I Want My Friend to be More Than a Friend. What Chance Do I Have?

[Trippitaka]

Hi, this is my first post here. There seems to be a lot of good advice knocking around, so I'm hoping someone can help me with my own little problem:-

 

I feel I need to tell the whole story. Just because I'm going out of my mind at the moment and need to tell it, even though there isn't much coming up that'll be too exciting for you! This may take a while, so I'm just hoping that someone is interested enough to read through it.

 

I met a girl at work, about six months ago, back in September. At the very moment we met I felt like I was struck by the proverbial thunderbolt. It sounds corny I know. The reason I mention this is that I'm the sort of person that has never believed in anything 'mystical'. I always felt that love, or what resembled it was just a mix of compatibility, like mindedness, sometimes lonliness and mutual familiarity. All the scientific things. I felt a connection though. A strong one that I didn't understand and my mind couldn't process. It was like I suddenly realised; 'maybe there is such a thing as the one.' In all my 28 years this has never happened to me before - even with the girls I have been with. I truly didn't think it existed.

 

Anyway, almost straight away I discovered that she was involved with someone. I knew little about him, but the relationship sounded quite serious and I'm the sort of person that would never either cheat or do anything with someone that would involve them cheating. I decided to put my feelings aside. Should be simple enough, I thought. It'd never been a problem before.

 

We worked together and during those first two or three weeks I realised that it was not just a physical attraction, she was the most fascinating person I had ever met and so easy to talk to. I still knew she was off-limits, but decided nonetheless that I wanted to be her friend. She seemed to like me well enough. I made her laugh, we had a lot in common. She even seemed flirtacious around me, although never overtly so.

 

We started going out together at lunchtimes, always just the two of us. This was normally at my request, and it felt a little odd as I had never actively tried to develop a friendship in such a conscious way before. At this point we were seeing each other just for a couple of lunchtimes a week. She had gotten a new job working at the other end of the building and so we didn't work together any longer. We would chat on email at work every day, though. Again, it would get slightly flirtacious, but nothing major.

 

As the weeks passed, my feelings for her grew and grew. I kept telling myself that we could only be friends, but containing my feelings became harder and harder. I also reached an interesting conclusion that my mind surprised me with. I realised one day that I cared so much for her that the most important thing to me was her happiness. If this meant her being with this other guy, and that was right for her, then that was right for me.

 

It wasn't until I'd known her for around three months that we started seeing each other outside of work hours. At this point, due to our mutual appreciation of movies, we started going out to the cinema together, normally coupled with some post movie drinking. As with lunchtimes, this was normally just the two of us. This was very sporadic, maybe once every week or two, and again, nothing out of the ordinary happened, except for my feelings for her which were growing day by day. I felt I would be able to talk to her all day and never get bored, never tire of her company. The boyfriend, incidentally, lived about 100 miles away so she only ever saw him at the weekends normally. In case you were wondering, this explains why he was never a factor in our socialising.

 

I'm coming to the point soon - trust me!

 

It all started to happen about five or six weeks ago. One Monday morning she emailed me and asked me to go to lunch with her. Quite an ordinary occurence, yet fairly unusual that she would ask me. That lunch hour she explained to me that her guy had admitted to cheating on her over the weekend and that she had left him. It should have made me happy, I guess, but seeing her as upset as she was just gutted me. I went without sleep for several days knowing that she wasn't happy. Regardless, from this moment I knew that I wanted more than just friendship from her and decided that I was going to try to do something about it.

 

It all felt a little tricky for me though. She meant too much to me for me to rush straight in when she was vulnerable. She meant too much to me too want to use any of the standard techniques like getting her drunk and seeing where I could get. I decided that the best way of handling this was to initially give her space, be her friend to help her through this difficult time and then, when the time seemed right, (I figured about a month or so) then I would just explain to her exactly what I was feeling.

