Am I doing the right thing?

[SeriousBob12]

Raps, bro....I TOTALLY understand where you're coming from with the "did I blow my last chance?!" mentality. But in retrospect of feeling the exact same way, trust me dude you didn't.

 

with how upfront and honest you have been about your feelings with her, if she was to negate ALL of that and let the fact that you didn't respond to a facebook message take precedence...be gone with her, waste of time!

 

But in all seriousness dude that's highly unlikely. I don't think anything spoken about in that one conversation would have really changed anything.

 

As FuFu very accurately put it, our dumpers usually just want the guilt ease. Like all of us they have feelings and in most times there is a point where they probably go "wow I feel bad, I should clear that up" for themselves to not feel like such a jerk/douche/b|tc|-|.

 

As we fantasize and hope for "Oh I miss you so much! what was I thinking? Can we give this another try?"

 

They're going "ahhhhh, I'm not such a bad person after all, he/she isn't that mad! yay!"

 

 

I'm willing to get that if you did respond to that msg she would have gone right back to being distant and confusing you, all with the added mind trip at your expense. She would have gotten the satisfaction that you don't hate her. Again, this is just my outlook, but I'm willing to bet that's all she wanted.

 

What you said about NC is dead on my friend. You have to apply it for you, any "get back with her" outcome is strictly a matter up to the future/fate. You don't do it expecting it to happen.

 

I'm not too sure what you fitness life is like, but might I suggest starting up an exercising routine. I know it sounds cliche and every magazine and website out there suggests it, but in all honesty it is the best remedy. The endorphin release and high really does wonders. Plus if you stick with it, you get the added bonus of looking better, which does wonders for your confidence.

 

You sound strong at 18 days man, and keep it up. Like I said there is a point in time when you'll look back at on this as something that sucked, but you got through it. It won't bother you anymore, and you'll be well on your on the path of healing. It's a truly crazy thing, you just have to be patient and let time do it's thing.

[Rap17]

Thanks guys, words cannot express how much I appreciate your comments. Having people like you around whos willing to take the time out of the day to help me get throught this is amazing. I often go back and read your comments several times when Im feeling low.Beautiful people you are.

 

Day 19 of NC. (Seems like two posts in the same day, but I live in Europe, so diferent time tables ).

 

Another day off from Uni, another day out of sight. Just been to myself, reading a ton of posts on these and other forums. Im gaining so much insight, so much knowledge about my problem and relationships in general.

 

I think about her a lot, I still check up on FB to see what shes doing, and yes, she still seems like everythings fine and shes busy with going out with friends, parties and studies.

 

My status right now is that Im well, basically a wreck to look at. Ive lost weight and Ive always been a thin guy, so thats not working too well for me. I have spent some time looking through diet and health pages, to determine how I can improve my diet and gain some weight again. I practically chain smoke and I really want to quit, but now is not the time, I havent got the willpower at the moment because of whats going on. To answer your question SeriousBob, I have talked to a friend about starting at the gym next week. He goes there nearly every day and will help me get started, show me how to work the machines etc. I also started swimming once a week, and gotta admit it feels good doing stuff for me and my own health, even though it can be hard conjuring up the willpower to leave my appartment in the first place.

 

Right now, I havent got much funds left for this month, so its hard to really go out and do stuff to take my mind off things. Im going to play with a band at a party this saturday and will get payed handsomly, so after the weekend Ill have more options financially. Until then Ill just have to settle with not doing much, most of the time probably sit here and reflect on my situation and gain more clarity. Thats fine, Im at peace with that. Bar is open at Uni tomorrow, I saw on FB that she might be attending, which means I wont. Dont worry, its not about her having the power to keep me from going, its about whats best for me. Im not ready to go there and see her have fun, and that other guy will probably be there as well. For now, Ill stay out of sight, and keep her that way too.

 

I took a good look in the mirror today. Thats not the guy I used to be, I look like a shadow of my former self. But I dont hate myself or my looks. Sure, I could use a bit of work and thats what I need to focus on now. Charisma is still there, and Im not an ugly guy by any stretch of the imagination. My appartment is a bit of a mess, I have been neglecting my chores and the dishes are piling up. This is not how I want to live, this is not who I want to be, and in no way is that attractive to anyone. Its hard to fight to pick yourself up at moments like these, but Im going to, and I have to.

 

I dont know whats going on in my mind, but a feeling crept in this afternoon, a sense of enlightenment if you will. Its not a matter of winning her back, its not a matter of trying to convince her of anything, because I cant. I realised, that just the mere fact of me trying to convince her through any means, is an indication that Im not thinking rational and that Im not respecting myself enough. I want her back more than anything, even after everything shes put me through. If you have met "the one" you know, you just instinctivly understand it to be the truth. But see, I also understand now, that its not me whos at fault or in denial for seeing her in that light, its her failure that shes letting go of something so special, and that shes too blind to see what shes missing out on, at least at this point in time.

 

What Ive come to realise is, that if I start working on myself and repair my broken self esteem and insecurities, and simply be the best I can be, it wont be a matter of her "crawling back to me or, or not" like she put it. It will be inevitable that she will be attracted to me again. No matter if shes with someone else, if shes in a rebound or not, I know what Im capable of when Im at my peak. Through my entire life, if I had a goal and put my mind to it, theres has been nothing I couldnt achieve, big or small. Now, before anyone starts telling me im in denial, or that Im setting myself up to be dissapointed, know this; Yes, the hope is there, Im hoping she will begin to miss me and come back to me. Yes, Im hoping for a second chance, Ive got all the dreams of reconcilliation that you could imagine.

 

But in a few months time, when I have bettered myself, regained some confidence, and rebuilt my self esteem, she wont be able to resist me. Should she not act, seek me out and try to regain my attention, it will be a matter of her being too immature and stubborn, and I cant change that. It will be her loss. But trust me when I say that she will question her decision, no matter if it comes apparent or not.

 

Its a state of mind. Understand that you are GREAT. Understand that you are MARVELLOUS. Youve always been that way, youve simply forgotten and tried to convince yourself otherwise. When you begin to believe this and understand it, then the world will believe it too. Its what attracted your ex to you in the first place. It takes a lot of self reflection and work, and Im not there yet, but youll get there in time. I guarantee it. I can feel it.

 

I think my heart and my brain is beginning to communicate again, its a start.

[Rap17]

Saw a post from a guy who recently got dumped by his girlfriend. Her reason: "I need to find myself, I need space"

 

His response:

 

"You want space? I can give you so much F'n space you'll think you're an astronaut."

