My fiancee's family.. Need advice..

[jmargel]

My fiancee's parents divorced when she was 14. She had a bad childhood to say the least. On her mom's side, my fiancee was 16 when her mom's bf's son (who was like 24) and considered him a step-brother, raped her repeatedly. Her mom or dad still doesn't know about it. Her mom ended up marrying this other loser, who in the past year, while Brandy (my fiancee) lived at home, would walk around naked in front of her. He's also said somethings to her that made her very uncomfortable.

 

To add to this, we heard through an acquantice of his that one night he was drunk at a bar, started talking about how 'hot' his step-daughter is, and how he wants to have sex with her. I don't even talk to this guy during family functions, it takes everything in my power not to go after him.

 

He treats her mom like crap, and didn't even get her a card for her b-day. Brandy is very close to her mom, but is afraid to say anything to her. Brandy tells me she sees how much her mom loves him, and she's afraid she might rip apart the family. To me, she needs to tell her mom, but how can you bring up such a sensitive subject?

 

Now for her dad. Her dad treated her mom bad, would constantly leave her & her kids. He cheated on her, and after 15 years of marriage, they divorced. He ended up marrying another woman, who's been with for the past 8 years. Her dad is very nice to me, but very stubborn and voicetrious. Some of the things he's said about women, including his wife really made me uncomfortable.

 

Last night we were over there, Brandy was downstairs with her dad, and I was upstairs with her step-mom. Her step-mom is a huge animal lover, which so am I. We were talking about her animals when she mentioned 'I dont know if I'll have a home'. Im like, you mean your animals? Only because he wanted to get rid of some. She's like no, I meant myself. I was kinda stunned. The other night he threatened to leave her. She also has a 15 year old daughter, and a 20 year old retarded son. She then poured her heart out to me, which kinda stunned me. I know her, but didnt think she felt comfortable enough to tell me some of these things. She's telling me that they aren't a couple anymore, he doesn't hug her, kiss her, touch her or says I love you anymore. He comes home bitching about his day, and complaining why the house is so messed up (which it isn't, and she works full time as well). She's told me she's tried having heart to heart talks, and writing letters to him, but it doesnt make any difference. Those two bought horses 6 months ago, and she was hoping they would ride together. Ends up he never goes out there, she ends up taking care of them both & riding alone. I told her I wanted to ride with her. We all went for dinner on friday night, and I mentioned to Brandy then that her step-mom seems so depressed. She doesnt smile at all. Her step-mom tells me that she is so much more happier being at the stable, and even at work then at home anymore. She actually dreads coming home.

 

I'd really hate to see this family get torn apart, for everybody's sake. I highly doubt her dad would goto counciling, he's the 'tough-guy' type. He's opened a little bit to me, but I'm not sure if I should talk to him about this. I don't want him backlashing this at her if I did. I also found out last year that he went off to vermont for a day or two, over a woman he met over the internet. Rhoda (Brandy's step-mom) actually let him go, to see what is out there. I can't believe that happened.

 

So my first question is with her mom. How do we, or how does Brandy approach her mom about this? I know its going to break her mom's heart, but this guy is a true creep.

 

Second question is, how can I help her dad & step-mom through this? Her step-mom has brought me into this, so telling me to do 'nothing' is not really much of an option. I would hate to just stand there and see the family self destruct.

 

Please post some advice..

[Darkangelism]

wow dude ur fiance has a had a tough life, i think the best way is to be as direct as possible. It will be hard to not tear the family apart, there are people that are more qualified then me to respond though.

[NEONINK]

First of all, they usually know. These women just keep stupid because they are getting a roof over their heads. I'd bet you money, she knew. Just think about it, she stays with a creep. That tells you she's willing to do whatever it takes to stay there. Including looking the other way.

 

Next, go to Vegas with friends and get married. Don't have this trailerpark trash anywhere near you, your new family, your life or whatever. Her mom can come alone and visit you and her daughter, but your g/f needs to build a new home and new family.

 

A wise woman builds her home, a foolish one tears it down with her own hands. I think that's a Proverb.

[Errol]

As tough as it may be, it is not your place to say anything to Brandy's parents. It is not up to Brandy either. All that you can do is to be there for her family if they need you, but do not interfere. You sound like someone who wants to fix things (most guys are 'fixers' -- I am myself and have gotten in over my head a couple of times when I should have just stayed out of the water) but these are not your problems to fix. Be there for Brandy and bite your tongue. If it gets too much for her, you might suggest some counseling for her to help sort out where her responsibilties lie in regards to parents and step-parents.

