Nice guys finish last.

[tojaz]

Learned a valuable lesson over the past few weeks. Probably a long time coming, but still took me by surprise.

 

For months now I had been hanging on to my ex-wifes settlement check. Not maliciously, but more that I for some reason felt like there was something I needed to say or do, perhaps some kind parting words, or something. Im not really sure what I was expecting to come up with, but after filling the check out in july, I still didn't want to lose that connection on as bad note. Silly I know, but it was me trying to be a decent guy, wanting to part ways on good terms or at least with some kind words between us rather then her just trying real hard to pretend like I had never existed aside from owing her the money.

 

Then Today I learned the valuable lesson that nice guys truly do finish last. It truly doesn't matter how good you try to be to the people you care about because you can easily become a villain in the blink of an eye. A perfect saint, or at least trying to treat someone well, you step out of line and your out on your azz, regardless of past history. Sorry but its a fact.

 

I found myself in that situation a number of times recently. First a dear friend whom i had always tried to treat well, with respect, and as much care as i have to give, chose to edit me from their life for a minor infraction that i am not even guilty of! All the good that I try to share is just so easily wiped away over a small moment in time. No chance to plead my case, nothing. Step out of line and your out, simple as can be what was makes no difference.

 

Sadly i have found i have many friends like that in my life. That I have been used up and then so easily cast aside, with every action and every intention hidden in doubt that I must be a wolf in sheeps clothing when i fail to be flawless, or attentive enough, or that I should dare but my needs on the table along side theirs.

 

Today i have finally met my breaking point. When my would be brother in law, who I have been providing for in some hard times, from a roof over his head to a car to drive, has disrespected both me and my sister by cheating while living under my own roof.

 

I feel awful for saying it, but I can take no more! I've reached a point where i have nothing left to offer, nothing left to give, and as i find myself in that situation, i also find myself standing alone. battered, bruised, and taken advantage of.

 

Im sorry, but I'm empty. Used up to the last drop and no clue what to do or where to go. In the end, the ex has it right. I do not exist now that i have nothing left to give.

 

TOJAZ

[skydiveaddict]

You are right, nice guys do finish last, but don't give up hope my friend, you will come through this.

[skydiveaddict]

You are right, nice guys do finish last, but don't give up hope my friend, you will come

[skydiveaddict]

sorry double post

[goingstrong]

T,

 

your right nice guys do finish last. That why you have to have bad boy, A****** streak to your persona..it keeps the ladies guessing and interested.

[Crusoe]

I feel awful for saying it, but I can take no more! I've reached a point where i have nothing left to offer, nothing left to give, and as i find myself in that situation, i also find myself standing alone. battered, bruised, and taken advantage of.

 

Im sorry, but I'm empty. Used up to the last drop and no clue what to do or where to go.

 

TOJAZ

 

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on!”

[Steadfast]

A fairly common problem to those who see themselves as 'givers'. The problem lies not in the giving, but the motivation. Control can be masked as giving. For others, giving makes up for a lack of self esteem; used to fill what's missing inside. The problem is what happens when the gift is no longer valued or the giver -for whatever reason- runs out of gifts. When it's exposed, anger and depression follow.

 

True giving is selfless. Be it your time, care or something tangible like money, the gift should be given as an expression of your feelings for them. A true giver neither expects or demands anything in return, but sincerely hopes the gift will help. Gifts like these are usually appreciated more.

 

Another aspect the giver must face is trying to help someone that doesn't want to be helped. The unwise giver is duped into thinking they're filling a need, when they are really fulfilling a want. The taker (or user) will gladly accept but resist any correction or advice. When the giver realizes they are enabling and pull away the taker will be angry and lash out, but those words bounce off the person who is properly motivated. All that's left is the hope your example might show them the error of their ways.

 

There is a huge difference between doing good and being good.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Steadfast

[willowthewisp]

Tojaz,

 

There will always be people who will take advantage of you and abuse your kind and generous nature. I know, I have been on the recieving end of it many, many times.

 

What your would be brother in law has done is use you, pure and simple, he didn't wnat to leave your sister because he wanted what you were providing for him, so he cheated.