 

During this time, we started seeing each other more. Normally virtually every lunchtime of the week. I started to look for what I would consider positive or negative signs. To me, most seemed positive. She would constantly ask me things, like what I thought about rumours in the office that we were seeing each other, (I figured she might have been subtly testing the water), she would ask what I thought about how she looked, (normally referring to a specific bodypart rather than clothes, etc,) she would talk about things she wanted us to do together in the future, when someone in a bar would ask her name, she would respond with both our names - "we're X and Y" rather than "I'm Y". Most importantly, I felt I always had her undivided attention - that she focussed solely on me when we were together. I was also conscious of the problems surrounding being too much of a friend, and becoming like one of her girlfriends that she liked to talk to. However, all this time I never felt like I was being the shoulder to cry on. Whilst I could see in her eyes how upset she was, she always put on a brave face around me, focussed on positive things, still cared for her appearence, etc, etc.

 

I know you're thinking that none of this means anything, and maybe you're right, but I felt the connection between us growing and I figured that if I could have feelings this strong, the like I've never had in my life, then it couldn't possibly have been all one way traffic. She must have been feeling it too.

 

Right, now to the point!

 

Last week, I told her everything. To be honest, much more than I has intended to say. I told her everything that I have said here and a lot more besides about exactly how much I liked her and that I wanted for us to be more than friends. Basically, in one swoop I unloaded what, for me, was a packed six months of emotion all in the space of less than an hour.

 

The reaction wasn't the best, and yet probably not the worst. She did list a lot of objections though, and give me a lot of reasons why it wouldn't be a good idea. All standard, expected stuff really. She cares for me too much to risk losing me as a friend. This has happened to her before with a friend and has gone wrong. She's not sure if she's ready for a relationship, etc, etc. I told her that if she wasn't ready or wasn't sure about me then I was prepared to give her as much time as she needs and asked that I just be given the chance to spend a lot more time with her and show her what sort of a guy I am, that I can be trusted and relied upon and how we could be great together and that I wouldn't dream of forcing the issue or doing anything untoward until I was absolutely sure she wanted to. At this point she also told me that she had met a guy and they had been on one date, but that it hadn't yet 'gone anywhere'. This didn't make too much sense compared to the 'not sure if I'm ready for a relationship' argument.

 

I know the score. I know there's a big possibility that she just didn't want to say to me "I don't find you attractive and it's never going to happen." So I tried to force this, or something similar out of her. I kept saying that if she tells me this is never going to happen then fine, I'll just walk away, but if there is a possibility if this developing in the future then I would be prepared to invest all the time and energy that was necessary, going at exactly the pace she wanted. Anyway, I couldn't get a straight answer to either. Instead I got many 'I don't knows'. I asked her about this other guy, whether she wanted to see him again - 'I don't know'. I asked whether me having had this conversation with her was likely to influence that - 'I don't know'.

 

She did tell me how I mean an awful lot to her, how we have loads in common and how I make her laugh, etc. She told me that her ex was very threatened by me because she talked about me all the time (no idea if that's a good thing or not.) She just kept saying, however, that I was so valuable to her as a friend and that she didn't want to hurt me or lose my friendship.

 

And that was it really. She said several times how 'freaked out' and 'overwhelmed' she was. How it was so unexpected, (despite the fact that I figured with my little subtleties I had made it perfectly obvious what I wanted some time before.)

 

We had this conversation right before she was due to go away on a week's holiday. This was by my design because first of all I thought that spending a week apart from her would be too much for me to handle without her knowing all of this and secondly, (and I said this to her) that she could use the week away, if she needed to, to either think what I had said through properly before she gave me an answer, or just to get an excuse to avoid me, if she needed to. So, I didn't really get a conclusive answer, although I was troubled by the fact that she never actually said the words "I need time to think about this" or anything similar.

 

This brings us up to date. Her holiday started yesterday, and we didn't speak about it any more in between time. I did see her and spend a little time with her the day following (her request), although I had made the resolution to not bring it up again until after she went away, unless she wanted it brought up. She didn't bring it up, she just acted as if nothing had happened. We had the same chat about this, that and nothing as always, I wished her a great holiday and that was that. It confused me that day that she seemed to have 'dressed to impress' when she came into work that day. I mean, she was wearing the tightest little top, low cut jeans, more make-up than usual, her hair done up nicely. If anything I thought that maybe she would have lost a bit of sleep over it, maybe had some drinks and wouldn't be looking her best. I don't know if that means anything, but I thought to myself, surely if she is trying to figure out the best way to tell me kindly that this isn't going to happen, wouldn't she either a) tell me that day or b) try to avoid me that day, (this wouldn't have been to hard - it's a large building and I made no attempt to contact her.) Also, if she was going to see me, I wouldn't have expected her to make an extra-special effort with her appearence like that - that just seems like being a tease, and I know she isn't that.