 

As for the step father talking about Brandy and making remarks - you can tell him that you will not tolerate him talking about your bride-to-be that way and that if he continues you will take that as a threat and file charges against him. Don't get physical -- that will only backfire. She's not living with them now is she?

[moimeme]

I disagree. The stepmom needs help and has asked for it by involving him. My suggestion is that you (since she spoke to you) suggest to the stepmom that she see a counsellor. Often a single partner goes to see a marriage counsellor to deal with a troubled relationship. Tell her that you aren't equipped to provide her with good advice but that you'll support her in whatever she needs to do. Also urge her to speak to her daughter about it. That will open the door for Brandy to support her stepmom.

 

My inlaws were in a constant battle when I first knew them. It was the classic second-marriage using-the-kids scenario. My ex and I wrote them a letter telling them off for doing this and explaining how it hurt the whole family. They thanked us for it and their marriage improved noticeably afterwards.

 

You are adults and fully able to provide support to her. Do not abandon them; people who get in these sorts of situations are troubled people. It would be heartless to ignore them as another poster suggested.

[NEONINK]

It would be heartless to ignore them as another poster suggested.

 

I respectfully disagree. First of all, Brandy has already paid a price and will always carry a cross for the choices her mother made. Brandy could become her mother's mother, but anyone that has suffered through no choice of her own needs to now build a new life for herself. Brandy must repair and build a life of her own choosing now. One that will be as happy and peaceful as possible.

 

I would give Brandy's mother all of the kindness possible, including a name and number of a woman's shelter, but not become co-dependent for that woman. She must become accountable for her choices in life since other innocent people have borne a burden for those choices in the past. Tough love works.

 

Caretaking is doing what someone should do for themself.

Taking care is doing for someone what they cannot do for themself.

 

Some people are on a fastbound reckless train to nowhere, it is not our responsibility to join them on that train.

[jmargel]

I just can't sit & watch things unfold the way they are going to if I don't try to answer her call for help. Her step-mom (Rhoda) has been in counciling with her daughter, because of an abusive ex-husband. And now they are being abused verbally & emotionally by Brandy's dad. I don't know him well enough to say if he really knows how much pain he's inflicting on them, but I guess it's been like this for a few years. So I would probably assume that he does.

 

I already told Rhoda she has a place to stay if she needed. But she told me she would probably live with her mom, since they have more room. I'd really like to see them work things out, so I don't know if me talking to him, would be of any sort of benefit. It may be the wake up call that he needs.

 

As for her mom, I told Brandy if she were to tell her mom about all of this, and her mom would leave, she would have a place to stay as well. I just couldn't turn my back on them. I would be just as guilty (or feel like it) as the person causing the harm. Kinda like watching a crime happen, yet just standing there doing nothing. Brandy's step-dad is using her mom for financial reasons as well. She's working overtime every week, while he stays at home & does nothing. Except to run his dinky little business into the ground, while spending money on things. He even made her sign a contract that if they divorce, she owes him money for the work he did on the house they built. Even though she's paying the mortgage. Her mom has a big heart, and he's taking her for everything she's got. Brandy has alot going on right now, finishing up school, moving in with me, the wedding.. So maybe now isn't the time to open this can of worms, but unless these problems get addressed, they are only going to get worse.

[befuddled11]

JMargel,

 

Please don't take offense to what I'm about to write, I mean it sincerely and I'm not trying to annoy or p*ss you off..but.....

 

You sure do seem to have a LOT of drama going on in this relationship, and associated with this relationship. Most guys don't post as consistently and extensively as you do about problems in their relationship, when they're THIS CLOSE to tying the knot.

 

I'm not sure whether maybe you're a bit of the type who thrives on the chaos and drama, or if you're maybe just not with the right woman....but dude, it just shouldn't be this complicated, I don't think. Do you?

 

From problems with fiancee continuing contact with an ex that drove you bonkers, to her wanting to suddenly change the plans for your wedding (the whole buffet/have it at 7pm deal, despite the fact many of your relatives won't be able to make it), to this stuff with the future inlaws.

