let me play a violin for the cheater

[YellowShark]

First of all people don't choose who they fall in love with. I know it sounds silly to get involved with someone who is not available but it happens in a way that you loose control of your judgment and cool reasoning.

 

Actually you do choose who you fall in love with. It's series of very conscious choices to go from zero interest, to being involved in an affair.

 

My thinking is that...when you begin an affair or start to realize it is a possibility...you accept the circumstances and the risk.

 

I agree. The WS makes a choice to have, and continue, with an affair. It's not an moral obligation to have an affair. The "it just happened" rationalization is simply a cop-out from the ownership for making real and very conscious choices.

 

My problem lies with...that risk, the bulk of it....is that its someone else , someone not involved in the decision...that is the one who suffers the consequences of the risks taken.

 

Once again I agree. The BS is thrown under a bus because of the choices the WS made. The WS's emotional and financial partner - the BS - is impacted without their knowledge. For me there is no defense for such a selfish, cruel, and heartless act.

[confusedinkansas]

They act that way online because that's how they act in real life.

 

Does your comment also go the other way? Those that are 'bashers' ( :confused:sorry honestly can't think of another word, I tried) act this way in real life as well?

 

I have no issues with someone telling like it is....cuz I'm kind of like that too. But to just be mean & hateful...? That's kinda sad.

 

Sometimes I wonder.....Would some of you/us/me REALLY say the things in real life that you say here? Face to face??

[BB07]

Every person involved in an affair makes a series of CHOICES in order to GET there.

This is true.

 

I have zero compassion for those people who post on message boards crying about their 'heartbreak' brought on by an affair - an affair THEY CHOSE to engage in - every step of the way. And when others won't cry along with them because it went down in flames (gee, who couldn't have predicted THAT???) we're mean and heartless.

Well I do have compassion......been there, done that, but I suppose if your only experience is on the other side of the story then it's easy to not have compassion.

 

ACCOUNTABILITY, folks. Learn the word.

I am accountable.......thank you very much.

 

First of all people don't choose who they fall in love with.

I disagree East, we do, little steps at a time, but we do.

 

I know it sounds silly to get involved with someone who is not available but it happens in a way that you loose control of your judgment and cool reasoning.

The WS role is crucial in the sense that as long as the WS shows love and attachment, the WS "validates" the actions of both, not to mention the WS who complain or say they don't love their spouses anymore which is another confirmation in OM's mind that he is not breaking a relationship which is already broken.

In OM's mind, he deserves this woman as she has emotionally chosen him upon her husband (whether it is true or not). A woman who cheats, has emotionally dumped her H even if she goes on living with him married.

All this perspective, VALIDATION (of his actions) and emotional comfort, lead the OM to think that he is not doing something wrong, that he can have this woman in his life and share his life with her (talking about single OMs)

You painted IMO an accurate picture of some of the dynamics that go on, wrong or right, what you said allows us to make excuses for our behaviors, even lie to ourselves.

 

 

Most of OM/OW who come on the board to get support, is because their pain is real and they have not used the MW/MM for fun but because they were truly in love and had the illusion of a happy ending. If it was for fun, no one would waste his time to get support once the A ended.

The above is true and as it's been said, it mostly depends on which side of the fence you've been sitting on as to how little or how much compassion various posters have although it's not a hard and fast rule. There are some posters who have been BS's who have an insight and a lot of compassion and then there are some former OW who seem not to have much. I don't know why......but that is the way it seems to be.

 

To answer your question, my quess is that the "cheaters" would say that this is a support forum, not an accountibility forum.

Actually it is a support forum, but of course that allows for comments from all walks of life and actually I'm glad that it is lightly moderated and that posters aren't prohibited from speaking no matter what background they have. Personally I really dislike those hit and run types, but it happens.

 

I got a nice reminder from Tony that we are not here to make people feel bad.

I don't think making someone feel bad accomplishes anything, it's just a turn off and makes them defensive and it kinda negates the good stuff offered.

 

Because a great deal of society looks down upon infidelity. This site is made up of all kinds, so it alway suprises me when someone gets upset over what they perceive to be judgment. I guess it goes back to the judgement vs validation argument. Many come here for validation, not support.

True about society looking down on infidelity. Regarding your observation about judgment vs validation, it's all in how the op perceives it and of course it has to do with how the poster words it.

