His Ex and Himself Still in Contact

[Kat]

The ex moved overseas a few months ago. This ties back with my partner going to lunch with her and then telling me afterwards 'so I wouldn't get angry' even though he knew I would.

 

Anyway it was his birthday today and she sent an sms from overseas.

 

I can't help but feel like ****.

[NEONINK]

Wow. At least you got an acknowledgement of the birthday. That's more than I got. Sometimes all you can do is be grateful they remember you. It shows you are memorable and worthy and a great person.

[Kat]

Oh, sorry the ex being HIS ex....

 

My partners birthday today and got an sms from HIS ex who is overseas. Just before she went overseas he had lunch with her. We had a fight over it... I am sure there is a post about it

 

Sadly I am now sleeping on the couch. He got more sms's and made a big deal about me not reading them...

[befuddled11]

I missed your past post(s) about this. Why did he have lunch with her? What were the circumstances surrounding that? Did she invite him? What was it about? How long ago were they together? Was this an ex who was with him before you and he got together?

[Kat]

Originally posted by befuddled11

Why did he have lunch with her?

Because she was going overseas for two years and he wanted to say goodbye. He says they are friends so he doesn't see the problem.

What were the circumstances surrounding that?

He used to live interstate and came up here for a few months before going overseas. He asked me if I was okay with him seeing her (as she had asked to see him) and I thanked him for letting me know. I said that I would feel comfortable if I was there and he said he would love that. He can invite her over here and show her his house (he bought a new house etc). This happened and everything went without a hitch. Then a week later he went to lunch with her and didn't tell me until after. I even made him lunch that day to take to work

Did she invite him?

Yes

How long ago were they together?

Two years however for one year she was overseas.

 

Was this an ex who was with him before you and he got together?

Ex directly before me. There was about a 8-9mth gap between us

[befuddled11]

Okay, so she's going (or is there already) overseas for 2 years, and wanted to say 'goodbye' to him before she left. Well, that's weird to me. Wanting to "say goodbye" would indicate to me that she's been in contact with him over the past while. I mean, why would you want to say goodbye to someone you never see? Right?

 

If any of my exes were leaving the country for a couple of years, I wouldn't give a crap..and not because of any hard feelings between us, but why would I care? They're an ex. Exes do have lives.

 

How long have you been with him?

 

I just find it odd that just before she leaves for overseas for a couple of years, she wants to "say goodbye." Any reason to believe they've been in contact for some time prior to this?

 

What I'm saying is (and articulating poorly, I need some coffee here!).....if they haven't been maintaining any kind of contact over the past few months or year or during the time you and he have been together, why the need to say goodbye?....because her leaving wouldn't really be any different than how things had been...with them not seeing each other.

[Kat]

Thread about first visit

 

Could have sworn I made a post/thread about the lunch. However I have searched and found nothing.

[Kat]

Originally posted by befuddled11

Okay, so she's going (or is there already) overseas for 2 years, and wanted to say 'goodbye' to him before she left. Well, that's weird to me. Wanting to "say goodbye" would indicate to me that she's been in contact with him over the past while. I mean, why would you want to say goodbye to someone you never see? Right?

 

Pretty much the same thought process I have!

 

If any of my exes were leaving the country for a couple of years, I wouldn't give a crap..and not because of any hard feelings between us, but why would I care? They're an ex. Exes do have lives.

His excuse? They are friends and he likes both his ex's as they are 'good people'. Just because they are ex's doesn't mean he will stop talking to them. He litrally said that he would not give up his ex even if I asked. I said I wouldn't be stupid enough to ask him to choose, because I know the answer already.

How long have you been with him?

Just over 2 and a half years

I just find it odd that just before she leaves for overseas for a couple of years, she wants to "say goodbye." Any reason to believe they've been in contact for some time prior to this?

I know they chat. How often I have no idea, he doesn't tell me. It is all hush hush

What I'm saying is (and articulating poorly, I need some coffee here!).....if they haven't been maintaining any kind of contact over the past few months or year or during the time you and he have been together, why the need to say goodbye?....because her leaving wouldn't really be any different than how things had been...with them not seeing each other.

I have no idea.

