears of abandonment and her suicidal thoughts which led her to therapy, and the fact that the majority of her marraige has been joyless. My fathers father was a physically abusive alcoholic. Basically, in my view, having reflected on things and talked to my mother extensively (my father would NEVER be able to talk about this stuff), my father was completely emotionally unavailable to my mother, very low self esteem despite some of the great things he's done in his life. I think my mother completely smothered me, very overprotective, and I became some kind of support for her in the emotional absence of my father. I bacame a bit of a people pleaser/fixer/caregiver. This has effected my realtionships, I believe, in the sense I've somehow "sought out" partners that need "fixing" in some way and both my ex's in some why looked for someone to "fix" them

 

I think in my previous 10 year relationship it was me that started to withdraw emotionally, not quite sure why, could be mid life crisis, fear of forever (ie commitmet), not wanting to end up in an unhealthy 45 year marraige like may parents etc etc, which caused my ex ex to withdraw and we simply didn't have a healthy emotional coping mechanism to deal with it.

 

Could be all b******ks of course but it seems to fit.

 

I too still think about him/the breakup constantly. But it doesn't UPSET me anymore.

 

Same for me, the PAIN has gone but the thoughts are still there.

 

Melen - don't feel bad about revelling in his misery. I do the same. I'm a connoisseur of his discomfort. They deserve every bit of bad karma they get. As long as we're not out there actively trying to cause them pain, I think it's quite therapeutic to know that they're not getting off scott free.

 

Agree with this.

Edited December 20, 2010 by strangeways

[Fern]

Basically what I realise is that I was as much "broken" as them. I thought my mum and dad had a near perfect marraige (45 years). I realised that simply wasn't true. My mother was abandoned by her father when she was five. Saw him once after he left. She sadmitted to me her fears of abandonment and her suicidal thoughts which led her to therapy, and the fact that the majority of her marraige has been joyless. My fathers father was a physically abusive alcoholic. Basically, in my view, having reflected on things and talked to my mother extensively (my father would NEVER be able to talk about this stuff), my father was completely emotionally unavailable to my mother, very low self esteem despite some of the great things he's done in his life. I think my mother completely smothered me, very overprotective, and I became some kind of support for her in the emotional absence of my father. I bacame a bit of a people pleaser/fixer/caregiver. This has effected my realtionships, I believe, in the sense I've somehow "sought out" partners that need fixing in some way.

 

That all makes a lot of sense. Can I say that it gives me hope to see a man who's capable of working this stuff out? Without sounding patronising? My ex will never figure out why his relationships are always sh*t - and it's mainly his fault.

 

I'm a bit the same as you - always choosing to fall in love with people who need fixed. I was very much a 'pleaser' too when I was younger. Though I think my MAIN problem is some sort of masochistic streak that believed (past tense) you could make people love you if you tried hard enough. Talk about self-esteem problems.

 

I'm glad to know these things about myself now. I can prevent the same mistakes cropping up again. I'd rather be single forever than in another bad relationship.

[strangeways]

Though I think my MAIN problem is some sort of masochistic streak that believed (past tense) you could make people love you if you tried hard enough. Talk about self-esteem problems.

 

Tell me about it!

 

It feels like it's a bitter pill to swallow sometimes. Feels like I've wasted a lot of time but I'm glad I can see and accept this part of myself.

 

I think also after all this realisation I feel bad about how I've treated my wife (faults on both side but still). She is/was essentially a very good woman and wife. We're on good terms and talk weekly about the kids. She's in a new relationship and is very happy and I'm very pleased for her.

[melenkurion]

Fern: how did you stop the "people pleasing"? I think that is a big part of my trouble, and I have been that way as long as I can remember. It's how come I put up with the bad stuff for so long, why I was so unwilling to confront things and say "no" when I wasn't happy. I can see it as a problem, but I can't work out quite how to stop it yet. It's fairly deeply ingrained. My sister is just the same, which I think can't be a coincidence.