 

Made me laugh out loud. Just had to share it

[Fufu]

ahhah it's funny. How I wish I used it on my ex-bf who complained I never give him space. LOL.

[Downtown]

after having read about Borderline disorder and way shes made me feel during this breakup, she kinda fits the bill in many ways.

Yes, I agree, Rap. Indeed, when I started reading your post from the beginning, I was intending to respond by suggesting that you read about BPD. As I read three pages further, however, I was pleased to see that you had done exactly that by mid-November, and you had started to see that your exGF's behavior -- though high functioning -- exhibits a pattern of strong BPD traits. You should be very proud of yourself. (Although spotting the traits is easy when you know what traits are on the BPD list, determining whether they are so severe as to meet the diagnostic criteria is very difficult -- and thus is the province of professionals, which do not include me.)

 

Although strong BPD traits is a very common condition (affecting perhaps 8 to 10% of the population), I have met only a few people who took the initiative -- and had the sheer intellectual confidence -- to figure out for themselves that their partners have such traits. Without doing that, there really was no easy way for you to find out because it is rare for BPDers to be aware of it, much less tell their partners about it. Moreover, even if they are in therapy, the psychologists are very reluctant to tell them their true diagnosis. I therefore applaud you for your achievement!

Now shes repeating the pattern she told me she was gonna change. What a huge joke.

No, not a joke but, rather, a tragedy. BPD traits are ego-syntonic, i.e., are so ingrained to the way a person has been thinking since early childhood that it is invisible to nearly all people suffering from such traits. Given that your exGF is seeing a therapist and knows she has issues, it is apparent that she has a remarkable level of self awareness that few BPDers ever achieve. This likely means that she is over the hurdle that blocks 98% of BPDers from seeking therapy and staying with it long enough to make a difference.

 

Even so, it likely will take her 4 or 5 years of weekly therapy to start making substantial changes in her behavior -- a process that is painful and difficult. Importantly, there is no way for you to know, at any point in those five years, whether she is substantially better without taking the great emotional risk of dating her again. As you know all to well by now, a high-functioning, unstable woman appears to be perfectly fine much of the time. And, if she suddenly splits you white and wants you back, she will appear far better than "fine." She will appear, as she did many times before, to be the most loving, adoring, and passionate woman you have ever met. Yet, due to her instability, it won't mean a thing because she is incapable of sustaining it (until treatment is successful).

How can any human being be this cold? This is beyond cruel.

Extreme meanness (e.g., vindictiveness and coldness) is a hallmark of BPD traits. Significantly, it does not occur because the BPDer is evil but, rather, because she has been doing all-or-nothing thinking since childhood. As young children, all of us think that way on a 24/7 basis until we learn to integrate the good and bad aspects of our personalities into a coherent, unified sense of self. That is, by the age of 4 or 5, we start realizing that we are "essentially good" people who occasionally have bad thoughts and make mistakes.

 

We therefore learned to be very comfortable with the human condition: having both loving and hateful feelings toward nearly everyone and everything. This tolerance of having strong mixed feelings about someone is a skill that BPDers never learned because a childhood trauma (together with genetics) prevented them from achieving what every other four year old accomplished. Hence, if your exGF has strong BPD traits, she likely has an emotional development that is frozen at about age four.

 

The result is that she cannot tolerate having strong mixed feelings and must view people, instead, with a black-white perception -- wherein she classifies everyone (including herself) as "all good" or "all bad." Moreover, as a BPDer (i.e., a person with strong BPD traits), she can easily reclassify a person from one extreme category to the other in ten seconds -- based solely on an innocuous comment or action that triggers one of her great fears: engulfment and abandonment.

 

When that triggering occurs, most BPDers will "act out" by releasing a rage onto their partners. Their behavior therefore is characterized by intermittent periods of very abusive language and, sometimes, with physical violence also. A smaller portion of BPDers, however, usually "act in" by directing the anger inward. They therefore become passive aggressive and treat their partners coldly and with silence. From what you've said, it sounds like your exGF has mild traits of the latter -- if indeed she is a BPDer as you suspect.

 

In any event, my point is that such people are perfectly capable of loving you but, within ten seconds, they can completely lose touch with feeling and be in touch, instead, with their anger toward you. Although this "love" does constitute "true love," it is not mature love. Instead, it is the same type of love that you will receive from your four-year-old daughter (when you eventually have a daughter). Such love is flighty with young children because they are incapable of controlling their emotions and they still do black-white thinking.

 

Hence, a young child loses touch with that loving feeling when he becomes very angry with you -- as is very apparent during a child's tantrum. Another difference in the quality of childish love is that, when a young child says "I love you," it largely means "I desperately need you to love ME." I therefore strongly believe that your exGF really loved you (but like a child) -- and likely still has some love for you -- but such immature love falls far short of what is required to sustain a LTR between adults (even when she is in touch with that love).

[The woman I dated before my exGF] confessed to me that she was convinced I'm her soul mate!

That is not surprising. Given that you believe she has stronger BPD traits than your exGF, it is not surprising she would feel that way. As I noted above, a BPDer has a weak, unstable sense of who she is. Hence, when she is alone by herself, she doesn't even have her "self" to keep her company. A BPDer therefore hates to be alone and seeks out a man with a strong stable personality to anchor and center her self image. This is why you will see a BPDer acting very differently around different people (e.g., the rebound guy).

 

This also is why you will see a BPDer mirroring the personality of her BF during the infatuation-honeymoon period. During that six-month period, she will be idealizing him so extremely that she will be convinced that he is perfect, he is her "soul mate," and he will fix her and make her happy.

 

More interestingly, her mirroring of your personality will be so perfect that you too will be convinced that you have met your soul mate. Indeed, in all of your writing except for the past few days, you have repeatedly claimed that your exGF "is the one." Rap, that is a very strong feeling but it is only that -- a feeling. Don't believe it. It is based on the false self image that your exGF created as she was using your strong personality to center and anchor her own.

 

Significantly, in doing that, she was NOT trying to manipulate you. People who believe that have no understanding of how fundamentally impaired a BPDer really is. Since the age of three or four, a BPDer has been anchoring her unstable self image on the stable personality of another person as a way of surviving. Hence, whenever she walks into a room with strangers, she figures out how they likely expect her to behave and then she acts in that manner. This constitutes coping and dealing with reality, not manipulation.

in a few months time, when I have bettered myself, regained some confidence, and rebuilt my self esteem, she wont be able to resist me.

