Have I damaged this friendship beyond repair?

[Teknoe]

Mercifully I have two or so true friends. They are the ones that are there for you no matter what. They will tell you the truth of a situation regardless of how it might damage your friendship. They don't tell you what you want to hear for their sake of maintaining the relationship, they tell you what you need to hear, even if you don't like it. They distance themselves from you when you ignore their advice and go off on some self destructive path but are always there to listen to you and help you come back from it. They always forgive past arguments and wrongs and know how to say they are sorry for their own short comings.

 

They always take some time to put you first at some point, just like any good relationship, it shouldn't always be about them or you, there should be equilibrium of give and give from both sides.

 

 

Amen. Yeah, if you can find yourself 2 or 3 really good friends, you're pretty blessed.

 

Just an update. Wow, I can't believe this thread will be hitting 15,000 views sometime this weekend. That is just INSANITY!

 

I'm doing SO MUCH better regarding E. I think my mind and heart has finally placed her in the past... she was a product of summer 2010, but not necessarily relevant today. I feel so much more peaceful. I find I'm not thinking of her much anymore... I guess it's also because I found some new female interests that have casually caught my eye. It's easy to forget someone when you're remembering somebody else which is ONLY good if you're single. Don't do that if you're in a relationship, God forbid a marriage!

 

Since I am single and E has long moved on, in fact she has had a BF for a while now, luckily I can remember somebody else, which really helps me to forget about her. Now when she enters my mind randomly, it's no longer with that "oh regrets" viewpoint. It's now "Ah, she was a nice friend" and that's it. I know God has a plan for her, a plan for me... and His plan just didn't involve me and her being together like that -- which is perfectly fine and cool by me... that only means, I like to believe at least, that He has somebody BETTER for me. Faith is a good thing

 

Tomorrow marks the 1 year anniversary that I confessed my feelings to A, and she rejected me. This was around the time E and I started to fizzle out. 1 year goes by fast. I am definitely happier now than I was a year ago

 

I doubt I will update in this thread again, as there isn't much left to say... unless E contacts me and I come back with a "We're back to semi-regular contact" but I doubt that will happen.

 

It's been a great time posting in here. It helped me to process my thoughts a lot as I aired 'em out to y'all here, my bunch of stranger e-acquaintances. Thank you for the 15K views, feedback and prayers (if you did). Farewell A. Farewell E. It's been good, but I'm officially moving on. Wish you two the very best, but I'm done wasting time making someone a priority who sees me as disposable.

 

In closing, Madea said it best.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBI4Bh2z9W8

 

 

@ visualbasicide, those 2-3 good friends are like roots, just like Madea said

 

sometimes it's just healthy to LET FOLKS GO!

 

French, maybe you can make a similar decree along with me. LET HIM GO.

 

A, I officially release you, all negative memories and bondage from my life.

 

E, I officially release you, all negative memories and bondage from my life.

 

From now on, no more regrets, no more reminiscing, no more replaying. God's taken me here and He will take me to the next place I need to go. I'm content and finally at peace -- been set free from the past.

 

Farewell A and E.

[Teknoe]

One last update. Recently I felt compelled to email E and see how she's doing/bless her with a note of appreciation. I wasn't going to do it, but I felt really led to do so. Therefore, I swallowed my pride and made myself vulnerable one last time, but with the peace knowing if she doesn't respond it's all right. It's all right. I know she'd have read it, and I can truly move on. She hasn't responded, and it's all right. I have no regrets and am glad to have sent her this final email. It was a form of closure to me. Well, if she replied and was mutually interested in the friendship again I would have been opened... but since she hasn't I'm going to stop here and chalk it up as a permanent memory fading away slowly as the years go on.

 

I feel really peaceful right now. Like you would not believe. Despite her not responding to my email below, I have such a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.

 

---

 

Hey E,

How was your summer? It's been a while, and I hope all is well. I recently ordered the book Just Do Something, and you came to mind as it was a recommendation you gave me earlier this year. I look forward to reading it. My summer went well. Stayed close to home mainly, but I taught a bunch of classes, went to Yosemite with friends, which was a crazy experience. My first night there I dreamt a demon was attacking me. Meanwhile, same night same time... a friend dreamt she was casting demons out of our cabins... crazy right?! My faith definitely increased after that insane weekend. I now have first hand knowledge of the dark forces roaming in the spiritual realm. More importantly I learned to call on Jesus' name whenever terror strikes. Darkness truly DOES flee at the mention of His mighty name. Oh, and on a brighter note, I went skydiving!

 

Hope Church is going well. I served in the children's ministry for the summer, so I've been getting plugged in quite well. Love my growth group.

 

Last weekend was 9/10/11.... it marked one year since the infamous A confession... and 9/10/11 I also attended the wedding of J... my first Christian crush. Needless to say, it was an interesting day that had me looking back to see where I am to understand where I hope to go.

 

Finally, praise God, I start working more soon. So hopefully with some exposure doors will open and lead to a full time position. Trusting and knowing that God's will will be done.

