"The Grass Is Greener" Syndrome

[TheHurtProcess]

Hi,

 

Around 4 months ago my ex & I broke up. She was 17 & I am 18.

(She ended the relationship)

 

The way things ended is a lot like what you explained about 'G.I.G.S', though the whole idea of things just seems rather stupid & hypocritical.

 

There is always going to be things that are better then the relationship you're in. Leaving someone so you can 'experience' all these things is just thoughtless & selfish.

 

Any problem can be worked on if you're willing to actually do something about it & yes I know there are the certain occasions were things just aren't meant to be, but atleast if something was attempted both sides will more then likely be able to come to the conclusion that ending it would be for the best - which is why communication is key to any relationship.

 

I know I made some pretty stupid mistakes at times, but we all do. I never did anything that was that big of a deal.

 

I also know that I was a bit of a pussy at times but it was my first long term relationship, I was slowly learning how I should/shouldn't be acting & what I should/shouldn't be taking from her.

 

Though this doesn't excuse her for what she did, sorry. She left me 3 days after my brother had died to 'tend' to her own selfish needs, aka she went and did things with some other guy.

 

And also, before anyone says that I'm being bitter, I'm not. I'm almost over her & I think the only thing that is holding me back is that I don't feel like I will ever really be able to connect with someone else. I'm only young though & still need time to heal so I'm assuming this is the cause of that.

 

Well, to be honest, you are rather young and you're going to probably go through at least a couple if not several more breakups until you actually find someone you see as your supposed "soul mate", "the one" or whatever superstitious label you'd like to call it.

 

The reason I know this is because I'm about 10 years older than you (I'm 28 going on 29 in a month) and I've gone though at least five or so relationships in the past 10 or so years and with it comes the breakups.

 

I'm not trying to downplay your experience, your pain or your feelings/emotions in the least my friend. I've just been through it and I know what you can most likely expect to look forward to. Just enjoy what you have while it lasts. I'm not saying that it won't last but, don't beat yourself up over one single person/relationship because there's always someone a hundred times better out there waiting for you to scoop them off their feet. Trust me bud!

[LelouchIsZero]

Well, to be honest, you are rather young and you're going to probably go through at least a couple if not several more breakups until you actually find someone you see as your supposed "soul mate", "the one" or whatever superstitious label you'd like to call it.

 

The reason I know this is because I'm about 10 years older than you (I'm 28 going on 29 in a month) and I've gone though at least five or so relationships in the past 10 or so years and with it comes the breakups.

 

I'm not trying to downplay your experience, your pain or your feelings/emotions in the least my friend. I've just been through it and I know what you can most likely expect to look forward to. Just enjoy what you have while it lasts. I'm not saying that it won't last but, don't beat yourself up over one single person/relationship because there's always someone a hundred times better out there waiting for you to scoop them off their feet. Trust me bud!

 

Haha, I don't particularly believe in those types of things (a 'Soulmate' or 'The one'). There are many possible entities who could be right for me.

 

At the moment I've kinda had a lack of appetite in regards to wanting to be with another girl, though I'm not completely sure why.

 

It was a good learning experience, I guess. I will definitely learn from my mistakes, which will hopefully make my next partner a very lucky/happy person.

 

Regardless of my faults, I tried to be the best boyfriend I could possibly be, so I'm definitely not going to beat myself up over things. Her mistake, not mine.

 

Thanks for the advice & etc .

[vlg560]

For those of you who have been cheated on or had your ex jump into a rebound relationship quickly after the breakup by people that have G.I.G.S.

 

Now for all of you people that had your ex either cheat on you due to G.I.G.S. or enter into an overnight rebound relationship, I have a message for you and I want you to think about it. Does it really matter? In my opinion, no it does not. Now you have to understand, this is coming from a person that has never cheated ever. I obviously am against it and believe it is very selfish and hurtful to do that to someone you care about.

 

Had I not been lucky and taken steps early on, there is no doubt in my mind I would have put / forced my ex into a situation where cheating on me was going to be the enviable outcome.

 

How can I say that?