But why would it matter? Because a BPDer is unable to regulate her emotions, she experiences a flood of intense feelings that wash aside feelings she experienced a week or two earlier. Moreover, the intense feeling she is experiencing constitutes her perception of reality. Hence, trying to build up a store of goodwill or appreciation in her -- or a recognition that she lost a wonderful man -- is no more productive than building a sand castle beside the sea. Within two weeks -- if not a day -- it will be gone anyway.

She said she has not spoken to her mom for several years due to her gambling sickness.

Nobody refuses to speak to her own mother for several years for that reason. I therefore suspect that the mother has done something abusive and very hurtful to her. If your exGF has strong BPD traits, there is a good chance she inherited the genetic sensitivity (i.e., a propensity to having some type of mental disorder) from her mother. Moreover, a recent study (face-to-face interviews with nearly 35,000 American adults) found that 6% have BPD at the diagnostic level at some time during their lifetimes and, of those BPDers, 70% report having been abused or abandoned during early childhood. I therefore believe you were wise to conclude that "something dreadful must have happened back then, relating to her mother."

she told me during the breakup that she didn't trust anyone but herself.

Absent years of therapy, a BPDer is incapable of trusting anyone (except during the six-month honeymoon when you are idealized -- and intermittently thereafter for brief periods). Her ability to trust likely was destroyed before she was five.

Many memories has begun to pop up in my mind... her telling me she loved me, literally weeks into our relationship.

BPDers can fall in love -- and out of love -- so quickly because, as I noted, their existing feelings are so intense that they mask or push aside older feelings. Because their feelings are both intense and fleeting, it is sometimes said that a BPDer's feelings are "a mile wide and an inch deep."

One single line that keeps popping into my head: "After some time by myself I might come crawling back to you/him, or I might not." Can anyone decipher this for me?

If your ex is a BPDer, that statement is easy to understand. As I noted above, a BPDer is unstable and thus does not know who she will be -- much less know who she will want around -- several months into the future. Moreover, her fear of abandonment sometimes will be so strong that she will preemptively abandon a BF to avoid the intense pain of being abandoned by him.

 

The most likely reason, however, is her intense fear of engulfment. Because a BPDer has a weak sense of whom she is, she finds it extremely frightening to be close to someone for very long. She will feel like she is evaporating into thin air -- or like she is merging into him, not knowing where her boundaries end and his begin. And she will feel like he is "controlling" her.

 

Hence, to get breathing space and feel like a separate whole individual again, she will push you away. Usually this is done by creating an argument over nothing or simply by becoming very distant and somewhat cold. Not surprisingly, this behavior is most often seen immediately after your having an intimate evening or great weekend with her. The irony, then, is that your most wonderful moments with her are often quickly followed by some of the worst moments. Consequently, it is not surprising that you were dumped shortly after your sex life improved. During the six months your sex life was diminished by your lack of energy, she at least had many periods of escape from the fear of engulfment by your strong personality.

She cannot handle being alone or independent.

So true. When she is alone, she is miserable because she has no strong personality to stabilize her changing self image. Yet, when she has such a person in her life, she is miserable because she feels she is becoming lost in his personality and he is controlling every aspect of her life. This very sad predicament is one reason why you likely do more harm than good when dating a BPDer.

Man, shes actually disgusting for what shes done.

As JoyToMe explains so well, anger is your friend when you are a kind hearted caregiver who is trying to stay away from a sick loved one. Use the anger as a crutch to walk away from the toxic relationship to safety. Then, perhaps a year from now, kick the crutch aside because it will be only corrosive, not useful.

I feel so sorry for her. I truly do. Its not her fault, shes just had a rough upbringing.

Actually, what happened to you is partly her fault. Yes, absolutely. Of course, having strong BPD traits is not her fault. But choosing to treat you with such contempt is very much her fault. Every time she felt anger towards you, she had the opportunity to challenge that irrational feeling and start taking responsibility for her own actions. Because she declined to do so, it is important to hold her accountable for her own childish, impulsive, selfish actions. At an emotional level, she has the emotional development of a four year old -- which is why she cannot control her impulses and emotions very well. Just like a young child, she must be held accountable for her actions or there is no hope for her because she will remain acting like a spoiled undisciplined child. Her only hope for growth, then, is to be held accountable.

I still love her! But Ill never be able to trust her again, can never forgive her for this.

Of course you can never trust her again. When a person is incapable of trusting you -- and I learned this the hard way -- you can never trust her because she can turn on you at any time with a vengence -- and she will.

 

As to your boast about "never forgiving" her, that is just silly. And nobody knows that better than you because you've been the family's "emotional fixer" and caregiver since you were a boy. See, for example, how you claimed she is "a whore" and then -- realizing how ludicrous that thought is -- you took it back in the next sentence.

I know I have the "knight in shining armor to the rescue" complex. I dont think I can change that.

.Yes, and I do too. Like you, I grew up with a parent who relied too heavily on me for emotional support. The result was that I ended up relying too heavily on my ability to help others as the basis for my self esteem. To feel valuable as a person, I have to always be helping someone. Of course, wanting to help people is a good and noble trait. Our problem is our willingness to keep helping people even when it is to our great detriment to do so. This occurs because our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). The best explanation of this I have seen is a wonderful article by therapist Shari Scheiber. I would be glad to give you the link if you want to read it.

 

As several respondents mentioned already, you are being too over-analytical. Being over-analytical is one hallmark of having codependency traits. Of course, it oftentimes is an advantage, as occurred when your analytical nature led you to the discovery of what constitutes a pattern of BPD traits. It often comes back to bite us, however, because we are so analytically focused on figuring out "what we are doing wrong" that we ignore our own feelings, i.e., the hurt we are feeling during all of the abuse and betrayal. It therefore is important that you learn how to establish stronger personal boundaries. And, at the same, you must learn how to enforce those boundaries to protect yourself.

 

I note that "codependent" is a terrible term because most codependents I have met are fiercely independent in nearly all respects. A typical codependent will be working full time and going home to take care of three kids and five dogs -- and will still find time on the weekends to go out looking for a spouse to take care of too. Our real problem is not being dependent but, rather, being so willing to sacrifice our own welfare -- and ignore our own feelings -- in a misguided effort to pump up our self esteem by helping others even when it is to our great detriment to do so.

I am attracting women with either BPD or related issues.

That is very unlikely. Rather, the reverse is probably true. You are seeking them out. Guys like us walk right past the emotionally available women who are capable of loving us in a mature fashion. Boring. Not enough passion.

 

We keep walking until we find a wounded bird who, being convinced she is a perpetual victim, is a master at projecting vulnerability ("catnip" to caregivers like us). We are suckers for vulnerability because we find it so intoxicating ("Attention white knights: savior needed, savior needed"). Indeed, even normal people are somewhat attracted to vulnerability, which is why all the great actors are able to project vulnerability -- and why many of them have strong BPD traits.