 

Totally disagree with the bolded. It is a choice from the very beginning and all along the way. No disrespect, but saying "I just can't help it" is IMO another way to avoid accountability.

Again, I think the "I can't help it" statement is bs.

 

 

Yeah I know what you mean.

 

My thinking is that...when you begin an affair or start to realize it is a possibility...you accept the circumstances and the risk. And thats ok, its up to you...thats not my problem with the thinking. My problem lies with...that risk, the bulk of it....is that its someone else , someone not involved in the decision...that is the one who suffers the consequences of the risks taken. Thats a given. Whats hard to understand about that.

As a former OW, I minimized the bs and bought into the bull****e he was selling.

 

When you decide to do it, you have to acknowledge that you understood the risks to yourself and to the other people involved...and you just dont care. You think its worth it. Thats how you operate.

I admit it......I did that.

 

Doesnt sound good does it? Well, thats because it isnt.

And of you are ok with that...fine. Own it.

No it's not good and I'm not proud of it, and I do own it. That mistake will not be repeated because it's wrong for me.

 

All of the justifications, excuses, and reasons in the world translate very simply to: I understand the risks to others and myself and I dont care because this is what I want to do.

Yep I was selfish and I wanted what I wanted and I'm not making excuses but I got a big snow job and I thought his circumstances were unique and it wasn't just another one of those cheating stories. Yeah he made it unique, but he lied.

 

 

East7, thanks for your honesty.

 

I cannot help but wonder if these seemingly unhappy MM/MW, who in 95% of the cases TRY to return to that horrible marriage after stringing along the vulernable and needy, subconciously know that from the start?

Maybe sometimes they do Spark and what does that say about the MM? Pretty low I would think uh.

 

Like a hunter surveying the herd and immediately knowing the weakest one, the one most likely to respond to their advances?

 

Because they can put out that "I am unhappy and ready for an affair" vibe all they want....and people with stronger boundaries and less instability would just shoot them down or ignore them.

 

I admit it.......I did not have good boundaries and even though I started that with him under circumstances in that I thought he was separated in hindsight I still didn't have the boundaries that I should have to say whoa......this is probably not a smart decision and it's much too risky.

 

 

And is that love? Or is that selfishness?

 

I suspect sometimes it's some of both and always with a large serving of selfishness.

[Ballerfamily]

Did you choose to love your college crush, your BF, your husband ?

If yes, bravo, you have a very "professional" way of loving people.

 

I love the person not her professional, social or marital situation.

 

But I did learn my lesson : NEVER again someone who is already committed in another R. NEVER!

 

In my case, I DID tried to stop it in the early stage, but my beloved MW kept flirting and talking with me and I guess somewhere on our road there was a "no-return point".

 

Being a BS, I appreciate your thoughts.

 

Knowing the anger that went through me on D-day, how do you OM's not worry about your health. All it would have took is my ex's OM to be at the wrong place at the right time. I've never understood not looking at the possible consequence's. There are to many nice OW's out there, then to risk an affair and my life and well being. Does this not enter the mind?

 

It can't be that important, can it? Whats the attraction to a cheating MW?(easy conquest, I get that) I Cannot figure that out? Is sex worth the risks?

MW with issues oviously. I will never get this through my head. Me, I would be running for the hills. But then I'm marriied or was. lol

Edited November 9, 2010 by Ballerfamily

[East7]

Thank you for your response because I think it typifies the sort of counterintuitive thought process that irks dexter morgan.

 

First, dexter did not "direct" the question "to OM/OW." He used the third person, "their," not "your", when asking about the thought processes involved;

 

I got it! Actually asking other BSs "what is going on their heads?" is wondering or venting ? How would they know if they have never been in the OM/OW shoes ?

So do you want an OM honest answer? I answered.

 

 

You speak of "falling in love" as if it's some kind of abstract state of being which randomly happens to people. I don't happen to think that's true even most of the time, for most people. However, even if it is true, for at least some people--what of it? Let's say you magically fall in love with an OM/OW (or with a married person if you are an OM/OW). Taking any action in response to "falling in love" is certainly the result of conscious decision-making.

 

Well, we can philosophize for hours but I truly loved my MW. I can sound very naively romantic but YES Love happens my friend, I was thinking and dreaming about her 24/7 for months, I was sometimes dumb and couldn't focus on anything. That's why I keep thinking LOVE is NOT A CHOICE, I tried to get over her but when you are overwhelmed with feelings you become addicted. It would have been much more easy to go if she said "I don't love you, you are wasting your time". But instead I had "I love you-s, I miss you-s".

