Unrepentent....

[frenchiefun]

This quote really hit home for me, jwi. Now that I'm single (instead of MM's OW, in which case I didn't consider myself single because I was in love with MM and thought we were going to be together full-time long-term), I do get afraid that if I fall in love with a guy, he'll cheat on me eventually. I guess I feel this way because of guilt and feeling like it's my karma, or just being cynical in general. I also worry about commitment and about finding a guy who will be as passionate about me as MM. But I've decided not to live my life in fear, I am going to hope for what I want, which is a great guy who I have that spark for like I did for MM but who can give me a full-time relationship. I would love to take care of the man I love when he's sick and have him take care of me when I'm sick. Not to sound all Moulin Rouge-ish or Disneyish but I really do believe in love, and exclusive monogamous love at that. And like you say the rewards are worth the risk -- I am going to remember that, thanks!

 

OP I think it's great that you're happy with your situation. I want more from a relationship but I know everyone is different and I'm glad you know what you want. I'm wondering if you're faithful to your MM or do you see other guys too? Also, do your family members and friends and co-workers know about you and MM or is a total secret? Also, you said you "see him when you want," but isn't it more like when he wants, because isn't it limited by how often/long he can get away? How long have you been with him and does his wife suspect? Do you ever feel bad about his wife?

 

These are just some questions I have because I find your situation really interesting. If they are too prying of course feel free not to answer them. I'm certainly not here to judge, I am really just curious! Take care.

 

Hi maravilla, I hope you do find your true love.

 

I don't mind answering your questions - i have another guy i see on a fairly regular basis, he is single and very available and I don't want a full on, exclusive monogamous relationship with him either...the married one knows about him, I think its only fair that if he has someone else then I do too! but the single guy doesn't know about the married one. I take the single guy to any social occasions with friends and family.

 

When I say I see the married one when I want to, he wants to come over more often than I want to see him - so I'm often telling him no, or that I'm busy doing something else. If I specially want to see him, say for my birthday or something, 9 times out of 10 he will be able to arrange it.

 

I don't know much about his wife - we don't discuss her as there is no reason to. I don't know if she suspects or not. I don't feel good about cheating with her husband, but obviously I don't feel bad enough to stop doing it. Our affair has been going on for a couple of years.

[frenchiefun]

I'm not a supporter of affairs, but I'd much rather an OW with this mindset than not. I'd rather see that the OW went into the affair free of agendas to get the man to leave his family and all the manipulation that requires, than see the one who believes in this fairytale non-existant man that's gonna leave for her one day.

 

An OW with the mindset of frenchie has no reason to degrade and demean the W, as she's not trying to replace her.

 

The funny thing is that the OW with frenchie's mindset is the one that a MM is more likely to leave for - he can't conquer her will as easily as he can the OW that freely gives it to him by losing herself in the A.

 

Welcome, frenchie. Your posts should provoke interesting responses (like Lizzie's).

 

Thanks for your welcome No. My relationship with MM is totally free of any agendas, and he knows that and can relax and enjoy our time together. We don't talk about his wife or his marriage at all - I don't want or need to know.

[maravilla]

Hi maravilla, I hope you do find your true love.

 

I don't mind answering your questions - i have another guy i see on a fairly regular basis, he is single and very available and I don't want a full on, exclusive monogamous relationship with him either...the married one knows about him, I think its only fair that if he has someone else then I do too! but the single guy doesn't know about the married one. I take the single guy to any social occasions with friends and family.

 

When I say I see the married one when I want to, he wants to come over more often than I want to see him - so I'm often telling him no, or that I'm busy doing something else. If I specially want to see him, say for my birthday or something, 9 times out of 10 he will be able to arrange it.

 

I don't know much about his wife - we don't discuss her as there is no reason to. I don't know if she suspects or not. I don't feel good about cheating with her husband, but obviously I don't feel bad enough to stop doing it. Our affair has been going on for a couple of years.

 

Thanks for answering my questions, I appreciate it.