 

I'm happy you seem to be happy and at peace these days. I know when you were at Hope Church there was always this side of you that didn't feel quite at home. I saw through FB you now own a dog. It looks like you've found a good church community too. Once in a while something will happen to make me reminisce back to our Hope Church + dinner hang-outs a couple summers ago, and selfishly, part of me misses those care-free summer days hanging out, but I know God's taken us in different church directions. I hope you continue to find happiness wherever God takes you. You definitely taught me a lot throughout our friendship and if I never thanked you formally for that before, thank you. I didn't expect to get so sappy but you know me

 

Blessings,

T

[Teknoe]

wow. she responded tonight to my email. it was very long and private, so i won't post the intimate details here, but here is part of what she wrote

 

----

 

hi T,

 

looking back, summer felt like a blur. a lot was happening, and I feel like I've just started to sit down and process it now. I had moved out and started living with a friend from church....

 

[snip]

 

this is getting long. i also wanted to thank you for your friendship and for the fun times of hanging out last summer. i've also been reflecting since about a year ago was when i was just starting to go to my church, be having stupid boy issues, and just so much has changed - in both of our lives. hope to hear from you soon!

 

 

Sincerely,

E

 

---

 

How do I feel about all this? Well, kind of blown away. It was her first time really communicating with me, and the email was VERY long and VERY intimate. "Hope to hear from you soon!" seems to be a clear indicator that she's open to having our friendship continue -- at least on some level.

 

I'll probably take a few days to let her email content sink in, and then reply. It's nice to know she doesn't hate me or want me out of her life. I'm so thankful I did not send her that draft I wrote where I was going to get antsy and ask her all these emotional questions like "What did I do to have you ignore me so much?" etc.

 

Sometimes people don't mean to forget you, and life gets crazy. They don't hate you. Just, life gets hectic. Good reminder to always keep your cool... I could have come off looking like a real insecure jerk. Sometimes it's wiser to share your sentiments with a 3rd party friend, rather than to the person directly!

[heididora.us]

so lately my friend has been doing stuff behind my back and its really annoying me, an then when i confront her about it she lies to my face?

[Teknoe]

so lately my friend has been doing stuff behind my back and its really annoying me, an then when i confront her about it she lies to my face?

 

That's not a friend then.

 

Either find a way to work it out, or drop her.

 

Life's too short to have that kind of mess in your life.

[Teknoe]

Whoa... so... E and I are meeting up for drinks/dinner next Wednesday!

 

This is how it happened just now...

 

 

12:18 PM trust me, you aren't the only one suffering and rejected, i have stories of my own

if you're free sometime this month, we can meet up and i can tell you in person

12:19 PM E: sure

like recent stories?

me: yeah

one late last night in fact

LOL

what day works best for you?

my friend broke the 'news' to me

and i felt crushed, lol

i thought i could handle it, but it was tougher than i expected when it was addressed

E: news?

hmmm

probably a wednesday or thursday works best

12:24 PM me: wednesdays i get out of work at 7, thursdays i'm free after 5

lemme know your preference

12:25 PM E: hmmmm ok

do any lunch days work for u?

me: yah

E: or actually evenings are fine too

me: lunch hour works too

E: lets shoot for a wednesday then

wednesday after 7

me: oct. 19?

12:26 PM E: hmmmmmmmm

that works

how about meeting in this town named ____

me: that works

thanks for driving up

my work is in ____ too

so it's nice for me, thanks =P

12:28 PM E: haha

i'm driving down remember

me: oh yes

well, you know me and direction, lol

E: haha

me: up, down, just show up

12:29 PM ok oct. 19 wednesday let's say 7:15

where do you want to meet?

12:31 PM E: i haven't decided yet

i'll let you know

me: alrighty

E: i'll give you a choice of 3 places

by sometime this weekend

me: i feel like i'm back in school

multiple choice, lol

 

---

 

from no contact to one long email to meeting up.

 

Life works funny sometimes. Trying not to read into it more than what it is, but needless to say I'm pretty excited.

 

BTW, I can be so dramatic. Not too long ago I was saying goodbye to E, and now, I'm saying hello all over again. Goes to show you... life is unpredictable!

[Teknoe]

Just a quick update: we did not go out together last night as scheduled. She emailed me this early Tuesday afternoon

 

---

 

by any chance could we reschedule tihs wednesday?

i have a ton of things for grad apps to finish up this week ><

so any time after this week works a ton better

 

---

 

note my reply:

 

Yeah that's cool. It works out better this way, coz tomorrow I start working ________, so it will be quite an intense day! I might pass out if we met up, lol.

 

As for my schedule next week, Tuesday night 10/25 after 7:30 works (my growth group is off). Thursday evening 10/27 works as well.

 

Good luck on your grad apps!

 

---

 

her reply:

 

Next Tuesday might work -- I'll check if I have worship practice. A Sunday evening could possibly work at some time too. We'll figure something out. thanks for understanding!

 

---

 

my reply:

 

Yah, Sunday evenings generally work for me too.

Yeah no worries, it's important to take care of your school business first.

 

---

 

reason why I posted this is because so many guys may get antsy and selfish at this point. It's wiser to be gentle, selfLESS and thinking more of the girl's needs.

 

I could have blown up at her (as some guys would do), but I ain't a jerk. I do want her to take care of her school biz first.

