He got me a ring...

[jthorne]

THIS (especially the bolded):

I am in counseling right now and am actually discussing this with my counselor. I honestly do not think I am attracted to men with baggage, I really don't like "excitement" or "drama." I'm the kind of girl that likes to stay home and watch movies while most people my age go out to clubs and party, etc. I HATE drama. I avoid going out to avoid drama.

 

I had just gotten out of a 5-year relationship when I met MM, and I think was just having fun flirting with a guy I knew I couldn't have and really didnt think about the consequences..I assumed it wouldn't lead anywhere and when something did happen, we both had an understanding that it would end eventually. I never once asked him to leave his W. He was the one that brought it up, and assured me it had nothing to do with me.

 

When he first brought up getting a divorce, I tried to convince him to stay in his marriage. I felt really guilty. I kept thinking that if it wasn't for me, he wouldn't be thinking of getting a divorce and breaking up his family. As much as he tells me its not my fault, that he was unhappy for a long time, etc. etc., I am part of the reason. I don't know how I'll feel about that in the future, and I have talked to him about it. As many people have mentioned here, if he did it WITH me, he could do it TO me....

does not jive with this:

 

I honestly don't think he's a player or that kind of guy. And the reason I say this is because I was the one that "seduced" him, I guess you could say, not the other way around. He did not try anything with me. I think I thought it was just a game (I really don't know what I was thinking at the time) and he rejected me over and over again, telling me he was married, etc.. I honestly thought he would never cave, which is why I continued to tease him - I'm awful, I know. And then one day he did. But it was MONTHS later and took me complete surprise.

 

I think that's why I can't seem to think of him as a bad guy or the "player" type. I know for a fact if I hadn't initiated anything, nothing would have happened. I often feel so guilty that I was the one that got us into this mess. I had no idea I would fall for him or that he would fall for me. And obviously I was not thinking about the consequences and hurting his wife. As I look back, I seriously have no idea what the hell was going through my mind at the time. I mean, I thought he was cute and we had this really strong connection from the first time we met, but I knew from our first conversation he was married and it was like I didn't care. Something must be wrong with me...

 

Anyway, I guess that's why I seem to defend him all the time. Because I KNOW it was my doing that got us to this place and he really isn't that kind of guy. I doubt he would want to string me along for another few months just so we can continue to fight. What would be the point in that?

In fact, it directly contradicts it. YOU pursued someone knowing full well that they were married. YOU invited the drama.

 

The underlined is getting much closer to the truth.

STOP LYING TO YOURSELF.

[2sunny]

the W deserves to really know what is happening. call her and tell her what his plan is... since he is planning to divorce - this shouldn't be any problem at all for your MM.

 

she has a right to know what has been planned for her life = behind her back. and you have a duty to be honest. tell her what you expect... and tell her that you intended to walk away - but he bought you off with jewelry and promises in order to hang around until she exits the marriage. when she hears your truth - you may know what he won't tell you. so will his W.

[Lauriebell82]

There is another thread that an OW posted in this section that I think you should read. It's by 4311sn. She is very close to leaving her MM, is beginnning to see him for the slime bucket he really is. He feeds her the same B.S. that your MM feeds you. Since you don't believe us, maybe you will believe her...

[spice4life]

Sc58, I've read through your threads and really only have one comment. I understood your position until I read that your family will hate him and that you may want to have a family of your own one day. Please correct me if it wasn't you who posted that and disregard this if that is thae case. Back to my point - this is something you really need to think about before you go any further with this man. What happens if you decide you don't want him once he is free? Or, what if he can't give you (or won't give you) a family of your own if that's what you want? I think you need to step back and think about whether or not this is about you winning him or is it true love? When you think about life with him can you see yourself not having a family of your own because you love him and WANT him no matter what? Is your love for him that strong that you are willing to give up a desire to have a family? If it is then, then step back and monitor his actions to see if they match his words. If your love for him isn't that strong then you may want to consider letting him go and walking away.

 

Okay...that was more than one comment but hopefully you get my point.

