The Psyche of the Late Bloomer

[Star Gazer]

From my past reads, this seems like absolute projection.

 

Duh. It absolutely is.

 

Well by experience, I meant to convey it in a broader sense. It seems like you think you're lacking " something" to really make a relationship work and that's why you feel like you're acting the way you think you do.

 

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with you, except confidence to believe in yourself. Instead of blaming your failures on circumstances, learn, accept, and move on.

 

Also, there's nothing wrong with being Asian.

 

Paper hit the nail on the head, on all points.

 

Maybe if he hears this from multiple people, he'll start to believe it. I hope so.

[Green]

This is exactly what I worry about. I'm so worried about the question will come up that I can't enjoy first dates. I generally feel all hope is lost within a few minutes of the date starting.

 

If she questions my commitment I don't know how to answer. I'm very committed and loyal to friends and family, but that's not an answer. Even the toughest job interview question doesn't come close.

 

There are late bloomers like the OP who esenially started at 25 and then there are really late bloomers. I'm in my late 30s and have had about 10 first dates, none have which led to second dates.

 

Stop worrying about it

[northern_sky]

The ONLY "partner" you've even seen him deal with here is ME. Please leave your personal distaste for me and your snarky comments about his choice in women (i.e., me) out of his thread.

 

 

 

This assumes his feelings are superficial. They're very real. He just invests too much too quickly, for his own good.

 

 

 

Again, this has no basis in fact, as he hasn't discussed such things here. You're making it personal.

 

I said he looks for women who are incompatible with HIM. That's not a judgment on their character, as they could be perfect for somebody else.

 

I also remember reading threads about his ex, and his descriptions of her made her sound incompatible in some similar ways. No, he hasn't discussed anything about you per se on here, but he has shared a great deal about his struggles with his ex and own personal demons. In addition someone's personality inevitably seeps into their posts.

 

I strongly believe you learn more about somebody from reading between the lines rather than taking their personal accounts at face value. Even in your online banter I could detect some of the problems I'm now describing. Nothing that he posted about in this thread came as a surprise to me; it was totally in line with my impression.

[Green]

I said he looks for women who are incompatible with HIM. That's not a judgment on their character, as they could be perfect for somebody else.

 

I also remember reading threads about his ex, and his descriptions of her made her sound incompatible in some similar ways. No, he hasn't discussed anything about you per se on here, but he has shared a great deal about his struggles with his ex and own personal demons. In addition someone's personality inevitably seeps into their posts.

 

I strongly believe you learn more about somebody from reading between the lines rather than taking their personal accounts at face value. Even in your online banter I could detect some of the problems I'm now describing. Nothing that he posted about in this thread came as a surprise to me; it was totally in line with my impression.

 

This is all rather intersting. I get the feeling though that USMC never fully bloomed. He lacks a key level of confidence. Then again a lot of people who have been dating since middle school still lack confidence.

[northern_sky]

From my past reads, this seems like absolute projection.

 

Just because Hokie and I both struggle with self esteem doesn't mean I'm projecting. I think aside from that loose connection, his issues are very different from mine.

 

I tend to be more cynical and unforgiving about people than Hokie is. But when a guy breaks through that cynicism, I get attached fast. I also have problems with intimacy; once the feelings are reciprocated my interest tends to dwindle. I don't think Hokie is like that. I think he gets attached fast and his interest doesn't fade when it is reciprocated. If anything it grows stronger.

 

I also look for very different qualities in partners from what he is drawn to.

[USMCHokie]

This is all rather intersting. I get the feeling though that USMC never fully bloomed. He lacks a key level of confidence.

 

You might be right here...but I'm not sure exactly how...there are some things I have 100% confidence in...I'll run around the entire city of DC in just a little pair of shorts...and shoes...and I'll do my fully choreographed songs at the karaoke bar with not a care in the world...and I'll start random conversations with strangers anywhere...but I honestly feel like all the qualities that I feel confident in just don't make much difference to women...so on one hand, I know I'm the f'in sh*t and am not afraid to attention whore it up...but on the other hand, I'm thinking, 'so what...who cares...?' I have never associated my attention whoring with dating...

[threebyfate]

Yea, I'm trying not to let others' opinions paint the picture of how I view myself...it's a work in progress...

Consider this. External opinion is like a spit in the bucket. NO ONE knows or understands every facet of anyone. Most often, people see others through their own internal lens and often, that lens is near-sighted or at minimum, astigmatic.

 

So, who are you Hokie? Once you've figured that out, that's the best time to start figuring out what kind of partner you need.

[Jannah]

This is exactly what I worry about. I'm so worried about the question will come up that I can't enjoy first dates. I generally feel all hope is lost within a few minutes of the date starting.