[befuddled11]

Color me silly but I'm just one of those people who firmly believes that exes are exes for a reason....and I see no real point in maintaining any kind of a friendship....PARTICULARLY if I'm in a new / another relationship. To me, it's like not being able to let go of the past. It also seems disrespectful to the new person in one's life......especially if they have qualms about this continued friendship/relationship.

 

However, that being said.....it's been my experience that women are more likely NOT to maintain a friendship with an ex.....whereas, guys are more likely to do so. Wonder why that is? It's been my experience (note: this is just my opinion, I don't cite it as fact) that men get a bit of an ego boost by maintaining friendships with exes. And in the case where it was the guy who dumped the ex, if they can maintain a friendship, it makes him feel good about himself, like "see, I'm not such a bad guy, after all, she still wants to be friends."

 

I was once in a serious relationship with a guy who I came to find out was having contact with several exes.......going for lunch, going for a beer at the local pub, etc. He even had exes from highschool calling him up (especially when they'd heard he was divorced). The way he told me about this, it was in a rather arrogant, cocky manner......it was if he was telling me what a 'great guy' he was........that his exes still liked him, if only as friends. Funny thing though.....you can bet these same exes weren't making contact with him when he was married. Imagine that.

 

Now onto the subject of why a female ex would want to maintain contact with their ex-who-is-now-in-a-serious-longterm-relationship, I think it's crap. Maybe I'm oldfashioned, but I think it's pretty tacky and disrespectful for a gal to keep in contact with a guy who's involved. What the hell is the point? Move on already. Have respect for his girlfriend and his relationship. Surely there's another other people on the planet to have a friendship with. UNLESS of course the gal finds it more intriguing to know he's "taken".....and she has ulterior motives......and it's kind of a challenge for her to see if she can get him back.

 

I am someone who expects to be treated the way I'd treat others. I'd never in a million years make or maintain contact with an ex if he was in a relationship. That's a big personal no-no for me...so on that note, I'd be p*ssed at any ex of my guy who did so. I would likely make contact with her and tell her to grab some self respect and beat it. In fact, I did that once.....my boyfriend at the time, who I was in a somewhat long distance relationship with (though we saw each other monthly for 2-3 weeks at a time)...his ex from before me would often call him up. Sometimes she'd call him while I was visiting. She did this often. She knew about me. She acted like she was really happy that he was happy..and that she just wanted the best for him......that he and her were just friends....but she crossed the line when she was sending his children (little girls) "gifts" and stuff.....the girls were ages 3 and 5.....and they found it very confusing.....they still thought she was "his girlfriend"........it was then that I put my foot down and kindly but firmly told her to back the hell off and stop confusing his kids......Prior to this, it got to the point that if I was there staying at his place while visiting, she'd call to talk to him, he wouldn't be home, so she'd want to be all buddy buddy with me and shoot the breeze...which I thought was insane because I didn't feel like making "pals" with his ex. It seemed pointless to me. His oldest daughter still referred to her as "Daddy's girlfriend".....anyway, that's a long post of its own, and irrelevant now...

 

Your guy's desire to remain friends with exes.....and to meet for lunch? and not tell you about it? Why, because he knows it would upset you? So wait, it's better that you find out after the fact and then have to wonder WHY he was keeping it from you?

 

It's all kinda weird.

[Kat]

Originally posted by befuddled11

Your guy's desire to remain friends with exes.....and to meet for lunch? and not tell you about it? Why, because he knows it would upset you? So wait, it's better that you find out after the fact and then have to wonder WHY he was keeping it from you?

It's all kinda weird.

 

He told me that night but he said 'Oh and btw I should tell you now before you find out and get cranky with me I had lunch with **** today'. Sad thing was he actually sms'ed me while he was at lunch with her and didn't even mention it.

 

I am just sick of the lies and having him do so many things behind my back.

 

I don't know what to do sometimes.

 

It is 12:15am and I can't sleep....I am sleeping on the couch anyway

[befuddled11]

So what other things does he lie to you about? (lies by omission count, too).

 

How do you know she sms'ed him when she arrived overseas? Did he tell you or did you notice the msg?

 

How is your relationship otherwise? Do you feel you're becoming closer as a couple as time passes......both heading toward a similar goal (whatever that may be:marriage, etc)....or do you feel things are becoming less so?

