American Women: Threatened by Foreign Women?

[that girl]

I think your A and B example is too narrow and even falsely suggests that the reason why American guys like foreign women is because they are lacking in confidence, communication, charisma etc.

 

As a guy who talks to and knows men who married foreign women, I find that they are attracted to these women because they are family oriented, they understand reciprocation, they are balanced good partners overall.

 

I find these generalizations about foreign women to be ridiculous. Irish women are very different from Colombian women who are very different from Russian women who are very different from French women who are very different from Chinese women.

 

The whole idea of foreign women vs. American women means that the person isn't seeing women as people or even has a basic understanding of world cultures.

 

There is hardly a shortage of family orriented American women and some women do just get married for a green card.

[Woggle]

It is a generalization but after dealing with a certain amount of drama I can understand why a man would want a woman from a culture that raises her to treat men different from how his ex treated him. My father does not want a foreign woman but he has said the only way he will ever marry again is if she is young and obedient. This is blatantly sexist but I refuse to judge him for feeling that way. These men who think foreign women are so much better are pretty much at the end of their rope dealing with American women.

[Mad Max]

Whenever soemobdy tells me a certain city has more good looking women the others i roll my eyes because i figure every place is the same mostly average some below some abvove but id say the majority of women in Montreal are attractive its amazing

 

Is anyone overweight in Monteal?

 

 

Canada overall isn't far behind the states in terms of obesity. Québec is the least overweight province in Canada after British Columbia. You would have to venture beyond downtown Montréal to see this. If you traveled to the West Island, the South Shore, and the other side of the Champlain Bridge, you'll see obese people.

[You'reasian]

I find these generalizations about foreign women to be ridiculous. Irish women are very different from Colombian women who are very different from Russian women who are very different from French women who are very different from Chinese women.

 

The whole idea of foreign women vs. American women means that the person isn't seeing women as people or even has a basic understanding of world cultures.

 

There is hardly a shortage of family orriented American women and some women do just get married for a green card.

 

You're right in the sense that you do have to see your woman as the individual she is. Personality is just as important as any other attribute, like culture, religion etc. There are wonderful, family-oriented American women out there as well.

 

Personally, I've always suggested that a man should change up his venue, location etc, if he's had bad luck/experiences before charging off into the "foreign women are better" scene. I think some men are struggling to find them and/or have had enough diverse experiences to realize that its time to try a different approach and stop going after the same kinds of women.

[112233]

Whenever soemobdy tells me a certain city has more good looking women the others i roll my eyes because i figure every place is the same mostly average some below some abvove...

 

Actually I've been around and the number of fatties seems related somewhat to four factors. I'm sure more but four I can identify.

 

• Genetics. Some places have a lot of sleek Asian and other genetic bloodlines in more abundance and seem to resist getting as fat as some others.
• Activity. Places that are warmer and that promote outdoor active type free time activities, even if it's just going out and walking around the weekend open market, seem less fat.
• Weather. Related but not the same, places that are warm and afford people less opportunity to hide their bodies seem to promote better self maintenance.
• Money. Hot women seem to gravitate to money. Areas with a high median income are usually stuffed to the gills with hot women. Dallas, Sunnyvale, etc.

[MrNate]

We have plenty of very beautiful, nice, intelligent and sexy women here in the USA. Why would they feel threatened?

[112233]

We have plenty of very beautiful, nice, intelligent and sexy women here in the USA. Why would they feel threatened?

 

They probably are not, it's the other 80% of the women that feel a little uneasy about "letting" American guys date foreign women. Look at which organizations argued for IMBRA, for instance.

[MrNate]

They probably are not, it's the other 80% of the women that feel a little uneasy about "letting" American guys date foreign women. Look at which organizations argued for IMBRA, for instance.

 

I'm sure most don't feel uneasy about it lol. Why would they need to feel uneasy?

[112233]

I'm sure most don't feel uneasy about it lol. Why would they need to feel uneasy?

 

Why did IMBRA pass so easily?

[MrNate]

Why did IMBRA pass so easily?

 

Please inform me, what is this 'IMBRA'?

[donnamaybe]

Oh, goody. Another ignorant thread designed to denigrate American women.

[zengirl]

Please inform me, what is this 'IMBRA'?

 

IMBRA is a law designed to protect foreign women from being trafficked as brides and brought into situations where they are coerced or abused.

