He got me a ring...

[2sunny]

Your therapist is off the mark on this one telling you to stand by him and let this play out.

 

is that actually what the therapist said?- or is that what you actually heard? there is a big difference.

 

call and ask the therapist IF she/he is actually encouraging you to stay in this A with a MM... or have you been honest with the therapist about him being married?

[yeah]

is that actually what the therapist said?- or is that what you actually heard? there is a big difference.

 

call and ask the therapist IF she/he is actually encouraging you to stay in this A with a MM... or have you been honest with the therapist about him being married?

 

As sad and unethical as it may be, therapists need to get paid too. A lot of times I feel they'll go along with some pretty emotionally f'd up (non life-threatening obviously, i.e. :mad:don't confess to a plot to torch xMM's home..they may refer you elsewhere:eek:) lifestyle choices initially just to appease a new client and get them hooked to going. Good Advice is cheap and usually a no brainer, Hearing what we want to hear is what's costly, financially and emotionally. This is why some people go to therapists for much of their lives and their problems never change.

 

Look at it this way, if you're in a fragile state of depression, the therapist's initial goal is to sort of reel you in as a non judgemental confidante in the beginning. Although they're supposed to practice ethical principles, they need to get paid too, or else you may as well just air your dirty affair laundry to the 16 yr old chick at the fast food drive-thru and I can almost guarantee she'll give you pretty sound advice on the matter. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to see the glaring red flags and similarities in each and every one of these situations.

[Mimolicious]

Age is not an issue to ME, it's an issue to my family. I suppose I am just hoping in time that they will accept it. I am in my mid-twenties.

 

And I do realize that I was wrong for pursuing a married man. It's not like I threw myself at him, but I was definitely flirting with him even though I knew he was married. I didn't think anything would happen, honestly. But in any case, I know it wasn't right and I shouldn't have done it. I'm not trying to defend myself, I accept the fact that it was wrong and I really should have thought about the consequences of my actions. BUT it does not mean that I enjoy drama. Why would I, or anyone, want to be going through this?

 

And I'm not saying that I completely believe 100% what MM is saying and that I'm disregarding everyone's comments here. I wouldn't have posted here if I wasn't interested in hearing your comments/ input/ advice. I'm just waiting to see what happens. My therapist said there is no harm in waiting a couple months as long as if he doesn't come through in the timeframe HE gave me, I have the strength to walk away. So I am being skeptical or "cautiously optimistic" and I know that even if he does get a divorce, its going to be rough road for us.

 

I dont know but it seems like a WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE like to go through this.

 

*PAUSE*

 

You have the strength to walk away? So why haven't you? You honestly think is going to get better? Hone, I have a strong feeling that you'll be in your mid-thirties and dealing with the same fool. I may be wrong going but if going by the masses...

 

What's so "amazing" about this guy?

[Lauriebell82]

As sad and unethical as it may be, therapists need to get paid too. A lot of times I feel they'll go along with some pretty emotionally f'd up (non life-threatening obviously, i.e. :mad:don't confess to a plot to torch xMM's home..they may refer you elsewhere:eek:) lifestyle choices initially just to appease a new client and get them hooked to going. Good Advice is cheap and usually a no brainer, Hearing what we want to hear is what's costly, financially and emotionally. This is why some people go to therapists for much of their lives and their problems never change.

 

Look at it this way, if you're in a fragile state of depression, the therapist's initial goal is to sort of reel you in as a non judgemental confidante in the beginning. Although they're supposed to practice ethical principles, they need to get paid too, or else you may as well just air your dirty affair laundry to the 16 yr old chick at the fast food drive-thru and I can almost guarantee she'll give you pretty sound advice on the matter. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to see the glaring red flags and similarities in each and every one of these situations.

 

 

What???? I completely disagree with this. Therapists do NOT do the work to make money. We actually get paid virtually nothing! Depending on what type of therapist she sees (private practice or agency) most therapists don't work get paid based on clients staying in treatment. Even when clients DO chose to leave treatment, there are 5 more just like them. There is never a lack of people needing therapy.