 

Guys, please take note. Please think of the girls before you think of your selfish wants. And please treat them like human beings, not pieces of meat to be a notch on your belt. Be patient, and let them come to you.

[nisni90]

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Edited October 29, 2011 by nisni90

[gaius]

reason why I posted this is because so many guys may get antsy and selfish at this point. It's wiser to be gentle, selfLESS and thinking more of the girl's needs.

 

I could have blown up at her (as some guys would do), but I ain't a jerk. I do want her to take care of her school biz first.

 

Guys, please take note. Please think of the girls before you think of your selfish wants. And please treat them like human beings, not pieces of meat to be a notch on your belt. Be patient, and let them come to you.

You seem like a nice guy Teknoe, but you were wondering in an earlier post why other guys get second chances with women and you don't. This right here is why. She totally blew you off and you responded by opening up your schedule and letting her pick the time, day or night that you will see her. You responded to disrespect with affection and submissiveness. By doing this you're saying you do not wish to be respected, and women value and want to sleep with men they respect.

 

Let's be honest here, you say you want to be her friend but no guy puts this amount of mental energy into a girl they just want to be friends with. You're hoping that by being super submissive you will somehow win her over and it's just not going to happen. Ever. It didn't work the first time when she ran off with that other guy and forgot about you so why do you think it will work now? As Einstein said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

If you really are content with getting her emotional scraps when she's in between relationships, and being forgotten when she meets someone new that's fine. But don't hope that someday she will wake up and start valuing you more then she does now. It doesn't work like that.

[Teknoe]

Well, I see where you're coming from.

 

I emailed her yesterday and suggested we meet up next Wednesday if she's available. We'll see.

[FredRutherford]

We met Summer 2010. She was single, so was I. We used to go to church together and get 1 on 1 dinner afterward. Not really a date as we always went dutch, but we got along so well and I always enjoyed her company. Vice versa, I like to think.

 

....

Oh, and we never really flirted. We were just two really good, wholesome friends. Our first meeting was a Saturday late afternoon church service and we went out to dinner 1 on 1 afterward. This happened 3 or 4 times last summer. We had also movie outings and of course, the almost daily 2 hour GChat night sessions..

 

Tek,

You two were really dating. No one had made it "official" yet.

 

In hindsight, if I was more forward with her early on in the friendship (i.e. asking her on dates and not just hang outs)

I think we might have had a pretty good BF-GF relationship. But, I know things happen for a reason.

 

Yes, you've learned from this.

Don't settle in the future for "just being a friend."

It's nearly impossible as one of the two will always have stronger feelings.

I just feel bad because I lost out on her romantically, and now, also lost out on her as a friend (seemingly).

 

I never had the "close-calls" male-female relationships you have had.

I usually gave up when sensed I didn't get strong signals or sensed lack of interest.

 

Like many other guys, was pretty much a loner most of my 20s (yup, big mistake), though I dated but didn't do well at it. Wish I had such female friends, as could have helped me feel more comfortable interacting with them.

Didn't meet my love until my early 30s..

 

 

Next girl, I'd recommend trying to take it to the next level, like trying to hug or kiss her.

A risk, to be sure, but considering all you've gone through with other women who "only wanted to be friends," what could you lose trying to move it to the next level?

Edited November 17, 2011 by FredRutherford

[Teknoe]

Thanks for chiming in, Fred.

 

Quick update: after a few failed retrys, it's kinda faded away -- the meet-up. Nights she was free, I wasn't, and vice versa. Got to a point where the "momentum" of the reconnect was lost and things are back to status quo.

 

I didn't attack or get mean on her or anything though. We briefly chatted a couple days ago, I was just asking how she's been, but didn't force the issue (i.e. so, when do you want to meet up?). I might email her in a couple weeks for a retry rain check, give it one more shot for 2011.

 

Ironically enough, the other girl I liked that was mentioned in this thread (Not E, not A)... I'm meeting up with her 1 on 1 tomorrow. It's for church related business... but this will be our 2nd 1 on 1 and it's at a coffee shop, so there will be ample room for eye contact (unlike our 1st meet up which was a 1 on 1 hike, where we both looked forward a lot more than we looked at each other)

 

Just going in tomorrow asking God to help give me the right attitude, not to overthink (as I usually do) but to just enjoy it for what it is, be light-hearted and relaxed.

 

I appreciate your tips Fred, but I'm just not a "grab the girl who isn't your GF and kiss her" kind of dude. Not anymore. That's how I rolled in 2004, but not today. I wish to respect the woman, some Christian women I know wish to save their first kiss for marriage. Who am I to potentially ruin that for some lady?

 

It's alright Fred. I trust God will open a door someway, somehow, if this be part of His will for my life. I also know I want a partner not just for my own pleasures, but I want to bless her and I want us together to bless our church and local community.

 

I know, I'm old-fashioned. But I gotta believe there's some lady out there just right for me. Hope is what sustains us

[FredRutherford]

Originally Posted by Teknoe

Just going in tomorrow asking God to help give me the right attitude, not to overthink (as I usually do) but to just enjoy it for what it is, be light-hearted and relaxed.

Good attitude. Try not to overthink things and get too worked-up about a gal.

Is this the one? Will I fail? What if I say the wrong thing?