 

Our wanting to save someone is a disastrous goal, as you now realize, when we meet a BPDer. One big problem is that we are incapable of saving her. Another is that she doesn't want to be saved. That is, she doesn't really want solutions to her never-ending problems. What she really wants is drama. Although that fact is plain as day when someone grabs our shoulders and points it out to us, we otherwise are wholly oblivious to it. Hence, we will save her a hundred times over, never once noticing that -- every time we pulled her from the raging seas -- she immediately jumped right back into the water.

I trusted her with all my heart and she completely obliterates me for it....I never hurt her.

Rap, please let go of the notion that the harm is something SHE did to you. Instead, it is something you BOTH did to each other. It takes two willing people to sustain a toxic relationship for 18 months. Granted, her contribution to the toxicity is readily apparent (e.g., the cheating, distrust, and lying). And, granted, your contribution -- hidden by your noble goal of wanting to help -- is much harder to see.

 

Your role in the toxic relationship was that of an enabler who -- due to your efforts in soothing her and walking on eggshells to calm her -- made it possible for your exGF to avoid confronting her issues and working on them. Because your chosen vocation will be that of a professional trained in recognizing destructive behavioral patterns in children, it may be easier to see your role in terms of the parent who fails to discipline an unruly spoiled child, unnecesarrily protecting her from the logical consequences of her own actions.

 

I say this, Rap, not to beat up on you but, rather, to help liberate you from the heavy guilt and strong feeling of obligation we caregivers suffer from when trying to extricate ourselves from a BPDer relationship. The notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema to us. It goes against our family values, our religious beliefs, our morals -- indeed, against every fiber of our being.

 

My message, then -- indeed the primary reason for writing this post -- is to tell you that you have done WELL over the past two weeks (certainly, far better than I ever achieved). Namely, your decision to stay away from her is good for BOTH of you because the toxic relationship was harming her as well as you. Granted, she probably will make the same mistake all over again with Mr. Rebound Guy. Still, the very best thing you can do for her, as well as for yourself, is to stay away when -- as is likely to occur -- she eventually returns to reel you back in. Rap, if you would like to read more about typical BPDer behavior on this forum, please see my three posts in Inigo's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2826453#post2826453. The first post provides a link to the best "Surviving a Breakup" article I've ever seen for those leaving a BPDer relationship. In addition to the reading, please start taking care of yourself, Caretaker.

[Rap17]

Day 20 of NC.

 

Been a rough day today. Yesterday I was feeling in control and kinda on top of it all, today I regressed again.

 

Feeling like crap, missing her. Im seriously beginning to wonder if I should not have ignored the message from her on Facebook, and if I should do a late response. She mentioned shes thinking about me...hmmm, I dont know, could be a good sign or the opposite. Im seriously struggling here. Keep thinking about her writing me and me ignoring her in real time. She even waited around for a bit, hoping for a response. Its just not like me to do such a thing.

 

In one week it will be four weeks of NC, and well, no matter the motive, she did reach out to me those two days ago.

 

Do you guys think it would be a mistake giving her a late response? Im so worried she took it the wrong way and tells herself that I dont care, or is being stubborn and is mad and dissapointed in me. Why the hell couldnt she just write a text on the cell or call me? If that was the case I wouldnt have been as hesitant as I was wednesday. Shes a bit naive unfortunatly, maybe she thinks she did the right thing. So much doubt right now.

 

Can someone explain to me why ignoring her message is a good idea really? And if its not, what on earth should I write her in response?

 

Im dying for some perspective here guys. Its like my world turned upside down sigh.

[bl22]

DownTown

 

 

Damn your post really hit home here, my ex and i had such a great relationship but there were moments where she would get stressed for no aparent reason after a lovely weekend together, i never understood this but I never let it bother me. I found she became more and more interested in things i was doing also which you mention in your post also.

 

Out of nowhere it seems she just left me for someone else at the start of Oct. We shared so many happy memories and fun times together that it stil hurts to think what shes done...do BPD women ever feel any ounce of guilt when they finish who theyve been with for 2+ years? If i knew she at least missed me from time to time, the pain would ease a little, even though there is no chance of us getting back together anytime soon.

[Downtown]

Rap, you and I posted simultaneously. Please see the post above your last one.

[Downtown]

Damn, we did it again.

[bl22]

"As you know all to well by now, a high-functioning, unstable woman appears to be perfectly fine much of the time. And, if she suddenly splits you white and wants you back, she will appear far better than "fine." She will appear, as she did many times before, to be the most loving, adoring, and passionate woman you have ever met. Yet, due to her instability, it won't mean a thing because she is incapable of sustaining it"

 

this is so true

[Downtown]

do BPD women ever feel any ounce of guilt when they finish who theyve been with for 2+ years? If i knew she at least missed me from time to time, the pain would ease a little

Yes, of course they do. BPDers are not from another planet. They have the same basic set of feelings and fears that we all have. Indeed, all of us have all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a lower level if we are emotionally healthy. Hence, BPDers (i.e., those with strong traits) and "Nons" differ only in degree, not in kind.

 

That said, there is little point in your agonizing over making exactly the right impression when leaving her. No matter what impression you make, there is little chance it will last for long. Remember, it is a sand castle. And her self image is weak and, to the extent she has a consistent concept of self, it is one of being a victim. Always a victim. To support that false image, she desperately needs a "perpetrator" around at all times so she can blame him for every mistake (or bad thought) she makes. The perpetrator used to be you and, when the honeymoon evaporates in six months, it will be Mr. Robound Guy -- if he is still around that long.

 

Incidentally, please let up on Mr. Rebound Guy. After a breakup, a BPDer typically says the most hateful things about her ex to justify the separation. My exW, for example, said such scathing things about me that I have not heard from four of her adult children for four years -- never mind that I dearly loved them for 16 years, that I still love them, and that I helped put two of them all the way through college and bought them cars.

 

At this point, then, Mr. Rebound Guy probably believes you cheated on her or brutalized her. Indeed, he likely believed some terrible thing like that last summer when he first started trying to save her from your "abuse" (or whatever else she dreamed up). So give the guy a break. It won't be long before another guy is wanting to kick his ass so as to save her from his alleged abuses.

[Rap17]

Oh man Downtown bro, you almost brought me to tears with that post of yours, and damn, Im a grown man. I missed it when I wrote my "day 20 of nc" post so had a small heart attack when I refreshed the page and saw your reply.