 

This "dear friend" though, why were they so dear to you? If you thought so highly of them do you really think they have the type of personality to use and abuse you? You say there was some "minor infraction" that you weren't guilty of? If this friend has cut you out of their life over whatever it was, then they can't be seeing whatever it was as minor can they? What you percieve as minor sounds like, from your friends reaction, to be something very serious in their mind.

 

Just because someone has reacted the way they have does not necessarily mean that they never cared about you or that they used you for their own gains. Things are often much more complicated.

 

Don't become anyone that you are not or change yourself because of the way some other people have choosen to treat you, that would be a loss to those deserving of you if you did.

[karnak]

Learned a valuable lesson over the past few weeks. Probably a long time coming, but still took me by surprise.

 

For months now I had been hanging on to my ex-wifes settlement check. Not maliciously, but more that I for some reason felt like there was something I needed to say or do, perhaps some kind parting words, or something. Im not really sure what I was expecting to come up with, but after filling the check out in july, I still didn't want to lose that connection on as bad note. Silly I know, but it was me trying to be a decent guy, wanting to part ways on good terms or at least with some kind words between us rather then her just trying real hard to pretend like I had never existed aside from owing her the money.

 

Then Today I learned the valuable lesson that nice guys truly do finish last. It truly doesn't matter how good you try to be to the people you care about because you can easily become a villain in the blink of an eye. A perfect saint, or at least trying to treat someone well, you step out of line and your out on your azz, regardless of past history. Sorry but its a fact.

 

I found myself in that situation a number of times recently. First a dear friend whom i had always tried to treat well, with respect, and as much care as i have to give, chose to edit me from their life for a minor infraction that i am not even guilty of! All the good that I try to share is just so easily wiped away over a small moment in time. No chance to plead my case, nothing. Step out of line and your out, simple as can be what was makes no difference.

 

Sadly i have found i have many friends like that in my life. That I have been used up and then so easily cast aside, with every action and every intention hidden in doubt that I must be a wolf in sheeps clothing when i fail to be flawless, or attentive enough, or that I should dare but my needs on the table along side theirs.

 

Today i have finally met my breaking point. When my would be brother in law, who I have been providing for in some hard times, from a roof over his head to a car to drive, has disrespected both me and my sister by cheating while living under my own roof.

 

I feel awful for saying it, but I can take no more! I've reached a point where i have nothing left to offer, nothing left to give, and as i find myself in that situation, i also find myself standing alone. battered, bruised, and taken advantage of.

 

Im sorry, but I'm empty. Used up to the last drop and no clue what to do or where to go. In the end, the ex has it right. I do not exist now that i have nothing left to give.

 

TOJAZ

 

Tojaz, my brother, sorry, but you're wrong.

 

Nice guys only finish last when they deal with people who are scum.

 

Been there, done that. I know exactly how you feel.

 

Throughout my life I've been used and abused, robbed, tricked, etc...

 

I felt exactly the same way you do now. EXACTLY!

 

I asked myself: "WHY WHY WHY?

 

I asked myself that question for these last 5 years.

 

I finally reached a conclusion (only very recently, mind you).

 

THE ANSWER: If you play with fire, you are sure to get burned; if you join with the wrong people you are sure to get into trouble.

 

I've never robbed, cheated, tricked, etc... nor do I intend to. So, in the end you just have to find people like me (excuse me if I sound pretentious), decent honest people.

 

There are lots of honest people out there. But trust me on this: Crooks, cheaters and all other kinds of selfish bastards are masters of manipulation and trickery (no wonder the popular culture has always described the Devil as the master of lies and manipulation). Most deceivers are usually very charming and sociable people (just read all the posts concerning the social attitude of cheating spouses in general).

 

I bet most of the decent and honest people you know are sometimes treated by society as loners, crazy, or even rude persons (because they usually say what they think, regardless of the outcome or social standards or rules).

 

Choose carefully who you associate with in the future, Tojaz. And you'll be A OK.

 

I'm talking from experience here, man.

 

Strong hug to you.

