What is it that I don't get?

[phillyfan]

All this 'but he said he's leaving, but in 3 months, after his dogs birthday' or whateva....its SO blatantly a bunch of stupid lies, it goes against common sense. The dudes even make themselves sound low value, like theyre dumbazzes for saying such dumb stuff. Its like high school or somethin.

 

Its like looking at snow, knowin its white, him sayin its black, and you believin its black afta that, just cause the dude told you so. I want to ask what is it that I don't get? That has got you all believin such unbelivable stupid stories?

 

Btw no offense meant just genuinly want to know.

[maravilla]

I can't speak for all OWs. My guy is very charming, romantic and sweet and showers me with love and affection and attention. He and I connected on a level I had never felt before. The chemistry and the fact that he knows what I'm thinking before I even say anything. The finish-each-other's-sentences kind of bond. I thought he was such a great guy: handsome, intelligent, hard-working, successful, etc., and he thought all of these great things about me. It was like we were totally gaga about each other in a way that I have never known.

 

So with those strong feelings it is hard to believe that they can be lying. You want to believe what they're telling you and you do sense that they're struggling and because you love them you understand. I know my guy loves me and wants to be with me but at the same time I have come to realize he is unsure he can do what it takes to be with me, because he has conflicting loyalties to his wife and family. The second part took me awhile to figure out and I don't feel like my guy has directly lied to me- I think he believes he's saying it when he says it- but he also has other feelings and thoughts he doesn't share with me, or at least hadn't until I pretty much forced him to because things weren't making sense.

 

So that's how it is in my situation, I don't know if this helps you understand or not, I do agree it sounds silly from an outsider's perspective and is starting to seem silly from my own perspective!

[myname]

For me, it's a mix, there's a similar thing to Marvailla, the chemistry and connection which makes you want to believe, then there's the feeling of really understanding and accepting each other as humans, and with that comes the acceptance of human frailty, and how we are not perfect creatures that always know the best thing to do, how we make mistakes and that made me make allowances for his indecisiveness.

 

Also there's the fact that it's not all lies, or at least it doesn't seem to all be lies, the things that appear as truth, the things that later get proved to have been true, made me believe or at least not be sure about things that were lies, actually it's hard to really be sure they were lies as in out and out I know I'm lying to you now as opposed to I know you want to hear this and I want to make you feel better right now even though I'm not sure I can carry it through lies.

[GreenEyedLady]

All this 'but he said he's leaving, but in 3 months, after his dogs birthday' or whateva....its SO blatantly a bunch of stupid lies, it goes against common sense. The dudes even make themselves sound low value, like theyre dumbazzes for saying such dumb stuff. Its like high school or somethin.

 

Its like looking at snow, knowin its white, him sayin its black, and you believin its black afta that, just cause the dude told you so. I want to ask what is it that I don't get? That has got you all believin such unbelivable stupid stories?

 

Btw no offense meant just genuinly want to know.

 

You used the word dumb and stupid in your post 3 times and tell posters they have no common sense, without saying it directly.

 

And then you qualify it by saying no offense.

 

You might get more responses if you change your wording and attitude. This forum is for discussion for those involved with committed partners and coming in here and being so condescending and rude won't help you find the answers you seek.

 

GEL

[Lauriebell82]

You used the word dumb and stupid in your post 3 times and tell posters they have no common sense, without saying it directly.

 

And then you qualify it by saying no offense.

 

You might get more responses if you change your wording and attitude. This forum is for discussion for those involved with committed partners and coming in here and being so condescending and rude won't help you find the answers you seek.

 

GEL

 

I agree, I'm surprised the two previous posters didn't get super defensive at your OP.

 

Now, I am not an OW and I do not believe in having an affair or anything of the sort. I think it is wrong and hurtful to everyone involved.

 

I do have to wonder though what the "connection" would be like if the MM or MW was SINGLE when you met them. Part of the connection and electricity is because of the excitement and the feeling of "getting away with it." Take that away and you just have a relationship with all the problems that go along with it. If it was "allowed sex" would it still be exciting to you? Probably not.