I know all the thoughts single guys have, when they're often needless worries.

 

I appreciate your tips Fred, but I'm just not a "grab the girl who isn't your GF and kiss her" kind of dude. Not anymore.

Tek,

I would never advise you to do anything against your morals, or something that could offend a Christian lady.

 

It's just some guys inexperienced at dating get wrong ideas about what's "improper", like asking women out during the first meeting.

Some guys think that's "too soon" and they should wait and "get to know the woman" better first, only to get put in the friendzone.

 

In your dates (sorry, "meetings" or "get-togethers") with that woman you met for lunch after church and for movies.....

.....what do you think could have happened had you reached across the dinner table and held her hands (lightly)?

Am talking about a brief hand-holding, not a big kiss or make-out session.

Just holding her hands to show your appreciation and value toward her?

 

You think she would have screamed at you?

Got up and left?

 

Started considering things I could have done (like the above) that may have helped move relationships to where I wanted after reading great advice like this in a LS thread by ScottDMW:

 

Originally Posted by Scottdmw

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3548783&postcount=10

 

I did do some reading of the pickup artists and others who talk about “game”. I won't say that they have nothing useful to think about, but in general given my overall life philosophy I didn't find their thinking too useful. It may well work great for casual pickups and sex, but for finding the love of your life it may actually be counterproductive or at least not that useful.

 

They do have some useful ideas which I'll briefly describe.

You have to keep trying persistently. You have to approach a number of women.

 

The right amount of physical touch is good, not too much but definitely not too little either.

In Catholic circles here is the progression I use.

First date: 2-3 touches on the shoulder or arm.

If she's wearing a ring, hold her hand while “looking at the ring” for a minute and ask her about it.

Hug at the end.

 

Second date: set up an opportunity to put your arm around her for a while in a natural situation.

Kiss her at the end if she seems receptive.

Otherwise, kiss on the third date.

Continue to go forward from there as far as you feel you can in good conscience.

 

You have to approach a woman as a man, and not try to be her friend. Make your interest clear right away.

 

For example, a few weeks ago I met a woman at a church picnic.

I talked to her for 15 minutes and she seemed interested, so I asked if she would like to have coffee and got her number.

At the coffee date, I talked to her for 45 minutes and again she seemed interested, so I just told her point blank something along the lines of “hopefully it was clear this is a date. I'm interested in you. I think you are beautiful. You have probably already decided if you are interested in me. What do you think about me?” I didn't of course use that phrasing but that was the essence. She seemed to like this very well. We had a great second date the next week and are planning for a third date soon.

 

Notice that I did not try to be her friend, see how things develop, or wait to ask her out.

 

I have found that trying to be friends first or letting things develop rarely works for me, even in the most devout Catholic circles.

 

When you make a verbal move like that, it is key I think to do it with a sense of non-attachment to the outcome.

You are interested but not too much.

You would like to date her, but if she doesn't want to it's not a big deal.

You have to get to a place in your life where that's really true and you're not just putting on an act. That mental attitude more than the words you use is what makes it effective.

What Scott wrote is pure gold, Tek.

Just some light touching, like he explained.

Read the full thread for context.

 

Don't kid yourself. You were dating that woman, and she likely knew it.

Any woman spending that much time with a guy can't be that naive.

I think she was waiting for you to make the next move, like ask out for other dates, express some light physical interest, etc.

 

 

Originally Posted by Teknoe

I'm just not a "grab the girl who isn't your GF and kiss her" kind of dude. Not anymore.

That's how I rolled in 2004, but not today.

I wish to respect the woman, some Christian women I know wish to save their first kiss for marriage. Who am I to potentially ruin that for some lady?

That's admirable, Tek, and I understand your point of view, as I once was "stronger" in my faith and didn't want to do anything "too forward."

 

Most women will have been kissed sometime.

Though some you meet at your age may be virgins

(that would have been a bonus in my eyes:)), it's unrealistic to think a woman in her late 20s or 30s has little experience.

So kissing, which is comparatively innocent, shouldn't be a dealbreaker or something that might scare a woman off.

Do this only when it feels right and the occasion presents itself, so it feels natural and isn't forced.

 

Don't be afraid to do some light touching, like Scott recommended.

It's no guarantee, but with that woman you were dating, you could have moved it to the next level had you expressed some interest.

 

 

"Being friends" with them never works.

Don't know why, but women want their guy to initiate things.

 

Like you, I was too scared to initiate anything and may post a link to some incidents in dating that may have held me back.

If I'd done some of the things Scott recommended, may have had more than 4-5 single dates with 3-4 women (not GFs) in college and 3-5 dates with 2 women when I was 22-25...

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Teknoe

It's alright Fred. I trust God will open a door someway, somehow, if this be part of His will for my life. I also know I want a partner not just for my own pleasures, but I want to bless her and I want us together to bless our church and local community.

 

I know, I'm old-fashioned. But I gotta believe there's some lady out there just right for me. Hope is what sustains us

That's good to rely on God for that, but you have a role to play as well.

Didn't advise you doing anything immoral or getting involved in casual sex, but please consider the steps Scott & I advised.