 

Thank you so much. There are so many things to comment on but the first thing that struck me was how you mentioned that my ex is in therapy. I dont think she is. She just mentioned several times during the breakup period that shee needed therapy and that she was thinking about it, I even encouraged it because she felt that way. Ive been in therapy myself when I got depressed because my mom was dying of cancer.

 

But from what I can see shes just out partying and keeping busy, kinda like shes ignoring the pain, which she also kinda confirmed to a mutual friend a week ago. Thats what I mean about her repeating the pattern. She is beginning to be aware that somethings wrong with her, but its like her behavior indicates shes shrugging it off and that talking to friends, going out and keeping busy with her studies is what she needs, and why? Because she gets lots of compliments, guys are courting her, shes doing well at Uni, lots of resposibility etc. Its like shes filling up that void in herself with false self esteem. But I know that her issues from the past will not go away, shes just burying them again. I cant be certain, but it would fit her profile and I wouldnt be surprised if thats the case.

 

Regarding myself and the caregiver role, I totally agree with you. Ive approached women in the past who seemed normal, but in the end they almost always had some deep seated problems. One girl I dated turned out to have been raped, another had severe anger outbursts for reasons unknown, (shes the one that contacted me recently and appologized for her past behaviour, the soulmate one), one turned out to have been in an abusive relationship with a boyfriend who beat her to a pulp,and now my ex whos had god knows which confrontations with ex boyfriends and her mother in her childhood/teens.

 

My studies, (as well as my ex´s, same place), have to do with looking after children in kindergartens and schools, and my speciality is the care of young people with social problems, (drugs, abuse, broken families etc.). I dont know what the official title for that profession is in english, but we call it peadagog. It fits my caregiver profile perfectly, and also fits my ex´s, maybe for her its an issue of trying to save and protect children, because she didnt have a "safe" upbringing herself.

 

I will read the link you provided to gain more insight to my situation. And do know, that whenever Im feeling down like I am today, its a HUGE comfort to be reminded that she might be sick because of BDP. Yeah, the symptoms are definantly there, and like I mentioned, even friends with knowledge of BDP has pointed this out to me, so theres hints that I might not be delluding myself. It helps relieve the guilt that pops up inside from time to time. Sometimes I forget, because I remember our good times and how things were during the honeymoon phase, which lasted a long time.

 

I have to add however, that she never seemed to split her view on me, at least not that Im aware of, then again I might not have been able to see it as such. She blamed me for a lot of stuff, not angrily, rather in frustration. No arguments really, more stuff like beginning to cry because "I didnt pay enough attention to her needs" and stuff like that. I always succeeded in reassuring her and calming her down. The last time I saw her though, when I broke down in the Uni bar, she got so angry because I was pestering her, she gave me a look I have never seen from her before. It was like pure hatred was coming from her eyes. I have NEVER seen such a look before from her, EVER. I understand why she got frustrated and upset with me, but that seemed out of place somehow. I might be grapsing at straws here, but it was very unpleasant.

 

Thank you so much Downtown, words cannot express my gratitude. Im still wonder if I should respond to her two day old message though, ignoring her makes me feel awful. Maybe you have a take on it?

Edited November 26, 2010 by Rap17

[bl22]

Yes, of course they do. BPDers are not from another planet. They have the same basic set of feelings and fears that we all have. Indeed, all of us have all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a lower level if we are emotionally healthy. Hence, BPDers (i.e., those with strong traits) and "Nons" differ only in degree, not in kind.

 

That said, there is little point in your agonizing over making exactly the right impression when leaving her. No matter what impression you make, there is little chance it will last for long. Remember, it is a sand castle. And her self image is weak and, to the extent she has a consistent concept of self, it is one of being a victim. Always a victim. To support that false image, she desperately needs a "perpetrator" around at all times so she can blame him for every mistake (or bad thought) she makes. The perpetrator used to be you and, when the honeymoon evaporates in six months, it will be Mr. Robound Guy -- if he is still around that long.

 

Incidentally, please let up on Mr. Rebound Guy. After a breakup, a BPDer typically says the most hateful things about her ex to justify the separation. My exW, for example, said such scathing things about me that I have not heard from four of her adult children for four years -- never mind that I dearly loved them for 16 years, that I still love them, and that I helped put two of them all the way through college and bought them cars.

 

At this point, then, Mr. Rebound Guy probably believes you cheated on her or brutalized her. Indeed, he likely believed some terrible thing like that last summer when he first started trying to save her from your "abuse" (or whatever else she dreamed up). So give the guy a break. It won't be long before another guy is wanting to kick his ass so as to save her from his alleged abuses.

 

I'd HATE to think she is saying terrible things about me behind my back, i always looked out for her and loved her. Even when we broke up her mum was saying how much she liked me and wishes she'd see sense. I'd hate to think she's made me out to be a bad guy to her mum (i know it probably doesnt matter now, but I don't want her family to think bad of me)

 

You say the impression we make when we break up isnt important. I acted desperate and needy for around 2 weeks after the breakup, so you're saying she wont remember me as this and it will have disappeared and she will rememebr the good relationship we had for 2 years?

 

Sorry for all the questions, it just seems you know alot about this, and I've never thought of her having a BPD before, but what you say makes sense. Also, is there any point contacting her on her birthday next week? Atm im not going too, but I dont want her to make up a story in her head that I never cared cause i didnt wish her happy birthday and she spent alot on mine.

 

Then again, i dont want her to think im stil hung up on her and thinking about her, Its a lose/lose situation really.

[Downtown]

My speciality is the care of young people with social problems .... It fits my caregiver profile perfectly, and also fits my ex´s, maybe for her its an issue of trying to save and protect children.

It is not uncommon for high functioning BPDers to become social workers, nurses, and doctors because many of them are extremely caring individuals and have great empathy for others. My exW, for example, is a very caring person and I have never met anyone who could so quickly put total strangers at ease. Within a half hour, they felt they had known her for months.

 

Heaven help them, however, if they were foolish enough to draw close to her. As soon as anyone establishes a close relationship with her, they immediately pose two serious threats: abandonment (of the relationship) and engulfment (from the intimacy). Significantly, casual friends, business colleagues, and complete strangers usually pose no threat whatsoever. This is why you will see a BPDer treating complete strangers with great generosity and then go home to abuse the very people who love them.