It is so easy to judge other people's feelings without knowing the circumstances, what made them "fall" for each-other.

Just because Love happens within the "affair frame" it doesn't mean that it didn't existed.

 

 

On the contrary, both parties to the affair KNOW they are doing "something wrong," i.e. something which violates some moral or ethical or marital boundary. There is no need to conceal that which we do not believe to be a "wrong" action. In spite of being well aware that what they are doing is "wrong," people involved in affairs make a cold calculation that by doing even more wrong--continuing to deceive their spouses--the cost/benefit analysis as they see it, makes it "worth their while" to be wrong-doers. In other words, it's not that they don't know that it's "wrong"--it's that they are willing to behave in an essentially amoral manner. They believe that whatever consequence they may have to suffer does not outweigh the perceived benefit, to themselves, of the affair.

 

I guess you will be living better if you settle in IRAN. You will enjoy throwing stones to all this amoral people who dared to fall in love with someone married;

 

Relationships are not bulletproof. We dump and get dumped. Love isn't a choice, fidelity is !

Fidelity is a choice to those who are committed, a contract to those who signed for it,... not to OM/OW, your neighbors, friends or any other people.

Edited November 9, 2010 by East7

[Dexter Morgan]

And this may seem foreign to you but they too are in REAL PAIN or ANGUISH over all aspects of their situation.

 

because of their own despicable actions. others are in pain and anguish through no fault of their own and aren't helping, or directly hurting someone in real life.

 

This is YOUR truth-- it may not be THE truth!!

 

oh no, its the truth alright.

 

 

What I would like --is to know what is the point in putting all this truth into WORDS for the OM/OW, there is no hope for them in your eyes to be reformed or change their ways because they are cheaters for life, so why do you spend so much energy telling them about their wrong doings?

 

because they, you, whoever, come here being a complete jerk to someone in the real world, and want us to coddle you? Ya I know, you'll say that isn't what you want, but lets be real here.

 

And I am not sure all BS’s are victims, or appreciate being called victims, some of them are survivors.

 

all BS's are victims initially.....but its what they do once the shock is over and they can stand up and think clearly after the fact that makes them shed their victim status.

 

With that said anyone can be a victim until they change things for their self, so are you saying anyone that chooses to stay with a cheater—chooses to stay a victim?

 

not really, someone who stays with a cheater can make the decision to stay, but not let the cheater walk all over them anymore.

 

Now I'd say there is a better life out there for the BS, but they can grow backbone and lay the smack down as far as not letting a cheater screw them over again without sever consequences.

 

I guess I will close on this note:

 

As much I strongly disagree with your opinions most all of the time, I do respect them and I do think you have a way with words that is valuable in all forums, you have helped me to see that I can stay open minded and remember I am human and make mistakes and hurt people, and am forgivable, as long as you are not the only judge.

 

 

So thank you for your input and your thread, no violins for me please I perfer the bass.

[Dexter Morgan]

WIB said, 'I have zero compassion for those people who post on message boards crying about their 'heartbreak' brought on by an affair - an affair THEY CHOSE to engage in - every step of the way. And when others won't cry along with them because it went down in flames (gee, who couldn't have predicted THAT???) we're mean and heartless.'

 

The only heartbreak that I feel like crying over because of my affair is that which my actions caused my wife to feel. I can't imagine the WS's who feel they have the right to mope around bemoaning their fate.

 

at least you are putting your effort and thought where it belongs...with your wife.

 

but too many here sit and cry to us about how they can't get over their lover and don't mention a word about their spouses. ......then get all offended when someone tells it like it is. it can be something as simple as, "grow up and quit acting like a schoolkid with a crush and focus on your husband/wife"....and we get, "how rude, I didn't ask that".

[Dexter Morgan]

As the question is directed to OM/OW, I'm willing to give my POV.

 

First of all people don't choose who they fall in love with.

 

yes...we can. and there is no way I'd fall in love with someone that shows me that they will cheat.

 

 

I know that for you a "good" OM would tell the WS : "Look, I love you but you are doing something wrong to your H. Go back to him and don't contact me again" but the world we live in is not so perfect. People put their feelings and needs upon someone else's needs, especially if they are comforted in their actions.

 

oh I agree, I just don't want to hear any bitching and moaning about the fallout later.