 

That's the end of my story. Right now I'm just going crazy trying to work out how I'll get through the next week being in this state of limbo. This is made all the worse by the fact that I figure deep down that I don't have much of a chance here. It is helping me already just writing all this here and getting it off my chest though.

 

So, if anyone's managed to read through the whole thing, I'd be most grateful if you could offer any thoughts on what you think may be going through her head, what chance you think I might have left, or any advice you may have on how I should handle this from here, (bearing in mind that I'll do anything in my power to give this a chance of working - I'm still confident that her doubts are partly down to her not yet having realised that her feelings for me are already there.) Also, not that it really matters now as what's done is done, but just out of curiosity, I'd also be really interested to know if you think I have already handled this badly or if there is anything I should have done differently.

 

I'm not sure what the proper definition of love is. All I know is that I have never before applied the term before where I am concerned and that I'd probably know it when it came along. I'm still not sure whether to use the word, as I had imagined that it would be based on complete trust, understanding, comfort, happiness, etc. These criteria don't yet all apply to me, but trust me when I say I don't believe that it will ever be possible for me to feel more strongly than this, about this girl or anyone else.

 

Many thanks for listening.

[dyermaker]

The thing about these kinds of relationships, friends who want more, are that they're based on a false and unrewarding pretense.

 

You're her friend.

 

You reconcile it with yourself that you'd be happy with being just her friend for all eternity.

 

But since it was based on the pretense of one day being in a romantic relationship with her, the above (^) is far from the truth.

 

Because you won't be a good friend if you're always yearning to turn it somehow into a romantic relationship, you need to be fair to both yourself and her.

 

Tell her, straight up. I'm into you, always have been, and want to give it a go.

 

If she agrees, there you have it, you're in.

 

If she deesn't, it's not a total loss--as you never had anything real to begin with. Being friends with her thereafter will seem awkward, which will contribute to your withdrawal from each other, but that's a good thing. Because it was either a fruitless, frustrating friendship that you reconcile false contentment with yourself--or nothing at all. Both kinda suck, but the latter opens you up to future happiness.

[Jane Woe]

You must be going through a lot emotionally right now.

 

If she chooses to be friends and nothing more - you need to make a decision on if you could do that.

 

Don't decide right away though. Take some time away from her. Still send an email now and then, but not every day. See her for lunch a few times a month, but maybe once a week or less.

 

Giving her some space may help her realize how much you mean to her. Distance often makes the heart grow stronger. (But don't rely on it! Have no false hopes).

 

Speaking from a similar experience, I had a friend like you. He meant the world to me and I wasn't sure what I wanted. When he stopped coming around, I realize how wonderful he was. I realized that I really missed him and wanted to see him. I called him for a date. Six months later we were engaged. I fell in love and we got married. (We're having some unrelated problems now - but they have nothing to do with your story)

 

If she doesn't choose a dating relationship - you need the time to think anyway.

 

Patience. We can't always have what we want when we want it - but maybe later it will work out.

 

Hope this helps.

J~W~

[Trippitaka]

It does help. Thanks for your reply. Good to know you don't think this is definitely over. I've had a couple of friends tell me similar things, but I'm never sure if they're just saying that because they think that's what I need to hear, so I felt there was a better chance of honesty from strangers on a forum such as this.

 

If anyone else has any thoughts, incidentally, I should emphasise that you should be as brutal with me as you feel is necessary. If there are bad things for me to hear, then I would prefer to hear them. This doesn't mean I'll give up on the strength of it, but I'm aware of the fact that I may need to be brought down to earth.

[dyermaker]

You ask: What chance do I have?

Gretsky Replies: You always miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

[Dejin]

She obviously share(s/d) something great with you, the best thing to do would be to give it time and let her fully realize what she has in front of her. I would not despair if I were you. You've made a lot of progress from where you started, that's for sure (her being just another co-worker).

 

PS - ever think about writing books?

[Trippitaka]

Thanks also for your replies, Dyermaker and Dejin.

 

Dejin, I hope you're right, and maybe her week away will give her this time to realise it.

