let me play a violin for the cheater

[JustJoe]

Example: The wife of one of my NCO'S had an affair. She was a very sweet, pretty, and shy, Christian Lady. Her husband was a total redneck *********. He treated her like a slave, she bore his kids, kept his house, and fixed his meals, because that is what her religious upbringing told her she should do. If she rebelled she was threatened, choked, and beaten. She wanted to go to community college to better herself, but there was never enough money or time for her. There was plenty of money for beer and her husband's toys, however. She met another soldier at the launderette, and he told her she was pretty and deserved better, so she began an affair, that lasted until her husband was discharged for domestic abuse, and she married her lover, and they are very happy. Should she have divorced him sooner, probably, but her religion forbade it, and fear for her safety. He treated her like a dog, and eventually she fought back, using whatever weapon she could. I don't blame her one little bit.

[NoIDidn't]

Example: The wife of one of my NCO'S had an affair. She was a very sweet, pretty, and shy, Christian Lady. Her husband was a total redneck *********. He treated her like a slave, she bore his kids, kept his house, and fixed his meals, because that is what her religious upbringing told her she should do. If she rebelled she was threatened, choked, and beaten. She wanted to go to community college to better herself, but there was never enough money or time for her. There was plenty of money for beer and her husband's toys, however. She met another soldier at the launderette, and he told her she was pretty and deserved better, so she began an affair, that lasted until her husband was discharged for domestic abuse, and she married her lover, and they are very happy. Should she have divorced him sooner, probably, but her religion forbade it, and fear for her safety. He treated her like a dog, and eventually she fought back, using whatever weapon she could. I don't blame her one little bit.

 

Wait. Wait. Because he told her that she was pretty and deserved better, she started an affair with him? That's it?! That was all it took for her to have an affair with him?

 

Wow.

 

And seriously, Joe. I have to laugh at the "but her religion forbade it" comment. Because her religion also forbade cheating but obviously that didn't stop her from cheating, now did it?

 

This wasn't fighting back. Fighting back is demanding respect by not enabling bad behavior. Nope, what she did was allow herself to get beat down and never fight back to the point that she started to feel that cheating was a more viable option than something more honorable.

 

I have a lot more respect for the person that says they did it because they wanted to, not a roundabout saying "he made me do it".

[dreamingoftigers]

Example: The wife of one of my NCO'S had an affair. She was a very sweet, pretty, and shy, Christian Lady. Her husband was a total redneck *********. He treated her like a slave, she bore his kids, kept his house, and fixed his meals, because that is what her religious upbringing told her she should do. If she rebelled she was threatened, choked, and beaten. She wanted to go to community college to better herself, but there was never enough money or time for her. There was plenty of money for beer and her husband's toys, however. She met another soldier at the launderette, and he told her she was pretty and deserved better, so she began an affair, that lasted until her husband was discharged for domestic abuse, and she married her lover, and they are very happy. Should she have divorced him sooner, probably, but her religion forbade it, and fear for her safety. He treated her like a dog, and eventually she fought back, using whatever weapon she could. I don't blame her one little bit.

 

You know what? I don't blame her one bit for finding better circumstances for herself. But there are better options then stepping outside. She should have kicked him to the curb, no Christian religion would have asked her to continue to endure that and to cheat instead.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

second, the only part of the story I need to know is if the OW/OM knew the person they were bedding down is married.

 

if they continue on a path where they don't care about who they hurt in the process, yes. Too many people here don't give a crap who they hurt and can't seem to take criticism or the cold hard truth about things.

 

yes, it is. even if someone doesn't actually ever physically cheat again, its in their character and the desire to mess around with new people doesn't go away, they just supress their actions. hence...still a cheater

 

It would depend on what a cheater was made of: is it a character problem, a genetic compulsion, or are incapable of empathy, mis-wired neurology, unable to understand how to foster and create healthy intimacy?

 

I have a hard line on cheating as you well know. It is not justifiable and it causes DEEP PSYCHOLOGICAL HARM to both the betrayed party and the fallout for any children involved. Even if it just means one parent is depressed/raging for awhile.

 

If it is a genetic compulsion, I would say that this would not be changeable (I have yet to hear this link though).

 

If it is because the individual is incapable of empathy there are new therapies that have been in use for sociopaths that are actually starting to show results.

 

If it is a chracter flaw then a cheater can change but that change would require 1) time 2) realization 3) consequence 4) substantial growth. I know that my character has grown substantially in the last 2 years as I have discovered strengths and depth to myself that I wish I didn't have to discover. It has made me colder to people's bs, but less likely to produce my own. (I am not a cheater in fact I crave the depth of a relationship).

