I Want My Friend to be More Than a Friend. What Chance Do I Have?

[Trippitaka]

On a more general note, I have to say, I'm really thankful for all you guys' input. When she went away on Friday my head was in such a mess. There were all sorts of things that I wanted to say, that I wanted to add. I wished that I could have had that opportunity over the weekend. I spoke to a couple of close friends about this at the time, of course, but the very nature of friends means that they just focus on the positive and tell me what they think I want or need to hear. Coupled with that were my own inner thoughts of doom and gloom about it all which didn't really help either. I had two extremes of circumstance and possibility to deal with and yet no real balance. The thought of merely dealing with her seven days of abscence before I could talk to her about it again was almost too much to cope with. Discovering this forum and being able to have a reasoned, unbiased discussion about it has been of enormous help. I'm now much more relaxed, I'm prepared and ready for the worst as well as the best, my head's much clearer and I feel when I do get to speak to her again I'll be able to make a lot more sense and be much more rational about it. So, thanks.

 

There's something I've been pondering today, though and I wondered if anyone has an opinion:-

 

I can see why the mental turmoil is created when a romantic relationship breaks down. Two people have been much closer and more intimate than just friends would be. They may have come to rely on each other's prescence and support. They may have had plans for the future that now lie in tatters. The list, no doubt, goes on. When the relationship in question ends it might take either party months or even years to mentally recover from what has happened.

 

Then there's friendships. Too people can have known each other for their whole lives, have liked each other and enjoyed each other's company very much and can have shared all kinds of experiences, events, even epiphanies in their lives. They could be two people of the same sex or opposing sexes, but let's assume that there's no romantic interest there from either party. Now, suppose one of the friends moves away, (for example.) The two friends in question can go their separate ways, knowing that they may not see each other again for maybe even years and knowing that when they do they will not have the same relationship any longer as they won't be able to see each other all the time. Sure it can be quite emotional, but essentially it's fine. They start out on their separate lives, miss each other for a while or every now and again, but there's no lasting emotional difficulty.

 

All fine so far, I hear you say. The nature of a friendship is much less involving and so will no doubt have far less of an impact on someone's life. The anomaly, however, lies with how I feel about this girl. I feel extrordinarily emotionally attached. If I am rejected it will feel to me more like a break up than a rejection. Yet, I have never actually had a romantic relationship with her so even if it ends with me not being able to see her any more, I would consider that should be more like when someone I've worked with for six months and have become reasonably good friends with leaves the comany. I might be sorry to see the person go. I'd probably exchange email addresses and say "let's stay in touch", (but never do) and that would be that. I'd go on with my life.

 

I'm not saying I won't move on if and when this turns out to be over, all I mean is that in my mind it shouldn't be possible to get this emotionally attached to someone who I've never had anything more, essentially, than a friendship with, even though I have wanted more. For instance, if I had a friend that I wanted to spend more time with because I enjoyed their company and they didn't see it that way, I would never be spending all day wondering what I could have done differently, what I should do next and how I can make it work out.

 

I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes sense. It's just that to me the position I find myself in doesn't make sense. So it occurs to me, could this have something to do with social conditioning and acceptability? What I mean is, it is OK in the eyes of the world for a guy to yearn for a particular girl or vice versa and have that take up all of his time and energy because it is seen as being linked to the romantic relationship issue as oppose to being linked to the platonic relationship side of things. If I were to enjoy a guy's company a lot, then it would first of all seem odd in a sense to even want to actively cultivate the friendship and it would seem even more odd to spend a lot of time working out how best to achieve that. By the same token, could this explain why the emotional aspects of two friends moving apart are never too severe?

 

If I am right, then dealing with the end of any relationship could surely by accomplished by altering your perception a little of what is and isn't acceptable. I suppose arguably this could lead to pent up emotion that hasn't been dealt with, but if this is the case then wouldn't that exist for all the friendships that drift apart or are not cultivated?

 

Sorry, I'm rambling. It'd be interesting to know if anyone has an opinion, though as I'm a little confused as to why my feelings are so strong for this person. Furthermore, I suppose, is it unusual or unlikely that I should have gotten this caught up in this situation?

[caretoo]

T,

I enjoyed your last post enormously. Very interesting.

 

I think it is different because you are "infatuated" with her. That is a powerful emotion. "Just friends" usually don't experience this.

 

My situation is similar to yours yet different in that I was the one with the s/o not him. But our thoughts are in the same place. (I have quite a few posts under caretoomuch's original post in Second Chances if you care to read them.) But maybe you should wait until next week. Your situation seems promising.

 

The posters response to you about "already crossing the line" really hit home for me as I have been fooling myself into thinking I could "go back" to friendship after so much was confessed. It gave me a good dose of reality and alot to think about.