[iheartboobs]

As a rule, I agree that nice guys do finish last. In my experience, when I'm not concerned with being nice to people, things seem to work out just fine, but when I try to be a nice guy, I get kicked in the ass. Every time.

 

Maybe karnak's right and I do just associate with the wrong people, but it seems to me that if that's the case, then the world (or at least, my little bit of it) has significantly more jack-holes than decent people in it.

 

Also, I think there's a difference between being a "nice" guy and a "good" guy. I'm just naturally what I consider to be a "good" guy which means no lying, cheating, stealing, etc. unless there's a really good reason (and I don't consider "doing otherwise would be a slight inconvenience" to be a really good reason, unlike most people I know) and I value honor and loyalty very highly in myself and others. On the other hand, I've never really been a particularly nice guy and I don't value the traits of "nice" people that much. I'd rather have someone honestly tell me something that they know would be difficult for me to hear than to lie to my face in order to spare my feelings.

[carhill]

OP, my sympathies. Excise these Hoovers from your life and share the gift of your generosity with more deserving and appreciative humans.

 

The lesson is feeling the 'suck' of the Hoover sooner. This keeps your d*ck out of the cyclone bag. Or something like that

[karnak]

 

Maybe karnak's right and I do just associate with the wrong people, but it seems to me that if that's the case, then the world (or at least, my little bit of it) has significantly more jack-holes than decent people in it.

 

 

I wouldn't properly consider them "jack-holes" or evil. I see them more as characterless, selfish people.

Meaning: when things are good and profitable they are nice, good people.

when things begin to get sour or start to get hard - they bail out.

 

The way I see the world is:

 

10% - really good and nice people.

 

10% - really bad and sick people.

 

80% - selfish people.

[Crusoe]

The way I see the world is:

 

10% - really good and nice people.

 

10% - really bad and sick people.

 

80% - selfish people.

 

We either live in very different parts of the world, or view it through very different eyes. I see the vast majority of people as good, and try to never allow a little bit of bad in a person to distract me from the fact that most of them is good. Also, if someone does me wrong, I don't take it personally. Not unless they purposely set out to hurt me, and very, very few people do that.

 

Nice guys don't get kicked in the arse or crapped upon any more than I do. Life does that to everyone, be they nice or nasty.

 

You know why "nice guys" finish last? It's because they take it personally, they take it to heart, they take knocks hard and are slow to get up again. They need to learn how to roll with the punches and bounce.

 

TOJAZ, you're a lovely fella, one of the best. You've been caught with a sucker punch, take your 8 count, come back out fighting and prove to us that nice guys don't have to finish last.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Crusoe

[sumdude]

Rough times for you Tojaz.. I can empathize. Not long after my divorce it seemed like half the people I knew turned their backs on me, crapped on me, blamed me for things I never did. I know I was changed some but not that much. Over time you'll figure out who your friends really are... and you'll have to make new ones.

 

"In the clearing stands a boxer

And a fighter by his trade

And he carries the reminders

Of ev'ry glove that layed him down

Or cut him till he cried out

In his anger and his shame

"I am leaving, I am leaving"

But the fighter still remains..."

[karnak]

Also, if someone does me wrong, I don't take it personally. Not unless they purposely set out to hurt me, and very, very few people do that.

 

.

 

Man, you're either a very lucky guy, or you're the Incredible Hulk.

[trippi1432]

Tojaz - As one of your friends I will say this, you are and always have been a stand-up guy, someone who cares for and values people for who they are, not what they are. It's easy to get knocked down because we invest ourselves in the people we care about, and if we are lucky, we get that back. But yes, there are times when we don't....nobody gets 100% all the time.

 

Friends come into our lives and teach us things we didn't know about ourselves, and they are even there to disagree with us...challenge us even, to change our perspective...I know that as you have helped me change mine and made me a better person for it. It would be so easy to give up, stop being the nice guy...but that isn't you.

 

If a friend kicks you to the curb over a minor infraction, in my experience, a true friend will see that and be back...not for what you give them but because the friendship is that important to them....because YOU are that important to them.