 

I was once in a relationship (5 years) and I started to experience G.I.G.S. It was the hardest thing I had to do, breaking up with someone that I loved and cared about. She was and still is amazing (married to a wonderful guy and is very blessed and happy). We still catch up every couple of years and she still tells me I was a complete moron (in a nice way) but she understood I had to go out there and do and see whatever it was I thought I needed to experience Note - To this day, I still don’t know why or what I was looking for. It wasn’t necessarily to date other people, although that was a part of it mind you, but it was more than that… something was missing in me, not her.

 

Now had I stayed in that relationship out of a sense of loyalty or by not wanting to hurt her, which most people do. I would have grown to ultimately resent her by no fault of her doing. Our relationship would have suffered greatly and if someone (who eventually does) came around… I would have most likely self-destructed or sabotaged it for the simple fact that I was unable to do what needed to be done the correct way. That is right, I would have done what a lot of your ex’s did to you, cheat. Again this is coming from someone who despises cheaters (I have had it done to me several times).

 

We all know how it starts… I would have started off talking to someone else, thinking I was out of love, thinking I was missing out and be full blown in the honeymoon phase. It would have been emotional cheating at first and then at some point turn into a physical relationship. I would have either ended or self-destructed to the point the person I was dating would have been forced to end it for me. Therefore giving me that ability to pursue my new G.I.G.S. relationship.

 

I truly believe you are 100% honest with yourself, you will see that you too are susceptible, if not guilty, of doing the same very thing that your ex just did to you. If not, then haven’t lived long enough, suffered from G.I.G.S yourself or you are choosing to lie to yourself to feel “better” about being cheated on.

 

Look in the LS forums, It takes some MAJOR guts and courage to end a relationship when needed. I bet it’s 1 out of 100 that do it at the right way and at the right time. Most people here who were cheated on by their ex, have at least the very least emotionally cheated on someone you once dated and whom you needed to break up with.

 

So what I am asking is to cut the quick rebound / cheater a break, or at least a little one. Why should you?

 

I am willing to bet that you sensed or saw a problem in the relationship long before your ex cheated on you. I am also willing to bet that you also did everything in your power (guilt them, convince them, plead with them, etc.) to keep them around based solely your need / desire to not have to go through the pain and loss of a breakup. In a sense, you are guilty of the same very thing you are angry with your ex about. By not taking into account their feelings or the impact it would have on them and by doing everything you could to get them to stay when you know they should have been free to go. It was about you, not them. Make Sense?

 

If you want my opinion from what I have seen through countless friends and family members, even though you might have been cheated on due to G.I.G.S, it does not me there isn’t a chance for reconciliation.

 

If you can get to the point that you REALISE that due to G.I.G.S., your ex simply cheated on you due to them not possessing the courage and strength that is required (if we are completely honest, I am willing to bet most of us don’t have this ability either) to end things the proper way either out of a sense of loyalty or their desire to not hurt you. If you can understand and come to terms with this, you will be well on your way to healing and forgiveness. Which in turn will give you the best chance if / when they return.

 

I am sure other G.I.G.S dumpers will post within this thread... So keep reading through the thread to hear and learn more what goes through the mind of the G.I.G.S. dumper!

 

 

Question:

 

So if my ef GF cheated and broke up with me because she had G.I.G.S, should I give her a chance if she wanted to get back together?

[horizzon]

Can someone tell me if this applies to my situation?

 

We broke up because he doesn't want marriage with kids. Yet i want marriage.

This is all in the future of course.

 

He is still in love with me.. and wants to be with me. This is what he said. Not my spin on oh he did this.. Nope straight answers.

 

In the past we were engaged. We broke up, and he realized some things about marriage that changed his mind. He wants to only have kids with me. But realizes that he CAN have it with others.

That's not a bad thing, because i said the same thing about marriage.

 

He is 22.

2 year relationship.

[wilsonx]

Question:

 

So if my ef GF cheated and broke up with me because she had G.I.G.S, should I give her a chance if she wanted to get back together?

 

The only person that can answer that question is you honestly. You have to do some deep soul searching and ask yourself can you truly forgive her.

[wilsonx]

Can someone tell me if this applies to my situation?

 

We broke up because he doesn't want marriage with kids. Yet i want marriage.

This is all in the future of course.

 

He is still in love with me.. and wants to be with me. This is what he said. Not my spin on oh he did this.. Nope straight answers.

 

In the past we were engaged. We broke up, and he realized some things about marriage that changed his mind. He wants to only have kids with me. But realizes that he CAN have it with others.