[Dexter Morgan]

Oh Dexter, I heart you so. I really wish I had come to this site sooner. Members like you could have really helped me see my way clearer a whole lot sooner.

 

To answer your question, my quess is that the "cheaters" would say that this is a support forum, not an accountibility forum.

 

ya, but too many of them seem to think this is a "support to help the affair thrive" forum.

[Dexter Morgan]

Does your comment also go the other way? Those that are 'bashers' ( :confused:sorry honestly can't think of another word, I tried) act this way in real life as well?

 

I only bash if someone decides to put themselves in my world that are cheaters or OM/OW.

 

I have actually been hit on twice when one was cheating on her husband and the other was a known husband f####r.

 

with the cheater, I was out with some friends, I go to the bar, and she comes up next to me to order a drink. I knew who she was, she knew I was divorced(like it would have mattered to her) and started talking to me. It wasn't a few sentences in when she suggested that we "get out of here".....her husband had just lost a leg in an accident about a year before, I told her, "I don't know whats worse, losing your leg, or having a cheating wh0re for a wife"...and walked back to where my buds were.

 

the OW actually, like a child, had some other woman come up to ask me if I liked her, I said, "not really". As I was sitting with friends I didn't want to get into the whys, i wasn't there to look for someone.

She asked why and I said I'd rather keep it to myself right now. She kept on me as to "why" and I said, "because she goes around spreading her legs for other womens' husbands".

 

She goes back, tells her friend, and she comes back to the table and says "f##k you" and leaves. to which I turned to my friends and said, "no....she won't"

[Dexter Morgan]

Does your comment also go the other way? Those that are 'bashers'

 

 

see, thats just it...we get all this crying about "bashing", yet those that cheat on their spouses, or sleeping with someone elses are in a sense "bashing" the spouse....and in a helluva lot worse way than anything that can go on in this forum.

[TheMENemy]

Fidelity is a choice to those who are committed, a contract to those who signed for it,... not to OM/OW, your neighbors, friends or any other people.

 

OK so you helped your "beloved" break her marital contract by cheating with her?

[fooled once]

What is it about cheaters, or OW/OM that knew ahead of time they were messing around with someone elses spouse, that can basically destroy someone's world, inflict real life pain.....but when someone in a forum like this calls them on their hypocrisy, bulls###, or self-centered character.....then its just an absolute crime.

 

he/she who hurts people in real life look real silly claiming offense when someone puts the truth out there in words.

 

I just wanna know what gets inside their heads....they go out and f##k with someone's life...then come here and get offended when they meet people who aren't sympathetic to their less than sympathetic attitude towards their real life victims.

 

Yes, many like to be the victim after being dumped "how could he/she"; "didn't he/she love me" "he/she promised we would be together", blah blah blah

 

Funny how that works, isn't it?

 

Every person involved in an affair makes a series of CHOICES in order to GET there. It doesn't just happen by osmosis. I've lost count of the times I've read, "it just happened!!"

 

No, it DIDN'T just happen. You made an active CHOICE to allow it to happen, and did many things along the way to nurture it in order to make it a reality.

 

I have zero compassion for those people who post on message boards crying about their 'heartbreak' brought on by an affair - an affair THEY CHOSE to engage in - every step of the way. And when others won't cry along with them because it went down in flames (gee, who couldn't have predicted THAT???) we're mean and heartless.

 

Whatever. If I CHOOSE to drive drunk, then I deserve whatever happens to me. If you CHOOSE to engage in risky, unprotected sex, then you deserve the consequences. If you CHOOSE to actively be in an affair with a married person, then you deserve whatever comes your way.

 

ACCOUNTABILITY, folks. Learn the word.

 

Good post. I engaged in an affair. I own it. I was naive and stupid. I learned from it.

I think many simply treat the message board as an "affinity group" not as a method of trying to change for the better. They are here to converse with other like minded individuals and are resentful of those who are not like minded.

.

 

I do think that some OW want to convince others in a bad situation to stay - birds of a feather, kinda thing. They want more in their club. Ridiculous, I know. But when I see encouraging someone to stay in a miserable situation, I am stunned by that.

 

I came to this site because a friend gave me the link. I read mostly in marriage and parenting - didn't realize there was an OW/OM forum. When I started reading it , it was like a train wreck - can't stop looking. I was blown away by some posts.