 

Was your future BIL a problem, certainly...and you do what you have to do because you have the right to be respected in your own house. Family is family. People show us a side every day that we don't know...both the good and the bad unfortunately.

 

And, I'm sorry, but your ex is dead wrong...you have a lot to offer...you do exist and there will be someone who sees that in you, who will know that you are worth spending their time with because they know you for the amazing person you are. Don't ever let someone make you feel less than that...because you are good enough just as you are....

Edited November 9, 2010 by trippi1432

[You Go Girl]

Now Tojaz,

we've had a few really good conversations on this board together. And I know enough about you to kick you when you are going down this pity party road.

You're a terrific guy. So quit this woe is me stuff.

 

The ex is just that--the ex. She sure doesn't sum up who YOU ARE.

 

I'm sure it was painful to send that final check...letting go.

And I'm sure that this so called friend ending your relationship unfairly hurt like hello. Dealing with these two things at the same time has clouded your vision of who you are.

However, neither of these things sum up who you are. You're a giver, I know because of all the things you've posted on LS.

 

Ever heard the saying "no good deed goes unpunished" ? Sit back and mull over it awhile. You might have been helping someone who, despite being self-destructive perhaps, didn't want help, but wanted to continue on their train wreck? I don't know the details, so that's a guess.

 

Just remember that people are unfairly punished in life all the time for trying to do good.

 

Meanwhile, there are those who love you. Gravitate to them right now, because focusing on these other relationships that aren't working or have ended is bringing you down. Go grab a real hug from someone who is a positive in your life.

And here's a virtual one...HUGS!

[r_b]

Tojaz, you say you consider yourself a good man...and then say you are holding on to your wife's settlement check?

That's a major contradiction.

[tojaz]

Tojaz, you say you consider yourself a good man...and then say you are holding on to your wife's settlement check?

That's a major contradiction.

 

Hmmm, not sure if i should feel honored that a troll took the time to register for this forum only to leave this message, or just very very sorry for you that you have nothing better to do with your time.

 

For the record, her check is not due to her until early next year but i sent it early so that she could have the cash for the holidays, the reason why was stated in my original post.

 

For everyone else, I appreciate the responses, and a lot of different points of view being voiced here.

 

Im not talking about give and take, or reward, or any of that, so much as it is, simple respect I guess. having people in my life that I always try to give my best and yet they continually expect the worst is just around the corner. Much like my friend r_b above here. All I said was that I had a check I hadn't sent yet, yet the assumption is that something malicious is going on. Not a big deal for some random troll on a forum, but imagine if that was a friend, someone close to you.

 

For me, I don't just call anybody a dear friend, thats a label that has always been reserved for someone who has touched my life, the kind of person that you would walk across broken glass to stand by their side, and thats how i've always tried to treat those close to me. Also the reason I don't feel like Im dealing with scum, as was suggested, quite the opposite in fact, all the more reason for felling so lost lately.

 

Oh, and update here. Cheating BIL and my sister... back together after giving him the boot and forcing him to get his act together. Me? Well, Im the bad guy that put him in his place. :o:o

 

TOJAZ

[You Go Girl]

You know better than that, Tojaz.

You're sis, eh, she's going to do what she wants to do.

You were there during the tough times, now it's back to status quo, and that makes you a bad guy.

Whatever!

You keep plugging along being YOU.

[LittleTiger]

Tojaz, I realise we haven't had many interactions on here, so compared to some on LS I'm a relative stranger to you.

 

However, I wanted to let you know, there are a only a handful of people, amongst the many hundreds of regular posters on here, who I have an enormous amount of respect for............and you are one of those people.

 

You are without doubt, 'a nice guy'. If you've read any of my posts you'll know I mean that as a compliment and I think it's a great shame there aren't more 'nice guys' like you in the world. During my time on LS (I've actually been around since early 2009) I can honestly say I have never come across a more caring and genuine person than you. I have watched you give your unending support to some very weak and damaged people and have marvelled at your wisdom and your strength. Please give yourself credit for being who you are.