 

I think the OP is so addicted to this relationship that she heard what she wanted to hear from the therapist. I think the therapist was trying to be supportive (that is our job afterall) and build up her strength. The convo probably went something like this:

 

Therapist: This doesn't seem like a healthy relationship, you do have the strength to leave it though when you are ready to do so.

 

OP heard: You should stay in the relationship and wait and see what happens.

 

In dealing with individuals who have addictions it is important to remember that we cannot FORCE them to do something they aren't ready to do. I work with patients everyday who are not ready to get clean, who are just in rehab because of external pressure (legal, family, ect). There is nothing we can say to convince them to stop doing drugs, we can only educate them on the disease and point out how their thinking patterns are addictive.

 

Even with this thread, there really isn't anything we can say to convince her that what she is doing is wrong and that she needs to leave. She will have to realize that on her own time. What we can do is point out what is wrong with the relationship, and hope that she thinks about it. And when MM starts feeding her lines, she will remember what we have said and question his motives.

 

First rule of advice/therapy/support: You can't save everyone.

[Mimolicious]

On another note, change therapist.... a therapist looks out for your best interest and helps you dig deep into where your issues may be coming from. So you are getting therapy to find ways to stay lingering around this guy? Or are you in therapy to help you be a better person and not get yourself into this sort of drama? Which one is it? (It can't be both though).

[Lauriebell82]

On another note, change therapist.... a therapist looks out for your best interest and helps you dig deep into where your issues may be coming from. So you are getting therapy to find ways to stay lingering around this guy? Or are you in therapy to help you be a better person and not get yourself into this sort of drama? Which one is it? (It can't be both though).

 

I would like to know this as well. A few pages back I asked if she was in therapy and she said she was getting it and has been speaking to her therapist about her A. Why exactly did you enter therapy OP? Was it because of the A, or something else?

 

If I were her therapist, I would touch on her pattern of getting herself into problematic, drama filled relationships. That is usually a sign of low self-worth and low self-esteem.

[sally4sara]

Sorry, I find anything less than an engagement ring and the prerequisite D papers insulting.

 

Ok, so I just did the Google Shopping search for Promise Rings. Looks like the average price is around $59-$99. It'd take a lot more than that to buy my love/patience/NC/whatever.

 

Now, if it was this ring, I might consider it IF he had completely moved out and seen a lawyer, but... nah.

 

What is money to a person with enough to buy that? Not a thing not a thing not a damn thing but an investment in a warm sex doll at the ready. And it can always go back in his pocket while you're in the shower.

[jthorne]

No, seriously, let me get this straight:

 

The OP started the affair. I believe she said he would not have approached her had she not flirted with him.

 

The OP encouraged him to leave his marriage (her mere and constant presence is encouragement enough).

 

She can't handle KIDS. This guy has KIDS, a son who lives with him full time. What the heck is she expecting will happen?!!? If she can't manage her own DOG how can she handle A CHILD. She doesn't even want kids right now... she doesn't want kids and yet this guy has KIDS!!! She will automatically have kids if he goes through his divorce and makes good on his "promise" to her... sc58, are you thinking this through?

 

I hope you rethink what is going on here and what you want from this man, sc58.

That's why I said she needs to stop lying to herself.

 

I would like to know this as well. A few pages back I asked if she was in therapy and she said she was getting it and has been speaking to her therapist about her A. Why exactly did you enter therapy OP? Was it because of the A, or something else?

 

If I were her therapist, I would touch on her pattern of getting herself into problematic, drama filled relationships. That is usually a sign of low self-worth and low self-esteem.

Yep, see above. She may even be lying to herself about why she is in therapy.

 

What is money to a person with enough to buy that? Not a thing not a thing not a damn thing but an investment in a warm sex doll at the ready. And it can always go back in his pocket while you're in the shower.

Uh, that was a JOKE. Did you not see the "nah"? My point was that for me, love can't be bought.

[sally4sara]

Uh, that was a JOKE. Did you not see the "nah"? My point was that for me, love can't be bought.

 

And jokes bring more jokes. Can't we share the title of LS comedian?

[Mimolicious]

Unfortunately, regardless of the face-value of this ring, it means very little till the dotted line is signed. That is REALITY not a blue little box.

 

As we can all see... nothing is life is guaranteed! His W got a 2 rings. What is it doing for her?