 

I'm not judging, just an observation there and my opinion on A. I am an addictions counselor and part of the "high" that my pateints tell me is that they know drug use is "wrong" and they shouldn't be doing it. That's part of the thrill. When they start to recover and think more clearly they can see that.

 

Too bad there isn't "affair rehab." Someone would make a bundle off of that!

[myname]

I agree, I'm surprised the two previous posters didn't get super defensive at your OP.

 

Now, I am not an OW and I do not believe in having an affair or anything of the sort. I think it is wrong and hurtful to everyone involved.

 

I do have to wonder though what the "connection" would be like if the MM or MW was SINGLE when you met them. Part of the connection and electricity is because of the excitement and the feeling of "getting away with it." Take that away and you just have a relationship with all the problems that go along with it. If it was "allowed sex" would it still be exciting to you? Probably not.

 

I'm not judging, just an observation there and my opinion on A. I am an addictions counselor and part of the "high" that my pateints tell me is that they know drug use is "wrong" and they shouldn't be doing it. That's part of the thrill. When they start to recover and think more clearly they can see that.

 

Too bad there isn't "affair rehab." Someone would make a bundle off of that!

 

I've wondered the same as you about the chemistry and connection and whether if it was a more real relationship would that still be there. It's hard to tell.

 

Is it because every moment feels like you've got to make the most of it cos you don't know when it's going to be taken away. Does it feel more special cos of the difficulties, cos of the efforts you both have to go to? I did talk about this with MM, he said that the difficulties and the efforts were actually just a pain. Who knows? I certainly wanted to have nice times with him when I did see him, and when it'd been hard to see him cos of the situation I felt grateful for the efforts made and responded with my own efforts. But the chemistry still felt real regardless, I suppose it would, that's the nature of it.

 

I'm not feeling defensive right now, cos I'm into trying to understand what it is in me that got me here and this thread seemed to give the opportunity to explore that.

[alexandria35]

I agree, I'm surprised the two previous posters didn't get super defensive at your OP.

 

Now, I am not an OW and I do not believe in having an affair or anything of the sort. I think it is wrong and hurtful to everyone involved.

 

I do have to wonder though what the "connection" would be like if the MM or MW was SINGLE when you met them. Part of the connection and electricity is because of the excitement and the feeling of "getting away with it." Take that away and you just have a relationship with all the problems that go along with it. If it was "allowed sex" would it still be exciting to you? Probably not.

 

I'm not judging, just an observation there and my opinion on A. I am an addictions counselor and part of the "high" that my pateints tell me is that they know drug use is "wrong" and they shouldn't be doing it. That's part of the thrill. When they start to recover and think more clearly they can see that.

 

Too bad there isn't "affair rehab." Someone would make a bundle off of that!

 

Also skilled manipulators can create that special connection that so many OW/OM think they have with their married person. A manipulator listens and observes, then mirrors. They love everything you love, they think the same things you think, they have the same goals, same values, they share your ideals and philosophies. They love and admire everything about you. And in no time they have you believing that you are experiencing some kind of cosmic, soulmate connection. Sometimes manipulators don't even do this consciously, it's something that comes naturally to them because they have such a weak sense of self that it's easy for them to just walk into somebody elses life and take on that persons identity. Most people think that they could never be fooled by this and that they would know if they were being manipulated in such a way. Not true.

[PoshPrincess]

I agree, I'm surprised the two previous posters didn't get super defensive at your OP.

 

 

Speaking as an ex-OW, I'm sure I would've been offended by this posting back in the day but now I can see things more clearly.