 

Good luck next week. Think positive!

[Trippitaka]

I do remain positive. The only change now is that it is in a controlled, logical way. Much the better state of affairs, I think!

 

Haven't had chance to read through the thread you were talking about yet, but I shall seek it out.

 

Describing this as infatuation is fine. It's the word I use for it and have never imagined it to be anything different, (even though I hate the word infatuation because it has a very negative, almost creepy, connotation associated with it, despite the fact that it can cause very strong, very real emotion, sometimes as powerful as love can.)

 

However, what it is described as doesn't alter my confusion as to why someone can find themselves in a situation where they are held hostage emotionally by a person that they haven't even shared a romantic relationship with, if you see what I mean.

 

By the way, I've been sat here for a few minutes trying to figure out what 's/o' means. No doubt it isn't important, but I'm curious now. What does it mean?

[caretoo]

"s/o" means "Significant other" (girlfriend, boyfriend, lover, partner, etc.).

[Trippitaka]

Ahh, ok. Makes sense now.

[Diva]

Whatever happened with this? I am dying to know.

[Trippitaka]

OK, I'll give you an update. You may be disappointed to learn, however, that the update doesn't offer a much clearer resolution than I had before:-

 

She came back from her week away, (I think this was a couple of days after I last posted.) On the day she came back I sent her a couple of SMS messages saying that I wanted to see her, (primarily to get this all clarified as I had said that I wanted to do.) I didn't get any reply, so I left it until the next day, (this will have been Monday 15th March, I think.)

 

When she came into the office she was as happy, friendly and condusive as ever, (perhaps more so). She made no mention of the events that occurred before her holiday so initially I didn't mention it either. She asked me to lunch that day and I had such a good time and the conversation was so good (perhaps because I'd missed her,) that I didn't bring it up then either. It was getting a little surreal by this point, so I sent her an email quite late on in the afternoon. Basically, I said that I'll need to talk about what happened last week - it's not going to go away - and that I imagined that we'd both had a chance to think more clearly and would have a better idea of what we needed to say to each other. I said that I didn't want to put her in an uncomfortable position again, so if she preferred then I would leave the when and the where up to her. I also said that it didn't need to be right away if she didn't want, but it would have to be pretty soon.

 

I didn't get a reply to this email. I didn't know quite what to make of that, but as I had said that I was leaving it up to her, I decided that I now probably shouldn't bring it up again myself - certainly not for a while.

 

That week at work was pretty uneventful. We went out to lunch most days and had a generally good time. The closeness seemed there as much as ever. When walking her home on the Friday night we spoke about what each other was doing during the coming weekend and I suggested that we go out. She seemed to think that was a good idea and that she'd let me know when she was free. When I hadn't heard from her by Sunday morning I called her to ask if she would like to go out that day, but she told me that after a heavy Saturday night she was too tired and hung-over to get off the couch, (hmm, not a good sign, methinks.)

 

Monday 22nd March: This is where all the fun started. After I got home from work that night, (about 6:45pm as it goes,) I get an SMS from her. She asked if I'd like to go to her house for dinner and then go to see a movie. "Top banana!" thought I. I sent her a message back to say that I was up for it, but asked when the film started and questionned whether at this late juncture there was time to have the meal and see the film. (I don't have a car at the moment, you see, so it'd take me the best part of an hour on the buses just to get to her house.) Anyway, I went to make myself look beautiful :-) and awaited her response.

 

It's 7:15pm now and I had gotten no reply, so I called her. I couldn't get through to her phone. I tried a couple more times with no joy, (I only have her cellphone number), so I checked out the cinema listings. I figured that the film she wanted to see at the theatre she had suggested left only one possible showing (which was at about 8:50pm I think. At about 7:30 I took the decision to set off as she was probably having difficulties with telephone reception and I'd get the details sorted out on the way. All the way into town I had no more luck getting through to her. It also got to the point where I needed to get straight to the cinema just to make it in time. So I sent her another message saying that I was heading straight for the cinema and to meet me there if she's picking up any of my messages.

 

Still no sign of her at the cinema, so at about 9:00 I just went in and watched the movie. When I came out of the theatre, I turned my phone back on and was met by a succession of SMS messages. She'd been trying to get hold of me from shortly after the film started, I think. Once I'd sorted through them and put them all into chronological order, it turned out that she had meant that she wanted to do this on Wednesday night, not that night and that she had turned her phone off and gone to the gym right after she sent me the original message. There were many, many apologies, etc, amongst all the messages.

 

By this point, of course, I wasn't happy. More than anything, I was angry with myself for dropping everything and running off into town for something that hadn't even been properly confirmed. In that previous week, I had been trying to be a little aloof and more unavailable than usual, just to try to reassert my position and hopefully change her perception of me a bit in terms of my not necessarily always being at her beck and call. This had all proved positive, but this little incident I felt had done me no favours at all.