 

Basically it's designed to ensure marriages are marriages, and that the women aren't being treated as chattel. It passed because of high profile cases, like Anastasia King. It only really relates to meeting a foreign bride (or husband, I suppose) through an agency of some kind and puts up almost no impediments to marrying a foreigner and gaining all legal statuses and rights, if you actually meet them, either in the U.S. or in another country. Even if you meet through agencies, it just provides hoops to go through, in the hopes that people aren't being essentially "bought" as wives.

 

It's actually incorporated into the most recent Violence Against Women Act, I believe. It's got nothing to do with attempting to make life more difficult for foreign women -- quite the opposite, the goal is to do what we can to protect these women from systems that are often exploitative.

[donnamaybe]

IMBRA is a law designed to protect foreign women from being trafficked as brides and brought into situations where they are coerced or abused.

 

Basically it's designed to ensure marriages are marriages, and that the women aren't being treated as chattel. It passed because of high profile cases, like Anastasia King. It only really relates to meeting a foreign bride (or husband, I suppose) through an agency of some kind and puts up almost no impediments to marrying a foreigner and gaining all legal statuses and rights, if you actually meet them, either in the U.S. or in another country. Even if you meet through agencies, it just provides hoops to go through, in the hopes that people aren't being essentially "bought" as wives.

 

It's actually incorporated into the most recent Violence Against Women Act, I believe. It's got nothing to do with attempting to make life more difficult for foreign women -- quite the opposite, the goal is to do what we can to protect these women from systems that are often exploitative.

So THAT's what it is? And someone on LS seriously tried to use THIS as an example of how American women are "threatened" by foreign women? Good gawd.

[Mme. Chaucer]

The entire concept that American women as a whole would or could be threatened by "foreign women" ( women from every country on Earth other than America? All of those women? Really?) is a laughable one. I can't imagine the thought process behind such an idea.

 

There is certainly a thriving business involving mail order brides. I've posted before that my brother, a man over 50 years old who has not worked at a steady job in decades and who is emotionally unstable (BPD) managed to purchase an exquisite 25 year old woman from Peru, whom he's married. (He recently received a modest inheritance.) Good for him. And, I hope with all my heart, good for her, her 7 year old son, and their new baby.

 

He is a lot like many of you guys in his attitude about "American women." I do fear that after a while, his attitude could morph to include Peruvian women or perhaps the entire world of "foreign women."

 

So's a guy who's done a lot of work here on the farm for me. He was married to a US woman, has a grown daughter, his marriage ended somehow badly and left him bitter and with a monstrous chip on his shoulder. 3 years ago through some service, he connected with a woman in the Philippines. After one meeting but over a year of intense correspondence, he married her and she came to live with him. They are separated now, and he is writhing in bitterness about how she took advantage of him.

 

On a cheerier note, I know another hater of my American sisters who lives in San Francisco (he's my friend's landlord - he hates her too). Mike is on his THIRD bride imported especially for him from China. He's not bitter or feeling used by his first two - he just tired of them and felt he could do better, so he upgraded.

 

If American men who have problems with American women seek women from alternative cultures, I only hope that the judgements and other baggage they are carrying with them don't make them have unreasonable expectations of power and control since they've landed women from cultures where gender roles are more "traditionally" defined.

 

I believe that men who "don't like" American women are not desirable to American women anyway. Who wants to be with a person who comes with a pile of bigotry towards your particular group of people? Sounds like a recipe for misery.

 

Personally, i like to be with a man who likes ME and the myriad of things I stand for and that have made me who I am, including the culture I came from. I'll say it again, we like what we like.

[irc333]

So's a guy who's done a lot of work here on the farm for me. He was married to a US woman, has a grown daughter, his marriage ended somehow badly and left him bitter and with a monstrous chip on his shoulder. 3 years ago through some service, he connected with a woman in the Philippines. After one meeting but over a year of intense correspondence, he married her and she came to live with him. They are separated now, and he is writhing in bitterness about how she took advantage of him.

 

 

I was speaking with a female friend of mine that works at a hospital, that's the kind of field where you'll see TONS of Phillipina women on a work Visa working in that field.

 

She told me that in the Phillipines, prior to coming to the states, they have classes on how to find a man to obtain a VISA, and even how to go about divorcing him if they want to move on to become independent once again, but this time with an American citizenship.

 

This particular country is booming with the mail-order bride business, if not that, they just come to the USA, get a temporary work VISA and find a man on their off time.

 

That being said, it's good to guard your heart and be careful, that's pretty much it.

