Refusal-Long time refused & considering leaving...

[The Blue Knight]

The issues in your brain need addressing as much as your wife's.

 

Why doesn't she intend to please you? Is she that selfish? Why would you NOT penetrate her when your erect?

 

Cuddling, foreplay - its intended to LEAD to intercourse. Why must either one of you roadblock the natural flow and progression of passion?

 

Haven't you ever had a quickie? Sheez, do it! When she's bending over to grab something in the kitchen cupboard - just slip it in! Seriously - take charge man!

 

Waiting until she "gives her prim and proper approval - you could be waiting a lifetime"

 

Are either one of you mentally deficient? I have a friend who is downs syndrome - and even she gets laid regularly by her down syndrome boyfriend. Does that tell you how naturally this should be done?

 

Your W shows very unhealthy mental aspects to sex IF she's not engaging in penetration with you after you arouse her.

 

Was she sexually violated through her younger years? Could be...

Have you been following the entire background on what Florida is dealing with in his marriage? The last couple posts (this one and KY jelly) make something as complex as what he's got on his hands sound oh so easy. Talk is cheap folks. Living the dynamics 24/7 from day to day with someone who has major sexual hangups is a slightly different matter. "Slipping it in" and "taking charge" with someone like his wife is liable to send her in the opposite direction sexually or worse yet, get him reported for sexual assault. In many states forcing sex on someone, even when your married to that person falls under sexual assault.

[PinkInTheLimo]

Have you been following the entire background on what Florida is dealing with in his marriage? The last couple posts (this one and KY jelly) make something as complex as what he's got on his hands sound oh so easy. Talk is cheap folks. Living the dynamics 24/7 from day to day with someone who has major sexual hangups is a slightly different matter. "Slipping it in" and "taking charge" with someone like his wife is liable to send her in the opposite direction sexually or worse yet, get him reported for sexual assault. In many states forcing sex on someone, even when your married to that person falls under sexual assault.

 

I think that someone with major sexual hangups is not fit for marriage. It's as simple as that.

And Florida has issues as well otherwise he would have been out of the door a long time. He does not want a normal sexual relationship. I think he suffers from the madonna-whore complex. If his wife would have turned out to be a very sexual woman, it would have intimidated him and he would have resented her for it.

 

I get that some physical issue might make intercourse difficult but if I would be confronted with such an issue, I'd be at the doctor's the next day plus I would make sure there are plenty of other sexual activities going on.

[The Blue Knight]

I think that someone with major sexual hangups is not fit for marriage. It's as simple as that.

And Florida has issues as well otherwise he would have been out of the door a long time. He does not want a normal sexual relationship. I think he suffers from the madonna-whore complex. If his wife would have turned out to be a very sexual woman, it would have intimidated him and he would have resented her for it.

 

I get that some physical issue might make intercourse difficult but if I would be confronted with such an issue, I'd be at the doctor's the next day plus I would make sure there are plenty of other sexual activities going on.

 

Pink, we all have different tolerances and issues when it comes to relationships. That's why when someone posts about their husband or wife cheating on them you hear everything from "leave the bastard" to "stay and see if you can make it work." Different strokes for different folks.

 

I think people come here for advise which is good. But I think there are a lot of people who come here to offer advise (largerparts) and are incapable of exercising any type of empathy.

 

My tolerance for what he's going through wouldn't match Florida's and I would have probably been out the door by this point. But he's not me and I'm not him. Whatever his psychological connection to his wife, be it dysfunctional or otherwise, he's making the choice.

 

At some point this will play out and his wife's either going to make the adjustment to a normal sex life; he's going to stay and live out his life this way; or he's going to bolt.

[Floridaman]

We are doing better, but it's slow, as I've posted in my thread.

We ML once in Jan. after a romantic weekend.

Then, ALMOST ML this month.

Once two weeks ago and Valentine's Day eve.

 

The other night, I got VERY CLOSE, caressing and kissing her breasts, and even my fingers made it "down south."

As she had an early morning ahead, and I didn't want to "work her up" or "wear her out" as ML sometimes does to her.

 

So like a "gentleman," told her I would stop it here.

It was getting late.