 

Sadly, there will always be people who misunderstand us or look for the worst. These people are the ones who are really going to finish last. Being a winner in life is about growing as person and becoming the best you can be. I think you've got a head start on that. The people who really deserve a person like you in their lives will understand you and appreciate you. I sincerely hope that, one day soon, you will learn to appreciate yourself.

 

You're a special man, Tojaz. Other people do not define who you are. You alone define who you are. Here's a (((hug))) from someone who thinks you deserve the best.

[Nemicron]

Dude I'm sorry I understand your hurting any eveything But and I'm a nice guy tm aswell. Or whatever its callled. But Dont need another add alot of the guys in this site have already frosted the ladies. lol they will tear into you if your not careful. ( no offense ladies ) Just if you want to actual;ly learn any sort of suggestions either read the past threads or your welcome to message me I'll try and help you out.

 

 

 

 

Learned a valuable lesson over the past few weeks. Probably a long time coming, but still took me by surprise.

 

For months now I had been hanging on to my ex-wifes settlement check. Not maliciously, but more that I for some reason felt like there was something I needed to say or do, perhaps some kind parting words, or something. Im not really sure what I was expecting to come up with, but after filling the check out in july, I still didn't want to lose that connection on as bad note. Silly I know, but it was me trying to be a decent guy, wanting to part ways on good terms or at least with some kind words between us rather then her just trying real hard to pretend like I had never existed aside from owing her the money.

 

Then Today I learned the valuable lesson that nice guys truly do finish last. It truly doesn't matter how good you try to be to the people you care about because you can easily become a villain in the blink of an eye. A perfect saint, or at least trying to treat someone well, you step out of line and your out on your azz, regardless of past history. Sorry but its a fact.

 

I found myself in that situation a number of times recently. First a dear friend whom i had always tried to treat well, with respect, and as much care as i have to give, chose to edit me from their life for a minor infraction that i am not even guilty of! All the good that I try to share is just so easily wiped away over a small moment in time. No chance to plead my case, nothing. Step out of line and your out, simple as can be what was makes no difference.

 

Sadly i have found i have many friends like that in my life. That I have been used up and then so easily cast aside, with every action and every intention hidden in doubt that I must be a wolf in sheeps clothing when i fail to be flawless, or attentive enough, or that I should dare but my needs on the table along side theirs.

 

Today i have finally met my breaking point. When my would be brother in law, who I have been providing for in some hard times, from a roof over his head to a car to drive, has disrespected both me and my sister by cheating while living under my own roof.

 

I feel awful for saying it, but I can take no more! I've reached a point where i have nothing left to offer, nothing left to give, and as i find myself in that situation, i also find myself standing alone. battered, bruised, and taken advantage of.

 

Im sorry, but I'm empty. Used up to the last drop and no clue what to do or where to go. In the end, the ex has it right. I do not exist now that i have nothing left to give.

 

TOJAZ

[sedgwick]

T,

 

your right nice guys do finish last. That why you have to have bad boy, A****** streak to your persona..it keeps the ladies guessing and interested.

 

VOMIT.

[willowthewisp]

 

 

Oh, and update here. Cheating BIL and my sister... back together after giving him the boot and forcing him to get his act together. Me? Well, Im the bad guy that put him in his place. :o:o

 

TOJAZ

 

It souns to me like it is time for your sister to stand on her own two feet and deal with the consequences of her choices next time, alone. I hope that you have asked the pair of them to leave your home now? If you haven't already then I would strongly suggest you do, your sister is entitled to make her own choices and she is also responsible for clearing up any mess those choices make.

[trippi1432]

Tojaz - There are times in everyone's life that we have a friend or two that seem to want everything from us...Sometimes we don't always get back as much as we give, but we give anyway because that is who we are...be it our friends, our family or someone we care deeply for. It doesn't make you a bad guy because your BIL needed to get his act together and you had to stick up for your sister, her honor even.

 

Simply put, you got caught in the middle...not just because you are a nice guy, but because the two of you are siblings and you are the protective brother....nothing wrong with that at all. If either of them are making you out to be the bad guy, it's typically due to insecurity with their own situation, easier to blame someone else for their anger than to look at themselves. It will blow over once they learn to stand on their own two feet.