 

So I ignored her messages, (which were still coming in), I avoided her the next morning at work and also ignored her emails - all of which were apologies and asking me to speak to her. I was being a bit childish I suppose, especially as I was only upset with myself, not her. Late in the morning I mailed her to say that it was all fine, I wasn't upset and I knew it was just a misunderstanding.

 

All seemed fine again after that. She asked me a couple of times to go out on the Wednesday night, (the day she had originally meant to ask), but I said no. Just making my point, I guess. We still did lunch most days that week, though, and we went out for a movie / drinking on the Sunday.

 

That brings us up to this week now, and all has been well. I feel the need to have brief spells of being a bit aloof these days and that normally brings things back on track if I've felt ignored or something. The only bizarre thing this week was getting an SMS message from her which was clearly meant for someone else which said something about not being worried and not wanting to put whoever it is in a position as she's not one to break up a happy home. I didn't like how that sounded, but she was very quick to message me to ask me to please ignore it and that it was meant for a friend of hers with whom she has a running joke where she pretends to fancy her Dad. (Make of all that what you will.)

 

And that brings us up-to-date. Apologies for my usual long winded way of explaining everything in explicit detail. You catch me now just as I am plotting to get her to go out with me either tonight or tomorrow, (I'm still yet to get a Friday or Saturday out of her.)

 

So I still have no idea what to make of it all. I didn't get the resolution I was hoping for, which I guess backs up what a couple of people have said on this thread. At the moment, though, I am just reasonably happy to take it as it comes and see what develops - I'm not analysing the whole thing as much as I used to.

 

Here's one of my thoughts, which perhaps represents an angle which hadn't previously been explored much on this thread: When I asked her to acknowledge the possibility that we could end up in a relationship after she had taken as much time as she wanted to make that decision, etc, etc, I had originally thought that it was perfectly reasonable to expect either a yes or a no. Recently I got to thinking; if she's thinking that yes it's a possibility, then she may think that acknowledging the fact to me may be construed as admission that it definitely will happen. Therefore her only course of action would be to say that she doesn't know (as she has done), or say no more (which she hasn't) and then be happy to continue to see me, (which she seems to be). This is the positive theory, anyway, and it's the one I'm currently running with. In that sense it seems like we are kind of 'dating', but without the physical bonuses that go with it. Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea? To the best of my knowledge I don't think she has seen the other guy again that I spoke about, although I realise she may want to conceal that from me and even if she hasn't seen him there could be plenty of other reasons (not connected to me,) for this.

 

I'd love to know what's going on in her head, but I guess I'm also resigned to the fact that right now I don't actually need to know. As I say, I'm treating it as if she has said 'yes, I may be interested and let's explore that possibility.' I'm also mindful, however, of the fact that during the big conversation I told her that if she wanted to do this then I wouldn't overstep the mark or make any moves on her until she made the decision that that was what she wanted to do and she was ready. This is troubling me at the moment as I'm not sure whether sitting back and hoping that she jumps me at some stage is the correct way to play this. At the same time, me making the move could be seen as me going back on what I said. I do know, though, that if anything is going to progress I need to start crossing certain boundaries and testing certain waters. If anyone has any idea exactly what boundaries and which waters these should be, I'd be grateful of any input.

[Curt]

I hear all you've said my man, but,

 

I get the feeling she's still rather half-hearted, and non-commital.

 

Don't waste too much more time on this situation if I were you.

 

Sorry to be so negative, tis just my feeling...

 

Curt

[Trippitaka]

Yeah, I don't know why I'm bothering. I said that line to a friend of mine about twelve times last night. I was out on the town last night, and so was she. We were in different groups, but we had arranged that she would call me when she had got into town and sorted out where she was going to be so that we could meet up. She never called.

 

The weird thing is, my logical brain really has no idea why I'm bothering. Ok, there are several reasons for liking her, ie she's very attractive and I can list a load of things we have in common, but I really don't know why this is any different from many other girls I could name and these other girls normally do what they say they are going to and don't make my life complicated. I was out with two or three examples last night for instance. We had a great laugh.

 

It doesn't make any difference though. I'm still hooked.

[Curt]

Man I tell ya...

 

I've been there as of last summer. Girl by the name of Karen. She had my heart hook, line and sinker. I have a feeling she enjoyed the feeling of my presence in her life too, even in an abbreviated form.

 

Truth be known, I still haven't been completely able to accept that it never was for us, and that it never will. Yet my hard of hearts feels differently.

 

Fact is she's not coming back.

 

Tell that to my soul though...she haunts me still. For many reasons, the personality and beauty of that gal haunts my mind ... and probably always will.