Edited November 19, 2011 by FredRutherford

[Teknoe]

Fred,

Thanks, but I'm going to stick to my guns and conviction.

I also wanted to tell you that I will be leaving my Loveshack account for good. It's time for me to step away... more power to those who use this place effectively but I found I've invested way too much time and energy into this place to the point where it has become a hinderance in my own self-improvement. I also realized overanalyzing situations is never good, and even worse when done with internet strangers.

 

With the SD fiasco done and appropriately closed, I see this as a symbolic way to say good-bye and good luck to all.

 

Again, I don't think LS is a bad place, but like all things it can be misused and abused. I have fallen into doing that, so I bid you farewell and wish you the best.

 

Cheers,

Tek

[justin556]

One day i saw female at garden i catch her and started making funny face with her we angry from me .. i sang a song of love in hers ears he cause in love with me ..

 

 

That was love story real story...

[Teknoe]

I'm back after a hiatus.

 

Quick update, E and I haven't talked much since October 2011 when we planned to meet up, but something came up for her, we took a "rain check" and it never happened.

 

I sent her an email about 5 days ago, but she hasn't responded yet. Well, I guess it's over. I dunno why she can't just be straight with me. If she wants me out, she should come out and reply it to me.

 

But I guess I just have to move on finally. Summer 2010 was a long time ago. I think why I'm trying to hang on so much is, she was very close to being a girlfriend. If I pursued her in 2010, we probably would have been.

 

Alas, part of me probably laments that the stars never aligned for that to happen, so to speak, as I was obsessed with A summer 2010, and that ruined the chances of me and E.

 

90,000+ views, wow. This thread's been one heck of a ride.

[FredRutherford]

 

E and I haven't talked much since October 2011 when we planned to meet up, but something came up for her, we took a "rain check" and it never happened.

 

I sent her an email about 5 days ago, but she hasn't responded yet. Well, I guess it's over. I dunno why she can't just be straight with me. If she wants me out, she should come out and reply it to me.

 

But I guess I just have to move on finally. Summer 2010 was a long time ago.

 

I think why I'm trying to hang on so much is, she was very close to being a girlfriend. If I pursued her in 2010, we probably would have been.

.

 

Sounds like you learned a lesson there.

Being timid is never a good idea.

 

Speakin' from experience here.

 

You sitting on the sidelines afraid to make a move (dating, etc.), that allows the competition to make inroads.

 

If a woman interests you, start a conversation and interaction with the purpose of steering the conversation into asking her out for date.

Say you end up talking about something she's interested in.

Tell her, "I like that hobby too. I'd like to talk more about that with you over dinner this weekend. How about Friday night?" Or something like that.

 

That kind of invitation is a little harder for a woman to so easily and automatically reject.

 

That's what happened with the first "cold call" I ever made @27.

In grad school, saw a woman sitting in the chairs between classes at night. Something in me told me I needed to strike up conversation with her. Now or never, I thought.

So took my chance and got into conversation with her like above.

What is she studying?

What does she like about the field she's in? etc.

Focus the conversation on her.

 

Next thing you know, got a dinner date out of it and a 1.5 year relationship, which she ultimately ended but still, I got some experience and a lot of kissing and hugging... so not a total loss.

 

I saw the advice you gave another poster, a guy @30 who has problems dating, SomeDude.

You said you were a lot like him in the past.

Trust me, I was a lot like you in my 20s, thinking it would be "improper" to do certain things, like boldly asking a woman out on the first date, etc.

 

Fred,

Thanks, but I'm going to stick to my guns and conviction.

 

Tek,

Sticking to your convictions is fine, in terms of being a gentleman and not taking advantage of her sexually, only being out for sex, etc., which of course you're not that kind of guy and I wouldn't recommend you behave like that.

 

However, you do need to stand-up for yourself and take more chances.

Be more forward.

You gotta ask women out to get anywhere.

Ask women out you meet in church and other singles groups.

 

If one's ambivalent or not interested, like the woman you tried to date in this thread, no biggie. Just move on.

I considered myself a good guy and would have made a good catch for many a woman, many of whom wouldn't give me the time of day. Their loss that they couldn't see it.

 

 

Please read what I posted about ScottDMW's post I referenced above ---

re: the touching part in early dating. Subtle touching.

Perhaps you could think of ways to use such advice in other ways in your approaches to women.

 

Women pick up on those kind of things just like a guy can often sense when a woman is interested in him, by her subtle actions, her subtle touching, always being around him, etc. Amazing some guys can't see that.

 

Once sat next to a woman in a college class who was always striking up conversation with me.

Years later, it hit me how I could have asked her out.

A lonely single guy I was then and through my 20s, I was so blind.....

 

 

I think why I'm trying to hang on so much is, she was very close to being a girlfriend. If I pursued her in 2010, we probably would have been.

.

That may or may not have been true.

Her ambivalence isn't a good sign, so she may have flaked. Have read about women like this. I encountered/ tried to date some of them when I was in my mid-20s.

 

What's the problem here? I should've asked some of them when they made excuses on the phone when I TRIED to get another date.

"...I'm asking you for your time.

I'm a good guy who takes women on interesting dates.

This will be worthwhile.

This is your chance."