[jthorne]

Sc58, I've read through your threads and really only have one comment. I understood your position until I read that your family will hate him and that you may want to have a family of your own one day. Please correct me if it wasn't you who posted that and disregard this if that is thae case. Back to my point - this is something you really need to think about before you go any further with this man. What happens if you decide you don't want him once he is free? Or, what if he can't give you (or won't give you) a family of your own if that's what you want? I think you need to step back and think about whether or not this is about you winning him or is it true love? When you think about life with him can you see yourself not having a family of your own because you love him and WANT him no matter what? Is your love for him that strong that you are willing to give up a desire to have a family? If it is then, then step back and monitor his actions to see if they match his words. If your love for him isn't that strong then you may want to consider letting him go and walking away.

 

Okay...that was more than one comment but hopefully you get my point.

Interesting point. Makes me wonder if she's unsure if she wants HIM, but she doesn't want him married.

 

She needs to stop lying to herself first before she can figure out what she REALLY wants. I really don't think it's this guy. Anyone that tosses the OW a pretty trinket or piece of jewelry while still married isn't much of a prize, IMO.

[jj33]

I understand why you want to believe him. You only want to be with him if he is single, he is telling you he wants to be single and that when he is he wants to be with you.

 

That sounds great superficially if you dont look at it more closely.

 

Where are you now that you werent a day ago other than in a position where he says lets go NC it will be easier for you and heres a ring. Price isnt really the point if all he could afford was a $59 engagement ring it would stil be an engagement ring but its not.

 

There was someone else on the boards who was in a VERY similar situation. She got "engaged" well before he was divorced. And guess what. He did get divorced but never really acted like he was divorced or emotoinally separated from his W.

 

If he were really ready to end his M, he would have. He wouldnt be waiting for her to do it (like that other guy).

 

He wouldnt be saying this is going to be hard on you so lets be apart (translation this is going to be hard if Im in touch with you because Im not ready to take decisive action and I dont want you on my back about it).

 

Ending a marriage is a big deal. And he is going to need time to process that. Some people are over the marriage by the time they decide to leave, but many arent. If he were over the marriage he wouldnt be acting the way he is, he would be discussing it with her and filing seeing a lawyer whatever one does in your state.

 

Giving someone a promise ring while you are still living with your spouse smacks of keeping your options open.

 

Dont be that back up girl. I hope Im wrong and he isnt thinking of you as a back up but its hard to see it any other way when he isnt doing anything affirmative to leave.

 

Think of it this way, he gave you the financial equivalent of a nice dinner and said see ya when I get things sorted in the meantime Ill miss ya. That leaves you waiting and hoping and speculating and daydreaming and praying that the days weeks or months until he comes to you with results fly by. Not a good way to go.

 

You could be waiting for a long long time and there is no way of knowing what hte result will be. You dont want to be here in a year saying its complicated ....

[Carrot2000]

So you spent months actively pursuing a man you knew was married and you honestly expect a good outcome from this situation? What goes around comes around, and I'm not sure you're up to dealing with the fallout from this mess.

[whichwayisup]

Not because of his marital status (which I would NOT tell her about) but because he's 18 years older with two kids.

 

So you believe your sister will not approve of the age difference? Sorry I can't remember how old you are.. Anyway if age is an issue now, you don't feel comfortable and are worried about family reaction, then IF he does divorce, how are you going to work this out? Explain now you are with a newly divorced man with 2 kids?

[Fieldsofgold]

Interesting point. Makes me wonder if she's unsure if she wants HIM, but she doesn't want him married.

 

She needs to stop lying to herself first before she can figure out what she REALLY wants. I really don't think it's this guy. Anyone that tosses the OW a pretty trinket or piece of jewelry while still married isn't much of a prize, IMO.

 

Excellent, excellent insight!

[sc58]

So you believe your sister will not approve of the age difference? Sorry I can't remember how old you are.. Anyway if age is an issue now, you don't feel comfortable and are worried about family reaction, then IF he does divorce, how are you going to work this out? Explain now you are with a newly divorced man with 2 kids?

 

Age is not an issue to ME, it's an issue to my family. I suppose I am just hoping in time that they will accept it. I am in my mid-twenties.

 

And I do realize that I was wrong for pursuing a married man. It's not like I threw myself at him, but I was definitely flirting with him even though I knew he was married. I didn't think anything would happen, honestly. But in any case, I know it wasn't right and I shouldn't have done it. I'm not trying to defend myself, I accept the fact that it was wrong and I really should have thought about the consequences of my actions. BUT it does not mean that I enjoy drama. Why would I, or anyone, want to be going through this?