That's not a bad thing, because i said the same thing about marriage.

 

He is 22.

2 year relationship.

 

I wouldn't say this is GIGS. You all broke up because you both had different goals and wants in life. It happens

[Casablanca]

Question:

 

So if my ef GF cheated and broke up with me because she had G.I.G.S, should I give her a chance if she wanted to get back together?

As said, that is totally up to you...you are taking a big risk...a risk my ex wasnt willing to take when I told her I wanted to date her again...but I didnt cheat, I just dumped her for what I thought was greener pastures

 

I've never had anyone cheat on me, so it is easy to say I would never take them back once that trust had been broke, BUT when you love someone, it isn't always easy to let go so I dont know how I would react...how did you find she cheated on you?

 

If someone cheated on me and confessed it, I'd probably be more willing to stay with them than if I found on on my own or through a friend

 

I do believe almost everyone deserves a second chance...but cheating can be an exception...why did she cheat on you (if you know)?

[vlg560]

As said, that is totally up to you...you are taking a big risk...a risk my ex wasnt willing to take when I told her I wanted to date her again...but I didnt cheat, I just dumped her for what I thought was greener pastures

 

I've never had anyone cheat on me, so it is easy to say I would never take them back once that trust had been broke, BUT when you love someone, it isn't always easy to let go so I dont know how I would react...how did you find she cheated on you?

 

If someone cheated on me and confessed it, I'd probably be more willing to stay with them than if I found on on my own or through a friend

 

I do believe almost everyone deserves a second chance...but cheating can be an exception...why did she cheat on you (if you know)?

 

 

Thanks for your responses WilsonX & Casablanca.

 

I know it would be risky and I will have to thoroughly think about it if it happens. I'm at 6 months NC now but still think about her as I do still love her. We had a great relationship for 2 years although I think she mirrored me a lot during the relationship. Se didn't really open up on her thoughts & was more of a quiet type of person.

 

To make a long story short, she became distant and changed to the point where I talked to her and she admitted that there is another guy. Her reason for seeing this other guy being she thinks he's fun to be with etc etc...She never even tried talking to me if she had a problem with me or our relationship. I was kinda shocked when she admitted, and I broke it off with her, stayed in contact for about a week and then went NC. Looks like a classic GIGS case to me....your thoughts guys?

[Casablanca]

Thanks for your responses WilsonX & Casablanca.

 

I know it would be risky and I will have to thoroughly think about it if it happens. I'm at 6 months NC now but still think about her as I do still love her. We had a great relationship for 2 years although I think she mirrored me a lot during the relationship. Se didn't really open up on her thoughts & was more of a quiet type of person.

 

To make a long story short, she became distant and changed to the point where I talked to her and she admitted that there is another guy. Her reason for seeing this other guy being she thinks he's fun to be with etc etc...She never even tried talking to me if she had a problem with me or our relationship. I was kinda shocked when she admitted, and I broke it off with her, stayed in contact for about a week and then went NC. Looks like a classic GIGS case to me....your thoughts guys?

Well she did admit it and didnt try to make up a lie which is good....you still have feelings for her. How long has she been wanting to get back with you?

 

If you do get back together....try to start over, just a couple dates at first, nothing too physical, you should let the relationship rebuild and heal and not just to try and jump to where you two where before hand and see what happens.

[vlg560]

Well she did admit it and didnt try to make up a lie which is good....you still have feelings for her. How long has she been wanting to get back with you?

 

If you do get back together....try to start over, just a couple dates at first, nothing too physical, you should let the relationship rebuild and heal and not just to try and jump to where you two where before hand and see what happens.

 

Yes, I guess I should give her credit to admitting that she was cheating. She's been keeping in touch with me for the past week and I have been civil to her, and trying to be as nice as I can with a cautious attitude.

 

That is great advice on what I should do Casablanca, I will keep that in mind and will try not to bring up the past. I'll just take it a step at atime and see where it leads. Like I said, I am being quite cautious as this happens.

[wilsonx]

Look, as a guy that broke up with his ex because she cheated on him to later take her back, the resentment never goes away, even when you accept it.