 

Move on quickly my friend. Don't invest too much...I did...and my spirit took the hit when she left for University in the Fall.

 

Peace.

 

Curt

[Trippitaka]

Around the time I wrote that last message I made another 'aloofness' resolution. Then the next day she asked me out, so that went out the window. I asked her about what she got up to on Friday (acting non concerned about not being called) and she didn't at any point feel the need to explain why she hadn't contacted me. I guess it's a possibility we were just at cross purposes.

 

Funny thing was, that night we seemed closer than ever. Watching for body language, (like I do,) everything seemed so positive. She was animated. Her pupils were more dilated than I'd ever seen them (in a brightly lit room and it was just the two of us.) She constantly leaned towards me. She came into the 'personal zone' on several occasions. I guess half the problem is me constantly interpreting these things, and probably wrongly so.

 

The next day at work I invited her to join me (and friends) at a weekend event in July (I won't go into detail). The thing is, I know that she really wants to go to this thing, but she said no, backed up by three or four dubious (to say the least) excuses. It would be a whole weekend so maybe she felt some pressure, but I said she should invite her friends as well and I know it's the sort of event that she would cross mountains to get to go to, (let alone overcome the very minor problems she may have had with that weekend.)

 

Following that, I decided to try to end this.

 

Not that there's anything to end, save for what's in my head.

 

I'm 33 hours in and it's like coming off nictoine. I am at my most irritable. Anyone who's around me right now annoys me. Not for any good reason though, so I'm just trying to not talk to people. I'm not sure how long this particular resolution will last... She's been seeking me out periodically, you see, and being friendly as ever, so it's not easy.

 

... Of course, this all still spins round in my head and this is what I've been mulling over today:- If I credit the following three facts of being true of her:-

 

1) She likes me (in whatever sense)

2) She is capable of making good moral decisions

3) She has a modicum of intelligence

 

... and I have no reason to doubt any one of them, then how could she possibly allow me to continue my pursuit if the answer in her head is a definite 'no'? #1 would mean that she would want to do what is best for me. #2 would mean that she wouldn't want to put anyone through this. #3 would mean that she does actually understand what I'm doing here, which surely she hasn't forgotten (...?) Of course, the obvious opposing factors are:-

 

1) She doesn't want to lose my friendship

2) She doesn't have the courage to face me with it

3) She is enjoying the attention

 

Thing is, I am so sure that she's not the sort of person that would let the second set of points override the first set.

 

So this leaves me with the theory I mentioned before about the chance that she's interested yet not ready, but doesn't want to let me know due to the extra pressure that would put on us both, etc, etc, etc. This doesn't make sense, though, because if this were the case she wouldn't avoid opportunities to spend time with me so often or surely she would feel the risk of me losing interest.

 

Clearly, nothing makes sense to me.

 

I still have one slightly shaky idea, and that is that it's all a 'hard to get' tactic that she's playing - constantly reeling me in and letting me out. If this was the case, though, it would be a very odd way of playing it, and very high risk as I think most sane men would have quit by now. As I say, even I am toying with the idea of getting out.

 

I can see that maybe I'm going to have to bring this up with her and demand some sort of answer, especially if I start thinking about this all too much again (like I seem to be doing right now.)

[Curt]

Well,

 

Now you're sounding like I was so much, it's scary. But...result is the same. Irrespective of the why's she is or isn't doing this, remember you are both humans with feelings ... do you think she is even aware of or cares particularly what it is all doing to you, as a man who cares deeply for her.

 

It's not a healthy situation. She is iffy at best, and she likely knows just how you feel to the point where she should realize that she is, albeit perhaps partially unwittingly, stringing you along.

 

Make yourself unavailable. Karen gave me signs that she enjoyed being around me too. In the end, they meant nothing. I was perhaps making far too much of something that was no more to her than a good friendship.

 

I wanted to give her my heart, but could she would not have it. She enjoyed the times we shared but WE were not a couple, and would never be.

 

I won't say it hurts only for a little while. It'll take a while to get over her presence and attention, etc. OOOh...and Tripp, you say it's like getting clean from nicotine? I can't agree there...I would say crack cocaine might be a better analogy for the emotion it all stirs up.

 

Anyways,

 

Keep strong. I'm in your corner too man, for what it's worth. Cut emotional ties to - and with - her as much as is humanly possible.

 

If she cares to the extent that you do - and even if she doesn't currently realze so - a few weeks or so without your attention, etc., and she may feel the need to make things more ... real/solid ? If she does not feel the same way ... the question of whether you both had something great will have been unmistakably answered.

 

Best of luck with your "habit."

 

Curt

[Trippitaka]

a few weeks or so without your attention, etc., and she may feel the need to make things more ... real/solid ?