 

I have noticed changes in my husband's character and a want to be a better human being for his daughter. He does not want her to end up with someone like him. Someone that can cause her pain and anguish like he caused me. He does not want to be someone full of shame anymore. I believe a person's character can grow when they face their own adversity. The cheater's problem is entirely inside themselves and their context of the world and what they give themselves permission to do.

 

If a cheater looks inside their problems instead of trying to escape them, often they can develop some confidence to deal with their problems further in life and they they lose the compulsion to escape from them with other partners. Not a high percentage of them do this, but it does happen.

 

Mis-wired neurology due to trauma and childhood abuse can be about 80% corrected with EMDR. This takes time and is expensive as well, but can do wonders. It can help the BS get over a lot of the traumatic issues that the WS has caused for him/her.

 

Cheaters can change and not be so triggered by their compulsions. Just like some alcoholics can drop the drink and never pick it up again and some need constant support. Sometimes even the recognition that they were escaping their problems and totalling their lives is enough (but not often).

[JustJoe]

Wait. Wait. Because he told her that she was pretty and deserved better, she started an affair with him? That's it?! That was all it took for her to have an affair with him?

 

Wow.

 

And seriously, Joe. I have to laugh at the "but her religion forbade it" comment. Because her religion also forbade cheating but obviously that didn't stop her from cheating, now did it?

 

This wasn't fighting back. Fighting back is demanding respect by not enabling bad behavior. Nope, what she did was allow herself to get beat down and never fight back to the point that she started to feel that cheating was a more viable option than something more honorable.

 

I have a lot more respect for the person that says they did it because they wanted to, not a roundabout saying "he made me do it".

NID, if a dog-owner beats and abuses his dog, and if another person comes and offers love and rewards, which person will the dog go to? This was just an illustration showing that ALL BS'S aren't victims, or guiltless.

[dreamingoftigers]

NID, if a dog-owner beats and abuses his dog, and if another person comes and offers love and rewards, which person will the dog go to? This was just an illustration showing that ALL BS'S aren't victims, or guiltless.

 

Does this mean all WS are like dogs? Just kidding.... kind of

[JustJoe]

No, but sometimes they are treated that way.

[bentnotbroken]

NID, if a dog-owner beats and abuses his dog, and if another person comes and offers love and rewards, which person will the dog go to? This was just an illustration showing that ALL BS'S aren't victims, or guiltless.

 

 

No we aren't guiltless in creating problems in a marriage...but here is the playground mentality. They did it first. I should have been arrested for abuse. I should have been divorced before he cheated and I am a big enough girl to say my contribution to marital problems in no way absolve him of cheating. Just as my not cheating in no way implies that he was a good spouse.....he wasn't. His form of abuse could have not only cost me my life with something incurable...he held the instruments that I was using to slowly kill myself.

 

Why don't all abused spouses cheat? Why don't all spouses who are mistreated in some shape, form or fashion cheat? Why is it cheating is used as a way to escape some inexcusable harm but not all do it?

[bentnotbroken]

No, but sometimes they are treated that way.

 

 

And some earned the privilege of being treated the way they act. When you(general) act like you(general) are in heat and screw anything with a vagina that moves...I would call it a dog.

[desertIslandCactus]

NID, if a dog-owner beats and abuses his dog, and if another person comes and offers love and rewards, which person will the dog go to? This was just an illustration showing that ALL BS'S aren't victims, or guiltless.

 

The thief who took my things from storage most likely convinced himself that he needed ownership of My property .. more than myself ..

 

I think problems within a marriage can be 50 - 50 percent .. It is for the spouse to divorce first if being physically abused.

 

Adultery within a marriage just carries forward with that spouse if they should remarry .. The new marriage - created from adultery, is adulterous.

[JustJoe]

No we aren't guiltless in creating problems in a marriage...but here is the playground mentality. They did it first. I should have been arrested for abuse. I should have been divorced before he cheated and I am a big enough girl to say my contribution to marital problems in no way absolve him of cheating. Just as my not cheating in no way implies that he was a good spouse.....he wasn't. His form of abuse could have not only cost me my life with something incurable...he held the instruments that I was using to slowly kill myself.

 

Why don't all abused spouses cheat? Why don't all spouses who are mistreated in some shape, form or fashion cheat? Why is it cheating is used as a way to escape some inexcusable harm but not all do it?