[sc58]

I'm not so addicted to this man that I can't walk away if he doesn't come through on his promises by the timeline that he gave me. I have already made the decision to wait and see what happens, which is why it seems that I'm not listening to anyone's advice/opinions. It's not that I'm not listening, because I am. If by the end of January, he has not filed for divorce, I know I will be able to walk away. It's not that I CAN'T right now, it's that I have decided not to. He asked me to give him a chance to prove that he means what he says, and I have decided to give him ONE chance.

 

And what my therapist said is: "There is no harm in waiting a couple months." That part is word for word and then she said something about as long as you're sure you can walk away if he hasn't followed through. She does not support the fact that I am in the A. And the reason I started therapy was for an entirely different reason. There were things that happened to me when I was young that I needed to talk about as I was still getting nightmares about it.

 

We have talked about the step-parent thing. While I love children and am good with them, I just doubt my abilities to be a PARENT. I'm great with kids, I babysit a lot, tutor, and teach horseback riding lessons on the weekends. I just honestly don't know how I would feel about having my own child....He, for whatever reason, is not worried and thinks I'll be great.

[Mimolicious]

I'm not so addicted to this man that I can't walk away if he doesn't come through on his promises by the timeline that he gave me. I have already made the decision to wait and see what happens, which is why it seems that I'm not listening to anyone's advice/opinions. It's not that I'm not listening, because I am. If by the end of January, he has not filed for divorce, I know I will be able to walk away. It's not that I CAN'T right now, it's that I have decided not to. He asked me to give him a chance to prove that he means what he says, and I have decided to give him ONE chance.

 

.

 

 

Ok, this is fair. I hope you stick to your guns when January comes. You know, V-Day is in February and we wouldn't want him not delivering his promise for such a "Romantic Holiday".

[maravilla]

We have talked about the step-parent thing. While I love children and am good with them, I just doubt my abilities to be a PARENT. I'm great with kids, I babysit a lot, tutor, and teach horseback riding lessons on the weekends. I just honestly don't know how I would feel about having my own child....He, for whatever reason, is not worried and thinks I'll be great.

 

sc,

 

What Lisalee and others mean is that if you end up married to your MM (isn't this what you say you want?) you will be a parent. Not a babysitter, horseback riding teacher, or tutor. A step-parent is still a parent.

 

It seems to me that you want the illusion of this man more than you want this man. I cannot imagine the two of you working out long term (can you?) and to me it sounds like a challenge you have, to make him get divorced and be with you, and then you won't even want him, or you will be miserable with him. It seems that you like that he's into you, more than you're into him - you're just into the idea of getting him to leave his wife for you.

 

These are just my honest observations and because I am really worried about you. I'm glad you're in counseling and I hope you can see your way out of this. Good luck.

[sc58]

sc,

 

What Lisalee and others mean is that if you end up married to your MM (isn't this what you say you want?) you will be a parent. Not a babysitter, horseback riding teacher, or tutor. A step-parent is still a parent.

 

It seems to me that you want the illusion of this man more than you want this man. I cannot imagine the two of you working out long term (can you?) and to me it sounds like a challenge you have, to make him get divorced and be with you, and then you won't even want him, or you will be miserable with him. It seems that you like that he's into you, more than you're into him - you're just into the idea of getting him to leave his wife for you.

 

These are just my honest observations and because I am really worried about you. I'm glad you're in counseling and I hope you can see your way out of this. Good luck.

 

I realize that I will be a parent if we do end up together. That is why I was expressing my concerns about the situation. That's why I said that although I am good with kids, I don't know if I'm ready to be a PARENT. I feel that I am too young to be a good parent, and while I've told him this, he doesn't seem to think it will matter. His son is already almost 18, so I doubt I'd be much of a "mother" figure to him as he is closer to my age than his dad.

 

And I honestly do not like the "illusion" of getting him. If he really wanted to stay with his W, then I think that's for the best. They have a family together and his son will have to deal with yet another step-mom. I have often told him that he should stay with his W for their family. It's really not a "challenge" for me. I honestly would prefer him to stay with his W if he feels that they can make it work. I don't think any of the OW here feels good about breaking up a family and that is their motive, just so they can dump the guy at the end.