That was always something I planned on trying. Then I started thinking of the option that maybe she thinks we're dating, only she hasn't told me, and that then she would be thinking that I was making good on my offer to give her all the time in the world to get her head straight and make a decision about me. If that were the case, if I didn't give her any attention, etc, I might fail the "test" because I hadn't spent that time proving to her what a great guy I am.

 

.... but the chances of that option being true have dwindled in my estimation.'Tis but a vain hope now.

[A Friend]

I was very interested in reading about your issues as they seem to mirror mine quite clearly...although I am a girl who was in love with my male friend for 8 years. I broke off the friendship 3 years ago after much of the agonising you are going through now.

 

I can't say it was the best thing that I have ever done, and advise you to do it...I wish I could. I made the decision to stop seeing him because it was killing me, and I was beginning to hate feeling the way I did, jealous, angry and upset. It was all consuming and the only way I thought to stop feeling like that was to end it...I also wanted to punish him in a way, and take a bit of the control back, there was also an element of 'he will miss me so much he is sure to come back'. He didn't. He said he wanted to give me the space I so obviously needed, and was completely honest about how we would never be together, there was no spark etc.

 

It doesn't stop me wanting the friendship back, although I know in my heart I will always want more, and that it would be a mistake to try to go back. It is such a terribly hard thing to admit to yourself, and I spent years putting my head in the sand to avoid facing it, but there is no other way. I am still trying to 'move on' with my life and haven't had a boyfriend in 6 years! So it is not easy...I guess I just want you to not have to go through what I've had to...so much of what you say is what I tried to tell myself 3 years ago. Analysing everything and hearing only what you want to hear and ignoring all the stuff you don't. In the end you only succeed in punishing yourself.

 

I will tell you what many people told me and I refused to listen...you deserve better, you are a beautiful, lovable person, and this is YOUR life, don't waste any more time disrespecting yourself.

[Trippitaka]

Yeah, such a state of affairs does worry me.

 

The only problem lies with my not having actually had a rejection. If I could be given that then I know my path would be clear to leave it alone and I could start to pick myself up. Kinda like closure.

 

Right now, I'll just have to see what happens with my head. That's seems one of the most unpredicatable elements right now. At the moment I am leaving it alone, but I know she probably has the power to swing that around in a second.

[A Friend]

I think that if you really thought an actual rejection would help you would have just flat out told her how you feel and faced the consequences. I think you know how she feels.

 

She doesn't want to lose you as a friend, and that's why she's being non-commital.

[Trippitaka]

But I have flat out told her how I feel. I do think that the rejection would help, if that's how it's going to be, but that doesn't mean I want to encourage the rejection.

 

The only reason I haven't forced the issue since then is that I entertain the possibility that doing so could damage my chances.

[A Friend]

Do you REALLY think that anything you do or say now, is going to encourage or discourage rejection?

 

She knows how you feel...so why do you think she hasn't responded to it?

[Trippitaka]

You ask that second question is if it's something I haven't considered before. This is the question I've been wrestling with over the last few weeks. I don't know the answer, but my theories are in my last few posts.

 

It may well be that the answer you are driving at is the most likely correct one - as I've said, right now I am treating it as such, but this doesn't make me sure. Too many things are too odd for me to be sure, (also mentioned in previous posts.)

 

Yes, I do think, (and again it's possibilities I'm working with,) that my actions could still affect the outcome. It really depends on what she's thinking and this brings me back to the issue of not being sure.

 

I know that it's not logical to spend time on this now. It's not logical for me to think that maybe I have a chance, but my feelings are strong and this clouds my judgement in that I am willing to entertain much smaller chances than I ordinarily would be. If it were me advising someone in a similar position I know that I would be saying "Just leave well alone for your own sake, because it's obviously never going to happen." It's good that people tell me how it is, as you are doing, but this really serves primarily to cushion the blow when I know it is definitely all over. This is why I may need the flat out rejection to help me see sense. Without it, I will move on, and I am attempting to initiate this now, but it will be a much more gradual process, with me continually looking over my shoulder wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

[A Friend]

I'm sorry, I don't mean to push you or tell you how it is. I really don't know what IS the right or wrong thing to be doing. I just see so much of what you are going through is what I went through and I want to help you avoid as much as possible the pain I went through. It is easy for me to look back and see the pattern, and see where I could have maybe changed things for myself, but I don't know how willing I would have been at the time to do that, even in the face of all logical advice.

 

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that you will do what you need to do, when you need to do it. And you're not there yet...which is completely fine. I truly believe that whatever happens is for a reason, and that however love manifests itself is a gift. I don't regret how I loved my friend, I regret that we can't have that friendship anymore, but also know that to have it would be destroying to either one or both of us, and that it isn't anyone's fault, but just how it is. I couldn't change how I felt anymore than he could change how he felt.