She is beginning to be aware that somethings wrong with her

If she is a BPDer, she has known that for many years -- at least since age 15 when her traits started surfacing as she began dating. BPDers hate themselves and live in fear of their friends finding out that they are "acting" and are fake, not being what they seem. Yet, because they carry enormous shame from childhood, they are afraid of admitting to a mistake or having a flaw because it stirs up such an overpowering feeling of shame. In this regard, they are the opposite of narcissists because -- although NPDers also create and maintain a false self image -- the NPDers do it so subconsciously that they actually believe the false self is real. This is why an NPDer gets so indignant when an acquaintance says something to challenge that image. On the other hand, an NPDer has the advantage of being stable, i.e., they consistently believe the false self is real. In contrast, a BPDer knows it is false but is unstable.

I have to add however, that she never seemed to split her view on me, at least not that Im aware of.... No arguments really, more stuff like beginning to cry because "I didnt pay enough attention to her needs" and stuff like that.

If your exGF has strong BPD traits, she likely "acts in" instead of "acting out," as I mentioned earlier. The vast majority of high functioning BPDers act out, which means they throw tantrums (usually lasting about five hours) whenever one of their twin fears is triggered. Of course, they are the easiest to identify as having strong BPD traits because they periodically run around acting like a four year old throwing a tantrum.

 

A substantial portion of BPDers direct their anger inward, however. It therefore is much harder for therapists to spot them as having BPD traits. Like the other BPDers, they are very controlling of loved ones due to their fear of abandonment. Yet, instead of starting nasty arguments, they withdraw into themselves and play the "poor little me, I'm such a victim" role to its fullest. If they don't successfully control you with that display of crying and self pity, they will punish you by withdrawing and withholding all affection -- thereby freezing you out. Because you describe your exGF as behaving in this manner, I said earlier that -- if she has strong BPD traits -- she must be in the "acting in" group.

 

On the Internet, I have not found much information about this group, which are usually referred to as "quiet borderlines" and "borderline waifs." The two best descriptions I've seen for this group are Schreiber's article at http://www.gettinbetter.com/waif.html and Mahari's article at http://borderlinepersonality.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/07/borderline-pe-2.html. Keep in mind that, because those behavioral descriptions are for persons having full-blown BPD, the behavior would be much milder for a high functioning BPDer with mild traits.

The last time I saw her ... she gave me a look I have never seen from her before. It was like pure hatred was coming from her eyes. I have NEVER seen such a look before from her, EVER.... I might be grasping at straws here, but it was very unpleasant.

No, you are not grasping at straws. I know exactly what you are talking about. Indeed, every ex-partner knows exactly what that looks like. In fact, just a few days ago on another forum, a newbie Non (like you) was asking about that very same look. He said it scared the daylights out of him because -- as the light in her eyes was momentarily replaced by a dark stare of intense hatred -- it looked as though her soul had left her body for a few seconds -- being replaced, perhaps, by the devil himself. Like you, he said he had never before seen that look of utter hatred, which lasted only a few seconds but frightened him.

 

In the 15 years I lived with my exW, I saw it maybe five times. Each time, it lasted only a few seconds. It is hard to describe because she did not squint her eyes like most people do when giving you the "hate" look, where they are "glaring" at you. Instead, the eyes were almost relaxed, with a dead stare of utter contempt. And, yes, it was scary each time. In those brief seconds, I felt as though she was suddenly capable of killing me if she had a gun in her hands -- even though I knew for certain that "the real her" (whoever that is) actually loved me at some level.

I will read the link you provided to gain more insight to my situation.

I believe you will find the discussion in Inigo's thread helpful (at the link provided above). And you likely will be especially pleased with the "Breakup" article I link to in my first post in that thread.

 

B122, I haven't forgotten you. I intend to respond within the hour.

[bl22]

 

At this point, then, Mr. Rebound Guy probably believes you cheated on her or brutalized her. Indeed, he likely believed some terrible thing like that last summer when he first started trying to save her from your "abuse" (or whatever else she dreamed up). So give the guy a break. It won't be long before another guy is wanting to kick his ass so as to save her from his alleged abuses.

 

Its hard not to think of him with disgust cause he actively persued her for around 6-8 months of our relationship, she was very trusting throughout as when I'd get paranoid, id see any convos they may have had on fb, and she never flirted once , but he did.

 

Also, I was her first time, and the thought of her doing that with someone else just tears me to pieces, after all the promises she made. I dont think i could everl ook her in the face again if i find out shes done it with him which most people would say she has done by now. Urgh hurts to write that.

I hate the guy. (and her)

[Rap17]

Interesting reads Downtown. I have already read the first two articles you linked, while doing research on the subject, (nice to be reminded by rereading them). The last one however, the silent treatment one, was new to me. It seems that what she describes is a bit extreme compared to my situation, but I suddenly remembered something that I had forgotten that happened last year.

 

One night my ex came home from work and was in a bad mood. Not angry but seemed frustrated and didnt really wanna talk about it. Said she just had a stressful day. When we got into bed she layed on her side, away from me. I tried to fall asleep, but I could tell that she couldnt fall asleep either. Then I heard she started sobbing, but she tried to conceal it, I could tell. I asked her what was wrong and she wouldnt talk about it, said I shouldnt mind her, but ofcourse I couldnt resist. (Btw, she has done this a handful of times during the relationship). I kept asking what was wrong, asked if I had said anything that made her sad, done something wrong. It was nothing of the kind. In the end I got so fed up and frustrated with her not being open to me, that I just said "Im not up for this!" and rose to my feet, annoyed and pondered sleeping on the couch.

 

Her immediate reaction was to break down crying heavily and told me not to go. I went back into bed, we talked, seemed it was some past issue that had popped into her head. Something about her being sad about the issue with her mom, but I got no details. I comforted her and after a while her mood got better. The following times this happened, my reaction was different. I would calm her down on the spot and shed be more open, although when I think about it, she never gave me many details about her past. I never wanted to push for answers, I figured shed tell me when she was ready, and I told her that I was always there to listen to her past if she needed to let it out. She never truly did. A little bit in increments, but I never got a clear picture. Fits with her trust/guilt issues.

 

Funny thing is, when these things happened, (amongst others), she would seem almost like a child, like a little girl. I did become aware of this fact, but I always shrugged it off as PMS, normal female emotions etc. Also, (especially in the first half of our relationship), shed begin crying during sex. The first time it took me completely by surprise. When this happened I always asked her if she was ok, if we should stop and so on. She told me it was just because it was so great, that she felt so happy, that I was very considerate of her when in bed together. This seems to fit what shes hinted at during the long post breakup talk. That men has treated her badly when she was a teen, that all men were bastards and so on. I also think this is one of the reasons she said I was different from the others, but I can only speculate. To me its just natural, I always make sure the woman is comfortable, never rush things much.