[2themoon&back]

I own all of my choices --- I do not blame anyone else for my choices not even xMM, he did not control my mind, I made some good choices and some bad ones and I have learned from both.

 

I am very accountable; because no one made me do anything I was not willing to do and nothing just happened to me.

 

I choose to be the OW and I have always owned that fact, to anyone and IRL, not just here, and with the BS. I do have remorse for these choices and

I am not proud of them, but I still have to own them and live with them.

[YellowShark]

see, thats just it...we get all this crying about "bashing", yet those that cheat on their spouses, or sleeping with someone elses are in a sense "bashing" the spouse....and in a helluva lot worse way than anything that can go on in this forum.

 

It really boils down to this. What's worse, calling a spade a spade on a message board? Or having an affair while throwing one's unsuspecting emotional and financial partner under a bus?

 

I've seen that some posters at Loveshack will say the former... while other posters will say the latter.

[wheelwright]

I own all of my choices --- I do not blame anyone else for my choices not even xMM, he did not control my mind, I made some good choices and some bad ones and I have learned from both.

 

I am very accountable; because no one made me do anything I was not willing to do and nothing just happened to me.

 

I choose to be the OW and I have always owned that fact, to anyone and IRL, not just here, and with the BS. I do have remorse for these choices and

I am not proud of them, but I still have to own them and live with them.

 

Like your posts 2themoon. Honest and reasonable.

[wheelwright]

It really boils down to this. What's worse, calling a spade a spade on a message board? Or having an affair while throwing one's unsuspecting emotional and financial partner under a bus?

 

I've seen that some posters at Loveshack will say the former... while other posters will say the latter.

 

Like the new under a bus reference going on.

 

Previously it was OW/OM under a bus, BS gaslighted. I think this is a VERY fair point. BSs are under a bus if WS leaves - unless BS kicks them out that is. Then pretty much everyone is under a bus -kids included. DDay hell. APs should have had the foresight to have hindsight.

 

Water under the bridge (or bus) for many who come to LS.

 

But that positive input aside, I am not sure we should be looking at this as a comparison of bad behaviours.

 

'Yeah but you did that first, and that was worse!' Sounds like my kids...(who are of course beautiful and wise with it -to a degree).

[wheelwright]

What is it about cheaters, or OW/OM that knew ahead of time they were messing around with someone elses spouse, that can basically destroy someone's world, inflict real life pain.....but when someone in a forum like this calls them on their hypocrisy, bulls###, or self-centered character.....then its just an absolute crime.

 

he/she who hurts people in real life look real silly claiming offense when someone puts the truth out there in words.

 

I just wanna know what gets inside their heads....they go out and f##k with someone's life...then come here and get offended when they meet people who aren't sympathetic to their less than sympathetic attitude towards their real life victims.

 

Depends.

 

Sometimes posters just tell it how they see it.

 

Sometimes posters try to mess with vulnerable people's headf**ks.

 

As I see it, former is always Ok, latter detectable and unpleasant.

 

And people in pain deserve to be heard and talked up to the point where they are beyond redemption.

 

Whatever the crime.

 

There are some people out there in the world who I would consider beyond. They are not cheaters. They are people who order genocide. Or orchestrate p****phile gangs. Etc.

 

I like that there are people here who bash me for lack of remorse, who remind me to see my H's POV. It's an important part of my internal dialogue. I wrestle with it. That's the point of coming here.

 

But if in my more vulnerable moments no-one had stuck up for me - particularly Pureinheart here, because she disagreed with something I did but understood why I needed to do it better than anyone IRL ever did - I would not have come away as strong. And I am a mother. I need to be strong.

 

If we pull people to pieces and no-one sympathises, what about that knock on? The dependants? The parents? The friends?

 

What about their broken life, that they know they broke, and deserve?

 

Are you in favour of the death penalty for murder by the way?

 

Cos we may fall out on that one.

[PegNosePete]

BSs are under a bus if WS leaves - unless BS kicks them out that is. Then pretty much everyone is under a bus -kids included. DDay hell.

BS are under a bus whatever happens, through no fault of their own. If a BS kicks a WS out then the WS can't claim they were pushed under a bus; they jumped under the damn bus themselves, when they f**ked someone else.

[confusedinkansas]

see, thats just it...we get all this crying about "bashing", yet those that cheat on their spouses, or sleeping with someone elses are in a sense "bashing" the spouse....and in a helluva lot worse way than anything that can go on in this forum.