 

And I'm not saying that I completely believe 100% what MM is saying and that I'm disregarding everyone's comments here. I wouldn't have posted here if I wasn't interested in hearing your comments/ input/ advice. I'm just waiting to see what happens. My therapist said there is no harm in waiting a couple months as long as if he doesn't come through in the timeframe HE gave me, I have the strength to walk away. So I am being skeptical or "cautiously optimistic" and I know that even if he does get a divorce, its going to be rough road for us.

[Lauriebell82]

Age is not an issue to ME, it's an issue to my family. I suppose I am just hoping in time that they will accept it. I am in my mid-twenties.

 

And I do realize that I was wrong for pursuing a married man. It's not like I threw myself at him, but I was definitely flirting with him even though I knew he was married. I didn't think anything would happen, honestly. But in any case, I know it wasn't right and I shouldn't have done it. I'm not trying to defend myself, I accept the fact that it was wrong and I really should have thought about the consequences of my actions. BUT it does not mean that I enjoy drama. Why would I, or anyone, want to be going through this?

 

And I'm not saying that I completely believe 100% what MM is saying and that I'm disregarding everyone's comments here. I wouldn't have posted here if I wasn't interested in hearing your comments/ input/ advice. I'm just waiting to see what happens. My therapist said there is no harm in waiting a couple months as long as if he doesn't come through in the timeframe HE gave me, I have the strength to walk away. So I am being skeptical or "cautiously optimistic" and I know that even if he does get a divorce, its going to be rough road for us.

 

Are you going to have the strength to walk away in a few months? In another few months he will have some other ploy to keep you around just like this promise ring he gave you. What is going to be different then? If you don't have the strength to walk away now, where are you going to get the strength to walk away after investing more time in the A? These are things to think through.

[bentnotbroken]

Age is not an issue to ME, it's an issue to my family. I suppose I am just hoping in time that they will accept it. I am in my mid-twenties.

 

And I do realize that I was wrong for pursuing a married man. It's not like I threw myself at him, but I was definitely flirting with him even though I knew he was married. I didn't think anything would happen, honestly. But in any case, I know it wasn't right and I shouldn't have done it. I'm not trying to defend myself, I accept the fact that it was wrong and I really should have thought about the consequences of my actions. BUT it does not mean that I enjoy drama. Why would I, or anyone, want to be going through this?

 

And I'm not saying that I completely believe 100% what MM is saying and that I'm disregarding everyone's comments here. I wouldn't have posted here if I wasn't interested in hearing your comments/ input/ advice. I'm just waiting to see what happens. My therapist said there is no harm in waiting a couple months as long as if he doesn't come through in the timeframe HE gave me, I have the strength to walk away. So I am being skeptical or "cautiously optimistic" and I know that even if he does get a divorce, its going to be rough road for us.

 

 

Again contradicting words. You stated in a previous post you seduced him. That doesn't jive with what you posted above. YOU didn't care about him, his family or yourself. Any therapist who would tell you to wait for drama needs to rethink their career choice.

[sc58]

Again contradicting words. You stated in a previous post you seduced him. That doesn't jive with what you posted above. YOU didn't care about him, his family or yourself. Any therapist who would tell you to wait for drama needs to rethink their career choice.

 

I didn't really know what word to use...I thought "seduced" was the most appropriate, but I guess I was wrong. I flirted with him, I made it obvious I was interested, but I suppose "seduced" is not really the right word in hindsight. I guess what I meant was if I never flirted with him in the first place, he wouldn't have eventually flirted back and pursued me later and we wouldn't have been in this mess at all.

[bentnotbroken]

I didn't really know what word to use...I thought "seduced" was the most appropriate, but I guess I was wrong. I flirted with him, I made it obvious I was interested, but I suppose "seduced" is not really the right word in hindsight. I guess what I meant was if I never flirted with him in the first place, he wouldn't have eventually flirted back and pursued me later and we wouldn't have been in this mess at all.

 

 

He made his own choices...but your other posts talked about how you persisted in your flirting. You seem as if you wouldn't have done that had he not been married. I would just remember that he once gave her a ring with promises tied to it. Look what it got her. A young girl came along and flirting knowing he was married and persisted when he resisted. The ring that he gave her meant nothing in the end did it?