 

Do you think you will ever get to a place where you want to get married and have a family (or just an exclusive monogamous relationship), or have you completely ruled that out?

 

For me personally, I had always thought for a long time that I didn't want to get married or have kids. Ironically when I met MM I had this deep passionate love that made me understand why people want to do it. (I'm still not sure about the kids but I would like to at least have that option-a family unit with mom, dad, and kid(s) available). Now my goal is to find a man that I have that spark for but also who is available to be exclusively faithful to me and have a family, even if that means just me and him, with me. I don't know if it's the fact that I'm getting older or the fact that I've experienced these feelings for MM, or both, but my views on marriage have totally changed. I really want to be able to say "I do" to the guy I love and I know that comes with a lot of risk and also commitment which I used to find really scary and still kind of do, but I think it will be worth it.

[greengoddess]

Of course there are MM who are self-centered jerks too, but these are unlikely to be in a long term extramarital relationship with deep emotional involvement.

 

I don't know what your experience was, jthorne. Perhaps you were unlucky enough that your MM belonged to the first category? That would explain your post.

 

 

OMG are you kidding me? These are the men that are the biggest self centered jerks. That they actually think they can keep two women hanging on and loving them for the long term. That they actually drag either the wife or the other woman on for YEARS putting their lives on hold while they live two lives. I get furious when I read about the self centered jerks that take a young twenty somethings best years of her life when they have no intention of leaving their marriage.

[jennie-jennie]

OMG are you kidding me? These are the men that are the biggest self centered jerks. That they actually think they can keep two women hanging on and loving them for the long term. That they actually drag either the wife or the other woman on for YEARS putting their lives on hold while they live two lives. I get furious when I read about the self centered jerks that take a young twenty somethings best years of her life when they have no intention of leaving their marriage.

 

Like I said, some of the MM are of course self-centered jerks, but then there are those who are self-sacrificing men, who only let themselves get what they need if they can do it without being found out. They really don't know how to care for themselves in a proper way. They adjust to the norms of society and peer pressure, and have a secret space where they care for themselves. This place eventually includes the OW, but from the beginning it is likely to be much less controversial things the MM keeps hidden from his wife and the world.

[Fieldsofgold]

Frenchie, I really like your OP. I'm going to give you my "Best Post of the Day"

award - and the day's still young!

 

I'm curious if you don't mind me asking, what is your age range? 20's, 30's, 50's? Have you ever been married or in a long-term committed relationship? Were you ever cheated on? Do you have children?

 

Just wondering what life-experience level you are coming from.

 

I'm divorced, crowding 60, former BS (many years ago), with grown offspring and really grand grandchildren.

 

I was really a bit surprised by your post. Actually quite delightfully surprised. At first glance, I thought you were going to be one of those OW who encourage other OW to stay in gutwrenchingly painful relationships in order to "give love a chance." In fact, I was SO sure you were going to be one of those, I almost didn't read your thread! LOL! I'm really glad to see you're not one of those.

 

Your OP is very refreshing. You tell it like it is. You tell it how it works. I'm sure your reasoning is not without it's flaws, (which others will point out), but I have no inclination to try to pick it to pieces. It's good enough! Overall, I think your affair POV is quite healthy and realistic, and I applauded you for setting forth your reality about it. It always breaks my heart to see the ladies who spend months and years of their lives, and endure sometimes incredible pain, waiting and hoping he'll leave and give them their heart's desire - a lifetime of true love. Which, as you pointed out, it would be a rare bird who would change his spots even if he DID leave.

 

Before all the OW maul me - please note that I said "most" - of course there are a few who REALLY ARE different.

 

Again, your OP and your reality is really refreshing, and encouraging to read.

 

I do agree with other posters who say they started out with your attitude, but fell in love and wanted more. That certainly is a very real risk, and I think it happens more often than not.