 

I want to thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts with you...it is still an emotional and 'working through it all' time, and this is all part of coming to terms with it. I wish you all the best for yours, whatever happens. Good luck!

[Trippitaka]

No need to apologise. I appreciate your comments. I hope I didn't seem like I didn't. It's just difficult, as you know.

 

She's invited me to her house on Friday night and I accepted. So much for my giving it up, eh? Well, maybe Friday will be the telling day. I doubt it somehow, though.

[aquataine]

Hi there, I was just reading your posts. I realise that I'm nearly a month late on this, but I was wondering, what has happened in your situation? The events that you have been describing are remarkably similar to my own experience in the past. Like you, I had a friend whom I felt very strongly toward. We got along really well, but all the time that we were friends, my head was spinning around yearning for so much more. We got to the point where we were spending most of our time with each other, and I was pretty convinced that she felt the same way as me. Eventually I decided to force the issue and tell her outright how I felt... needless to say the outcome was not what I was looking for, but neither did it allow me to close off the issue in my own mind.

In anycase, that was several years ago now. I don't see her anymore and haven't done so for a long time... hoping things have turned out better for you!

[Curt]

I'm glad aquataine asked Tripp.

 

Any updates on this situation? Neglect no details.

 

Curt

[Trippitaka]

The question you will all, no doubt, be asking yourself is "why has this man still not given up this pointless pursuit?" Unfortunately, I still don't have a plausible answer to that question.

 

Last time I posted I think it was around the time when she had rejected me for the 'weekend event' that I spoke of, I had toyed with and attempted to walk away, and then I think the very last bit was us having gone to the cinema together and me thinking that maybe it was still positive. I think this must've been around the 4th April.

 

OK, an update, (attempting to neglect no details):

 

At this point I had definitely decided that I wasn't just going to walk away and forget about it like I had said I was going to try to do. Because I like her so much I figured that if I did this I'd always be wondering what may have happened if I'd seen it through until such a point where a more definite resolution was reached.

 

I felt left with two options. I could either have the 'talk' again and try to bring about a conclusion straight away, or I could continue doing all I could to spend time with her and see what transpired. I wasn't ready for the 'talk' so I opted for the second option. I also decided that the aloofness card I had been playing wasn't going to do me any favours at all. It may serve to make her realise that I don't want to be treated in a certain way, but it probably wouldn't make me seem like the sort of guy she wanted to be with if I was going to be moody all the time and keep doing this. I decided that if I was going to continue I needed to be upbeat and happy all the time, but for good measure I was attempting to throw in more and more talk of the exciting things I was getting up to when she wasn't with me. In fact, I was even engineering such things purely to have something to tell her.

 

A couple of days after my last post, she told me that she was throwing a 'small and intimate' barbecue that Friday night at her house, and she asked me to go. I accepted, of course. This was Easter weekend so we had that Friday off work - not that this matters. I had a great time at the barbecue. I felt she was very attentive towards me, despite the fact that a lot of her other friends were there. My room mate was there as well, and he had later told me that he agreed with this observation and also noticed that she would always be looking towards me whenever she said or did something funny/interesting, even if I wasn't involved in that particular conversation or incident. Anyway, she got pretty drunk and ended up going off to bed before midnight, even though her party was still in full swing. At least she told me she was going to bed, though, and said good night. I felt quite privelidged as no one else was made aware.

 

We left shortly after that point, (the incentive to hang around had suddenly gone away.) The next day I sent her a message thanking her for a great evening, etc, etc, and she sent me one back thanking me for coming. That was all nice. Attempting to push the issue whilst it seemed good, I asked her what plans she had for the rest of the bank holiday weekend, but I got no reply. I followed it up with another message later that evening, but got no reply.

 

On the next day (Sunday) I sent a message in the morning asking if she was ignoring me. She replied that time, telling me that she wasn't and that she had just slept all Saturday and not seen my messages (?!?!) Anyway, I asked her what she was doing that evening and she said that she had a gig to go to, (making no sign of asking me to join her, incidentally.) Not giving up easily, I said 'ok, that's the evening, but what about this afternoon.' She seemed all out of excuses by this point so she agreed to meet me for a drink. Once again, I had to make the hour's bus trip to a pub (bar) near where she lives. When I got there she had turned up with her two room mates, (no reason she was obliged not to bring them I guess, but I would have preferred them not to be there.) She seemed in a particularly bad mood, barely speaking to me. At points when she was away from our table, both of her room mates, (her were also going to the evening's gig), asked me on separate occasions whether I was joining them that evening. Both times I said that I didn't know. I wanted to, of course, but I didn't feel that accepting the room mates' half invitations was the right thing to do. If she'd asked I would have said 'yes' in a second, but she didn't. Not only that, but we had only had two beers, (I guess about 45 minutes,) before she told me she had to go so we went our separate ways.