[4321sn]

My therapist posed the question...Once you get him what will you do with him?meaning that I need to think hard about what my life will be like with him.

She reminds me that I will have 2 teenaged children to deal with...who will probably not be very welcoming to me at least at first.

 

She reminded me that my life was very comfortable financially with my XH. MMs finances are a mess. I will have to work very hard to support myself financially because he has debt and other significant money issues. His kids are in HS...soon he will have to pay for college...

 

The reality of what life will be like needs to be faced. I am fully aware of the significant challenges we will face. Does this make me care about him less...no but these are things that need to be factored in...

 

I hope you are doing okay today...

[Lauriebell82]

 

And I honestly do not like the "illusion" of getting him. If he really wanted to stay with his W, then I think that's for the best. They have a family together and his son will have to deal with yet another step-mom. I have often told him that he should stay with his W for their family. It's really not a "challenge" for me. I honestly would prefer him to stay with his W if he feels that they can make it work. I don't think any of the OW here feels good about breaking up a family and that is their motive, just so they can dump the guy at the end.

 

Now, I am even more confused. You PREFER that he continue to hurt his wife and children by cheating with you? You are okay with being the OW? You don't want to break up his family but you want him to be your weekend fling? Or you would be okay with him dumping you to stay with his W? I don't get it.

 

Wow, now I am even more concerned...

[sc58]

Now, I am even more confused. You PREFER that he continue to hurt his wife and children by cheating with you? You are okay with being the OW? You don't want to break up his family but you want him to be your weekend fling? Or you would be okay with him dumping you to stay with his W? I don't get it.

 

Wow, now I am even more concerned...

 

Ok, maybe I'm not writing clearly, but that's NOT what I meant. I am not ok with being the OW and I am not ok with him leaving his W solely to be with me. I don't want to be the REASON for their family breaking up. If he dumps me to stay with his W, yes I would be ok with that. I'm not saying it won't hurt, but I would understand. I do not prefer that he continue to cheat with me.

 

I'm not sure where you got that from, but I was just trying to say that this is not about a "challenge" or getting him to leave his wife for me just for kicks.

[whichwayisup]

I am not ok with being the OW and I am not ok with him leaving his W solely to be with me. I don't want to be the REASON for their family breaking up.

 

Time for some acceptance. This IS reality. He IS leaving and divorcing his wife wife, breaking up his family unit TO be with you. If you two hadn't had that affair, he never would be even having thoughts of leaving his wife. Things were fine. He let himself fall for you and now (time will tell with his actions) he says he wants a D so he can start a new life with you, have kids, the whole deal.

 

This is why things NEED to slow down. He can't just end his marriage, break up his family unit and start a new life with you in January. I think each of you have your "idea" of how things *could* be, making promises, plans for the future, but NEITHER of you know what is going to happen. You don't even know what life will be like once he D's, how you two will be as a couple, how your lives will mesh together. Since your family has issues with the age thing, throw in the fact he is leaving his family for you, has kids, you two DO have alot going against you. sorry to say this, but I doubt he'll be moving out and divorcing by January.

[whichwayisup]

I do not prefer that he continue to cheat with me.

 

Then stop the affair, the physical part of it. If you choose to be there for him during this process, fine..Just END the sexual side of it until he divorces and do it the right way. Don't leave it up to him, sneaking off to see you on weekends, having intimacy all the meanwhile he goes back home during the week. Something just doesn't feel right about that, either..

[Lauriebell82]

Ok, maybe I'm not writing clearly, but that's NOT what I meant. I am not ok with being the OW and I am not ok with him leaving his W solely to be with me. I don't want to be the REASON for their family breaking up. If he dumps me to stay with his W, yes I would be ok with that. I'm not saying it won't hurt, but I would understand. I do not prefer that he continue to cheat with me.

 

I'm not sure where you got that from, but I was just trying to say that this is not about a "challenge" or getting him to leave his wife for me just for kicks.

 

I think you are writing clear, your brain is just clouded by MM's promises. I agree you need to get some acceptence and accountability. You admitted that you seduced a MM, and you knew something was going to happen because earlier you said there was some "connection" between the two of you. You are going back and forth saying you feel really guilty and did something wrong, THEN contradict yourself by acting noble about the A.