 

How would he feel if the tables were turned and you were carrying on this way with an ex??

[Kat]

Originally posted by befuddled11

So what other things does he lie to you about? (lies by omission count, too).

I honestly don't think he lies. He just keeps certian information to try and not hurt me. It usually backfires. I don't think even even realises what he does.

How do you know she sms'ed him when she arrived overseas? Did he tell you or did you notice the msg?

It was his birthday today, I was driving him around and I asked him a question, he didn't respond I think I said it again and he said 'Sorry replying to sms's' I asked who had sent him a birthday sms and he said '*** from overseas and *** (other ex)'

 

I normally have to ask. He hardly ever gives this information freely

How is your relationship otherwise? Do you feel you're becoming closer as a couple as time passes......both heading toward a similar goal (whatever that may be:marriage, etc)....or do you feel things are becoming less so?

I believe we have a great relationship. Sadly the only thing we ever fight over is her. Oh I feel like I am going to cry..... I hate living like this....

How would he feel if the tables were turned and you were carrying on this way with an ex??

 

I have no idea, he says 'I trust you, I wouldn't mind what you did with who because I know you would never do anything' and leaves at that.

 

Sometime his 'logic' mindfram is extremely belittling and annoying. He seems to never show any emotion and makes me out to be the bad person because I get jealous.

[befuddled11]

Does this "overseas ex" know about YOU? Does she know that him and you live together? (or did you say you've met her?)

 

Do you think the other exes he remains in contact with know about you?

[Kat]

They are both aware of me.

 

I believe that she can't let go, my partner doesn't believe me and thinks I am just being paranoid he can't understand 'why you two just can't get along'

 

He blames me, she is perfect in his eyes and well... what can I do.

 

He told me in as many words that if I said it was her or me he would pick her. My heart broke right then and there and it hasn't healed. Today hasn't helped.. ahh tears coming back. I think I will try and make sunrise. I can't handle dreams right now.

[Curt]

I rarely even comment on stuff like this, but I have to jump in.

 

I think we've gotta separate issues here.

 

(1). The one issue is of HOW MUCH contact is reasonable to have with an ex.

 

(2). The other is one of HOW TO VIEW a partner's contact with an ex.

 

#1

 

I hope we are not assuming or saying straight out, that if any guy has friendship-type contact with his ex (no, not to the point of her giving gifts to his kids, etc.) that this is to be viewed as disrespectful to his current relationship. I just want us to be clear on that. People can break up in some circumstances when they see clearly that they just are at different places in their lives, and find that "it" just isn't best for either of them. That is not to say that they do not care for each other. The differences might just be irreconcilable. Hence they might still value each other as close friends, and at the same time know that a love relationship like they had would never work. Can we agree on that?

 

#2

 

I think Kat, that in your case, this is most important. I certainly don't think that all the contact they are having is cool. Nonetheless, I think that perhaps the frustration that you are feeling regarding their contact is threatening your relationship more than she is. Afterall, look at where she (ex) is geographically. I ask you, is she REALLY a threat?

 

Also, I just submit this for your approval or disapproval:

 

He has been avoiding the issue for sure to a point. I wonder however, how much of this might be to avoid major conflict as much as possible, that he figures within his own male logical-based mind that you both do not need in your relationship. Especially true if he sees the ex as no threat himself; she may be to him a mere good friend. Nothing more.

 

Dealing with the issue all the time might be very frustrating for him as well, if he feels no romantic desire for her.

 

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but, I do know that if I had a good friendship with an ex that I knew was no threat to a relationship which I wanted and loved very much, I would be troubled that my partner went all possessive (or whatever one might call it) when we (myself and the ex) just kept a close friendship together.

 

Whether she (the ex) wants more or not from him is going to be irrelevant when he is committed to you.

 

Do you feel that there are problems in your relationship, other than her? Or is she the centre of the whole dispute?

 

Curt

[befuddled11]

"He told me in as many words that if I said it was her or me he would pick her."

 

That's disturbing.

 

Now are you sure that maybe you didn't misinterpret his words? It's very easy for a lot of people to misinterpret a partner's words, particularly if there's some jealousy and insecurity there to start with.