[Lauriebell82]

He made his own choices...but your other posts talked about how you persisted in your flirting. You seem as if you wouldn't have done that had he not been married. I would just remember that he once gave her a ring with promises tied to it. Look what it got her. A young girl came along and flirting knowing he was married and persisted when he resisted. The ring that he gave her meant nothing in the end did it?

 

And let's not forget that pesky little "I promise to be true to you" vow. That didn't get his W anywhere either...

[sc58]

He made his own choices...but your other posts talked about how you persisted in your flirting. You seem as if you wouldn't have done that had he not been married. I would just remember that he once gave her a ring with promises tied to it. Look what it got her. A young girl came along and flirting knowing he was married and persisted when he resisted. The ring that he gave her meant nothing in the end did it?

 

I know he was married, so I should have stopped, but for some reason, I didn't. He tells me now that from the first moment he saw me, he felt something for me, which is why he tried so hard to keep his distance. And that's how I felt about him. The first time I saw him, I was instantly attracted and when we talked, I felt this amazing connection. My heart dropped when he said he was married. I know I should have left it at that, and sometimes I wonder if I only persisted because I couldn't have him...

 

I've expressed my concerns to him, about the guilt I feel, and he tells me it was his choice. He could have said no when I asked him to lunch or when I asked for a ride. But if I hadn't asked, we wouldn't be where we are now. He wouldn't have asked me to lunch or offered me a ride home. I suppose it was still his choice, but I often feel really guilty about it and wonder what his life would have been like if he never met me.

[Lauriebell82]

I suppose it was still his choice, but I often feel really guilty about it and wonder what his life would have been like if he never met me.

 

He would have another OW right now who he is lying to and manipulating. And if you get the strength to leave, I'm sure he will find someone else to take your place.

[Fieldsofgold]

I know he was married, so I should have stopped, but for some reason, I didn't. He tells me now that from the first moment he saw me, he felt something for me, which is why he tried so hard to keep his distance. And that's how I felt about him. The first time I saw him, I was instantly attracted and when we talked, I felt this amazing connection. My heart dropped when he said he was married. I know I should have left it at that, and sometimes I wonder if I only persisted because I couldn't have him...

 

I've expressed my concerns to him, about the guilt I feel, and he tells me it was his choice. He could have said no when I asked him to lunch or when I asked for a ride. But if I hadn't asked, we wouldn't be where we are now. He wouldn't have asked me to lunch or offered me a ride home. I suppose it was still his choice, but I often feel really guilty about it and wonder what his life would have been like if he never met me.

 

I wonder what your life will be like if you end up with him.

[Carrot2000]

I've expressed my concerns to him, about the guilt I feel, and he tells me it was his choice. He could have said no when I asked him to lunch or when I asked for a ride. But if I hadn't asked, we wouldn't be where we are now. He wouldn't have asked me to lunch or offered me a ride home. I suppose it was still his choice, but I often feel really guilty about it and wonder what his life would have been like if he never met me.

 

And where are you now? Is it a good place?

 

I'm curious about the breakup of your five-year relationship; was MM a rebound? Are you grasping on to him to fill the void the end of your last relationship left?

[spice4life]

Age is not an issue to ME, it's an issue to my family. I suppose I am just hoping in time that they will accept it. I am in my mid-twenties.

 

And I do realize that I was wrong for pursuing a married man. It's not like I threw myself at him, but I was definitely flirting with him even though I knew he was married. I didn't think anything would happen, honestly. But in any case, I know it wasn't right and I shouldn't have done it. I'm not trying to defend myself, I accept the fact that it was wrong and I really should have thought about the consequences of my actions. BUT it does not mean that I enjoy drama. Why would I, or anyone, want to be going through this?

 

And I'm not saying that I completely believe 100% what MM is saying and that I'm disregarding everyone's comments here. I wouldn't have posted here if I wasn't interested in hearing your comments/ input/ advice. I'm just waiting to see what happens. My therapist said there is no harm in waiting a couple months as long as if he doesn't come through in the timeframe HE gave me, I have the strength to walk away. So I am being skeptical or "cautiously optimistic" and I know that even if he does get a divorce, its going to be rough road for us.

 

Okay, it's good that you admit that you flirted with him first and he eventually responded. Now it's time to take the next step and ask yourself what YOU truly want in your future. What is it and can HE give it to you? And more importantly, you should talk about it with him. Is he aware that you might want to have a family of your own one day? If he does, is he willing to give it to you? These are important questions that need to be answered before either of you commit any further. You both need to be fair with each other.