 

Dyermaker, you're right about the nature of the friendship in that I have always been into her, but at the same time I am concerned somewhat about damaging a friendship with one of the most interesting people I've ever met. Not so concerned that I won't take any chance or risk necessary in order to try to change things, though - I guess that's where the difference lies, huh, with the two sorts of situations you mention? I am a little confused by you advising me to 'tell her straight up'. I figured I already did that. Do you think there is something else I should say?

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Trippitaka

at the same time I am concerned somewhat about damaging a friendship with one of the most interesting people I've ever met.

The friendship is already damaged if it's contingent upon the false hope of future romantic involvement. Do you see what I 'm saying though? Are you really going to be happy forever with the way things are?

[Trippitaka]

No I'm not, and to be honest I'm not sure that I'll be able to maintain this friendship if it does not work out for me - it'd tear me apart. It is weird though, feeling like I've never been happier than I have during the last six months - even without the relationship, and for a good part of it telling myself that it never was going to be a romantic relationship. I now fear that ending, but I know I'd only be kidding myself and stopping my life going on if I hadn't done what I did.

[sami]

For some strange reasons there are some girls who will lead and hint to you that it is OK if you will give it a try. The problem is, once you start to initiate anything positive from your side to move forward they start to back off. It is torture and tantalizatin tactics that some girls are good at. Just relax, give her some time to think it all over. If she likes you she will tell otherwise forget about it , go back to and be content with your" Just Friends" status.

[Trippitaka]

Thanks. If it is 'torture and tantalization' tactics on her part then I am convinced it is unwitting. I feel I know her too well to think that she would do something like that on purpose if she had no intention of doing it. This does make me feel positive, though, as it would then seem that that the way she has reacted to me all this time has been somehow instinctive and because she has never thought it through enough to identify with it, then maybe she just hasn't realised how she feels.

 

I'm not sure that I'll ever be happy with the "just friends" status now. That is the trouble, but yeah, this should come to a resolution and at least I'll be able to move on if it's not going to happen.

[sami]

The problem is that no one of them was planning anything. That is just their nature for some without any wicked or bad intention from their part. They would not commit themselves for a full force relationship but they would not keep a clear- cut line between " just friends" and B/G relationship. I'm not at all suggesting that your friend is playing games on you. She might be as confused as you are. Just give her time and space to decide. You might end up nowhere than " Just a Friend". If that is not enough for you then it may the right time for both of you to rethink it all over again. If it is fine with her you may have no chance to push it forward else you will risk loosing your privileged status as " just' a close friend . On the other hand I could not quite understand the meaning of " WE are A&B " thing whenever a guy asked her about her name in a tempting social setting ( bar, resturant..). It sounds like she is saving something for her man. Don't you think that is you?. Follow your instincts my friend.

[Trippitaka]

Yeah, that was my point. At a time when I was looking for signs and signals and a guy would approach her separately, (although we would be there together) and ask her name, she would respond with both our names. This said to me that she was telling the guy in question that she wasn't by herself by instantly bringing me into the conversation. I took this as a positive sign. To me it was patently obvious that everyone around us must have thought that we were "together" and she never once did anything to dispel that assumption. In fact she seemed to encourage it. Now, if she wasn't thinking that, then it brings me back to my conclusion that maybe she wanted us to be together, but only on a subconscious level that she hadn't identified with or put into words. This is still my belief. I guess I just have to work out whether this is just blind optimism and I am just trying to make myself believe this because I am not about to give up easily or I'm not ready to let go or whether this is actually the case.

 

As for my instincts - they always led me to believe that this would happen and it would work out. Of course, having had the discussion with her now, I am forced to doubt my instincts a little. The trouble is, I must remain in this state of doubt and limbo for another six days yet, until she returns.

[SweetLou22]

Originally posted by dyermaker

You ask: What chance do I have?

Gretsky Replies: You always miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

 

 

Yeah, however it's just like that demotivational poster I once read:

 

FUTILITY: You'll always miss 100% of the shots you don't take, and, statistically speaking, 99% of the shots you do.

[Trippitaka]

Those stats certainly increase my optimism! lol. As it goes I think I've already taken the shot, so I won't fall into the first category, that's for sure.

[SoleMate]

To me it was patently obvious that everyone around us must have thought that we were "together" and she never once did anything to dispel that assumption. In fact she seemed to encourage it.