 

If I were you, I'd want to be seeking some major clarification here. I'd want to know where you stood. If he states clearly that if he had to choose between you and her, he'd choose her, then you need to make tracks.

[moimeme]

I don't agree, Curt. First bad sign is that he contacts the ex without telling her. Dr. Phil isn't my guru, but some stuff he says makes perfect sense and one of his maxims boils down to don't do anything that you wouldn't feel comfortable having your partner watch. Anything kept secret is suspect, and that includes contacting the ex, sms messages, and secret lunches.

 

He litrally said that he would not give up his ex even if I asked. I said I wouldn't be stupid enough to ask him to choose, because I know the answer already.

 

And THAT is a huge warning sign, complete with large red flashing lights AND a siren.

[midori]

I think Curt's post is worth a re-read or two. I agree 100%.

 

Originally posted by Kat

I honestly don't think he lies. He just keeps certian information to try and not hurt me. It usually backfires. I don't think even even realises what he does.

 

I normally have to ask. He hardly ever gives this information freely

 

And why should he give you this information?

 

I think we've got a bit of a chicken-and-egg paradox going on here. If I'm remembering your situation correctly Kat, you have issues with bf's and cheating (an ex cheated on you, right?) such that you might even be hypersensitive about the situation. You're worried before it even happens, he thus hides contact with exes from you, but you're anxious about it happening and will ferret it out if it does, so the hiding it from you makes it look even worse in your eyes.

 

You've basically presented him with an unsavory choice: no contact with exes (which is problematic for reasons laid out by Curt), or no peace with you. He's trying, unsuccessfully, to navigate between those two things.

 

I'm not trying to be condescending to you Kat, because I recognize that you're genuinely upset over this, but I cannot figure out why you think it's your right to dictate who your bf communicates with in a general way. Or why you think he should volunteer who sms's him, who sends him emails, etc. In getting together with you he did not sign over a right to basic privacy -- did he?

 

I can anticipate what I think your response might be: "he knows I'm sensitive to this issue and he knows why. If he loved me he would accommodate me in this area and let me have some peace of mind about the exes." But I'd say that he shouldn't let your groundless fears dictate how he leads his life. You'd only be truly happy if he had zero contact with any ex (or any attractive woman for that matter?), and you think that since he won't promise you that he owes you access to his communications with his exes -- basically every exchange should be subjected to a Kat Scan, which will look suspiciously for any signs of impropriety, or impending impropriety, or a sign that somewhere in the back of the scheming ex's mind is a faint hope that he will want to get back together with her, at which point you will have the right to terminate all contact between them.

 

Imagine a slightly different scenario. Imagine you were with a man whose previous partner had proven to be untrustworthy, sleeping with random men who she didn't always even know. Consequently he was very very anxious about you even speaking to other men, any other men. You could understand why he was that way, but you wouldn't let it dominate you, would you? You'd have some patience for his anxiety but you'd remind him that you are not her, and he can't view your actions through the same warped lens that she created.

 

Sometime his 'logic' mindfram is extremely belittling and annoying. He seems to never show any emotion and makes me out to be the bad person because I get jealous.

 

Right now that sounds like an over-generalization. Do you really mean that he never shows emotions? Or do you mean that when you get into confrontations with him about your jealousy regrding his exes, he responds with rational and unemotional logic that makes your complaints seem irrational and childish?

 

We've all got our weak spots, wounds from past relationships, ways that we are just generally insecure. One of the greatest challenges of having a fulfilling, mature relationship with another person is owning our own weakness, being able to recongize and acknowledge them instead of trying to foist them onto our partners, pretending that they are the source, or that we have to pretend to be perfect in order to be acceptable to them. I'd say Kat, from what I know of what you've posted of your relationships with your parents, and your previous experiences with men, that you've got some rather big insecurities, and fear of abandonment. And hey, I don't blame you! You're pretty young and it sounds like you've already had to deal with a lot of hurtful behavior from people who should have done much better by you.

 

But your boyfriend is not one of them. If you can't recognize that he is a different sort of person than those who have hurt you in the past, then I don't see how you're going to be able to maintain a relationship with him. Do you?

[moimeme]

but I cannot figure out why you think it's your right to dictate who your bf communicates with in a general way. Or why you think he should volunteer who sms's him, who sends him emails, etc. In getting together with you he did not sign over a right to basic privacy -- did he?