 

But the times when I´d had to be a little bit insistent on her opening up and telling me whats wrong has been quite many. Its hasnt started many arguments, but it has for the most part felt as if I had to push her a little bit, in a caring manner. Its been rare that she has sat down with me and just opened up without me asking first, often asking continually.

[bl22]

btw rap sorry to kinda hijack your thread but it seems were both going through the exact same thing here, so i know how it feels and do wants answers myself like you.

[Rap17]

Its hard not to think of him with disgust cause he actively persued her for around 6-8 months of our relationship

 

My situation to a tee. I really understand what youre feeling mate. Gotta admit though, Ive never had reason to believe that she spoke harshly about me behind my back. When I overheard the conversation they had together she seemed to not blame me for anything, but I didnt hear all of it. It was like she blamed herself for everything, and that I wasnt to blame at all, but of course I didnt hear the whole conversation. I heard what he said of me however, and I still feel like kicking his ass. Felt good confronting him with it, even though she had told him I knew about it.

 

Mutual friends would sometimes tell me that she had talked about us not having enough sex, and that she wanted me to be jealous and stuff. She had spoken to one particular mutual friend quite often about this, which he sometimes reminded me, but he also understood my situation, that it was the same for him in his relationship sometimes. Also, she would sometimes bring up small guilt stuff in the last phase of our relationship, like why I sometimes didnt respond to a text she sent in the evening, (when I was asleep and didnt respond to when I woke up since Id be seeing her at Uni in the morning, an hour after I woke up). It didnt happen a lot, and when she made me aware of it being a problem, I would change and respond appropriatly, responding to the texts when I woke up, even though the subject of the message wasnt relevant no more.

 

What was most frustrating though was, that she always brought these things up with mutual friends, almost never face to face with me. I mean, how can I change something she wasnt happy with if she never let me know? I have always been willing to fix things, (within reason ofc), even the smallest details, if it would make her happy. Never been a problem for me.

 

But again, I never got the sense that she said hateful things about me behind my back, never heard anyone speak of such things. But as you can see, she did point out things she wasnt happy with, just rarely to my face. Frustrating hearing it from a friend, maybe weeks after she had spoken to him. The sex thing she did bring up several times though, but I have already touched on that subject earlier in this thread. She was so addicted to the intimate relationship we had, almost as if nothing else could truly make her feel "whole" or something. Trust me, I understand the importance of intimacy in a relationship, but somehow I feel as if it was a bit out of proportion with her.

[Rap17]

btw rap sorry to kinda hijack your thread but it seems were both going through the exact same thing here, so i know how it feels and do wants answers myself like you.

 

No worries mate, you can post all you want. Were all here to get help and gain knowledge bro

 

Im still curious if I should respond to the message she sent me the other day though. Yes, it will be breaking NC I know, but if she was thinking about me and worrying about me,(her words), I feel like crap for ignoring it. Help in this department would be most welcome.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Rap17

[bl22]

No worries mate, you can post all you want. Were all here to get help and gain knowledge bro

 

Im still curious if I should respond to the message she sent me the other day though. Yes, it will be breaking NC I know, but if she was thinking about me and worrying about me,(her words), I feel like crap for ignoring it. Help in this department would be most welcome.

 

i know what you mean, im gonna feel like crap if i ignore her birthday just because she spent like 300 quid on mine and it was only in july. Then again, if i ignore it, she might think im moving on (which i am) and start to miss me, they only start to miss you when they think your not there anymore. Theres presents here as well which id bought her, i know she'd have LOVED them, no1 else is going find better presents than what i bought. damn its gutting she wont get to see them.

[Downtown]

Rap, at the moment I'm reading B122's many posts that began in his thread started four weeks ago. So I won't give you the long answer. The short answer is exactly what every other respondent has said: DON'T CONTACT HER. As to the "crap feeling," don't react mindless to it like a child. That's exactly what BPDers do.

 

Instead, challenge it with your intellect (something you are an expert at doing because you normally go to the other extreme of ignoring your own feelings). Then watch it evaporate eventually. But face the fact that, no matter what you do, you are going to feel like crap for months. But it will gradually fade away. And your crying bouts are not over. They will keep occurring but what will happen is that they will become further and further apart.

 

A relationship with a BPDer -- particularly for a caregiver like you -- is so damaging that it can take months to fully heal. Because I was in a 15 year relationship, it took me two years of reading and healing before I even recovered my desire to date again.

BI22, you raise very interesting questions. I will respond to you in the "Full Story" thread you started last month. You are correct, of course, that you and Rap are going through the same terrible pain and loss. And you both were dumped without advanced notice in a heartless manner. I nonetheless am not finding any substantial behavioral traits (in your description of your exGF's behavior) that closely match strong BPD traits.

 

Perhaps I am overlooking something. Still, being dumped so abruptly is not, by itself, an indication of strong BPD traits. Indeed, that behavior is so common among 22 year old people that -- when you get older -- you will realize it is a big risk to marry anyone before they are in their late 20's, or at least 25. In the early 20's, most people are still changing greatly in their values and goals.

[bl22]

Thanks for the replies Downtown, very much appreciated

[Rap17]

Thanks Downtown. I guess I just cling to the hope that shes not a BPD, that Im seeing things that are not there, and that theres a possibility for reconciliation down the road, if I play my cards right.

 

I have been totally open and honest in this thread, but I also know that emotions can cloud one´s judgement, like my last post is clearly an indicator of. Yes, she definantly has problems, and I guess I do too. But damn, everything just felt so right, so great.

 

If the possibility for reconciliation occurs, Im honestly quite sure Im willing to risk it. It might be a deadend, but thats love for you. Im willing to fight teeth and claw for those I love, and right now NC is my weapon of choice. Mainly for my own sake, with the possible effect of also making her miss me and see the light. Either way, Ill be in a better position than I am now.

 

Also, its important to note that we do attend the same Uni both of us. One of these days Im going to bump into her, it will be unavoidable. Im sure shell come to me and ask me how things are, and I will have to respond in some way. So, in essence, NC is not forever for me, its simply impossible, studying in the same building.

 

It complicates things and makes this process much much harder than it would usually be. It feels like neverending torment, with my intellect telling me to take breaks from the pain once in a while.

 

And what if Im wrong? What if shes not sick? Im definantly a caregiver, no questions asked. But what if it turns out I was just trying to find desperate answers to a desperate situation? I can sense in my gut Im right, everything just adds up. But damn...