 

If it weren't for the fact that there's a betrayed wife, and perhaps vulnerable children somewhere, I'd totally applaud your stance. I persoanlly believe that it is morally and ethically wrong to participate in behavior that could likely lead to devastating pain for another, or if there are children, other innocent human beings. I also personally believe it is wrong to lie and deceive others, such as your single friend, or to participate in activities that encourage or require others lie and deceive people. I believe in G-d, I try to live according to the Ten Commandments, I believe the Bible when it says we are to "treat others as we want to be treated," and that "whatsoever we sow, that shall we also reap," and I guess my creed is, "Do no harm; help where possible." That's my value system. You have your value system. That is certainly your option, your choice, your right.

 

With the caveats I have mentioned, I still think your view of how to have a "successful" affair is very good, and a refreshing surprise. Thank you for posting it. I wish every woman contemplating an affair would read it,

and believe it, BEFORE they get involved!

[BB07]

I want what Frenchie has! LOL Well at this stage of my life that is what I would like in my future at some point in time because I don't see myself ever taking a chance or wanting the whole kit and kaboodle thing again. Call me jaded I guess, but yet.......I don't want that at the expense of someone else. So hopefully I will meet a SG at some point in time who wants what Frenchie has. No MM nor separated men for me.

[maravilla]

It's a relief to know that there are women out there like you.

 

Blog Watcher -

 

For one thing, this isn't quite the same as the relationship you say you want with an OW, because you say you want sex only, with absolutely no emotional attachment, and Frenchie admits that there is an emotional tie and romance between her and the MM. She's not just someone he comes and sleeps with and goes home, as if she's a prostitute without the pay. He does invest time, energy, affection and attention on her. So, Frenchie is not like the ideal OW you are looking for.

 

For another thing, Frenchie's relationship with her MM is based on honesty. She honestly only wants this part-time relationship and he is honest that that is all he can give her. He's not lying to her to string her along emotionally so that he can keep getting sex. So, her MM is not treating her the same way you are or were treating your OW - he is up front with her and perhaps that is why the relationship works so well. Please consider this.

 

Finally, I have never known a man to use this icon () but hey I guess there's a first time for everything, maybe...

 

Just sayin'. If you are real, which I've always doubted, good luck finding your perfect OW who is essentially an unpaid prostitute, but don't think that what Frenchie posted here is the same as that, because it's not.

[BB07]

Blog Watcher -

 

Just sayin'. If you are real, which I've always doubted, good luck finding your perfect OW who is essentially an unpaid prostitute, but don't think that what Frenchie posted here is the same as that, because it's not.

 

I'm with you........about blog watcher not been real......I have a suspicion that blog watcher is a BS having a little what they probably consider as revenge fun.

 

Not saying that there isn't men like him out there, there are but I don't think they would be here posting about it.......just saying.

[Lizzie60]

I'm new here, hi everyone. I'm sad to see so much angst and pain among the OW in this forum. I have been an OW for years, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't want him to leave his wife, I don't want him to live with me or god forbid marry me. I don't plan on ever getting married, I enjoy my independence too much, and that way I don't have to compromise or spend my life worrying about whether he is faithful. In my experience, too many men have too much trouble keeping it in their pants.

 

I see him when I want to see him. I enjoy the time we spend together, and then he goes home. I have peace and quiet and I don't have to wash his dirty underwear, cook for him, clean up after him, look after him when he's got the flu, or put up with him when I'm not in the mood... there's lots of positives in this situation, for me at least.

 

To the OW out there, you are seeing the best of him, enjoy it. If you want more, then give him the flick and find someone else. Take everything he tells you with a grain of salt, try not to get too emotionally involved, and get what you can from the relationship. You wouldn't want him full time anyway, a leopard doesn't change his spots and you would be on the receiving end of his infidelity in the years to come.

 

Don't let the relationship take over or ruin your life - run it on your terms, not his. Remember, he's got the most to lose.

 

I am/have been an OW for the last 8 years.. with many MMs.. not just one.. I also don,t want them full time.. I love my space and my independance.. but I have to disagree with the bold part.. in my case, my very first MM never (I'm 99% sure) cheated on me.. I left him after 18 years living together. I never lived with any other MM but I have to agree that MOST would cheat... as any married men do.