 

I completely disagree. This isn't a matter of 'privacy' because it involves an ex. There is a whole different dynamic around any relationship with a previous sexual partner such that people ought to be honest with their current partners when they are in contact with former ones. Secrecy implies that something is going on that is untoward. His hiding it, for whatever reason, makes it that much worse. She may be insecure, but her insecurity will not be helped this way whatsoever. Rather, he should be one hundred per cent open with her about everything he does with the ex, and he certainly should not have had lunch with her in secret.

 

These two are living together; they are not just dating. That also changes the dynamic considerably. Perhaps if they were only dating, he'd have less obligation to be honest about his dealings with former gfs but now they are in a committed relationship, this behaviour is just wrong. I still keep in touch with one ex in particular; I would not dream of hiding that from anybody I was with; the very act of keeping something like that secret imbues it with some significance. Heck, I'd have them meet and I'd certainly not keep communication secret.

 

Absolute honesty and trust are crucial to relationships.

[midori]

Well, we can agree to disagree then. I don't think that being in a relationship makes one automatically privvy to one's partner's communications -- with anyone. If a partner has strayed in the past and trust is being re-built, that's an entirely different matter. But that's not the case. I wouldn't want to be with someone whom I couldn't implicitly trust, thus the moment I felt the need to look over his shoulder would be the moment I questioned what was going on in the relationship -- either he's untrustworthy, or I've got trust issues.

 

As for them living together, I don't see how that changes anything. Again, I wouldn't want to be with someone that I couldn't trust. I certainly wouldn't increase my dependency on them (co-habiting invariably means depending upon one another) if I didn't trust them, or didn't feel secure in the relationship. Why move in if there's a noticeable chance that six months down the road you'll be moving out? I remember Kat was very very eager to move into her bf's new house, and there was a while where it wasn't clear that she would be asked. If she has surged ahead in her relationship with a man she doesn't feel secure with, it's not surprising that she's having difficulty trusting him -- but that doesn't mean he's untrustworthy. And it doesn't mean that he should subject himself to her fear-driven scrutiny and censorship.

 

That's how I see it, but clearly not how Kat and others see it. Given the wide gap in perspective I'm probably not going to be of much use to Kat in this discussion, so I'll leave it at that.

 

Good luck, Kat. I hope you can sort it out.

[moimeme]

Well, Midori, it's kind of a chicken-and-egg thing. If I trusted someone, I would trust that that he would not feel the need to conceal communications with someone from me. If he is hiding communicaton with an ex, then that makes him untrustworthy, no? It's not the same IMHO as the guys who have a Playboy stashed in the basement because the partner thinks it's 'cheating'. You can't cheat or have inappropriate feelings for something inanimate, but you sure can for an ex. The very fact of concealment makes it an issue.

 

One who has nothing to hide should never fear scrutiny. On this matter, if I had an insecure partner, I'd expose everything to him until he understood that I was dealing with him completely honestly. That's what this guy should have done rather than hiding from her. He's made it much worse. Plus, that statement about giving her up in favour of the ex is enough to send anyone into worry.

[midori]

Originally posted by moimeme

Well, Midori, it's kind of a chicken-and-egg thing. If I trusted someone, I would trust that that he would not feel the need to conceal communications with someone from me. If he is hiding communicaton with an ex, then that makes him untrustworthy, no? It's not the same IMHO as the guys who have a Playboy stashed in the basement because the partner thinks it's 'cheating'. You can't cheat or have inappropriate feelings for something inanimate, but you sure can for an ex. The very fact of concealment makes it an issue.

 

Like I said, I simply don't agree with you on this. If he were concealing things from someone who had no big issues with jealousy or fear of being cheated on, you'd have to wonder why he was concealing it. Not so with Kat. I can easily see how her boyfriend could be having a perfectly innocuous exchange with an ex, but would prefer to not get into a fight about it and so hides it from Kat. Makes sense to me.

 

One who has nothing to hide should never fear scrutiny. On this matter, if I had an insecure partner, I'd expose everything to him until he understood that I was dealing with him completely honestly. That's what this guy should have done rather than hiding from her. He's made it much worse. Plus, that statement about giving her up in favour of the ex is enough to send anyone into worry.