So many regrets. And one reason I can count the number of dates I had from 19-26 on 1-2 hands. (I finally awoke @26 and started being more forward and persistent in my dating).

 

 

In your case with Ms. Ambivalence, if you'd been a little more forward, you'd have been much closer to a real relationship.

 

And... she might not be dating someone else......

Edited February 2, 2012 by FredRutherford

[Teknoe]

Sounds like you learned a lesson there.

Being timid is never a good idea.

 

Speakin' from experience here.

 

You sitting on the sidelines afraid to make a move (dating, etc.), that allows the competition to make inroads.

 

I hear ya. The thing is, I always saw E as a relatively attractive girl. Not a gorgeous girl, but plenty attractive. However, when we met in June 2010, I was already falling for A, who was a major crush.

 

When I crush, I usually have one major crush at a time. Had A not been in the picture, I have no doubt I would have fallen harder for E and pursued her (the ball was so in my court... she was asking me to go see movies, etc. she was really open to seeing me 1 on 1, and that's partly why I enjoyed summer 2010 so much. it was a time of excitement, with my big crush on A, with E there for me)

 

I believe things happen for a reason though. E and I were never meant to be. I still firmly believe this. After all, you let someone you love go, if it's meant to be, they come back.

 

 

However, you do need to stand-up for yourself and take more chances.

Be more forward.

You gotta ask women out to get anywhere.

Ask women out you meet in church and other singles groups.

 

Again, I hear ya. A couple things:

 

1. Right now I'm not in that dating frame of mind. Which is a good thing for me right now.

 

2. There's no girl that catches my eye right now

 

There's a season for everything. Right now, I'm not yet the man I want to be, and until I take care of some business, I rather be single for the moment being. There is still some healing I need to engage in, Fred. Because I know "hurting people hurt people" and I don't want to do that to my GF.

 

I'm in a season of singleness, growing and healing right now. I'm 28. I'm no longer super young, but I definitely don't have a "biological clock" ticking so to speak. I can be patient and just work on the things I need to improve on.

[FredRutherford]

There's a season for everything. Right now, I'm not yet the man I want to be, and until I take care of some business, I rather be single for the moment being. There is still some healing I need to engage in, Fred. Because I know "hurting people hurt people" and I don't want to do that to my GF.

 

I'm in a season of singleness, growing and healing right now. I'm 28. I'm no longer super young, but I definitely don't have a "biological clock" ticking so to speak. I can be patient and just work on the things I need to improve on.

 

That makes a lot of sense. I understand.

One thing about your age... don't go thinkin' you're "old" yet.

Late 20s, early 30s... that's the age many of us guys begin to date in earnest and seriously try to find our loves.

 

 

I hear ya. The thing is, I always saw E as a relatively attractive girl. Not a gorgeous girl, but plenty attractive.

 

I know a guy's gotta be attracted to a lady, but at your age, I wouldn't be so looks focused.

Beauty's only skin deep , as the great 1960s Temptations song (Motown) states.

A pretty face don't make a great girl on the inside. Many a guy learned that lesson.

 

You're not "old," but as you age, you may find you relax some of your preferences.

 

That girl I sat next to in a college class who seemed interested in me? The one I posted about only realizing this recently?

 

Methinks most would call her "plain."

I don't think I was looks-focused then, but look what I could have had if I'd dated her.

She may not have had a lot of guys going after her (a good thing as less competition for me), but she might've been able to offer many other things...

Edited February 2, 2012 by FredRutherford

[Teknoe]

That makes a lot of sense. I understand.

One thing about your age... don't go thinkin' you're "old" yet.

 

Ha, thanks for the encouragement. Nah, I don't think I'm "old" yet, in the sense that at 28, I still got some years of my physical prime yet (they say the human body peaks around 26-28). I guess I only feel "old" when I'm around kids just out of college... 22, 23 years old and then I feel a bit like whoa. BTW, E was 22 summer of 2010 when we were hanging out. She was just a puppy out of college, who moved back to town, and we met through church and started connecting online and offline.

 

I have a friend who is 37. Love the guy. Still single. I think his standards are way too high (i.e. she must be late 20s etc.). Everytime I see him he reminds me of how blessed I am to be 28, and if only he could still be 28 today... so that helps keep me reminded that I'm still young.

 

 

I know a guy's gotta be attracted to a lady, but at your age, I wouldn't be so looks focused.

 

Beauty's only skin deep , as the great 1960s Temptations song (Motown) states.

A pretty face don't make a great girl on the inside. Many a guy learned that lesson.

 

You're not "old," but as you age, you may find you relax some of your preferences.

 

That girl I sat next to in a college class who seemed interested in me? The one I posted about only realizing this recently?

 

Methinks most would call her "plain."

I don't think I was looks-focused then, but look what I could have had if I'd dated her.

She may not have had a lot of guys going after her (a good thing as less competition for me), but she might've been able to offer many other things...

 

I don't think I'm nearly as looks-conscious as the average 28 year old male. They are important to me though. I have to AT LEAST be physically attracted to her. Though I agree, personality is more important vastly (just see Scripture for that). I do believe however that I don't have to settle for crumbs, and that when God presents the right lady before me, it will a combination of personality and looks that I am attracted to. Note the bold. She doesn't have to be attractive in the world's eyes, just mine. And I think I'm not too hard a guy to please, looks wise. In fact, most girls I like people would probably rate as a 5 or 6/10. I myself ain't exactly a looker so I know it'd be foolish of me looking for supermodels.