 

Do you really think it should be this complicated and intense, with a major dilemma and problem always around the corner? Don't you think relationships should be simpler? Just curious as to what you think.

[jmargel]

I wish it was simple, but even with my ex-fiancee it was actually worse. I'm the easy laid back type, and every woman I've met seems to be stressful to me. I don't think the June & Ward Cleaver relationship exists.

 

As for her family, that's something neither she or I can control. It's just something I walked into.

 

As for the wedding, she's made alot of changes. Its no longer on a Sunday or that late at night. We came to a comprimise on everything. And yes we still have some issues between us to work out. Its just basically she is the type to need space, and some of the things I do I guess bothered her which I didnt know. To me they were trival but I guess they mean alot to her. It's just something we find out about each other over time.

[carla]

Brandy sounds like she is a very lucky girl to have someone as loving and careing as you, I hope she realizes that.

 

Anyway as for the father and mother inlaw, I don't think it would be wise to speak with the father inlaw about these problems. From what you said it sounds as though he maybe offended and think of you as some smart ass punk kid, that isn't even married yet but can solve everyone elses marriage problems. As for his wife I would just be supportive of her and tell her that you are willing to listen if she needs to vent and ask her if she thinks their is anything that you can do that might help. Did you tell Brandy about your conversation? Maybe Brandy can have a heart to heart with her. If anyone should speak with the father Brandy would probably be the more approperate person to do it.

 

As for the mother inlaw, my advise is pretty much the same thing. Let Brandy do the talking. If she is close to her mother but sounds as though her still has some issues to deal with (telling about the rape and the step father) it maybe theraputic for both of them. Is the mother or Brandy seeing a councillor? If either one of them are this might be an better way of bringing things up in front of a councillor. He/she will be able to keep the peace and is better able to help both people involve to cope with the situation.

[moimeme]

You sure do seem to have a LOT of drama going on in this relationship, and associated with this relationship.

 

I don't think jmarquel's case is all that unusual. We don't often get to look into a window on someone's life to see everything that's going on, so we think everyone's fine and happy and things go smoothly. Jmarquel uses LS to sort out his issues - really, a commendable thing, I think. A lot of people would just try to bumble through but he's found a way to work out these issues through considering the advice of LSers.

 

Plenty of people have more 'drama' and/or more complex lives than this. That's the reality of living on this planet.

[jmargel]

Thank you carla & moi. Brandy has been through alot, and no one has ever taken the time to know her beautiful heart. The guys in her past always thought of her as a 'thing', just because she is very beautiful and she always fashionable & dresses up, it must mean she has a heart of stone. When I met her at first I noticed this, and saw how much of a wall she had around her heart. She expected this treatment and was actually thinking this was a norm.

 

I told Brandy about her dad, and she agrees that he doesnt treat her right. I think what i'm going to do is keep talking to Rhoda, and ask Brandy to talk with her dad. She's daddy's lilttle girl, so I would think she would get further than me. If I wouldv'e known there was problems I wouldve gotten them some tickets to a trip just for the two of them for Christmas.

 

As for her mom & her step-dad, that one is harder. I told Brandy before that I'll support her no matter what. Her brother was just told about it like a month ago. Both me & her brother told her we would confront the sleeze if she wanted us too. Brandy is just trying to keep the peace, but at least to me her mom deserves to know about what's been going on. There have been other rumors as well with this guy and another child in the past. I haven't brought it up since Brandy is under quite a bit of stress right now.

 

I appreciate the advice on here, and I would imagine every couple has their problems. Reading some of the posts on here I can see mine aren't nearly severe as some of the others. The stuff I had going on when I was with my ex was alot worse and the stress of the family problems, etc.. took its toll on our relationship. That's something I don't want to happen with Brandy. I just want to help her through all of this without being too pushy.

[NEONINK]

I dated someone similar to Brandy. The horror stories I heard left me feeling a little queezy. I immediately went to see my folks and told them how wonderful they were and what a good job they did. In fact, knowing about the horrible past of someone is a heavy burden to bear. You are to be commended for hanging in there.

 

I hope you re-read my posts, because everyone deserves a June and Ward life if they want one. Everyone has the right and ability to stop the merry-go-round of drama/trauma. No is a complete sentence.

 

Though no one can go back and make a new start,

anyone can start from now and make a brand new end. ~Carl Bard

 

 

Best wishes.