 

Again, I disagree. That's not a logic I would apply in my own life. Your rationale doubtless is aligned with the way Kat is seeing it, and thus you are better able to address her in this than I am.

 

It's okay for us to disagree, moimeme. It doesn't make a bit of difference to Kat, and you're not going to convince me that your perspective on this is the only proper way to view it. I've said all I have to say, if what I've said makes sense to Kat, she'll let us know, and if not then she's got people here who see things the way she does and can advise her accordingly.

[moimeme]

you're not going to convince me that your perspective on this is the only proper way to view it

 

Not my intent. A chaqu'un son gout.

 

However, I don't think the prospects for this relationship are good and not because of her insecurity. It's not nearly as bad or obsessive as that of some others here. He's just not fully invested in that relationship. Sorry to say it, Kat, but I'm afraid that's the case.

[Kat]

Originally posted by Curt

 

#1. The one issue is of HOW MUCH contact is reasonable to have with an ex.

 

I hope we are not assuming or saying straight out, that if any guy has friendship-type contact with his ex (no, not to the point of her giving gifts to his kids, etc.) that this is to be viewed as disrespectful to his current relationship. I just want us to be clear on that. People can break up in some circumstances when they see clearly that they just are at different places in their lives, and find that "it" just isn't best for either of them. That is not to say that they do not care for each other. The differences might just be irreconcilable. Hence they might still value each other as close friends, and at the same time know that a love relationship like they had would never work. Can we agree on that?

 

My issue is not with the contact. However I won't lie and will say that I would feel a lot better knowing he had none. He has contact with both his ex's. One I don't have an issue with. He has never hid things from me about her, he talks about here as if she is 'just another friend, he doesn't filter any information about her. It is the most recent one I have an issue with because he lets her have control over out lives. We went to a wedding her partner nicked off and she lay against him fixing his tie and he let her then he got annoyed with me because I got upset, even when I explained that I was upset at what happened, not at him.

#2. The other is one of HOW TO VIEW a partner's contact with an ex.

 

I think Kat, that in your case, this is most important. I certainly don't think that all the contact they are having is cool. Nonetheless, I think that perhaps the frustration that you are feeling regarding their contact is threatening your relationship more than she is. Afterall, look at where she (ex) is geographically. I ask you, is she REALLY a threat?

I do consider her a threat. Any woman who my man picks over me no matter where she is, is a threat.

 

Also, I just submit this for your approval or disapproval:

 

He has been avoiding the issue for sure to a point. I wonder however, how much of this might be to avoid major conflict as much as possible, that he figures within his own male logical-based mind that you both do not need in your relationship. Especially true if he sees the ex as no threat himself; she may be to him a mere good friend. Nothing more.

He avoids the issue because he doesn't see there being an issue. That is a lot different to him seeing it as a way to avoid conflict.

Dealing with the issue all the time might be very frustrating for him as well, if he feels no romantic desire for her.

There are no issues until she comes into OUR lives.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but, I do know that if I had a good friendship with an ex that I knew was no threat to a relationship which I wanted and loved very much, I would be troubled that my partner went all possessive (or whatever one might call it) when we (myself and the ex) just kept a close friendship together.

Then I would ask you to help me. Not hide things from me, share things with me, accept it is a sensitive area and try and work with me accordingly. I don't want to blame anyone, I want help to get over this.

 

Whether she (the ex) wants more or not from him is going to be irrelevant when he is committed to you.

Why would he spend his life like this all for another woman?

Do you feel that there are problems in your relationship, other than her? Or is she the centre of the whole dispute?

We have little hissy fits here and there, but the majority of the large stuff is about her, or due to her.

[Kat]

Originally posted by befuddled11

That's disturbing.

 

Now are you sure that maybe you didn't misinterpret his words? It's very easy for a lot of people to misinterpret a partner's words, particularly if there's some jealousy and insecurity there to start with.

 

If I were you, I'd want to be seeking some major clarification here. I'd want to know where you stood. If he states clearly that if he had to choose between you and her, he'd choose her, then you need to make tracks.

 

I didn't misinterpret it no I wish I had.

 

I am not about to throw a relationship away due to that, however, I am not going to pretend like everything is okay