I have several comments for you...

 

1) Yes, the "two names" behavior is indicative of her informing others that she is with you, and she wants only, or primarily, your company. Not necessarily as an item, though...she might do the same thing if she were there with her brother.

 

2) You observe her behavior closely and interpret it in great detail. This can easily get you off on the right track. There are lots of reasons a young woman may show up well groomed on any given day. To assume that it is directed at you is likely to lead you into error.

 

3)

She did tell me ... I mean an awful lot to her ... we have loads in common ... I make her laugh...her ex was very threatened by me because she talked about me all the time ...I was so valuable to her as a friend and that she didn't want to hurt me or lose my friendship.

To me, this sounds like "brother/sister" affection. She can enjoy the masculine attention without worrying that there will be an "are you into me, let's get it on" price tag. I think this illustrates the dangers of starting a friendship under false pretenses. Dyer was right on when he pointed out that you really are interested in a romantic relationship with her, not a friendship. That's not a bad thing, but you did mislead her and maybe even yourself by acting as though brotherly closeness was all you wanted. It's great that you didn't push her for sex, etc. - I guess - but the fact that your motives are more romantic than just purely carnal does not mean that your friendship motivation was ever a platonic one.

 

All those evenings at the movies or sharing a drink, she had the chance to think "What if Trippitaka and I were here as bf/gf, instead of as platonic friends?" If she were interested at all, I'm sure those thoughts would be there and she'd have a chance to say "Might be cool" or "Never!"

 

I don't think she'll ever come out and say "There's no possibility", even if her heart thinks that way. Why? She won't want to lose her attentive friend.

[Trippitaka]

I think that you're right on every count, SoleMate. What I mean by that is your possibilities seems as real as any and more real than most. What you have said is basically a breakdown of the pessimistic side of me. I had not considered quite so many of the brother/sister scenarios perhaps, but I guess they all make sense.

All those evenings at the movies or sharing a drink, she had the chance to think "What if Trippitaka and I were here as bf/gf, instead of as platonic friends?" If she were interested at all, I'm sure those thoughts would be there and she'd have a chance to say "Might be cool" or "Never!"

That's an interesting one. Again it makes sense that she must have thought these things. Coupled with the fact that she surely must have wondered if I was thinking it. When it came down to it she told me that she had no idea I felt that way. I can't really work out if that was the truth or not. Not only that, but apparantly her room mates had told her that they could tell I wanted more from her (when they saw us together), but that she didn't believe them.

I don't think she'll ever come out and say "There's no possibility", even if her heart thinks that way. Why? She won't want to lose her attentive friend.

Are you sure about this? This worries me. Like I say, I feel too strongly about her to let any possibility slip away so my plan was to find out straight away when she returns whether or not this is the case. She did keep emphasising, when I told her that I would give her as much time as she needs, that she doesn't want to have me hanging on a string and things like 'what if I missed an opportunity with someone else because I was hanging on that string.' She did genuinely seem to not want to have me under any false pretenses. So if you are saying that this is likely to not be the truth then I am left with a problem... and so is she. Before you said that I fully expected to get this side of it resolved on the day she returns.

 

Your whole reply is one of negativity with regard to the chance of me making this happen. I am glad that you say these things - like I say, I need to know the bad things. I'm curious, though, do you think that this is almost definitely the case, or are you merely highlighting possibilities that no one else brought up, me included? (Once again, don't feel the need to be kind.)

[SoleMate]

Well, I don't know the lady, and you do.

 

Try putting yourself in her shoes - what if you had a young lady who paid such kind personal attentions to you over a lengthy period? You spend much time together, and come to rely heavily on her as a friend and companion and confidant, but know deep down that she could never be "the one" for you. And then she says something indicating that if she cannot hope for romance with you, her friendship with you will likely be over.

 

Will you say, "Sayonara, then!" Or would you say, "I don't know, I'm confused, I don't want to tie you up or keep you off the market."

 

??

 

Many people, even ethical ones, will say something that sounds like option 2. There will be enough loopholes and ambiguities to relieve the guilt of having appeared to give hope to the lovelorn one, while secretly knowing it was highly unlikely.