Did the same thing Valentine's Day eve.

 

But.... I don't get any "acknowledgement" on that.

I tried to ML with her this past week and last night.

She's tired, falls asleep, we get at the cuddling and caressing too late in the eve., so I'm out of luck.

 

I express my frustration and say

"Look, there's no other nights for us unless Fri. and Sat., as other nights are work nights.

I HAVE to have a sexual relationship with you...."

 

Told her "Look.. I forgo'd going inside you, like I really wanted.

I was ready, willing and able, started-up and everything... but for you, gave it up...."

 

If we get to the heavy petting, breast-caressing and kissing, and light stuff "below," I'm not going to be a "gentleman" anymore.

Not going to suggest that we stop anymore.

It's clearly getting me nowhere.

 

I'm going to proceed ---- and not worry so much about her "feelings" or "comfort" (the late hour) as I have needs and they're not being reciprocated,

 

"Reciprocated" meaning her saying something like,

"FL MAN.... I love you and know you want to ML with me, but as it's late, I appreciate you deferring.

I will try to make it up to you this weekend...."

 

Imagine that's how some husbands treat their wives at that stage...

Am curious if the guys "just proceed" after that breast kissing and caressing stage?

Am not talking about rape or forcible sex, but doing what a man should do, like some of the posters in my thread advise me to do (be a more "alpha male").

 

 

******************

 

 

The other afternoon, cuddling on the couch, I was wearing only a shirt and underwear, as had done some house cleaning.

 

Was noticeably aroused, and popped it out.

Tried to ***gently**** show and tell her that it's "okay" and not immoral for her to caress me.

She didn't caress me, but didn't throw a scene and demand I put it back inside my underwear.

 

Told her many couples "explore" and I "wouldn't think less of this modest Christian woman for doing this...."

 

Am trying to get her used to doing light sexual things like that.

Told her a man's penis is as sensitive as a woman's breasts, and would really please me if she pleased me just by some touching, though I'd love some oral like I got when I was single

....only one time in my life, and not to completion, if memory serves me, in "everything...but" sex play....

....but she's adamant against letting me give her oral, which I so want to do.

 

Guess I should have tried some oral on her when we dated....

It may have been better on both our consciences rather than going straight for PIV, which is what it seemed she wanted (she didn't object) and I couldn't really refuse, starving as I was @30....

Edited February 19, 2012 by Floridaman

[giotto]

I'm crying, personally...

[carhill]

I'm crying, personally...

While the clarity and stark description of the encounters had me wishing it was posted in the sexual practices area, I think I get what you mean, based on your history. What I'm hearing from the OP is very similar in scope to what I've heard over the decades from married women who were/are yearning and desperate to connect with their husbands at the intimate emotional level and their husbands refuse them or ignore them. With the OP, his 'connection' is through sex, as it is for most 'normal' men. He's yearning and I daresay desperate, even though he might not admit that, and he's rebuffed at every turn. Not a place I'd want to be.

[giotto]

While the clarity and stark description of the encounters had me wishing it was posted in the sexual practices area, I think I get what you mean, based on your history. What I'm hearing from the OP is very similar in scope to what I've heard over the decades from married women who were/are yearning and desperate to connect with their husbands at the intimate emotional level and their husbands refuse them or ignore them. With the OP, his 'connection' is through sex, as it is for most 'normal' men. He's yearning and I daresay desperate, even though he might not admit that, and he's rebuffed at every turn. Not a place I'd want to be.

 

It's one of the most heartbreaking stories I've ever read here on LS...

[xxoo]

It's heartbreaking, but also SO difficult to wrap my head around. So much inexperience at this stage of life and marriage, it just isn't normal.

 

You BOTH need a sex therapist. It is wrong to blame all this dysfunction on his wife.

 

As for only having Fri and Sat night, what about that afternoon cuddling on the couch? Why couldn't you have sex then?

 

What about a Sunday afternoon.....like today????

 

You've got hours and hours before she needs to be up for work!

[giotto]

Unavoidable tragedies are heartbreaking.

 

Continually banging one's head into a brick wall and saying "Gee it hurts. Maybe if I keep banging my head harder the pain will go away" is heartbreakingly stupid behavior.