[maravilla]

I'm with you........about blog watcher not been real......I have a suspicion that blog watcher is a BS having a little what they probably consider as revenge fun.

 

Not saying that there isn't men like him out there, there are but I don't think they would be here posting about it.......just saying.

 

I see I'm not the only one who questions his authenticity! Maybe I just don't believe that there are men out there so blatantly disrespectful and naive to think that a) it's okay to lie to women to get sex, and brag about it and ask for help on how to do it, and b) he's going to find a woman out there to fall for it. So to me, yes, it seems like more of a point that a betrayed spouse or someone against affairs would want to make, because while I do think there are MMs like that out there, most already know how to operate and wouldn't want to give away their secrets, nor would they need to ask such basic questions like 'how do I lead her on so she keeps having sex with me?' Ummmm flowers, love, promises of being together... if you can't figure that out you don't deserve to be a philanderer LOL... but I really don't think most MM who say they love their OW are like that, I think most are just confused and cake-eating but also living in the moment and really feeling those feelings at the time they say it, instead of just saying it to get 'free' 'NSA' attached (= there is no such thing... you have to put something in to get something out of it in return!)

 

Argh. Sorry for my long-winded t/j but I just don't get it.

[maravilla]

I am/have been an OW for the last 8 years.. with many MMs.. not just one.. I also don,t want them full time.. I love my space and my independance.. but I have to disagree with the bold part.. in my case, my very first MM never (I'm 99% sure) cheated on me.. I left him after 18 years living together. I never lived with any other MM but I have to agree that MOST would cheat... as any married men do.

 

Aww, that's sweet about the long-term MM who never cheated on you, if you don't mind my asking and sorry again for the t/j, but, why did you leave him?

[Fieldsofgold]

I see I'm not the only one who questions his authenticity! Maybe I just don't believe that there are men out there so blatantly disrespectful and naive to think that a) it's okay to lie to women to get sex, and brag about it and ask for help on how to do it, and b) he's going to find a woman out there to fall for it. So to me, yes, it seems like more of a point that a betrayed spouse or someone against affairs would want to make, because while I do think there are MMs like that out there, most already know how to operate and wouldn't want to give away their secrets, nor would they need to ask such basic questions like 'how do I lead her on so she keeps having sex with me?' Ummmm flowers, love, promises of being together... if you can't figure that out you don't deserve to be a philanderer LOL... but I really don't think most MM who say they love their OW are like that, I think most are just confused and cake-eating but also living in the moment and really feeling those feelings at the time they say it, instead of just saying it to get 'free' 'NSA' attached (= there is no such thing... you have to put something in to get something out of it in return!)

 

Argh. Sorry for my long-winded t/j but I just don't get it.

 

I've always thought it was a betrayed husband, trying to make a point.

[maravilla]

I've always thought it was a betrayed husband, trying to make a point.

 

Yeah and his last post is Exhibit A (or Exhibit ZZZZZ, ha ha ha).

 

the point is well taken except for the fact that it's not very authentic to pretend to be someone else. And I doubt he would spend all this time on the internet asking questions about keeping his OW if he claims all she's worth is a false I love you during rush hour traffic. What a nice guy, or a not-so-cleverly-disguised BS. Either way, ewwww!

 

ETA -- I could totally see it being a betrayed husband who thinks, I can't believe my wife fell for MM's load of crap. Ha ha.

[maravilla]

You know a lot about me for having joined last month.

 

No offense but there's not much to know about you. Click on any one of your past posts and they're all obsessed with how to hoodwink a woman into free sex. Niiiiiiice.

[WTFBBQ]

I'm new here, hi everyone. I'm sad to see so much angst and pain among the OW in this forum. I have been an OW for years, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't want him to leave his wife, I don't want him to live with me or god forbid marry me. I don't plan on ever getting married, I enjoy my independence too much, and that way I don't have to compromise or spend my life worrying about whether he is faithful. In my experience, too many men have too much trouble keeping it in their pants.