[samspade]

I married a foreign woman. Not a mail order bride mind you.

 

I don't think American women need to feel "threatened."

 

But I do believe American men should explore women from other cultures if they can.

 

If you ask me, the biggest shortcoming (please excuse the word) of American women is that they have confused independence and strength with femininity. Those are masculine attributes. There's nothing wrong with a woman who's self-assured and successful, but those attributes just don't cross over to attractiveness. As a result, the US has a lot of strong, independent, successful females who are on the fast track to bitterness, solitude, or (at best) single motherhood or marriage to a weaker man.

 

In all fairness, I will add that the same (but reverse) situation exists with American men. Too many have adopted effeminate traits - and I'm not just talking about baby bjorns. American men refuse to stand up and be masculine - they have allowed themselves to be betas to the scores of shrill female alphas out there. In fact, they probably created the power vacuum first; women are filling it. Again, as a result we have a lot of pathetic men who wind up in emasculating relationships, often for life, because they didn't realize the power they had.

 

Thus are American men challenged to "man up" by women - often in ways that have nothing to do with being a man, but which serve the female agenda.

 

Depending on the country, an American man can find a woman who is more feminine, and an American woman can find a man who is more masculine, than typically found in the US.

 

I just want to add that I'm not implying some 50's ideal (or non-ideal) here. I hate when people use the 50s, whether it be to prop up family values or to denigrate the patriarchy. Most people younger than 60 have no idea what the 50s were really like; they get their information from popular culture. When people say the 50s were some magical/oppressive era of female subservience, I'm just not buying it.

 

However, I do believe that there are masculine and feminine characteristics that transcend culture, and that are keys to attraction, relationships, and sex. And I think that we've muddied them by way of social progress. Social progress in and of itself is admirable, but as I said before, we've polluted the laws of attraction because we've confused things like fairness and equality in society with androgyny in the world of relationships.

 

My $.02.

Edited December 16, 2010 by samspade

[donnamaybe]

If you ask me, the biggest shortcoming (please excuse the word) of American women is that they have confused independence and strength with femininity. Those are masculine attributes. There's nothing wrong with a woman who's self-assured and successful, but those attributes just don't cross over to attractiveness. As a result, the US has a lot of strong, independent, successful females who are on the fast track to bitterness, solitude, or (at best) single motherhood or marriage to a weaker man.

So you've now declared that a woman can't possibly be independent and feminine at the same time? That's HYSTERICAL!

 

Not to mention narrow minded and ignorant. I'm certain, though, that there are men who actually need that simpering female type in order that they can feel masculine. Thank GOODNESS my man already feels masculine without any help from me.

 

I'm quite independent; a "strong woman" I've been called. I also embrace my femininity wholeheartedly. I have a VERY strong man. He's also quite independent, smart, and strong willed. We make quite a formidable team.

[sweetjasmine]

I'm certain, though, that there are men who actually need that simpering female type in order that they can feel masculine.

 

What's funny to me is that in a lot of cultures in developing nations, women hold "weaker" positions in the public sphere but are strong and dominant in the private sphere. In many Slavic cultures, women end up running the household, and men are controlled by their mothers and wives, but the overall impression that outsiders get is that men are manly strong men and women are submissive pretty trophies who pop out babies. It's an interesting dynamic.

[donnamaybe]

What's funny to me is that in a lot of cultures in developing nations, women hold "weaker" positions in the public sphere but are strong and dominant in the private sphere. In many Slavic cultures, women end up running the household, and men are controlled by their mothers and wives, but the overall impression that outsiders get is that men are manly strong men and women are submissive pretty trophies who pop out babies. It's an interesting dynamic.

Have you ever seen that movie Coming to America? There's a scene in there where the hand picked bride is talking to the prince prior to the wedding. He keeps asking her what her likes and dislikes are, and she keeps responding, "Whatever you like." "Whatever kind of food you like." "Whatever kind of music you like." It wraps up with her barking like a dog and hopping on one foot all the way out the door.

[112233]

Basically it's designed to ensure marriages are marriages, and that the women aren't being treated as chattel.

 

Surely American women should be afforded those same protections? Surely all people who meet online should be subject to the same requirements.

[112233]

Have you ever seen that movie Coming to America? There's a scene in there where the hand picked bride is talking to the prince prior to the wedding. He keeps asking her what her likes and dislikes are, and she keeps responding, "Whatever you like." "Whatever kind of food you like." "Whatever kind of music you like." It wraps up with her barking like a dog and hopping on one foot all the way out the door.