I'm in no way disagreeing with you, BNB. What I AM saying is that every case is different and for us to generalize about the relative amount of guilt is short-sighted. In this woman's defense, she was threatened with death, if she told the police about her husband's abuse.

[JustJoe]

The thief who took my things from storage most likely convinced himself that he needed ownership of My property .. more than myself ..

 

I think problems within a marriage can be 50 - 50 percent .. It is for the spouse to divorce first if being physically abused.

 

Adultery within a marriage just carries forward with that spouse if they should remarry .. The new marriage - created from adultery, is adulterous.

DIC, I , in no way , agree with your religious assumptions.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm in no way disagreeing with you, BNB. What I AM saying is that every case is different and for us to generalize about the relative amount of guilt is short-sighted. In this woman's defense, she was threatened with death, if she told the police about her husband's abuse.

 

 

I was the one doling out the physical abuse so I understand the mentality of the person you speak of...I still don't see it. One is afraid of telling the police based on violence but not the same violence while cheating.

[BB07]

I'd like to offer this up in response to JustJoe's post about the beaten wife who ended up cheating.

 

First IMO, it doesn't excuse the cheating but I think it's difficult for a lot to understand how beat down and how low someone's self esteem is that has been abused, so any kindness from a stranger or someone known to them is a welcome reprieve. I can certainly understand how someone who had been beaten down would be a lot more likely to see an escape if someone else was kind to her.

 

Frankly........I'm glad the woman got out of her abusive situation and I don't care how she did it, the fact remains she got OUT and that is the most important thing.

[JustJoe]

I was the one doling out the physical abuse so I understand the mentality of the person you speak of...I still don't see it. One is afraid of telling the police based on violence but not the same violence while cheating.

Basically, BNB, her new BF would have kicked the crap out of her husband, if he lifted a finger against her. But we've T/J'd Dex's thread too much. Sorry Dex. Edited November 15, 2010 by JustJoe

[BB07]

I was the one doling out the physical abuse so I understand the mentality of the person you speak of...I still don't see it. One is afraid of telling the police based on violence but not the same violence while cheating.

 

 

She probably wasn't as afraid of the violence after the fact as she was before since she now had someone who she thought would protect her from it. After the cheating she had a protector so she didn't see the need to go to the police any longer.

Just thinking aloud here about the possibilities.

[JustJoe]

She probably wasn't as afraid of the violence after the fact as she was before since she now had someone who she thought would protect her from it. After the cheating she had a protector so she didn't see the need to go to the police any longer.

Just thinking aloud here about the possibilities.

Exactly right, BB07. She finally had someone to support her instead of choke her. What value does a marriage like that have? BTW, as her husband's commanding officer, I tried numerous times to get him to go to counseling and he wouldn't have it. If anyone wants to talk about this, PM me so as not to T/J any more.

[desertIslandCactus]

I'd like to offer this up in response to JustJoe's post about the beaten wife who ended up cheating.

 

First IMO, it doesn't excuse the cheating but I think it's difficult for a lot to understand how beat down and how low someone's self esteem is that has been abused, so any kindness from a stranger or someone known to them is a welcome reprieve. I can certainly understand how someone who had been beaten down would be a lot more likely to see an escape if someone else was kind to her.

 

Frankly........I'm glad the woman got out of her abusive situation and I don't care how she did it, the fact remains she got OUT and that is the most important thing.

 

At which time do people take responsibility for their own lives..

[desertIslandCactus]

Exactly right, BB07. She finally had someone to support her instead of choke her. What value does a marriage like that have? BTW, as her husband's commanding officer, I tried numerous times to get him to go to counseling and he wouldn't have it. If anyone wants to talk about this, PM me so as not to T/J any more.

 

At what point do people take responsibility for what they know.

[JamieA]

WTF (Why the F**k) do some people think that cheating is the ultimate betrayal when there is physical/mental abuse? Are people really that whacked? I don't get it. Some of you think that is worse than being beat and abused? Really?

 

Are you people for real? Do you hear/see what you are typing out here and it really makes sense for you?

 

Those who have never been in an abusive situation: It changes a person and makes them in a dark hollow hole where they feel like they can never escape. They are cast in a corner and stuck there to rot and wither up and die!......That's how they feel!

 

Any sign of hope or survival that comes there way....they will jump at it and take it for an escape. No one can know how that feels unless they have been there.

 

If that ends up to the fact the they "cheated" on their abuser, how can one blame them for taking that way out?