 

I see him when I want to see him. I enjoy the time we spend together, and then he goes home. I have peace and quiet and I don't have to wash his dirty underwear, cook for him, clean up after him, look after him when he's got the flu, or put up with him when I'm not in the mood... there's lots of positives in this situation, for me at least.

 

To the OW out there, you are seeing the best of him, enjoy it. If you want more, then give him the flick and find someone else. Take everything he tells you with a grain of salt, try not to get too emotionally involved, and get what you can from the relationship. You wouldn't want him full time anyway, a leopard doesn't change his spots and you would be on the receiving end of his infidelity in the years to come.

 

Don't let the relationship take over or ruin your life - run it on your terms, not his. Remember, he's got the most to lose.

Describes an escort to the T. Sorry if that wasn't your intent. Edited November 15, 2010 by WTFBBQ

[Fieldsofgold]

 

ETA -- I could totally see it being a betrayed husband who thinks, I can't believe my wife fell for MM's load of crap. Ha ha.

 

That's exactly how I pegged it.

[BB07]

Or it could be a bitter former other woman/man.

[frenchiefun]

Like I said, some of the MM are of course self-centered jerks, but then there are those who are self-sacrificing men, who only let themselves get what they need if they can do it without being found out. They really don't know how to care for themselves in a proper way. They adjust to the norms of society and peer pressure, and have a secret space where they care for themselves. This place eventually includes the OW, but from the beginning it is likely to be much less controversial things the MM keeps hidden from his wife and the world.

 

I think that's very true jennie - often times MMs are in situations in which they are very unhappy - however due to, as you have stated, norms and pressures of society, they feel under a lot of pressure to stay in the situation and put the needs of their families before their own. Not all men who have affairs are evil predators, like so many on here seem to portray them. Some are just normal guys who need something else in their lives, something just for them, and they have no desire to hurt their wives or children with the knowledge.

 

MM calls me his "sanctuary"...and I'm more than happy to be that for him.

Edited November 16, 2010 by frenchiefun

[frenchiefun]

Frenchie, I really like your OP. I'm going to give you my "Best Post of the Day"

award - and the day's still young!

 

I'm curious if you don't mind me asking, what is your age range? 20's, 30's, 50's? Have you ever been married or in a long-term committed relationship? Were you ever cheated on? Do you have children?

 

Just wondering what life-experience level you are coming from.

 

I'm divorced, crowding 60, former BS (many years ago), with grown offspring and really grand grandchildren.

 

I was really a bit surprised by your post. Actually quite delightfully surprised. At first glance, I thought you were going to be one of those OW who encourage other OW to stay in gutwrenchingly painful relationships in order to "give love a chance." In fact, I was SO sure you were going to be one of those, I almost didn't read your thread! LOL! I'm really glad to see you're not one of those.

 

Your OP is very refreshing. You tell it like it is. You tell it how it works. I'm sure your reasoning is not without it's flaws, (which others will point out), but I have no inclination to try to pick it to pieces. It's good enough! Overall, I think your affair POV is quite healthy and realistic, and I applauded you for setting forth your reality about it. It always breaks my heart to see the ladies who spend months and years of their lives, and endure sometimes incredible pain, waiting and hoping he'll leave and give them their heart's desire - a lifetime of true love. Which, as you pointed out, it would be a rare bird who would change his spots even if he DID leave.

 

Before all the OW maul me - please note that I said "most" - of course there are a few who REALLY ARE different.

 

Again, your OP and your reality is really refreshing, and encouraging to read.

 

I do agree with other posters who say they started out with your attitude, but fell in love and wanted more. That certainly is a very real risk, and I think it happens more often than not.