[moimeme]

because everyone deserves a June and Ward life if they want one

 

You can try and try to create a fantasy 1950 TV family. You will likely fail. Life is just not that clean and simple.

[NEONINK]

That's where so many go wrong in their thinking today. We are too accepting.

We hear of a murder or a rape or child abuse... And everyone shrugs their shoulders and says, "Oh well". The outrage is gone; acceptance is in. Some of those people jmargel was describing should be arrested and jailed for their behavior, not treated to Sunday dinner.

 

As I get older, I know utopia is unreasonable. But, if you want a nice life, dream it and so it shall become.

As I get older, I also have no use for liberalism in it truest form.

[mintjulep]

Originally posted by NEONINK

That's where so many go wrong in their thinking today. We are too accepting.

We hear of a murder or a rape or child abuse... And everyone shrugs their shoulders and says, "Oh well". The outrage is gone; acceptance is in. Some of those people jmargel was describing should be arrested and jailed for their behavior, not treated to Sunday dinner.

 

As I get older, I know utopia is unreasonable. But, if you want a nice life, dream it and so it shall become.

As I get older, I also have no use for liberalism in it truest form.

I find it hard to believe that everyone just shrugs their shoulders and says, "Oh well," about things like rape and child abuse. In fact, I think that there is less acceptance today because people are more likely to say something and publicize things like murder and rape and child abuse, whereas years ago these were things that were kept in the dark and not discussed. I think that people today are less accepting of the horrors of the world, only you can't change everyone's life in one sweep of a motion and everything comes one step at a time.

 

Utopia <i>is</i> unreasonable. Not because people are becoming blind to the horrors of the world, but because you can't fix all of the world's problems at once, especially with an exponentially growing world population, and when one problem is solved, there will always be another one lurking in the corner.

 

jmargel, you are incredibly honorable for not just accepting your fiancee's past, but for supporting her and her entire family and, on top of that, for trying to help. I agree that her mom probably won't listen to you - she's probably not looking for help, but you can suggest counselling to your fiancee's step-mom. Even if the marriage can't be saved, at least she can begin to look for happiness.

 

Good luck with everything. You sound like an amazing guy.

[NEONINK]

I find it hard to believe that everyone just shrugs their shoulders and says, "Oh well,"

 

Really? Nobody mentioned what Brandy had gone through in this thread. Nobody blew up and became outraged at the horrors she endured. The concern was for a mother and what she needed. Whether the mother knew it or not she had the responsbility to know if her daughter was being abused by men in the household.

 

I started dating this girl, and later found out the stepfather had raped her, his son had raped her, his brother had raped her, and the mother said she never knew anything? I don't know about that fish story. Never mind that the stepfather refused to allow her to close the bathroom door if she took a shower. And the one time she did at age 13, he busted in the door, grabbed her out of the shower by her hair, she had scars to prove these things.

 

She had stayed with her mother to protect the mother, at her own cost. I have no sympathy for parents that do ****ty jobs of protecting their own children in their own homes.

[mintjulep]

Brandy has obviously gone through a lot, but she seems to have found an incredible man who is willing to help her through a lot.

 

So no, no one feels that it is as important to "help" her and feel moral indignation for her, because she appears to have had incredible luck with jmargel.

 

I thought you were speaking in broader terms. Sorry you weren't more clear.

 

Furthermore, what's happened has happened. I gathered that since she was getting married, she was pulling herself out of this environment. No amount of outrage at the situation from an outsider is going to fix the situation if the person who is being abused doesn't find a way, or become lucky enough, to be removed from the situation.

[jmargel]

Thank you mint.. I appreciate your kind words.

 

I talked to Brandy some about it, and she agreed that both her dad & step-mom have problems. I can see her defending her dad though, just because she is close to him. Saying 'Well he doesnt like her working, so if she didn't work things would be better'. I told her she might want to have a heart to heart with him, but she said they are both unhappy.

 

I'm not sure what advice I can give her step-mom once I see her again. Brandy stopped the other day to talk to her, and all she said was that, they don't talk anymore. It's almost like both of them are so hurt by each other, neither can take the first step to try and patch things up.

 

I'll keep you all updated on what happens..