 

It my situation it really was all BS...as far as I can see...but my ex-MM still swears blind he meant every word at the time. I would love to believe that as the case as it would make me feel less gullible but to move on I had to convince myself that he was just a player and never had any intention of leaving his wife. That, now, it pretty obvious as five years later they are still together. The kids are grown up now and more or less off his hands so he can hardly use them as an 'excuse'. Of course, he is still 'unhappy' blah blah blah, yawn yawn, I've heard it all before, etc....I can't say I'm completely over him and not sure that I ever will be but the more I see him the more I realise what a complete pratt he is which is something I suppose!

 

I hate myself for even going there!

[PoshPrincess]

Too bad there isn't "affair rehab." Someone would make a bundle off of that!

 

If you ever start one up you can count me in! And you're right - someone would make a killer!

[jennie-jennie]

I agree, I'm surprised the two previous posters didn't get super defensive at your OP.

 

Now, I am not an OW and I do not believe in having an affair or anything of the sort. I think it is wrong and hurtful to everyone involved.

 

I do have to wonder though what the "connection" would be like if the MM or MW was SINGLE when you met them. Part of the connection and electricity is because of the excitement and the feeling of "getting away with it." Take that away and you just have a relationship with all the problems that go along with it. If it was "allowed sex" would it still be exciting to you? Probably not.

 

I'm not judging, just an observation there and my opinion on A. I am an addictions counselor and part of the "high" that my pateints tell me is that they know drug use is "wrong" and they shouldn't be doing it. That's part of the thrill. When they start to recover and think more clearly they can see that.

 

Too bad there isn't "affair rehab." Someone would make a bundle off of that!

 

Having been in love with the same man once when he was single and once when he was married, I know it is not his status but him I am attracted to. The feelings between us were as intense both times, the highs as high.

[jennie-jennie]

Speaking as an ex-OW, I'm sure I would've been offended by this posting back in the day but now I can see things more clearly.

 

It my situation it really was all BS...as far as I can see...but my ex-MM still swears blind he meant every word at the time. I would love to believe that as the case as it would make me feel less gullible but to move on I had to convince myself that he was just a player and never had any intention of leaving his wife. That, now, it pretty obvious as five years later they are still together. The kids are grown up now and more or less off his hands so he can hardly use them as an 'excuse'. Of course, he is still 'unhappy' blah blah blah, yawn yawn, I've heard it all before, etc....I can't say I'm completely over him and not sure that I ever will be but the more I see him the more I realise what a complete pratt he is which is something I suppose!

 

I hate myself for even going there!

 

I would say the bolded above is a common tactic to be able to break away from these intense love relationships. Convince yourself that the MM is a jerk and that there was no real love to begin with so you don't have to experience the pain (and the pleasure) of being an OW anymore.

[maravilla]

I would say the bolded above is a common tactic to be able to break away from these intense love relationships. Convince yourself that the MM is a jerk and that there was no real love to begin with so you don't have to experience the pain (and the pleasure) of being an OW anymore.

 

In my case it was that he really is a jerk and there was no real love because real love would have honored its promises, put me first and did what it took to have me and only me in his life. Not strung me along and behaved cowardly.

[BB07]

I would say the bolded above is a common tactic to be able to break away from these intense love relationships. Convince yourself that the MM is a jerk and that there was no real love to begin with so you don't have to experience the pain (and the pleasure) of being an OW anymore.

 

Maybe it's more common that the OW/OM finally sees the truth when the pain outweighs the pleasure. That smoke that mm/mw blows up the ass starts to let off a nasty stench eventually.

 

Love isn't supposed to be long suffering or give you more grief than pleasure and if that is the case, then you gotta admit something needs to change but in your case, you obviously have more pleasure than pain, so you are OK with it.

[Fieldsofgold]

I think this is a refreshingly honest thread, and invites participants to explore the "why's."

 

I had an interesting situation, in that I dated a man who presented himself as single and available, while in fact he was married and had an OW for 10 years. I didn't realize it, but our relationship had a lot of the dynamics of an affair.

 

I looked back and asked myself why I believed him, why didn't I notice some of his inconsistencies, etc. And what about that speshul connection we had? Can't blame any of it on affair fog, or the "this is wrong" high - at least not for me, since I had no clue I was the OOW!