 

If it weren't for the fact that there's a betrayed wife, and perhaps vulnerable children somewhere, I'd totally applaud your stance. I persoanlly believe that it is morally and ethically wrong to participate in behavior that could likely lead to devastating pain for another, or if there are children, other innocent human beings. I also personally believe it is wrong to lie and deceive others, such as your single friend, or to participate in activities that encourage or require others lie and deceive people. I believe in G-d, I try to live according to the Ten Commandments, I believe the Bible when it says we are to "treat others as we want to be treated," and that "whatsoever we sow, that shall we also reap," and I guess my creed is, "Do no harm; help where possible." That's my value system. You have your value system. That is certainly your option, your choice, your right.

 

With the caveats I have mentioned, I still think your view of how to have a "successful" affair is very good, and a refreshing surprise. Thank you for posting it. I wish every woman contemplating an affair would read it,

and believe it, BEFORE they get involved!

 

Thank you for your reply fieldsofgold, and I appreciate your open mind and non judgemental attitude.

 

I'm in my late 30's, a career woman and in my spare time I'm involved in abused animal rescue and fostering. I've never been married, and as I said in a previous post it's not on my agenda. I've had a couple of reasonably long term relationships, and neither of them ended due to infidelity.

 

There's a quote I read somewhere, along the lines of "both the blessing and the curse of women is that they love too often and too well" and that has really stuck in my mind.

 

I know it can difficult at times for women to accept that someone they love will never really be theirs - however, they need to reinforce that thought to themselves everyday and if they cannot accept it, then they need to have the strength to end it. There is so much pain in the posts from OW in this forum, and it is upsetting to read them. I feel for them, but I also think to myself, " you decided to let yourself love him and want more than he can give, now you are paying the price".

 

Women need to look after themselves, and take control of their own lives. If that means not starting an affair or ending one when it looks like getting out of control, then thats what women need to do.

 

I do love my MM, and he loves me, but he's not my whole reason for living and our affair doesn't impact on my life more than I want it to or feel happy with.

 

Ending up together has never been an outcome either of us want or need.

 

I admit that I am somewhat cynical about the whole "happy ever after" monogamous marriage thing....humans weren't designed to be monogamous, neither men nor women, and I think its really an unnatural expectation that people will continue to love and desire only that one person for the rest of their lives.

 

Marriage is really good for men and bad for women - single men die younger, single women live longer and are healthier. Marriage really only evolved so men could have some belief that the children who took their name and inherited their estate were actually theirs...and whilst I respect your religious beliefs fieldofgold, marriage has also been used as an instrument of religious control, particularly over women.

 

People are brainwashed from a young age that the only real acceptable relationship outcome for adults is that of a marriage between a man and a woman, and anything else is either evil, unacceptable or not good enough. (don't even get me started on gay marriage!) Not everyone fits into the little boxes that society has decreed we need to stuff ourselves into.

 

People make lots of different lifestyle choices, and whilst some people may not agree with them for whatever reason, they should be respected.

[frenchiefun]

Describes an escort to the T. Sorry if that wasn't your intent.

 

I find your post, and the posts from jthorne and desertislandcactus, insinuating that I am prostituting myself, quite offensive.

 

What I find more offensive however, is your small minds and judgemental attitudes.

 

Obviously you three would be much happier if I was waiting in vain for him to leave his wife and suffering because he wouldn't, because thats what I deserve as an OW, huh? it's obviously very threatening to you that an OW could be not too emotionally involved and actually happy with her situation...

[OWoman]

I'm new here, hi everyone. I'm sad to see so much angst and pain among the OW in this forum. I have been an OW for years, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't want him to leave his wife, I don't want him to live with me or god forbid marry me. I don't plan on ever getting married, I enjoy my independence too much, and that way I don't have to compromise or spend my life worrying about whether he is faithful. In my experience, too many men have too much trouble keeping it in their pants.

 

I see him when I want to see him. I enjoy the time we spend together, and then he goes home. I have peace and quiet and I don't have to wash his dirty underwear, cook for him, clean up after him, look after him when he's got the flu, or put up with him when I'm not in the mood... there's lots of positives in this situation, for me at least.

 

To the OW out there, you are seeing the best of him, enjoy it. If you want more, then give him the flick and find someone else. Take everything he tells you with a grain of salt, try not to get too emotionally involved, and get what you can from the relationship. You wouldn't want him full time anyway, a leopard doesn't change his spots and you would be on the receiving end of his infidelity in the years to come.