 

I'm no fortune teller, and people are complex. I just wouldn't bet my heart on this girl coming back to you. Tactically, let her taste your absence, and if anything is likely to clarify her feelings, that is it.

[Trippitaka]

Yep, I think you may have it in a nutshell there.

 

As it goes, I'm much more relaxed now anyway. I think I've come to terms with the fact that I can't do anything about it this week. When I see her I'm going to be as positive about it as I know how whilst also making sure my own terms are known so as not to get myself into anything misleading. It's all I can do, I think. I'll have one more shot at this, (and I get the impression I'll be able to figure out what she's thinking if she's not levelling with me). I'll make sure that everything I need to say is said and if this doesn't yield positive results then at least I'll be able to walk away knowing that I did all I could.

[Curt]

I've been there, man!

 

I see a great deal of what I thought and felt - for the lady I cared/care? about - in what you are feeling for your lady friend.

 

Said it before and I'll say it again...

 

Nothing is more destructive to one's heart, than love which is unreciprocated by someone you yearn for.

 

My two cents...

 

The only solution may be to hug her, and say goodbye. Tell her you'll always care deeply for her, but that to merely be her friend right now would tear your heart to shreds.

 

It will sound heartless to some, but it may be the only way to save yourself.

 

You're a nice guy, and you'll find a girl that truly wants you to not only be her best friend, but her lover as well.

 

Peace.

 

Curt

[Trippitaka]

What you say makes sense, Curt. I'm not sure, though, that I'll be able to just turn my back on a friendship that has meant so much to me and done so much for me. Only time will tell, but my first reaction will never be to walk away, even though I understand the need for me to do this may materialise at some stage.

 

Right now, I'm still focussing on the positive anyway. However unlikely it seems, I still think I'm right about all this. I'm almost tempted to use words like destiny and fate. In my mind, it's just a question of whether she can be convinced to see things the way I do. I have reached a point, however, where I'll be able to accept the fact that she may not. If I reach such a juncture then I'll deal with it and move on. There's no sense right now in losing my focus and pre-empting this, though.

[happilyconfused]

In my experience (and I've been in the friendzone plenty of times), the closer of a friend you are, the more unlikely you are to hook up with her.

 

I know it's tough, because your attraction probably strengthened as you got to know her better. She feels familiar and close, and it makes no sense in your mind why you shouldn't hook up.

 

I've been there, and I can tell you that taking that angle just doesn't work most of the time. You shouldn't give up hope if it's that important to you, and you should definitely do something about it, but be prepared.

 

Also, if you want to succeed, now and in the future, you might want to reconsider your attitude on the subject:

 

When you say things like "it's just a question of whether she can be convinced to see things the way I do" you're missing a fundamental point of attraction...you shouldn't HAVE to convince her if she's into you, and if she's not, you won't be able to argue her into it. If you pressure her or lay too much on her all at once, that's bound to turn her away, especially if she was recently in a relationship that hurt her feelings. And putting yourself on a string for her to reel in or cut at her leisure doesn't help you either, because it changes her perception of you...you lose a lot of power that way. Again, I know, I've been there.

 

You can't change her or her feelings. What you can do is change your attitude (and maybe even improve yourself a little bit) in such a way that SHE changes her feelings. Might be a more productive undertaking.

 

Nutshell: you can't use emotional tactics like pressure and subterfuge (and I'm not accusing you of it, just making a general statement) and argument to make someone want you, nor can you "work your way into it" through the "close friends" route, if there isn't mutual attraction. The attraction has to be present, in at LEAST a minor, undeveloped form, for something to come of it.

 

If you genuinely care for her as a person, then you have to respect her wishes as well as your own. Be patient, and if it doesn't work out like you want it to, learn from your mistakes, take a deep breath, and keep truckin'. It may turn out, as I've experienced, that she isn't as much "your type" as you think she is right now.

 

You'll be fine. Good luck.

[Trippitaka]

Thanks for your words Happilyconfused. It all seems to make a lot of sense (people here seem to have a habit of that, lol.)

 

Let me just try to clarify a couple of things though:

 

I think I might have given slightly the wrong impression when I said "it's just a question of whether she can be convinced to see things the way I do." What I should have said was that I was convinced that to some degree she already is attracted to me and the rest of it, but maybe because she hasn't consciously thought about me in that way before and especially when I've suddenly unloaded all of this on her, then she's having some trouble processing the information, sorting through her own emotions, etc. It's hard to explain why I think this, and in actual fact I'm not that convinced about it as the previous sentence made it sound, but it's more to do with gut feeling than anything rational.