 

It drains on you every day. I will suggest that the better advice be to move on but in the end its your life to live. For the next couple of months try to push her out of the picture and focus on yourself. I am pretty sure if you focus on yourself for a couple months, those feelings will go away =) Right now, you are in the position that I honestly dreaded being in and the ultimate reason why I did not break up with her again. Being the dumper and being unsure. In the end although I do regret not ending the relationship, it helped me actually see and is helping me move on faster that I would have made the right decision at the time and ended it.

[TheHurtProcess]

Look, as a guy that broke up with his ex because she cheated on him to later take her back, the resentment never goes away, even when you accept it.

 

It drains on you every day. I will suggest that the better advice be to move on but in the end its your life to live. For the next couple of months try to push her out of the picture and focus on yourself. I am pretty sure if you focus on yourself for a couple months, those feelings will go away =) Right now, you are in the position that I honestly dreaded being in and the ultimate reason why I did not break up with her again. Being the dumper and being unsure. In the end although I do regret not ending the relationship, it helped me actually see and is helping me move on faster that I would have made the right decision at the time and ended it.

 

I totally agree. Honestly, the fact that they cheated always sits in the back of your mind, because you know that history is totally capable of repeating and it definitely has a tendency of doing just that, as much as you wish that it didn't.

 

The same exact thing happened to me, several times and I gave her multiple chances. Each time she took advantage of my forgiveness. So, you now know why I'm totally backing Wilsonx's statements. He knows what he's talking about.

 

I totally wish that I had kicked her to the curb before she had the chance to abandon me. Oh well, I now have my chance since she's back again for another round

[HeartOfAPhoenix]

I totally wish that I had kicked her to the curb before she had the chance to abandon me. Oh well, I now have my chance since she's back again for another round

 

 

are you in high school? that is completely childish and YOU will be the one who is more hurt by the end result....

 

 

I can't force you to do anything, only give advice, but be the mature one and get out of this situation. The name, TheHurtProcess, is really suiting you right now because you are going through the process to hurt yourself ultimately.

 

 

Good Luck.

[wilsonx]

are you in high school? that is completely childish and YOU will be the one who is more hurt by the end result....

 

 

I can't force you to do anything, only give advice, but be the mature one and get out of this situation. The name, TheHurtProcess, is really suiting you right now because you are going through the process to hurt yourself ultimately.

 

 

Good Luck.

 

HAHA, couldnt have said it better myself

 

I totally agree. Honestly, the fact that they cheated always sits in the back of your mind, because you know that history is totally capable of repeating and it definitely has a tendency of doing just that, as much as you wish that it didn't.

 

The same exact thing happened to me, several times and I gave her multiple chances. Each time she took advantage of my forgiveness. So, you now know why I'm totally backing Wilsonx's statements. He knows what he's talking about.

 

I totally wish that I had kicked her to the curb before she had the chance to abandon me. Oh well, I now have my chance since she's back again for another round

 

Ok /facepalm

 

You know I wanted to text you earlier when I read this in your PM but I almost was in utter shock. I think your a good guy and all but are you a masochist? Read what you just gave someone else advice on. Now read that you agree with me on the advice. Now read the part that shes back again.

 

I seriously want to throw my laptop at you through the internet.

 

If you do not have any grasp on the future of your relationship, end it now. You are just a hookup buddy while she finds a new plan A. Thats it. Don't degrade yourself and be her puppet

Edited August 14, 2011 by wilsonx

[TheHurtProcess]

HAHA, couldnt have said it better myself

 

 

 

Ok /facepalm

 

You know I wanted to text you earlier when I read this in your PM but I almost was in utter shock. I think your a good guy and all but are you a masochist? Read what you just gave someone else advice on. Now read that you agree with me on the advice. Now read the part that shes back again.

 

I seriously want to throw my laptop at you through the internet.

 

If you do not have any grasp on the future of your relationship, end it now. You are just a hookup buddy while she finds a new plan A. Thats it. Don't degrade yourself and be her puppet

 

Trust me, I have this handled. I'm not getting involved emotionally one bit. We're not back together. This is just my chance to leave her with a taste of her own medicine.

[wilsonx]

Trust me, I have this handled. I'm not getting involved emotionally one bit. We're not back together. This is just my chance to leave her with a taste of her own medicine.

 

Of what medicine? The best way to give her a taste of her own medicine is to move on with your own life without her in it. Thats the key. If you end it guess what, it wont hurt her in the least. She will go to the same bar you hung out with her in and find someone else.