 

One thing I realized, like Alexandria said ( excellent post, BTW!) he really "knew how to connect," having all the same "top priorities" in life, etc. (mirroring me.) Don't know if that was intentional - don't care! Also, he could promise me 'love' and 'forever' with wild abandon - with a W and looong term OW, HE knew he didn't have to follow through. It's easy to promise someone the moon, when you KNOW you don't have to deliver. It's like the old "Oh, you'll take a check? I have a check!" joke.

 

I also NOW know about compartmentalizing. I think he was a master at it. I think he was so darn believable, in part, because when he was with me, I WAS the only woman that existed for him! And he REALLY, at that moment, in that place, REALLY meant it. So it was very convincing.

 

Why didn't I question his excuses, dodges, alibi's when he didn't call, didn't answer txts, or had to cancel a date? I don't know for sure, but I think one possibility is that I am a very honest and straight-forward person. I'm told that we assume others are like us. If that's true, why wouldn't I believe him? I'm trustworthy, and I've had some pretty unbelievable things happen to keep me from returning a call in a timely manner, or keeping an appointment.

 

I don't really know WHY I believed him, believed in him. I thought I was smarter, sharper than to be conned that badly by someone. Your OP question is something that has troubled me for months, and I, for one, would REALLY, REALLY like to have some good answers, so I can avoid future pitfalls.

 

(While I don't really know all the reasons why I believed him, I do have plans to check things out better, in the future.)

[phillyfan]

Green Eyed Lady - Woah lady speak for yourself - don't tell me what I think - I do a pretty good job of that myself thanks.

 

Anyways, thanks to all that replied - wow - some stories. Yknow what, Laurie Bell said some pretty clever/clear stuff about this, and then a bunch of posters give examples of exactly what she says. Laurie Bell are u a psych?

 

I was a real playa once, and I can see a bit on this board what the fall out looks like - I'm pretty sad/guilty about that tbh. I guess u just dont think about it so much at the time, it is selfishness, these guys sound the same. At least I was neva married when I acted that way, these guys should be ashamed.

 

Anyay thanks guys for the straight talk - great insight - you sound like angels, I think thats why they go for you, the good girls are always easier to charm (sad but tru). You girls are honest, it is refreshing.

[jennie-jennie]

Maybe it's more common that the OW/OM finally sees the truth when the pain outweighs the pleasure. That smoke that mm/mw blows up the ass starts to let off a nasty stench eventually.

 

Love isn't supposed to be long suffering or give you more grief than pleasure and if that is the case, then you gotta admit something needs to change but in your case, you obviously have more pleasure than pain, so you are OK with it.

 

It's all about perspective. You can make your own hell just by choosing how you look at things.

[donnamaybe]

It's all about perspective. You can make your own hell just by choosing how you look at things.

You can also create your own "heaven" if you refuse to look at things.

[jennie-jennie]

You can also create your own "heaven" if you refuse to look at things.

 

That must be what my MM's wife is doing. His cell phone is full of nude pictures of me, IMing with me, emailing with me. He doesn't delete anything. His cell phone is available to her daily, yet she refuses to look at what is right in front of her eyes.

 

His "business" trips are becoming more and more frequent and longer for each time. He "has" to leave early to get a better price on the flight. And yet there is never any financial beneficial outcome of any of these trips.

 

Their sex life is non existent. Their intimacy is non existent.

 

My MM's wife is very different from me. I look things straight in the eye and then I decide what I think about them, what my gut feeling is. She puts blinders on. I guess she might think that at least he is with her now. If she looked too close, she might indeed open the gates to a living hell, better keep those doors closed.

[jthorne]

Gosh, guess I'll have to start checking my hubby's cell each night when he gets home, and him mine. *note to self: delete nude pic of Henry Cavill asap*

And I guess I should be paranoid that the man I love and trust with my life might be up to something every time he goes out of town.