 

I don't get it....I really don't

[YellowShark]

If that ends up to the fact the they "cheated" on their abuser, how can one blame them for taking that way out?

 

I don't get it....I really don't

 

Cheating on your spouse is literally throwing them under a bus. There is no worse form of betrayal than throwing your emotional and financial partner under a bus... and frankly it is a hostile act against your spouse.

 

Now if we want to move the goalposts around and say that they cheated because they were in an abusive relationship, then it is still wrong to cheat. The abused person is now in a situation where they are abused at home, and living a double life outside the home. Which really really complicates life for them, and doesn't deal with the abuse at home.

 

So if we are going to move the goalposts and talk about abusive relationships then abused spouses need to deal with the abuse first, then get into another relationship second. Not get into a secret relationship first to escape the abuse at home.

 

Abuse is absolutely wrong, cheating is a form of abuse and also wrong. 1+1 doesn't equal potato.

[bentnotbroken]

WTF (Why the F**k) do some people think that cheating is the ultimate betrayal when there is physical/mental abuse? Are people really that whacked? I don't get it. Some of you think that is worse than being beat and abused? Really?

 

Are you people for real? Do you hear/see what you are typing out here and it really makes sense for you?

 

Those who have never been in an abusive situation: It changes a person and makes them in a dark hollow hole where they feel like they can never escape. They are cast in a corner and stuck there to rot and wither up and die!......That's how they feel!

 

Any sign of hope or survival that comes there way....they will jump at it and take it for an escape. No one can know how that feels unless they have been there.

 

If that ends up to the fact the they "cheated" on their abuser, how can one blame them for taking that way out?

 

I don't get it....I really don't

 

 

I have been on both sides. The abuser and the abused(yes I consider cheating a form of abuse). Not only do I recognize the mental barriers that exist for the victims of abuse I recognize it is deeply ingrained and literally paralyzing. My problem...if you can use your mental faculties to figure out how to lie, deceive, sneak around and cover for you actions....why can't those same mental faculties be used to hide money, sneak around to those who can ease you out of the situation.

 

It for me is what you are using your mental and emotional energy for. Getting away from the abuser or getting screwed by someone and going back home to get the hell beat out of you. I don't get it....I really don't.

[BB07]

At which time do people take responsibility for their own lives..

 

I'm not clear on why you are asking me this question in regards to my post that you quoted as I already said " it doesn't excuse the cheating" but I did say and I'll say it again I don't care how or why the woman got out of the abusive circumstances, I'm just happy that she got out.

[BB07]

I have been on both sides. The abuser and the abused(yes I consider cheating a form of abuse). Not only do I recognize the mental barriers that exist for the victims of abuse I recognize it is deeply ingrained and literally paralyzing. My problem...if you can use your mental faculties to figure out how to lie, deceive, sneak around and cover for you actions....why can't those same mental faculties be used to hide money, sneak around to those who can ease you out of the situation.

 

It for me is what you are using your mental and emotional energy for. Getting away from the abuser or getting screwed by someone and going back home to get the hell beat out of you. I don't get it....I really don't.

 

I'm going to take a stab at this Bent from the perspective of the woman that JustJoe mentioned OK.

 

First I do see your points but maybe one thing that you are missing is that this OM gave this woman more than just a screw......he gave her hope of a way out and from what Joe said, he gave her love, something she clearly wasn't getting from her ass of a husband. I'm just glad that the OM wasn't an ass and really did care for the woman because she was in a prime position to be taken advantage of by yet another man.

Hope and love vs abused. When you look at it with just those two differing factors involved it's not hard to see why and which she would choose.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm going to take a stab at this Bent from the perspective of the woman that JustJoe mentioned OK.

 

First I do see your points but maybe one thing that you are missing is that this OM gave this woman more than just a screw......he gave her hope of a way out and from what Joe said, he gave her love, something she clearly wasn't getting from her ass of a husband. I'm just glad that the OM wasn't an ass and really did care for the woman because she was in a prime position to be taken advantage of by yet another man.

Hope and love vs abused. When you look at it with just those two differing factors involved it's not hard to see why and which she would choose.

 

 

I really do understand what you and Joe have said. I really do. Abuse is one of the areas I have studied extensively(still studying)..as well as lived. Yes, her husband was(maybe still is) and ass and deserves to have his balls handed to him on a platter...........but for me the idea of thinking your way through an affair and not through leaving is an issue. I respect your opinion and I know you are sincere in your posts:) We just aren't going to see this one thing the same way.