 

I was annoyed by this point. Ok, maybe I had kinda forced her into going out that afternoon, but if she really didn't want to or didn't want to see me, I would have preferred that she just said so rather than letting me spend a total of two hours on the bus in order to get 45 minutes with her, (and not solely with her) and that was 45 minutes of her being pretty cold and untalkative. Plus, I figured that out of politeness in that situation you would ask any one of your friends you happened to be with in the afternoon, if they fancied joining you to go and see the band you were going to see, (it was just a small band in a club - nothing you need tickets for or anything.) I got nothing.

 

We didn't speak on the bank holiday Monday. Back at work on Tuesday I emailed her saying 'What was wrong with you on Sunday?' She didn't deny that something was amiss, but just blamed it on hang-over and the fact that her room mate had really p*ssed her off all that weekend so it had put her in a bad mood. I said that I thought it was to do with me, and that I still thought that, but she went to great length to explain that it was no reflection on me whatsoever and that it was purely hang-over, the room mate and 'time of the month.'

 

Hmm, here's another decision to make, I thought. I could either drop the subject in order to not cause a confrontation and in order to avoid upsetting her, or I could press on and tell her that I didn't appreciate being let spend my afternoon riding around on buses so that I could just get three quarters of an hour of her being moody (whatever the reason). The second option, I considered, may well lead inevitably to the 'talk' as I felt that I would probably need to go on to clarify exactly why this bothered me so much. Not ready for the 'talk' still, I dropped the subject.

 

Over the last week or so, we had been talking about a new band that was making it big over here. We both liked them and I suggested (a couple of days after the above paragraph) that we get a group together and get tickets to go to see them. She agreed, (which actually surprised me,) so at the weekend I booked the tickets. She's bringing her two room mates and I'm not bringing anyone, (as much as anything because the people I asked didn't seem interested.) So I have this to look forward to now as it's not until June 26th. (Anything could happen by then, I guess, but I'll probably be in the same situation.)

 

On that Sunday, (April 17th) I asked her to go to the cinema with me. She said yes. On this occasion she brought three people with her. One was a room mate of hers that I knew, and the other two were two guys that she had met a few days previously - both students. This, of course, gave me cause for concern. After the movie we all went for a few drinks. I decided in my head, pretty quickly, that nothing had gone on with either guy, but that one of them was definitely interested in her. I think he was a little apprehensive of me and as soon as I first spoke to him he asked me a couple of questions which were definitely aimed at finding out whether I was a significant other or not. It frustrated me a lot that I didn't feel that I was in a position where I could give him any 'hands off' warnings. As the evening progressed he was clearly making subtle moves, but as far as I could detect he was getting no kind of positive reaction. I was just sat there observing this and trying to resist the temptation to get up and punch him! I did resist, although that evening seemed like a bit of a competition between him and I on several different levels.

 

From the next Thursday, through to the Monday we had some great weather - unseasonably hot. On the Friday I had made plans to get her to spend some time with me at the weekend, taking advantage of the sun, but she wasn't at work that day. I sent her an SMS asking her where she was, and it turned out she was sick. I asked if she was ok and whether there was anything I could do, blah blah, but I got no further reply. On the Saturday morning I sent her another message asking if she had recovered all right, (hoping to lead into me asking her out), but I got no reply. There's a pattern developing here, huh?

 

I dropped it for the rest of the weekend then. On the Monday at work she apologised for not replying to me at the weekend, saying that she had run out of phone credit. (You have pay-as-you-go cellphones over there, right?)

 

Having had a taste of the summer the previous weekend, I decided that I was going to throw a barbecue myself, so I asked her if she would like to come and she said yes. I proceeded with arrangements - invited about thirty other people, spent a large amount of money on food and drink, etc, etc. By Friday, (the day before yesterday,) this all turned a little bit weird. The weathermen were predicting rain and a few of the people that were going to come to my barbecue were complaining that the weather wasn't going to be good. Of course, I wanted good weather for my party as well. I ran the idea past her that I was thinking of moving it to the Sunday. She told me that she couldn't make Sunday, as did a few other people, so that suddenly didn't seem like such a good idea. At this point I was toying with the idea of canceling it and rescheduling for the next weekend, but she seemed really keen on the barbecue idea, (plus I was keyed up for it by this point,) so I decided to press ahead as planned.

 

The next part I had predicted to myself before it ever happened. I got an SMS from her last night, (about the time she was supposed to be turning up,) saying that she had only just got out of bed, (this was 6pm) and that she was very hung-over, (throwing up, etc,) so she wasn't going to be able to come. She also asked how I was, and how the weather was, etc.... This time it was me who didn't reply.