 

I just want a nice, "girl next door" type... who loves God and then loves me just as God made me.

[FredRutherford]

 

BTW, E was 22 summer of 2010 when we were hanging out. She was just a puppy out of college, who moved back to town, and we met through church and started connecting online and offline.

 

 

Tek,

That may be one of your problems there: you dating young women.

 

Women in their early 20s, they have lots of opportunities and lots of attention from lots of guys.

 

Most won't have any interest in guys 5-10 years older than them.

What would they gain by dating a 30 y.o. when there's so many other guys their age?

 

When I was 25, a couple of years out of college, I dated some older college women I met in church Sunday school.

Could rarely get second dates with them, they were so ambivalent.

Couldn't figure out what was wrong, them not wanting another date.

 

About that time, in my mind decided I was gonna try for the "older" gals, the women 1-6 years older than me.

A mid-late 20s guy might be appealing to a woman whose just turned 30 and thinks time's running out.

As those women are usually more mature than the 20-somethings, thought the 30 y.o.s. may be more interested in what I wanted:

a relationship leading to engagement and marriage.

 

From 26 on, dated older women, my first real relationship being a 30 y.o. virgin --- a NEAR-fiance --- I met @26 in a church singles group.

It was an idyllic relationship and I really thought she'd be the one.

 

Not being experienced at relationships, made all the mistakes we newbies made:

-built my world around her, felt threatened when she would (legitimately) bring up doubts she had about us, telling me we should "cool" things as she's received "inquiries..." though she initially was the one who thought we might want to get engaged. Yup, that declaration of us getting engaged triggered more emotional insecurities.

 

If I was smart and strong, would've simply walked away and let her contact me... There are other women I can date...

 

Dated only 6 mos. but building my confidence around her, it killed me when it ended. Called in sick the next Monday, spent the day crying a river of tears.

 

Turns out she was opposite my political views and became very judgmental.

Once she turned 30, 4-5 mos. into our relationship, everything went to hell. There was literally nothing she couldn't find wrong about me.

 

When I (honestly) told her I wasn't a virgin (like her), she came to tears.

Should've said something like,

"I had sex in HS a couple of times my sr. yr. with a girl before I became of faith in college. My conscious bothered me and had a condom failure.

 

I really wanted to be a good Christian but it's hard when women don't know you exist as a single lonely guy in his 20s, so I fell a couple of times after college with 2 casual experiences, making me have sex the sum total of 5X from 17-29.....

As we didn't know each other then, please don't take offense.

It wasn't something I'm proud of and I certainly wouldn't have done it had I known you would be in my life...."

 

But was shaken, humiliated and didn't say any of that as I wasn't a quick-thinker and let her criticism get to my thin skin.

 

Later learned she finally married, close to 40.... about 5 years after I married. She also married some divorced 40-something with a child, so she may have settled.... She had her chance....

 

That experience, however, "toughened' me.

Tried not to let myself get too invested in other women I dated, until I met my future wife @30, and when it became clear she approved of me and wanted to spend time with me....

 

 

I have a friend who is 37. Love the guy. Still single. I think his standards are way too high (i.e. she must be late 20s etc.). Everytime I see him he reminds me of how blessed I am to be 28, and if only he could still be 28 today... so that helps keep me reminded that I'm still young.

 

That's good perspective.

If you don't get more forward, you could end up like him.

I've read many posts on this board and others of older, never-been-in-a-relationship- virgin guys in their late 20s, 30s and even 40s....

You don't want to be one of them, Tek.

 

I don't think I'm nearly as looks-conscious as the average 28 year old male. They are important to me though. I have to AT LEAST be physically attracted to her. Though I agree, personality is more important vastly (just see Scripture for that). I do believe however that I don't have to settle for crumbs, and that when God presents the right lady before me, it will a combination of personality and looks that I am attracted to. Note the bold. She doesn't have to be attractive in the world's eyes, just mine. And I think I'm not too hard a guy to please, looks wise. In fact, most girls I like people would probably rate as a 5 or 6/10. I myself ain't exactly a looker so I know it'd be foolish of me looking for supermodels.

 

I just want a nice, "girl next door" type... who loves God and then loves me just as God made me.

Of course. That's a good view too.

Just don't make looks your overarching focus.

 

The woman I married, looks weren't a big factor in our initial meeting.

Met her through a blind date. She was attractive and all, but looks weren't the driving force for me wanting to ask her for a follow-up date.

 

Almost didn't ask her out as I sensed a lack of interest in me during that first blind date, which wasn't a "real" date as you've just met the other person, a total stranger. It's easier to make conversation with the date hosts, her friends, than my date, who was a little nervous.

 

Something else to consider:

Don't make dating decisions based on first impressions.

 

Though everything may have told you during that first date that it wasn't going to work, you may later in the week get to thinking how you need to call her.... and discover better successive dates, as she and I experienced...

 

What's the problem here? I should've asked some of them when they made excuses on the phone when I TRIED to get another date.