 

You're right. The "bashings" that one gets here is small in the big picture of life (especially since we don't know each other personally & can be more candid)

 

Those that "stick together" as many have said here stick together because we know, we've been there, we come here with isight that the cheater at the beginning of their road may not have. So me, being way past the end of the road with my affair, have things to say that someone may not have thought of. If that's "Sticking Together" then yep we do & we should. - I think everyone deserves a little sympathy/empathy when they are in pain. Even if someone makes bad choices they deserve to be heard.

 

Everyone has the right to their own opinion on matters. Thank Goodness. But for the adulterer (especially here) they aren't heard for the most part. They are forever marked with the scarlet A. No matter what the issue. How fair is that?

As humans, even if someone makes bad choices, (see, didn't use the word mistake:)) shouldn't we have some sort of sympathy?

[YellowShark]

Everyone has the right to their own opinion on matters. Thank Goodness.

 

That is the wonderful thing about this message board. It is very healthy to see both sides of the coin, even if one doesn't agree.

 

But for the adulterer (especially here) they aren't heard for the most part. They are forever marked with the scarlet A. No matter what the issue. How fair is that?

 

Depends. One should call a spade a spade. And unless you are from another planet, or a complete sociopath, everyone knows that cheating on your spouse and family IS wrong. It's wrong the first time you do it, or the 2nd time you do it, or the third time you do it.

 

As humans, even if someone makes bad choices, (see, didn't use the word mistake:)) shouldn't we have some sort of sympathy?

 

IMHO no. The WS KNOWS what they are doing is socially inapropriate and has the potential to harm many other innocent unsuspecting people. Yet they chose to do it anyways. The "it just happened," or "my BS forced me into the arms of another" rationalizations are simply a cop out from making MANY willful, conscious decisions.

 

I can see a scenario where having sympathy for someone who steals to survive. But affairs have nothing to do with survival, they are not a life and death situation. They are a willful act in disregard of the effect it has on people who are closest to you. It's an entirely selfish, self-serving series of conscious choices.

[thomasb]

YS, I completely agree with your post. We all make our own choices. Which is why I hate it when people rationalize or excuse their own bad behaviors and choices. Own up. If you made a bad choice or wrong decision man up and try to make it right. Lord knows, you really can't change what you have already done. But, you can try to make reparations.

[confusedinkansas]

YS, I completely agree with your post. We all make our own choices. Which is why I hate it when people rationalize or excuse their own bad behaviors and choices. Own up. If you made a bad choice or wrong decision man up and try to make it right. Lord knows, you really can't change what you have already done. But, you can try to make reparations.

 

Very true! - As long as you're not posting here.

Because there is 0 tolerance & 0 "forgiveness" or trying to see the other side of the coin here. Which is why when I've personally tried to post here on OTHER issues besides the infidelity....I'm still stricken down. The infidelity ALWAYS comes up, like it's the reason for EVERYTHING in my life this many years later. Which isn't true.

 

I can see a scenario where having sympathy for someone who steals to survive. But affairs have nothing to do with survival, they are not a life and death situation. They are a willful act in disregard of the effect it has on people who are closest to you. It's an entirely selfish, self-serving series of conscious choices

 

Stealing to survive is still a choice. Stealing is just as wrong.

 

Yes adultry is selfish. Very selfish. And, I know that many here don't want to hear "Reasoning or Rationalization" because they think that the adulterer is making an "EXCUSE" for what they did - As for life & death.....Depends on who you ask. For some, the affair did help them survive a bad time in a marriage. (Whether it's right or wrong)

[Spiritgirl]

Dexter, Im really sorry that your wife was a jerk and hurt you. I think what you went through sucks. However, there comes a time to forgive and move on. You seem to go out of your way to chastise and berate any and all OW on this board, even when you dont know the whole story. Does that make you feel better? It seems like you are on some sort of mission to cut down any woman that you can who seemingly has done what your wife did to you. That in my opinion is no way to heal. And by the way, once a cheater always a cheater is so not true. My aunt and uncle met during their awful marriages and they have been together 25 years and are still in love.

Good luck to you. I know you will just respond defensively to this post, but hopefully, when the time is right, you will TRULY start to heal.

[JustJoe]

CIK, as a former "OM", I think your problem isn't that you cheated as much as the fact that you haven't completely "come clean", about it to your Husband. You are still keeping secrets from him, and to the vast majority of BS posters, that is the inexcusable part.