 

The barbecue went very well last night, incidentally. Loads of people turned up, the rain stayed away and a good drunken time was had by all... I was annoyed though. I still am. More than I can even describe. I Still haven't responded to her, because I still haven't figured out exactly what I want to say. You see, the thing is with this barbecue... whilst I wanted to have a barbecue anyway (I have a lot in the summer,) whilst I still would have gone ahead just the same if I didn't at any point think she was coming and whilst I had a good time anyway, the whole thing was still somehow geared towards her and planned around her. OK, I didn't spend any more money than I would have anyway, but I was wandering round the shops picking things that I thought she'd like, deciding on things to do at the barbecue that I thought she'd like, and picking out music that I thought she'd like to hear. That's just the way a lot of things are seeming to go with me - it's like she was the guest of honour, the main attraction. I also spent considerably longer tidying my house than I probably ordinarily would have done!!

 

So I'm trying to figure out whether I'm actually annoyed with her or whether I'm simply annoyed about not getting to see her and my hopes for the evening getting dashed. If it's the latter then I'd have no reason to tell her about my annoyance, because she wouldn't necessarily have any idea that my mindset was going to be as it was whilst organising my party - and I probably couldn't expect her to have any idea. However, what I am confident about is the fact that she knew I really wanted her to be there and she knew I was on the point of either canceling the barbecue or switching it to Sunday until she told me that she really wanted a barbecue on Saturday. Whether her excuse is true or made up makes no difference in my mind because I would have thought that she'd have the forethought in this circumstance to not get herself so drunk the previous night, knowing (which she must) that it would mean she'd be too ill to go out last night.

 

So, yeah. Annoyed. Angry. Upset. Frustrated. Pick a word - I'm still not sure which one fits best.

 

And this brings us up to date. I'm still at the pondering what to reply with point - hoping that she sends another message first that will give me a better idea of what to say (by now she knows I'm not happy because she knows I never normally leave it a long while without responding to her.)

 

I keep referring to the 'talk'. This, as you may know from my previous posts, is something which, for various reasons I have been trying to avoid. As of about the middle of last week I reached the point where I feel I am ready for the 'talk' as I see no other option open to me. I need to sit down with her again, tell her once more exactly how I feel. How it hasn't gone away, but it's actually gotten stronger. How it tears me apart to be avoided by her, to have my messages ignored and most importantly, to not be able to see her. I also need to say that if she cares for me at all then she needs to let me know that it is never going to happen, (if it is never going to happen) otherwise I may never be able to move on with my life.

 

As it goes, I had planned to do this on Friday just gone, but when I started arranging the barbecue I figured that we'd have this event first. I thought that it may give me one more shot at getting her to reveal her emotions, (if any positive ones are there to be revealed,) aided by alcohol's wonderful inhibition removing power. Hmm, putting it off didn't seem like it did much good, huh?

 

Once again, thanks for reading. As ever, any comments, advice or help would be much appreciated. Mind you, there's only a certain amount of advice that can be given to aid such a hopeless situation, I suppose. Particularly, if anyone has a thought on whether having this 'talk' (which seems like it might be occuring in the next few days) is a good or a bad idea, please let me know.

 

By the way, one more observation. As you may have spotted, aside from lunchtimes at work, there hasn't been one occasion where I've had her to myself since I last posted. The rejections have gotten more common, and when we do ever go out now, she always brings people with her. I have it in my head, (and this is one of the main reasons for being ready for the 'talk'), that she is seeing someone else, but is concealing it from me as she doesn't know how to tell me. This would explain why she would suddenly have this apprehension about going out with me alone, as maybe it would no longer seem right. I have no other basis for this theory, though. Any thoughts on that?

[R_E_D_needsadvice]

Man you have had it rough! I've went thru that for months but in my exprience, if the girl doesnt come out and tell you what she wants. Then she just doesnt want to hurt your feelings and tries to avoid the situation. It only makes it harder on you! I finally had enough and couldnt handle it anymore! I had enough of the mindgames, so I somewhat snapped (not in an angry way) and made her tell me what was going on. Turns out that I annoyed her to death by always wanting to have the "talk" and wanting to take up her free time.

 

So my advice would be have the "talk"! Be straight and open. Pretty much make her decide and tell you the truth. If you dont then this will keep going on. Dont make yourself suffer like you are! im sure you go to bed worrying and wake up feeling crapping, wanting to know answers.

 

If she hasnt come out and told you that she is wanting to date you. Then she never will. I would just move on. Its the hardest thing to do but your life goes on

even if its without her! Trust me, time heals the heart. I never would have believed it, but it's true! Just be patient! Good things come to those who wait! Im sure that I annoyed friends even by talking about her all the time. Another thing that helped me was praying and talking to God! I would just feel so much better after I prayed. It made me go to sleep easier. I wish you luck! But always expect the worse!