 

I know that all logic goes out the window during an A, but if the two of you are going to move forward to the next step then you BOTH need to clear about what you want in the future.

 

I think that YOU need to step back from him at the moment and really think about what it is that you want. Space will allow the "A" fog to lift so you can examine your motivations. It's important because there are more than just the two of you to consider in this situation.

 

Just some stuff you might want to think about and giving YOURSELF some space will help you with that.

[sc58]

I'm curious about the breakup of your five-year relationship; was MM a rebound? Are you grasping on to him to fill the void the end of your last relationship left?

 

MM was not a rebound. That 5-year relationship was a long-distance one, so I didn't see him much anyways. The relationship had not been good for a few years already, so we both knew it was coming. Neither of us were happy and it came to point where when I did go to visit him, I felt nothing for him. It just didn't work out. And neither of us were willing to move for the other. It was a mutual break up and I didn't even cry over it.

 

So I don't think my MM is filling the void my last relationship left. There really was no void when it ended. I felt more relief than anything else.

[sc58]

Okay, it's good that you admit that you flirted with him first and he eventually responded. Now it's time to take the next step and ask yourself what YOU truly want in your future. What is it and can HE give it to you? And more importantly, you should talk about it with him. Is he aware that you might want to have a family of your own one day? If he does, is he willing to give it to you? These are important questions that need to be answered before either of you commit any further. You both need to be fair with each other.

 

 

Yes, he is aware that I might want to have a family later. At the moment, I don't want kids. Seriously, the thought of creating another human life just scares the sh*t out of me. But I know that may change as I get older. He says if I do change my mind later, he would be okay with that and while he doesn't want another child right now, he may think differently down the line too. He said he would love to have a little me running around, but honestly, I can't even handle my dog, let alone another human being.

[Carrot2000]

MM was not a rebound. That 5-year relationship was a long-distance one, so I didn't see him much anyways. The relationship had not been good for a few years already, so we both knew it was coming. Neither of us were happy and it came to point where when I did go to visit him, I felt nothing for him. It just didn't work out. And neither of us were willing to move for the other. It was a mutual break up and I didn't even cry over it.

 

So I don't think my MM is filling the void my last relationship left. There really was no void when it ended. I felt more relief than anything else.

 

So you left one unsatisfying relationship with someone who couldn't be with you and love you full-time and ended up in another relationship with someone who is unavailable and can't be with you full-time?

[bentnotbroken]

I know he was married, so I should have stopped, but for some reason, I didn't. He tells me now that from the first moment he saw me, he felt something for me, which is why he tried so hard to keep his distance. And that's how I felt about him. The first time I saw him, I was instantly attracted and when we talked, I felt this amazing connection. My heart dropped when he said he was married. I know I should have left it at that, and sometimes I wonder if I only persisted because I couldn't have him...

 

I've expressed my concerns to him, about the guilt I feel, and he tells me it was his choice. He could have said no when I asked him to lunch or when I asked for a ride. But if I hadn't asked, we wouldn't be where we are now. He wouldn't have asked me to lunch or offered me a ride home. I suppose it was still his choice, but I often feel really guilty about it and wonder what his life would have been like if he never met me.

 

 

You are only responsible for your actions and choices...not his. He is right you shouldn't feel guilty for him saying yes...that's all on him.

[whichwayisup]

Age is not an issue to ME, it's an issue to my family. I suppose I am just hoping in time that they will accept it. I am in my mid-twenties.

So he's in his 40's. Something tells me the age thing isn't going to be what is going to upset your family, it'll be that you had an affair with a MM (kids or not) and he left his wife to be with you. Age is going to be the last thing on their minds.

 

 

I've expressed my concerns to him, about the guilt I feel, and he tells me it was his choice. He could have said no when I asked him to lunch or when I asked for a ride. But if I hadn't asked, we wouldn't be where we are now. He wouldn't have asked me to lunch or offered me a ride home. I suppose it was still his choice, but I often feel really guilty about it and wonder what his life would have been like if he never met me.

 

Shouldn't it be more what YOUR life would be like if you never met him? You are totally focussed on HIS best needs and not your own.

 

I still say back off and leave him be to see if he actually divorces or if it's all just talk. If you can't leave now, how will you be able to leave in afew months? Your therapist is off the mark on this one telling you to stand by him and let this play out.