 

Not everybody has the skills to deal with the problems life throws at us. It might be "heartbreakingly stupid behavior", but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be sympathetic... having said that, we keep repeating the same stuff and it ain't getting any better...

 

Anyway, we know you are Large Parts...

Edited February 19, 2012 by giotto

[giotto]

What you are calling "sympathetic" I would call "being an enabler."

 

yes, you are probably right...

[xxoo]

Playing the blame game as to whose fault that might be is a waste of time.

 

I highly doubt FLman would have a normal sexual relationship with a new woman.

 

What you are calling "sympathetic" I would call "being an enabler."

 

Maybe it would help folks like florida if folks like yourself stopped giving him a shoulder to cry on and started giving him more of a kick in the behind.

 

I agree with this.

 

I also think there is something very off about the way he posts these sexual details, esp considering his wife's hang-ups. It seems deeply disrespectful of her privacy. I wonder if it partly his way of taking control and getting back at her?

 

Share these details with a therapist, not the internet.

[Floridaman]

Thank you for the TMI, now I have to go bleach my eyeballs.

Sorry, Tricia.

Tried to go back and edit it but was locked.

 

Believe me, the intent is not to be titllating.

[Floridaman]

 

It's heartbreaking, but also SO difficult to wrap my head around. So much inexperience at this stage of life and marriage, it just isn't normal.

 

You BOTH need a sex therapist. It is wrong to blame all this dysfunction on his wife.

 

 

Agree entirely.

Reading the good contributions from others in this thread, realize I am timid in terms of how I interact sexually with women and have some wrong ideas of sex and women.

This has been an education.

 

On the therapist, want to wait to see what happens with the gynocologist which she's set to see next month.

 

 

As for only having Fri and Sat night, what about that afternoon cuddling on the couch? Why couldn't you have sex then?

 

What about a Sunday afternoon.....like today????

 

You've got hours and hours before she needs to be up for work!

Am with you there and have suggested those times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we get to the heavy petting, breast-caressing and kissing, and light stuff "below," I'm not going to be a "gentleman" anymore.

Not going to suggest that we stop anymore.

It's clearly getting me nowhere.

 

I'm going to proceed ---- and not worry so much about her "feelings" or "comfort" (the late hour) as I have needs and they're not being reciprocated,

 

"Reciprocated" meaning her saying something like,

"FL MAN.... I love you and know you want to ML with me, but as it's late, I appreciate you deferring.

I will try to make it up to you this weekend...."

 

Imagine that's how some husbands treat their wives at that stage...

Am curious if the guys "just proceed" after that breast kissing and caressing stage?

Am not talking about rape or forcible sex, but doing what a man should do, like some of the posters in my thread advise me to do (be a more "alpha male").

 

 

Methinks me proceeding -- and not asking her if it's okay (the late hour, etc.) would be the best move. That was the main point of this overly long and much too descriptive post.

 

She requires long periods of foreplay.

The last time, the other night, we were in foreplay for about 2 hrs....

Edited February 19, 2012 by Floridaman

[giotto]

man, I wish you well! Seriously!

[Floridaman]

I highly doubt FLman would have a normal sexual relationship with a new woman.

No, you're wrong there. Wasn't a virgin in my 20s.

Have been in relationships with other women and would certainly know how to handle myself.

 

 

I also think there is something very off about the way he posts these sexual details, esp considering his wife's hang-ups.

It seems deeply disrespectful of her privacy. I wonder if it partly his way of taking control and getting back at her?

 

Share these details with a therapist, not the internet.

The internet is great for anonymity.

Sorry if the play-by-play gets too much. Will promise to word my descriptions less descriptively.

No, she doesn't know about this thread and have taken steps to keep it that way.

 

 

BTW- have some good news to report.

Let's just say I "proceeded as a man" and didn't worry so much about her feelings.....

May post more later...

[2sunny]

Did you read that entire thread that Nick had?

 

A lot of things discussed there could be a consideration for you.

[Floridaman]

Did you read that entire thread that Nick had?

 

A lot of things discussed there could be a consideration for you.