 

MM has manipulated you SO MUCH that you are confused beyond belief. If you don't want to be the OW, don't want to him to cheat on his W, and don't want to break up his marriage, then break up with him! But you don't want to do that so you will need to accept that all those things are going to happen as long as you are the OW...

[2sunny]

Then stop the affair, the physical part of it. If you choose to be there for him during this process, fine..Just END the sexual side of it until he divorces and do it the right way. Don't leave it up to him, sneaking off to see you on weekends, having intimacy all the meanwhile he goes back home during the week. Something just doesn't feel right about that, either..

 

it doesn't feel right because this is a true cake eater!

[maravilla]

And I honestly do not like the "illusion" of getting him. If he really wanted to stay with his W, then I think that's for the best. They have a family together and his son will have to deal with yet another step-mom. I have often told him that he should stay with his W for their family. It's really not a "challenge" for me. I honestly would prefer him to stay with his W if he feels that they can make it work. I don't think any of the OW here feels good about breaking up a family and that is their motive, just so they can dump the guy at the end.

 

Please just stop and re-read what you wrote, which I've bolded. You need to be true to yourself and your values. If you honestly really think he should stay with his wife for their family, then you need to get out of the picture. You are saying one thing and doing another.

 

I was very recently an OW and I am just trying to help you because you sound incredibly conflicted and confused. I was like that too. I am just trying to point out how you are conflicting your words, your actions and your values. Please just sit down and figure out what you really believe, what you really want, and then go in that direction. If you really believe he should stay with his wife, then get out of the way. He cannot work on his marriage while you are with him wanting him to get divorced in January!

[sc58]

Please just stop and re-read what you wrote, which I've bolded. You need to be true to yourself and your values. If you honestly really think he should stay with his wife for their family, then you need to get out of the picture. You are saying one thing and doing another.

 

In the next sentence I wrote "if he feels they can make it work." If he wanted to stay with her and believed they could be happy together, then I think that's the better outcome. But that's not the case. He says his marriage is over and has been for a long time. And that he is not leaving for me, but because he doesn't think he can make things work with his W. I understand and accept that no matter what he says, I am still part of the reason. I'm not denying that. I just didn't want to be the whole reason.

 

And I'm also not trying to sound "noble" or anything. I know what I did was wrong, I admit it. I shouldn't have flirted with him knowing he was married, despite the connection I felt. There was nothing "noble" about what I did and I feel really guilty about it.

[maravilla]

In the next sentence I wrote "if he feels they can make it work." If he wanted to stay with her and believed they could be happy together, then I think that's the better outcome. But that's not the case. He says his marriage is over and has been for a long time. And that he is not leaving for me, but because he doesn't think he can make things work with his W. I understand and accept that no matter what he says, I am still part of the reason. I'm not denying that. I just didn't want to be the whole reason.

 

And I'm also not trying to sound "noble" or anything. I know what I did was wrong, I admit it. I shouldn't have flirted with him knowing he was married, despite the connection I felt. There was nothing "noble" about what I did and I feel really guilty about it.

 

Mine said that all of that too... he was definitely getting a divorce, there was no hope for his marriage- plus mine moved out of his house... and as soon as I went NC because his actions weren't matching his words, guess where he went, right back to wifey.

 

They can say a lot of things hon but if he was really sure he was getting a divorce, he'd be getting divorced by now. I mean, filing, moving out, the whole works.

 

I'm not trying to be a debbie downer but I think you are going to end up really hurt, and it's just such a waste because I don't think you'd even want to be with him long-term anyway. So basically you are hurting yourself for something you don't even really want. Yeah I know you say you want him but that is not what I read. What is so great about this guy that you are doing this to yourself??

[Lauriebell82]

Yeah I know you say you want him but that is not what I read. What is so great about this guy that you are doing this to yourself??

 

Well, she has said I think that he makes her feel special and there is a connection with him. I just keep going back to the fact that he bought her a promise ring while his wife is still wearing the WEDDING ring that MM bought for her! I would NEVER want to even be around a guy who would fathom doing something like that!!!

 

I also decided that I deserve better then someone who would do something liek that. I think the OP is still working on that.