"...I'm asking you for your time.

I'm a good guy who takes women on interesting dates.

This will be worthwhile.

This is your chance."

 

That statement I made earlier in this thread, I wouldn't advise saying stuff like that to a woman you're trying to date.

You don't want to look desperate or mad.

 

Was merely frustration and was the way I felt trying to get follow-up dates with women I thought would work well...

[Teknoe]

I don't go after younger women, per se. That E girl was an exception. The last four girls I liked were ages 26, 30, 28 and 28.

 

Anyway, wow, this thread will hit 100,000 views soon. That is insanity. I want to say I'm at peace and content with where I am now, and know when the time is right for me to persue a lady, I will be more forthright and direct from the get-go.

 

It's all in God's timing from now on for me, though. I'm not quite THERE yet. But I'm moving toward it.

[Teknoe]

update: E and I had a nice long chat earlier this Saturday morning.

 

I simply messaged her "hey, long time. did you get the email i sent you last month?"

 

she said yes, sorry she didn't respond yet.

 

I asked her what's new and we ended up catching up.

 

Then she said something that took me by surprise.

 

"Would you like to meet one of my friends..."

 

She told me "You are not shallow, and you are genuinely nice." She wants me to meet one of her friends.

 

E also talked about marriage, how her BF and her are heading there. I've released E emotionally from my heart. It was time to move on.

 

Glad I didn't snap or anything though -- I didn't burn my bridges. Dunno if this set up thing will go anywhere, but just having options is nice. Right now I'm not in a rush to date anyone though. But I appreciated the chat E and I shared today. We talked about how God is moving in our lives and how we're trusting HIM more with our life decisions, both big and small.

 

Since E and I reconnected, I felt it was appropriate to update this thread.

 

All in all, there is a happy ending to this crazy 100,000+ view thread. A happy ending after all

[FredRutherford]

Then she said something that took me by surprise.

 

"Would you like to meet one of my friends..."

 

She told me "You are not shallow, and you are genuinely nice." She wants me to meet one of her friends.

 

E also talked about marriage, how her BF and her are heading there. I've released E emotionally from my heart. It was time to move on.

 

Glad I didn't snap or anything though -- I didn't burn my bridges. Dunno if this set up thing will go anywhere, but just having options is nice. Right now I'm not in a rush to date anyone though. But I appreciated the chat E and I shared today. We talked about how God is moving in our lives and how we're trusting HIM more with our life decisions, both big and small.

 

Since E and I reconnected, I felt it was appropriate to update this thread.

 

All in all, there is a happy ending to this crazy 100,000+ view thread. A happy ending after all

That's good news, Tek. Good that you two ended on a positive note.

 

Tip: some people say they'll set you up with a blind date.

They don't always go through with it. Talkin' experience here.

 

When you do go on that date, don't build your hopes up.

Act natural, relaxed and comfortable with yourself, other people and the world around you.

Women can sense insecurity and a guy can get to acting odd or too nervous if

(a) he hasn't dated much and

(b) he gets his hopes up too high.

 

Don't go into it thinking she's "the one" where you get uptight and not present your "best face" during the first meeting.

 

 

After that first date:

Don't make judgements based only on first impressions.

 

Met my future wife through a date arranged by her friend, a woman I knew professionally.

That first date didn't go so well and I sensed it wouldn't work.

She was attractive and all, but I didn't sense she was "into me" and hence not attracted to me as a potential dating partner.

 

Kept thinking,

"This isn't gonna work. I'll make it through this evening and there will be other women..."

 

But we got some time apart toward the end of the date, so were able to talk. She seemed nice and all but I couldn't see any kind of match.

 

During the next week or so, kept having this gnawing feeling that I needed to phone her and go out on a real date with her...

 

Gotta give her some slack as it was a first date, was our first meeting and she was likely nervous upon our very first meeting...

 

We've been together since then, nearly 20 years...

 

If I had gone on my first impression, wouldn't have called her and never enjoyed a fulfilling and loving relationship...

[Teknoe]

That's good news, Tek. Good that you two ended on a positive note.

 

Tip: some people say they'll set you up with a blind date.

They don't always go through with it. Talkin' experience here.

 

 

Oh I know... in fact, I told E that I'm in no rush to be dating anyone right now (as I take care of more pressing matters). E said she understood but thought she bring it up anyway.

 

 

When you do go on that date, don't build your hopes up.

 

 

There won't be a date anytime soon, methinks, if ever between me and E's friend. More of a group thing, or maybe she'll come to my easter play and we'll exchange a few emails to see if there's any connection between us so to speak.

 

To be honest, not sweating it either way. If it's meant to be, it will (not saying about her specifically, but in general). I'm learning to let these matters go. Anyway, I got bigger fish to fry right now. A girlfriend would be a nice bonus/blessing from God should that occur someday, but right now I'm content being single, so I'm in no rush to meet this particular girl. Also, to be honest E described her a bit and I also saw her picture. Did not feel that zing... I know don't judge and so on, but... I was not moved to meet her ASAP. Not that her friend is ugly or anything, but not my type (to the extent I could guess).

 

I think I appreciate E's gesture and thinking of me more than anything else.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Teknoe