Yes, but haven't looked at it in a while. Am subscribed to it.

Recently "bumped" it so it wouldn't "time out" or close... as threads do after 60 days...

 

May need to re-read some things.

 

2Sunny,

You provided some good solid advice there to Nick. as you have in this thread.

Thank you.

 

 

Let's just say I'm in a better mood lately....

Edited February 21, 2012 by Floridaman

[2sunny]

So - you get happy and satisfied as long as she gives you sex?

 

Does she realize she holds all that power over you?

[FredRutherford]

This is interesting.... to respond later

Edited February 21, 2012 by FredRutherford

[giotto]

So - you get happy and satisfied as long as she gives you sex?

 

Does she realize she holds all that power over you?

 

is this something new?

[Floridaman]

 

So - you get happy and satisfied as long as she gives you sex?

 

Does she realize she holds all that power over you?

 

 

Not sure how to answer that penetrating question.... or if I wanna answer it.

[KathyM]

I think FM loves his wife and is trying hard to work out their sexual incompatibility. You don't throw away someone you love because of some sexual hangups. You work on them together, and I would certainly agree that a sex therapist/marriage counselor is the way to go with this.

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by 2sunny

 

So - you get happy and satisfied as long as she gives you sex?

 

Does she realize she holds all that power over you?

 

is this something new?

 

No, but it's not something you're not unfamiliar with either, right?

 

man, I wish you well! Seriously!

I know you do and know you're experiencing some heartache/ difficulties in your marriage as well.

Haven't read your posts lately but remember your's here in this thread (thank you, sir) and have seen your interactions with The Blue Knight in the "Martial Expectations" thread and some other threads like "Goodbye Intimacy in our 30s..".

 

Odd so many of us ended up with low-drive spouses.

Judging by her willingness (which greatly impressed this inexperienced and naive guy who was starving through my 20s when I met her in my early 30s), would never have predicted this when we courted....

Edited February 22, 2012 by Floridaman

[Floridaman]

 

I think FM loves his wife and is trying hard to work out their sexual incompatibility. You don't throw away someone you love because of some sexual hangups. You work on them together, and I would certainly agree that a sex therapist/marriage counselor is the way to go with this.

 

 

Thanks, Kathy.

As the title of this thread, yes, I was consdering leaving, but that was during a difficult time when we were apart for nearly a year. Circumstances explained earlier in this thread, were to move to a diff. state but our home wouldn't sell. I remained here until the home was to sell.

 

Am planning to suggest a marriage counselor with sex therapy expertise but after she sees her gynocologist. Am hoping that will doctor's visit will help.

 

 

****

 

Almost forgot to update my situation.

We were cuddling on the couch the other night.

She suggested we go to the bedroom to "go to bed..."

Thought her expression seemed a little different as she normally isn't so enthusiastic about retiring. It wasn't that late.

 

Had plans to press her anyway and was going to cuddle and kiss her in bed and then make some moves.

 

It all went down that way and I got to the caressing stage and kept that going.

 

She requires long periods of foreplay.

The other night, it took around 2 hours to get her going... Hence my disappointment when she didn't let me go farther.

 

This night, however, only took a half-an-hour to get her going before I was headed home...

 

She does experience pain, so I have to go slow, VERY SLOW and I can't go too deep.

I have to take it easy and control myself which is hard (naturally, want to go further), but worth it, IMO.

If I go too deep, it hurts her, and we've prematurely stopped in the past bec. of that.

Again, I don't want her in pain and always ask her how she's feeling.

 

Didn't ask her that night, however, if I could proceed after the caressing stage.

Just did it like a man's gotta do.

 

Thanks to encouragement from the posters here in the thread and offline in PMs, I'm on my way....

 

Am hoping to continue this happy story at least on weekends.....

[PinkInTheLimo]

Odd so many of us ended up with low-drive spouses.

 

No no no, you did not ended up with such a spouse. You wanted such a spouse! The best proof is that you have spoken in a negative way about girlfriends who had sex early. My diagnosis: you suffer from the Madonna-whore complex. Either a woman is pure and then she can't have passionate, natural, spontaneous sex. Or she can and then you think less of her .