[Downtown]

Oopps, wrong thread. I cut and pasted it to B122's thread.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Downtown

[Downtown]

Thanks Downtown. I guess I just cling to the hope that shes not a BPD, that Im seeing things that are not there

Perhaps so. And perhaps I have mislead you. Please remember that I have not been describing your exGF. I've never even met her. So what I was describing is the typical behavior associated with the behavior pattern YOU are describing. I therefore have have two objectives. My paramount goal is to persuade you to stay away from her so you will be safe. My other goal is to persuade you to read more about BPD so you can decide, for yourself, what type of behavior pattern you've been seeing for two years. (My underlying goal is for you to acquire sufficient information to avoid running into the arms of another dysfunctional woman, a mistake we caregivers are prone to make.)

 

You are well positioned to make that judgment because you know your exGF a thousand times better than anyone else. Of course, you cannot make a diagnosis. But identifying basic human behavioral traits is not difficult. You would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to recognize strong selfishness, all-or-nothing thinking, emotional instability, lying and deception, lack of impulse control, abusive language, inability to control emotions, and fear of abandonment.

 

Significantly, if your exGF has occassional BPD traits, please do not rush to the conclusion that she has a strong pattern of them. As I observed yesterday in B122's thread, every adult on the planet exhibits all nine BPD traits occassionally. And, when we were young children, we exhibited them all day long. This is because such traits arise from primitive emotional defenses that are essential for our survival.

 

Rap, do you remember the time your were driving on the highway and suddenly realized that you could not recall seeing anything in the last ten miles -- not even the three lighted intersections you had to have passed through? And do you remember the time you walked to the kitchen and, on opening the refrigerator door, suddenly realized you had no idea what it was you had gone to the kitchen for? Well, both of those instances constitute "splitting" (i.e., dissociation) -- a hallmark of BPD traits.

 

What happened was that, as the conscious part of your brain was daydreaming a thousand miles away, the subconscious part of your brain was driving you safely through three intersections and, later at home, was walking you carefully to the kitchen refrigerator. This process is called "splitting" because those two parts of your mind were temporarily "split," i.e., out of touch with each other. Of course, it is normal for folks to do such splitting every day, perhaps day dreaming many times in one day while they are walking or driving.

 

Consequently, even the most exotic of the nine BPD traits -- splitting -- is a very natural and common process. Indeed, like the other traits, it arises from a fear-response essential to our survival. Hence, when you look up to suddenly see a truck bearing down on you in the crosswalk, you would be a dead man if you handed the emergency over to the logical, rational part of your mind.

 

Fortunately, you cannot do that because your brain is hard wired -- when suddenly startled or scared or very angry -- to split off the connection to the logical part so that the mind has to rely, instead, on the black-white thinking produced by the intuitive, childlike part of the mind. The beauty of all-or-nothing thinking, of course, is that it is extremely rapid.

 

This means that BPDers do not suffer from some weird other-worldly traits. Instead, they differ from the rest of us by degree. That is, they rely far more heavily on the primitive emotional defenses because, when they were 3 or 4, they likely experienced a trauma that forced them to use those primitive defenses very intensely in order to survive.

 

The result was that they continued to hold onto those defenses for dear life and thus never did move on to mostly replacing them with more mature defense mechanisms (e.g., self soothing). That, at least, is the current theory for explaining that aspect of their behavior. I mention all this, Rap, to caution you against jumping to conclusions about your exGF's BPD traits.

But what if it turns out I was just trying to find desperate answers to a desperate situation? I can sense in my gut Im right, everything just adds up. But damn...

Silly man. You don't realize it, but -- since your were a boy -- you had a combination of intuitive insight and over-analytical thinking that gave you extraordinary perception of other peoples' feelings and motivations. From all your pain and suffering in the ongoing mess, you are going to walk away with a keen insight into human nature and emotional frailty that few men achieve in their lifetimes. You likely will achieve a gut-level understanding of the human condition that far exceeds what you will be learning in five college courses about dysfunctional children. But it probably will be another six months before you realize that.

 

The process has already begun with your reading about your exGF's seemingly disordered traits. Yet, achieving a reasonable understanding of BPD and NPD traits on an intellectual level is the easy part. You can do that in a few weeks. What is far harder is being able to internalize that information so you believe it to be true at a gut level -- a process that converts simple knowledge into wisdom.

 

That process may take you six months because what is required is for the logical, rational part of your mind (i.e., your "adult") to convince the intuitive part (i.e., your "child") that what you learned is true. That takes time because your child probably lags at least six months behind your adult. Moreover, your child learns primarily from intense feelings, not from pure logic like the adult. And, because you now have intense feelings out the wahzoo, your child will be getting the education of a lifetime over the next six months.

 

Because I had been in a 15 year relationship, it took me about two years to bring my child's feelings into alignment with my adult's understanding. After just two weeks of intense reading on the Internet, I had a pretty good understanding of what I needed to do to get out of the toxic relationship and why I needed to do it.

 

Yet, because my child lagged far behind my adult, the child sabotaged my every effort to break away. It hindered me with nagging doubts, terrible guilt, and a strong feeling of obligation. It kept telling me that the theory floating around in the adult part of my mind was an insufficient basis on which to wholly abandon a loved one. This sabotage by the child is why breaking free from a dysfunctional person is really a process, not a single event.

 

Even after I had left my exW, for example, I still refused to go NC for eight more months, at which point I finally realized she is incapable of ever being my friend. Eventually, however, my adult dragged my child -- with him kicking and screaming every inch of the way -- to that shocking truth. How do you accomplish that? How do you teach a child -- who had felt for forty years she was my best friend -- that she never had that capability?

 

To bring the child and adult into alignment, what helped me a little was talking about my new found knowledge to anyone who would listen. Well, that was good for a week. Then their eyes glazed over. So what helped the most was coming to a forum like this where I could discuss it with people who had been there, done that. Significantly, that helped my mind to associate feelings with each of the intellectual thoughts. That has to be done because, as I noted, the child learns primarily from emotional experiences.

 

Writing and talking will help you internalize the information, turning knowledge into wisdom -- by connecting thoughts to feelings. If you doubt that, simply ask any university professor about its effectiveness. They will quickly tell you they never had an intuitive, deep-level understanding of their subject matter until they had to teach it to someone else -- or had to write it down very precisely when doing research.

 

Hence, what I found most helpful is talking about it to anyone who listens and writing about it to anyone who writes back. I therefore believe you are going to be fine, Rap. Indeed, you are going to come out of this painful mess far stronger and wiser than you were going in.

 

As to the "going in" part, Rap, you've been a caregiver since you were a boy. This means that, even before your new windfall of unwanted knowledge, you were already very empathetic and analytical about your relationships with other people. I therefore believe that, for one lucky person, you are going to be an exceptionally good husband -- for several others, a wonderful father -- and for several thousand children, a compassionate guidance counselor.