 

You cant fool me with the no emotions line. If there were no emotions involved you would not give her the time of day. I am probably a lot further along in the process of letting go then you and I STILL have emotions for my ex. The fact that you are going to give her a taste of her own medicine shows that you are not indifferent and that you still have feelings. Thats why its masochistic. Its a destructive decision... win/lose decision which will lead right back to hurt and to anger. You might think its a win because you get to end it but you actually still lose because you have yet to deal with the hurt anger that you STILL do have internally.

Edited August 14, 2011 by wilsonx

[sad&stresd]

is your friend taking the help of a doctor?

if so, can u tell me a part of what she was advised?

[TheHurtProcess]

You guys are completely 100% right.

 

This is exactly why we all come to this site... to hear the truth that we don't want to hear, that in which even our closest of friends are afraid to tell us.

 

If only I had a pocket version of LS or just Wilsonx and/or HeartOfAPhoenix (sort of like a Polly Pocket)... It'd be like a secondary conscience keep my a*s out of all the trouble I seem to get myself in.

 

This ends today... Let me at least have some fun ejecting her from my life permanently. You see, I can't even begin to count all the times that we all talk/dream about this type of moment (a moment of vengeance) happening and then when it actually/finally comes, you're met with hardcore opposition.

[antinko]

You guys are completely 100% right.

 

This is exactly why we all come to this site... to hear the truth that we don't want to hear, that in which even our closest of friends are afraid to tell us.

 

If only I had a pocket version of LS or just Wilsonx and/or HeartOfAPhoenix (sort of like a Polly Pocket)... It'd be like a secondary conscience keep my a*s out of all the trouble I seem to get myself in.

 

This ends today... Let me at least have some fun ejecting her from my life permanently. You see, I can't even begin to count all the times that we all talk/dream about this type of moment (a moment of vengeance) happening and then when it actually/finally comes, you're met with hardcore opposition.

 

Be the bigger person and simply end it cleanly. If you hurt her, you almost validate any mistreatment she gave you. Choose the light, not the dark...

[HeartOfAPhoenix]

Be the bigger person and simply end it cleanly. If you hurt her, you almost validate any mistreatment she gave you. Choose the light, not the dark...

 

 

^^^Agree

 

If you choose that dark path of vengeance that you crave right now, you may look back at how you took that path in the future and be completely embarrassed by how you approached this situation. I completely understand wanting revenge on your ex for kicking you in the dirt and not being there to relieve your pain. But all you will be doing with your vengeful tactics is give her the assurance that you are still suffering... hurting yourself not her.

 

Be a man, do the right thing no matter how you feel or what other obstacles appear.

[radishes]

My ex-boyfriend and I had dated for almost 4 years, when he told me very recently that he needs space, doesn't have room for a relationship, and doesn't feel for me anything other than a really good friend. We are still in college, and during the time we were dating, he was really unsatisfied with his grades. Every bad test grade made him unbelievably angry, and frustrated. He's also cried because he feels like all his efforts were going to waste. This lasted for about a year. But through the entire span of the relationship, we got along really well. We supported each other to the best of our abilities, and trusted each other fully. We hardly ever fought and then this summer break hit.

I'm not able to see him during summer break because we live in different cities, but we would usually talk every night, around midnight. He recently changed majors, and during this summer, he started meeting a lot of new friends, and started smoking, drinking, and partying again. And the occurances gradually increased. He used to not do any of that stuff, or in very small amounts, that I was okay with. He started calling less, but always apologized and felt bad. He told me suddenly on the phone one day that he's been thinking really hard about it, and he told me he just really needs to focus on himself right now. He said it wasn't that he wanted to date other people, he said he just wasn't into a relationship right now. He told me to move on, and I eventually pried it out of him, and got him to admit that he just didn't have the same feelings for me anymore, and he just saw me as a friend. He told me he just wasn't in love with me anymore.

He started crying on the phone, i wasn't sure why. And he told me he was drowning his sorrows with alcohol or something. I tried to have some hope, and messaged him, but he felt I was pressuring him, and throughout the whole thing, he just kept on saying that we needed space. He told me that I could still call him when i need to, and that he still wants to be my friend.

But obviously I can't do that right now, so I've been going NC. His best buddy told me that he thinks my ex made a horrible mistake, and he said he was being really stupid. His buddy told me he thought we were going to get married because we were really similar in a lot of ways, yet we had a lot of complementary traits.