 

Why no, but thanks for bringing that up because I'm well aware that what we are shown in Eddie Murphy comedies is real. Excellent point.

[zengirl]

Surely American women should be afforded those same protections? Surely all people who meet online should be subject to the same requirements.

 

First of all, people who meet online from other nations aren't even subject to those requirements; they're purely for broker situations. If I meet someone through Match.com in another country, IMBRA does not generally apply, unless I pay a broker money to bring them over.

 

Second of all, American women generally speak the language, understand the culture, and have the rights of citizens, thus they need no additional recourse to ensure their safety in marriage beyond the standard laws. The law is not designed to make marrying someone you care for difficult---it's designed to make brokering marriages (trafficking women, essentially) unprofitable.

 

I married a foreign woman. Not a mail order bride mind you.

 

I don't think American women need to feel "threatened."

 

But I do believe American men should explore women from other cultures if they can.

 

If you ask me, the biggest shortcoming (please excuse the word) of American women is that they have confused independence and strength with femininity. Those are masculine attributes. There's nothing wrong with a woman who's self-assured and successful, but those attributes just don't cross over to attractiveness. As a result, the US has a lot of strong, independent, successful females who are on the fast track to bitterness, solitude, or (at best) single motherhood or marriage to a weaker man.

 

In all fairness, I will add that the same (but reverse) situation exists with American men. Too many have adopted effeminate traits - and I'm not just talking about baby bjorns. American men refuse to stand up and be masculine - they have allowed themselves to be betas to the scores of shrill female alphas out there. In fact, they probably created the power vacuum first; women are filling it. Again, as a result we have a lot of pathetic men who wind up in emasculating relationships, often for life, because they didn't realize the power they had.

 

Thus are American men challenged to "man up" by women - often in ways that have nothing to do with being a man, but which serve the female agenda.

 

Depending on the country, an American man can find a woman who is more feminine, and an American woman can find a man who is more masculine, than typically found in the US.

 

I just want to add that I'm not implying some 50's ideal (or non-ideal) here. I hate when people use the 50s, whether it be to prop up family values or to denigrate the patriarchy. Most people younger than 60 have no idea what the 50s were really like; they get their information from popular culture. When people say the 50s were some magical/oppressive era of female subservience, I'm just not buying it.

 

However, I do believe that there are masculine and feminine characteristics that transcend culture, and that are keys to attraction, relationships, and sex. And I think that we've muddied them by way of social progress. Social progress in and of itself is admirable, but as I said before, we've polluted the laws of attraction because we've confused things like fairness and equality in society with androgyny in the world of relationships.

 

My $.02.

 

I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with marrying whomever you like, but defining narrow terms of masculinity and feminity seems unfair to me. You describe both men AND women acting in ways you find unattractive and inappropriate. Fine, for you. Anyone can find what they like attractive, and I'm not saying many wouldn't agree with you. Goodness, I think I come off as generally quite feminine, and I've certainly not had much dating trouble. However, different people are attracted to different things. Why make it about alpha and beta? Let individuals be individuals.

 

Any attractive female or male is going to have both yin (female energy) and yang (male energy). The path of least resistance for women might be yin, but that doesn't mean a woman with more yang is wrong or will wind up unhappy. Plenty wind up just fine. The same with men and yang. Love and sexuality are ever-evolving.

 

That said, I've no issue with foreign women. Or with folks dating whomever they find most attractive, so long as they aren't taking advantage of foreign women.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

But I do believe American men should explore women from other cultures if they can.

 

So do I. In fact, I believe that men and women both should explore people and things from as many other cultures as they can.

 

If you ask me, the biggest shortcoming (please excuse the word) of American women is that they have confused independence and strength with femininity.

 

Really? I have differ. I am an American woman; my life is filled with other American women. I cannot think of a single one who has "confused independence and strength with femininity." Perhaps some of us have not embraced all of those attributes with equal fervor but I don't think it's because we're confused about the differences between them.

 

There's nothing wrong with a woman who's self-assured and successful, but those attributes just don't cross over to attractiveness.

 

According you you, and you're certainly not alone. But, there are masses of men who DO find a woman who is self-assured and successful VERY attractive. I dare to say that there are millions of men who find women who are NOT self-assured and successful decidedly unattractive. My own man (a manly one, if I do say so myself) LOVES that I am self-assured and he revels in my successes.