 

If she questions my commitment I don't know how to answer. I'm very committed and loyal to friends and family, but that's not an answer. Even the toughest job interview question doesn't come close.

 

There are late bloomers like the OP who esenially started at 25 and then there are really late bloomers. I'm in my late 30s and have had about 10 first dates, none have which led to second dates.

 

Most people aren't going to question your level of commitment on a first date, so you shouldn't worry about that. Besides, there is no need for anyone to disclose their entire life history during a first date.

[sumdude]

I was a lot like you at your age. Nothing until after high school. Other than a few ONS I had never been in a relationship until I was 28. At 31 I met my future ex-wife. I don't regret it... but most people around me wondered what the hell I was thinking and that I could do better. They were right but at the time I didn't believe it.

 

It really comes down to self-esteem and self-image. Those beasts came back to roost when my wife cheated and left. I found myself again at 40 feeling some of those same insecurities again... but with a lot more experience. So I ended up having more little relationships in the couple years after my marriage than before. So rationally I know I'm a catch but that early programming can still bite me sometimes. So I have to keep reminding myself and try to retrain the brain to see myself as I really am. Which is one cool dude who has his s*** together and a lot to offer any woman. It's about controlling that self talk and the negative voices when they pop up.

 

There's a certain amount of character that gets built when you have to overcome your past. Because it would be easy in a way to just get bitter. Blame your childhood, genetics and members of the opposite sex then give up.

[welikeincrowds]

but I honestly feel like all the qualities that I feel confident in just don't make much difference to women

 

BAM. There's your contradiction.

 

It's not true "confidence" if your pride in it or value of it is dependent on who your audience is, or how they perceive it. No matter what it is, who's looking at it, what body parts they own, what time of day it is. Confidence is universal.

 

What it comes down to is trust in yourself. That what you think matters should matter to, or should at least be respected by, anyone that is worth your time.

[USMCHokie]

I have never associated my attention whoring with dating...

 

I meant to edit and add to this, but it was too late...

 

To give you an example of what I mean...Halloween weekend...I spent the entire Friday and Saturday nights with no shirt on (per the costume)...but I also had no intention of hitting on any women or trying to attract them...my friend who I was with kept telling me how women were staring me down whenever we passed by them...I told him he was full of sh*t and went about my evening...it was still a good time...

[northern_sky]

You might be right here...but I'm not sure exactly how...there are some things I have 100% confidence in...I'll run around the entire city of DC in just a little pair of shorts...and shoes...and I'll do my fully choreographed songs at the karaoke bar with not a care in the world...and I'll start random conversations with strangers anywhere...but I honestly feel like all the qualities that I feel confident in just don't make much difference to women...so on one hand, I know I'm the f'in sh*t and am not afraid to attention whore it up...but on the other hand, I'm thinking, 'so what...who cares...?' I have never associated my attention whoring with dating...

 

Could you respond to my posts? I'd be curious to hear your take, since I've put a fair amount of time into giving you some honest advice and insight in this thread.

 

I agree that you struggle with inner confidence. Honestly, while I admire your healthy lifestyle, I think your weight-lifting is a bit of an obsession that you use as an outlet to build your self esteem when you really should be repairing deeper qualities. This falls in line with what you wrote above about having confidence because of your attention whoring, and also what I mentioned about you valuing surface qualities. Singing karaoke, and "attenting whoring it up" is a SUPERFICIAL form of confidence. You need to work deeper.

[Green]

I meant to edit and add to this, but it was too late...

 

To give you an example of what I mean...Halloween weekend...I spent the entire Friday and Saturday nights with no shirt on (per the costume)...but I also had no intention of hitting on any women or trying to attract them...my friend who I was with kept telling me how women were staring me down whenever we passed by them...I told him he was full of sh*t and went about my evening...it was still a good time...

 

halloween is a good single mans holiday. heck I enjoyed it a lot even with a gf these past 2 years

[northern_sky]

Hokie, if anything attention-whoring displays the opposite of deep confidence because it requires an audience, which = external validation. I hope you recgonize that.

[threebyfate]

BAM. There's your contradiction.

 

It's not true "confidence" if your pride in it or value of it is dependent on who your audience is, or how they perceive it. No matter what it is, who's looking at it, what body parts they own, what time of day it is. Confidence is universal.

 

What it comes down to is trust in yourself. That what you think matters should matter to, or should at least be respected by, anyone that is worth your time.

Bang on! Are you listening, Hokie?

[denise_xo]

You might be right here...but I'm not sure exactly how...there are some things I have 100% confidence in...I'll run around the entire city of DC in just a little pair of shorts...and shoes...and I'll do my fully choreographed songs at the karaoke bar with not a care in the world...and I'll start random conversations with strangers anywhere...but I honestly feel like all the qualities that I feel confident in just don't make much difference to women...so on one hand, I know I'm the f'in sh*t and am not afraid to attention whore it up...but on the other hand, I'm thinking, 'so what...who cares...?' I have never associated my attention whoring with dating...