 

I asked him if I could do anything differently, or fix anything. He was very adament in telling me that I was a great person, but its really not you, its me line. I asked him if there was any chance of us getting back together, he said if there was he would come after me. I asked him if he really wanted to be my friend, because I was pretty sure if he started dating again, his girlfriend wouldn't be okay with it, and he told me "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it". He said he's not thinking about it. We broke up, and I was respectful of what he needed and wanted. He said he needed time and space to figure things out and it would be okay if I dated other people.

 

I feel like he just doesn't know what he wants, but do you think NC will give him time to miss me? Or do you think he'll ever miss me? If his academics improved do you think he'll give it a second thought? If we resumed being friends, would he be able to see something different in me and feel a spark again? Should I just go ahead and move on? I realized some of the things we probably should have done differently. What do you think?

 

I totally understand that NC is a way for you to move on, and thats what I've been doing recently. I'm feeling better than before but it still is lingering there. He's just my first love and its really hard to let go. But I haven't talked to him, and I've been hanging out with people now, so in a slow way, I am moving forward.

 

Does this sound like the grass in greener syndrome? We are 20.

[wilsonx]

 

If only I had a pocket version of LS or just Wilsonx and/or HeartOfAPhoenix (sort of like a Polly Pocket)... It'd be like a secondary conscience keep my a*s out of all the trouble I seem to get myself in.

 

 

Every person on the planet as one of these, its called your instinct/intuition. Instead of ignoring it, use it. People do not need us. I'm pretty sure its been talking to you for a while, you just haven't been paying attention

[radishes]

Sounds like G.I.G.S. to me.

 

Read through this thread and also go have a look at the one below. I answer a lot of questions you might have...

 

Dumped by someone with G.I.G.S.? All your Questions are Answered within this thread!

i read it and I thought it was amazing but just from your opinion, do you think he'll feel something again? Although I'm gonna take this time to focus on myself, and grow, and let go, currently I'm thinking I would probably accept him again. But do you think he'll feel that again? he says he needs time to be independent and he says he hasn't been alone in a while. Thanks for all the advice and help

[wilsonx]

i read it and I thought it was amazing but just from your opinion, do you think he'll feel something again? Although I'm gonna take this time to focus on myself, and grow, and let go, currently I'm thinking I would probably accept him again. But do you think he'll feel that again? he says he needs time to be independent and he says he hasn't been alone in a while. Thanks for all the advice and help

 

I do not want to give anyone false hope and I am sorry you are going through this. At the same time, you should focus on yourself like you said, grow and let go. Right now, do not plan for the future because you do not know what is going to happen. If you plan on accepting him if he were to come back there are 2 things that will happen. You might miss "The One" waiting for him to come back. He might not ever come back and you will have wasted years of your life. No body but him can tell you if his feelings will change down the road.

 

On a side note, you guys have no concept of how jealous I am of you all that get the its not you, its me line. My psychopath ex decided exploding and blaming all my faults for the reason for her breaking up with me (lol) all of which happened umm last year was the better way out.

[radishes]

I do not want to give anyone false hope and I am sorry you are going through this. At the same time, you should focus on yourself like you said, grow and let go. Right now, do not plan for the future because you do not know what is going to happen. If you plan on accepting him if he were to come back there are 2 things that will happen. You might miss "The One" waiting for him to come back. He might not ever come back and you will have wasted years of your life. No body but him can tell you if his feelings will change down the road.

 

On a side note, you guys have no concept of how jealous I am of you all that get the its not you, its me line. My psychopath ex decided exploding and blaming all my faults for the reason for her breaking up with me (lol) all of which happened umm last year was the better way out.

I'm really sorry to hear that, but I'll definitely not be waiting patiently. If I do stumble across a guy that I'm attracted to in the time being, I'll definitely pursue it if its right.

 

I mean, its possible to let go of all this, and be free, and be me, but still maybe have feelings right? I guess, it becomes less of a need to be with, or a less of a want to have a certain outcome, then just me accepting the way I feel currently, and letting time take its course to help me move forward right? I don't plan on putting my life on hold or anything, so does this sound okay? I realize I'm young, and I don't have much experience, but does this sound like a reasonable, mature thing to do?