 

Don't let the relationship take over or ruin your life - run it on your terms, not his. Remember, he's got the most to lose.

 

Welcome, FF - it's nice to see another unrepentant OW here!

 

For decades I operated in the space you're in, and it worked perfectly for me. I had everything I wanted, and more, available as and when I wanted it. Like you, it wasn't the only R I had going on, though unlike your situation I made sure everyone knew where they stood so that they knew the boundaries.

 

But I would caution against your assumption that:

 

You wouldn't want him full time anyway, a leopard doesn't change his spots and you would be on the receiving end of his infidelity in the years to come.

 

It is possible for people to change. I know I have changed through my last A, and I know my H has changed through that A too. I've also seen my father, and several close friends, and colleagues, changing in that way. I don't believe humans are naturally monogamous, but some can, and do, make that choice successfully.

 

I also know that my H is far less likely to stray than I am - he has been sexually exclusive all his life, serially monogamous - even if he transferred his sexual exclusivity to me while he was still M to his xW; while this has been my only period of sustained exclusivity. It can work, if both parties want it to and are prepared to invest the necessary in that.

 

I'm not surprised that some posters have flung veiled insults at you - only surprised at the veiling. Those of us who are unrepentant are usually called far worse, and Tony has lost years of his life having to delete posts and threads where the haters have called us whores, sluts and whatever other nasty names they learned on the playground. Please don't take it to heart - it is a defense mechanism for those who have been badly hurt in their pasts and who seek to make themselves feel better at the expense of others. It says far more about them that they feel threatened by your choice of lifestyle, than it does about you.

 

Welcome!

[woinlove]

If it weren't for the fact that there's a betrayed wife, and perhaps vulnerable children somewhere, I'd totally applaud your stance. I persoanlly believe that it is morally and ethically wrong to participate in behavior that could likely lead to devastating pain for another, or if there are children, other innocent human beings. I also personally believe it is wrong to lie and deceive others, such as your single friend, or to participate in activities that encourage or require others lie and deceive people. I believe in G-d, I try to live according to the Ten Commandments, I believe the Bible when it says we are to "treat others as we want to be treated," and that "whatsoever we sow, that shall we also reap," and I guess my creed is, "Do no harm; help where possible." That's my value system. You have your value system. That is certainly your option, your choice, your right.

 

I'm not religious, but I share your value system on the golden rule. I see nothing wrong in having multiple partners and/or multiple loves, like frenchiefun has, but I don't support deceitful behavior. Open relationships can work for those who communicate well and are honest with themselves and others.

 

As to being sad about all the pain experienced by OW (and some OM) and wishing they could enjoy affairs for what they are, I had the same initial reaction as you, frenchiefun, since I also was a detached OW who could walk anytime if the affair stopped being fun. However, I have come to appreciate that these hurting women are capable of deep emotion and love (unlike me during my OW days) and it seems the pain, while horrible at the time, can give them the resolve to not get involved again with MM and to recognize that they are capable of loving commitment and would be happier with a man capable of the same.

 

Frenchiefun, I wonder why you aren't open and honest with your single man? Do you think he would disapprove or think less of you because the other man is married? Why bother being with someone that you have to deceive? Personally, I find it feels better to be open and honest and to encourage this in those I really care about - although it took me a long time to learn the latter.

[OWoman]

it's obviously very threatening to you that an OW could be not too emotionally involved and actually happy with her situation...

 

Bang on the money!

[jennie-jennie]

While I agree with most of what you say, frenchiefun, I see no wrong in an OW being with a MM even if she wants more. As long as she realizes she might never get more than what she has today. If what she has today is worth it to her, then that is fine in my opinion.

 

I think you need to consider what is your end goal. To enjoy the relationship you do have or to make it progress to some ultimate destination, ie divorce, remarriage... If you are only in it for the end goal, then I agree, it is better to get out.