 

Hokie, it's good to have self-awareness and a desire to improve yourself and all that, but I say you're over thinking this. There are so many people out there and not everyone is each other's match and for most it takes a bit of time and a fair amount of trial and error before you meet someone who's good for you. It's annoying, but that's life. Give yourself some slack. Whatever qualities you have that you're confident in have already made a difference to some women because you've had relationships and you have dated. It's very likely to happen again. Chill out a bit

[USMCHokie]

Could you respond to my posts? I'd be curious to hear your take, since I've put a fair amount of time into giving you some honest advice and insight in this thread.

 

Sorry sorry, I'm working as fast as I can... :laugh:

 

 

I agree that you struggle with inner confidence. Honestly, while I admire your healthy lifestyle, I think your weight-lifting is a bit of an obsession that you use as an outlet to build your self esteem when you really should be repairing deeper qualities. This falls in line with what you wrote above about having confidence because of your attention whoring, and also what I mentioned about you valuing surface qualities. Singing karaoke, and "attenting whoring it up" is a SUPERFICIAL form of confidence. You need to work deeper.

 

I absolutely agree with you...I will admit that my "confidence" is based almost completely on the body...when I was younger and didn't have it, I was still smart and caring, but people didn't notice me until I started getting the body...so of course I associated all the attention with my physical appearance...and so I focused my energy on maintaining the physique in order to build that "confidence" which seemed to attract women...I was still the same guy underneath, but now I had a way to get women to be willing to learn about the rest of me...

[USMCHokie]

Hokie, if anything attention-whoring displays the opposite of deep confidence because it requires an audience, which = external validation. I hope you recgonize that.

 

I starting to now...

[USMCHokie]

So rationally I know I'm a catch but that early programming can still bite me sometimes. So I have to keep reminding myself and try to retrain the brain to see myself as I really am. Which is one cool dude who has his s*** together and a lot to offer any woman. It's about controlling that self talk and the negative voices when they pop up.

 

This is good...and something a lot of my closest friends seem to always remind me...

[sumdude]

I absolutely agree with you...I will admit that my "confidence" is based almost completely on the body...when I was younger and didn't have it, I was still smart and caring, but people didn't notice me until I started getting the body...so of course I associated all the attention with my physical appearance...and so I focused my energy on maintaining the physique in order to build that "confidence" which seemed to attract women...I was still the same guy underneath, but now I had a way to get women to be willing to learn about the rest of me...

 

There's nothing wrong with that. You took proactive steps to increase your confidence and attractiveness. So you have that part of your life covered. Piece by piece you'll rebuild the rest of your self. You're still young and the fact that you are self aware enough to recognize your weaknesses will serve you well.

[northern_sky]

 

This assumes his feelings are superficial. They're very real. He just invests too much too quickly, for his own good.

 

Hokie said it himself (look back to his original post): his attachment is based more on the woman's attention and interest than anything about the specific woman, especially because he often gets attached before he even knows the woman that well. That is the definition of what I consider superficial feelings. They are deep in the sense that they arise from a deep need in him to be loved, but they are not deeply attached to the specifics of the woman to whom they're directed.

Edited November 5, 2010 by northern_sky

[johan]

Sometimes people don't realize how much an out-of-control ego plays into these things. If you take yourself too seriously, you have little stomach for rejection. While feeling fear and insecurity are definitely issues, if you find yourself seeking ego-stroking compliments and avoiding any risk of harm to your ego then you're going to have to deal with that as well.

[xpaperxcutx]

You remind me of someone with muscle dysmorphia. It's similar to an eating disorder, except instead of wanting to be skinny, you're preoccupied with changing your phyiscal appearance by working out and looking big.

[Star Gazer]

I strongly believe you learn more about somebody from reading between the lines rather than taking their personal accounts at face value. Even in your online banter I could detect some of the problems I'm now describing. Nothing that he posted about in this thread came as a surprise to me; it was totally in line with my impression.

 

Sorry Shadow, but you have no clue about "us" and can take very little away from the 's you saw us give each other here. There is much more to a person/relationship than what you see. He is not as simple as you make him out to be, neither is our relationship.

[Star Gazer]

Hokie said it himself (look back to his original post): his attachment is based more on the woman's attention and interest than anything about the specific woman, especially because he often gets attached before he even knows the woman that well. That is the definition of what I consider superficial feelings. They are deep in the sense that they arise from a deep need in him to be loved, but they are not deeply attached to the specifics of the woman to whom they're directed.

 

He clarified his OP later in the thread on this very issue. You're cherry picking