 

I agree with you about the whole 'being on a string' thing as well. However, I think I was a little ambiguous about it both when I spoke to her and when I wrote it in my post here. When we next speak I'll need to clarify that with her if I don't fall at the first hurdle, (the first hurdle being to find out whether she is attracted to me, which may be a difficult one to find out.) I think I didn't make it too clear to her that my being happy to be 'on a string' was only for such a time as she needs to spend considering whether she wants that from me or whether she is ready for a relationship at all. This isn't supposed to be an unending amount of time when we go about our normal lives, she can date other people, etc, and leave me with the vague hope that maybe one day if none of the other guys work out for her then she will choose me. It has to be as if we're dating, but without the necessary initial inclusion of any of the physical aspects (and I suppose she needs to feel no particular need to commit herself to anything initially.) This is what I need to let her know. Like I say, this assumes I get past hurdle 1 and also assumes that her week away hasn't given her enough time to think it all through anyway.

[fnouri]

I feel for you, simply because I know what you are feeling. I have been there. I've been the boyfriend that she broke up with. Think about this, what role did you play in her breaking up with her boyfriend? Did he cheat her because of you?

 

I know her type. She doesn’t know because she wants to have her options open. She can't trust you as a lover. Romance is not there. Stop thinking about why she dressed this way or that way, or why she keeps asking you to have lunch with her, etc. She is enjoying the attention, do you see that?

 

Girls don't think like guys. For them it is a game. They don't care how secure they would be in future, how reliable you are, or what a deep friendship the two of you have. At least not in the beginning. They want that thunderbolt that you talked about. They make their decision based on the spark, regardless of how wise that decision may be.

 

You opened your heart to her, and she did not appreciate it. Time to move on. Go on a few dates and be unavailable to her. See what happens. Don't be hostile or cold, just normal. If she wants you, she will let you know. If not, it was not meant to be. And if it did not happen, think twice about friendship. You have already crossed that line!

 

You have to have the gift of goodbye. Not because you are hateful, but because you are faithful.

[Trippitaka]

That's an interesting one, and something that I had not considered - the notion that I may have been a contributory factor in her last relationship ending.

 

It's funny, but a long while ago I saw it as a possible outcome that I may at some stage become a factor in that relationship breaking down. However, the only way I looked at it was that maybe she might suddenly choose me instead or maybe the fact that she got on so well with me would make her realise that her boyfriend was not so great, etc, etc. Not that I ever had any reason to suspect that their relationship wasn't anything but perfect - I never even met the guy.

 

Never at any stage, though, even after it ended, did I think of the possibility that because she spoke so highly of me meant that he would/did become suspicious of her which in turn led to his infidelity. Actually, I still think this is fairly unlikely, but it now makes me feel a little guilty. I guess if this is the case then she may have identified with it and it might have lowered her opinion of me. Still, she only got more friendly with me after the event so I guess that's not a factor.

 

Interesting, too, when you say:-

"Girls don't think like guys. For them it is a game. They don't care how secure they would be in the future, how reliable you are, or what a deep friendship the two of you have. At least not in the beginning. They want the thunderbolt that you talked about. They make their decision based on the spark, regardless of how wise that decision may be."

Are you sure? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I always thought that was more of a guy way of looking at it. Thinking of the stereotype that a girl can change her mind about a guy, but if a guy isn't attracted to a girl instantly then he never will be. So you are saying that guys think more about future security, compatibility, etc, and girls are just looking for that instant excitement? You see, before any of this happened, (well, particularly since her last relationship ended), I would consider what I thought my future chances were. I knew that she hadn't been initially interested in me, but I thought to myself 'Well, at least she's a girl and what she thought about me originally isn't as important as if it were the other way around.' If you're right then maybe this idea was always doomed to failure, if only because of the fact that she was seeing someone else when she met me. [i must make a mental note to bring that up on Sunday.]

 

Also, I'm a little confused by...

"She can't trust you as a lover"

I'm not disagreeing, I just don't understand why you say that.

 

Cheers for your input.