[amerikajin]

>>>I'd really hate to see this family get torn apart, for everybody's sake. I highly doubt her dad would goto counciling, he's the 'tough-guy' type. He's opened a little bit to me, but I'm not sure if I should talk to him about this. I don't want him backlashing this at her if I did.<<<

 

When you're dealing with family relationships, the weight of your input depends on your position within the family and what kind of credibility you have with them individually and collectively. Although the father has opened up to you, I doubt he would respect your input. I'm not saying you're not a respectable person; I'm saying that you're dealing with an ultra-chauvinistic patriarchal type who isn't about to take advice (no matter how well-intended) from junior. If you even want that kind of rapport with him, you're going to have to end up being his best bud, which might be rather difficult. Even then, I doubt he'll ever respect you as his equal, given the age difference. The only way I'd give advice to him is if he specifically asks for it. When he does, don't hesitate to be honest. If he doesn't like it, well that's his tough s***.

 

>>>So my first question is with her mom. How do we, or how does Brandy approach her mom about this? I know its going to break her mom's heart, but this guy is a true creep. <<<

 

Again, I don't know if you can. For some reason, Brandy's mom seems to feel a need to settle down with abusive men. It's somehow the only relationship in which she feels comfortable. I'm no shrink but it seems that in some cases, when people are used to abuse, they do find some sense of stability and familiarity, and they know what role to assume. For most of us the degree of self-deprecation and submissiveness is appalling, but for others, it's all they know. I don't think a simple talk's going to help her mom at all. This is what she's used to, and any talk of changing that is going to make her feel threatened. Somehow, she needs to get it inside her head that she can find fulfillment in relationships that don't involve abuse. Easier said than done, but counseling is probably the first step. That's not going to be easy to do with this vulture of a boyfriend hanging around. He'll sense that she's trying to improve her lot, which is something control freaks react angrily to. I'm not sure there's anything you can do with her mother except keep her boyfriend away from your fiancee.

 

Sorry to be so pessimistic.

[jmargel]

Oh I doubt her dad would take my advice, but Brandy has a special touch about her. When you talk she just listens. I'm the type to jump in and give advice. But he's really close to her, so it would be better for her to talk to him. Seems like Rhoda opened upto me alot more then to Brandy, maybe it's because I'm male. Next time I see her I'll talk to her some more about it.

 

As for her mom, you are right. Brandy told me she dated guys before that treated her really good, but she never settled down with any of them. This guy is going to run her into bankrupcy. Just last sunday he was saying he wants to buy a large projection TV (he has the whole downstairs to himself) pool table, stereo equipment, etc.. that SHE is paying for.

 

Along dealing with this, Brandy is under alot of stress right now. So much so that her period is late. She's exhausted as well. She works 40+ hrs a week, helping out the retarded and goes to school full time. These next two weeks are her finals. She's also looking for a job in my area, and moving in. Plus planning the wedding with me.

 

I went down there Tuesday night to help her at work and she is coming across as a little moody at times, but that's understandable. She has alot going on right now, so this whole thing with her mom could wait a few weeks I think.

[jmargel]

Spent the night with her in the ER. She's having massive pains in her back & abodmen. She still didnt have her period, its been 35 days. She's not pregnant, they did tests. Blood tests, pelvic tests, ultrasound tests. And they still can't figure out what's wrong. So she's going to see a GI specialist. I think whatever she has is being even brought on worse by the stress she has. So we are definetly holding off on her family issues until she gets better.

[moimeme]

Who, Brandy? Hope she's ok!

[amerikajin]

Could be a cyst. That used to happen to my ex rather often, particularly during times of stress.

[jmargel]

Yes, it's been like this for a few months but has gotten alot worse this past month. She still hastn't had her period (last one was Feb. 6th), but she's not pregnant. If a cyst would do that, is that dangerous? I think the ovaries alternate each month.

 

She's going to call another hospital on Monday and see if there is a specialist she can see. She is so worried about school, this is her finals week. She's afraid of not passing but she has all high grades. She's worried about not passing and then everything being put on hold. She is way too hard on herself.

 

I talked to her quite a bit last night telling her that she needs to start thinking more positivily. She told me today that her heart isn't into school or her work anymore, that its up here with me & the house. She even mentioned that she doesn't get enjoyment out of shopping anymore (she used to love that) because of her stress, and how she just wants to get out of there. Now I feel kinda worried in that I don't want to disappoint her if living here isn't as wonderful as she thought it was going to be.