 

Perhaps if a MM is skilled good at lying, a BS might not have a reason to suspect a thing. That doesn't mean the BS wears blinders, it means the WS is a good liar.

 

If BW put blinders on, I remember an OW being somewhat blindsided when MM told her he had sex with his wife. Works both ways, no?

 

Could be commonplace for both OW and BS to don the blinders when it suits them. Blinders, no blinders, only MM knows the real truth.

Edited November 17, 2010 by jthorne

[fooled once]

I think this is a refreshingly honest thread, and invites participants to explore the "why's."

 

I had an interesting situation, in that I dated a man who presented himself as single and available, while in fact he was married and had an OW for 10 years. I didn't realize it, but our relationship had a lot of the dynamics of an affair.

 

I looked back and asked myself why I believed him, why didn't I notice some of his inconsistencies, etc. And what about that speshul connection we had? Can't blame any of it on affair fog, or the "this is wrong" high - at least not for me, since I had no clue I was the OOW!

 

One thing I realized, like Alexandria said ( excellent post, BTW!) he really "knew how to connect," having all the same "top priorities" in life, etc. (mirroring me.) Don't know if that was intentional - don't care! Also, he could promise me 'love' and 'forever' with wild abandon - with a W and looong term OW, HE knew he didn't have to follow through. It's easy to promise someone the moon, when you KNOW you don't have to deliver. It's like the old "Oh, you'll take a check? I have a check!" joke.

 

I also NOW know about compartmentalizing. I think he was a master at it. I think he was so darn believable, in part, because when he was with me, I WAS the only woman that existed for him! And he REALLY, at that moment, in that place, REALLY meant it. So it was very convincing.

 

Why didn't I question his excuses, dodges, alibi's when he didn't call, didn't answer txts, or had to cancel a date? I don't know for sure, but I think one possibility is that I am a very honest and straight-forward person. I'm told that we assume others are like us. If that's true, why wouldn't I believe him? I'm trustworthy, and I've had some pretty unbelievable things happen to keep me from returning a call in a timely manner, or keeping an appointment.

 

I don't really know WHY I believed him, believed in him. I thought I was smarter, sharper than to be conned that badly by someone. Your OP question is something that has troubled me for months, and I, for one, would REALLY, REALLY like to have some good answers, so I can avoid future pitfalls.

 

(While I don't really know all the reasons why I believed him, I do have plans to check things out better, in the future.)

 

FoG - great post as usual. You really can put into words so many times what I am thinking! Thank you for posting as much as you do. I truly look forward to reading them!

 

Gosh, guess I'll have to start checking my hubby's cell each night when he gets home, and him mine. *note to self: delete nude pic of Henry Cavill asap*

And I guess I should be paranoid that the man I love and trust with my life might be up to something every time he goes out of town.

 

A BW may put blinders on, but I remember one OW being somewhat blindsided when MM told her he had sex with his wife.

 

Seems like it might be commonplace for both OW and BS to don the blinders when it suits them. Blinders, no blinders, only MM knows the real truth.

 

As a wife, I can tell you that I never check my husband's phone, never check our cell phone bill, do not read his email nor worry about who he is IMing.

 

Know why? Cause he shows me daily why I love him. He is with me (when work doesn't take him or me away), he dotes on me, he pampers me, he makes love to me and he listens to me. He has never given me a reason to doubt anything about him. And his actions show me that I am the woman he loves.

 

I refuse to allow the thoughts of others to ever change my way of thinking of us and our MARRIAGE. Affairs are easy to accomplish - in today's world, it isn't hard to find someone willing to cheat with. what is hard to find is someone who is loyal, loving, caring and monogamous. Marriage is a growing, nurturing relationship. Those that take it seriously are to be applauded. Those that are true to their vows are to be appreciated. Marriages do end (been there, done that) ... and it is the classy person who ends the marriage without having an affair partner waiting in the wings to "win" them. I will take a good old divorce any day over a cheating pig. Even my ex who is a loser had more class than men who cheat because he at least took his vow of loyalty seriously. He chose to honor his vows as opposed to trashing them like so many do. Those are the ones who I have zippo respect for.