 

Really, samspade, a lack of self assurance and being unsuccessful are really not universally desirable female attributes, even among American men, regardless of the popularity of such traits among lots of fellows here on LS.

 

 

As a result, the US has a lot of strong, independent, successful females who are on the fast track to bitterness, solitude, or (at best) single motherhood or marriage to a weaker man.

 

Well, I won't argue that the US has a lot of such women. I will, however, heartily call BS upon your claim that bitterness, solitude, single motherhood and choosing weak men are a result of women being independent and strong. In fact, I think that bitterness is an extreme weakness and a person of strength is not a bitter person.

 

In all fairness, I will add that the same (but reverse) situation exists with American men. Too many have adopted effeminate traits - and I'm not just talking about baby bjorns. American men refuse to stand up and be masculine - they have allowed themselves to be betas to the scores of shrill female alphas out there. In fact, they probably created the power vacuum first; women are filling it. Again, as a result we have a lot of pathetic men who wind up in emasculating relationships, often for life, because they didn't realize the power they had.

 

Thus are American men challenged to "man up" by women - often in ways that have nothing to do with being a man, but which serve the female agenda.

 

Men being milquetoasty is not the fault of strong women. There is now, as there always is, in every culture, a power shift. Some individuals won't thrive. If men don't like being "weak," they should gain strength within themselves. If they rely on dependence, weakness, and lack of success in women in order to be strong themselves ... I would certainly question their strength. Why should any segment of any culture be kept down in order for another to be strong and powerful? Wrong. Barfo.

 

Loving the strong and independent men and women of the U S & A!

[112233]

First of all, people who meet online from other nations aren't even subject to those requirements; they're purely for broker situations. If I meet someone through Match.com in another country, IMBRA does not generally apply, unless I pay a broker money to bring them over.

 

Ah, not true. It applies to ANY sort of dating service, including anything like match.com, as long as their "principal business" is connecting Americans with foreigners. There is absolutely no need that such dating site be engaged in the transport or facilitation of anything beyond communication.

 

Apparently, American men are dangerous for foreign women to know.

 

"It labels as an International Marriage Broker, any for-profit entity whose principal business is to charge fees for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services, or social referrals between U.S. and foreign national clients by providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating communication between U.S. and foreign national clients."

 

 

 

Second of all, American women generally speak the language, understand the culture, and have the rights of citizens, thus they need no additional recourse to ensure their safety in marriage beyond the standard laws.

 

So this is a fun multi-parter. Basically my contention is simply that foreign women are just as smart, capable, and savvy with men as any other gruop of women overall, and are not in any way handicapped. Further, they have all the rights anyone else has in their position in America. IMBRA provides no extra "recourse", it merely makes my meeting a woman online and later marrying her potentially illegal.

 

Finally, the phrase "safety in marriage" sounds vaguely like a pile of feminist horsepucky.

 

 

 

The law is not designed to make marrying someone you care for difficult---it's designed to make brokering marriages (trafficking women, essentially) unprofitable.

 

Already covered above, all wrong. It's specifically designed to make marrying a foreigner you met by any means not face to face difficult and is not even close to narrow enough to merely address the red herring human trafficking.

[sally4sara]

If you ask me, the biggest shortcoming (please excuse the word) of American women is that they have confused independence and strength with femininity. Those are masculine attributes. There's nothing wrong with a woman who's self-assured and successful, but those attributes just don't cross over to attractiveness. As a result, the US has a lot of strong, independent, successful females who are on the fast track to bitterness, solitude, or (at best) single motherhood or marriage to a weaker man.

 

And I believe that caring too much about what others will find attractive is a fast track to being useless while you're young and spent once you're old.

 

There is no male or female attribute. Strength comes in too many forms. You can swing a sledge all day long and still be lead by the nose. You can lead by the nose and still not be able to carry an oak bookshelf upstairs by yourself.

Independence doesn't seem to keep most, male or female, from wanting to partner.

So how can either attribute, no matter where you live, be the attribute of one gender?

 

I guess all the whooplah is a song and dance number. Some men like women to pretend to be weak and needy to make it easier to be what they attribute to being manly.

And some women are perfectly fine with pretending that it is so. It can make it quite useful in leading someone by the nose. And its all cool so long as no one lets it go to their head and think themselves superior enough to treat the other shabby.

It doesn't make it so, it just makes it APPEAR so. To those easily lead by the nose at least.

 

Now we have $.04

Edited December 17, 2010 by sally4sara