[Lauriebell82]

That must be what my MM's wife is doing. His cell phone is full of nude pictures of me, IMing with me, emailing with me. He doesn't delete anything. His cell phone is available to her daily, yet she refuses to look at what is right in front of her eyes.

 

His "business" trips are becoming more and more frequent and longer for each time. He "has" to leave early to get a better price on the flight. And yet there is never any financial beneficial outcome of any of these trips.

 

Their sex life is non existent. Their intimacy is non existent.

 

My MM's wife is very different from me. I look things straight in the eye and then I decide what I think about them, what my gut feeling is. She puts blinders on. I guess she might think that at least he is with her now. If she looked too close, she might indeed open the gates to a living hell, better keep those doors closed.

 

Oh, so she should just "know better" then? And you DON'T know their sex life is non-existent...you aren't there. You sound very self righteous, like you think you are better then MM's wife, like she deserves the pain you are causing her. I can understand why you are thinking this way, it gives you a reason to keep behaving the way you are and not have to feel guilt or shame.

 

Maybe she doesn't put blinders on, maybe she is just too scared to look..

[Fieldsofgold]

You can also create your own "heaven" if you refuse to look at things.

 

I really think this is what keeps a lot of OW accepting disrespectful and

unloving relationships. They maximize the shred of "good" in

the relationship and turn a blind eye to the bad - or reinterpret the bad to something more palatable.

 

I think that is how they are able to settle for less, and at least for a while, feel good about it.

[Lauriebell82]

I really think this is what keeps a lot of OW accepting disrespectful and

unloving relationships. They maximize the shred of "good" in

the relationship and turn a blind eye to the bad - or reinterpret the bad to something more palatable.

 

I think that is how they are able to settle for less, and at least for a while, feel good about it.

 

Yeah, I would agree with this. It's like having an addiction: rationalization, minimization, and denial are hallmark behaviors of an OW.

[Fieldsofgold]

Oh, so she should just "know better" then? And you DON'T know their sex life is non-existent...you aren't there. You sound very self righteous, like you think you are better then MM's wife, like she deserves the pain you are causing her. I can understand why you are thinking this way, it gives you a reason to keep behaving the way you are and not have to feel guilt or shame.

 

Maybe she doesn't put blinders on, maybe she is just too scared to look..

 

Maybe the wife doesn't check up on him, because maybe he treats her like

an angel. Maybe he is very good and loving and thoughtful to her. Maybe he treats her like she is so totally special, his one and only. Only the MM knows for sure. (speaking of MM in general - not one in particular)

 

My bf was an interesting example. Hate to be redundant, but for those who don't know the story - turned out he was mm w a 10 yr *live-in* affair on the side. He had two houses, and his OW was his primary relationship. He spent much more time wit her than w his wife. But when he was with me, it was obvious to me and everyone else, I was the love of his life. You could see it in his eyes, his actions, everything. Of course, he was the same way when with his wife, and with his OW. LOL!

 

He was soooo good at compartmentalizing. And of course, he lied like a rug to all three of us, gaslighted all three of us - his OW the most, me second, and actually his W the least! (when I found out about him, the three of us women talked!)

Edited November 17, 2010 by Fieldsofgold

[Fieldsofgold]

Your MM's and his wife have 6 kids, she doesn't have time to be spying on her husband. He does have sex with her, but he probably won't make the mistake of telling you about it again. Since you have a long distance relationship with him, he can pretty much tell you anything.

 

Seems like you think his wife is stupid because she believes whatever her husband tells her, but you are the same as her. You believe whatever he tells you too.

 

I might add that when a MM knows the OW will tell the W if he ever breaks up with OW, that's some serious motivation to keep things good.