Refusal-Long time refused & considering leaving...

[carhill]

With regard to involuntary muscle contraction and pain upon intercourse, I believe the word being looked for is "Vaginismus".

 

Sometimes, when a difference in an elementary style of relating is discovered, or changes to such, it ends up being irreconcilable. Part of life.

 

OP, no one's life is perfect. I'm sure most of us would enjoy a 'do-over' of parts of it. It is what it is.. A day will come when moving (life) will end. Better IMO to accept what is, learn from it and keep moving.

[Bittersweetie]

With regard to involuntary muscle contraction and pain upon intercourse, I believe the word being looked for is "Vaginismus".

 

 

Thank you Carhill, I believe this was the condition the therapist mentioned.

 

While it may be true that for some women the "sex is painful" complaint may be an excuse or convenient, I can say that the woman in my group was seriously and overwhelmingly frustrated with how her sex life was developing. She had a lot of emotional pain because of this issue, and loved her husband very much, and was very concerned that their relationship would end because of her issue. I'm not saying this is the problem for the OP or others, but having actually seen the crying face of a woman who was dealing with this issue, I think it's a real thing and shouldn't be totally be dismissed.

[carhill]

A way to put it (vaginismus) into 'male' terms is when a man loves his wife, finds her attractive and feels sexual but his dick doesn't work. The physiology is different, obviously, but the impact on the psychology of the man and on the relationship can be markedly similar.

 

A similar sign in both cases of that love and commitment would be actively seeking to both solve the issue and sexually satisfy one's partner in other ways. A lot of sex can go on without penises and vaginas.

[xxoo]

A lot of sex can go on without penises and vaginas.

 

Exactly!

 

Floridaman, why is it vaginal intercourse, or nothing at all?

 

Is it because she refuses everything else?

 

Or do you two need some help with ideas for non-vaginal lovemaking?

[2sunny]

A way to put it (vaginismus) into 'male' terms is when a man loves his wife, finds her attractive and feels sexual but his dick doesn't work. The physiology is different, obviously, but the impact on the psychology of the man and on the relationship can be markedly similar.

 

A similar sign in both cases of that love and commitment would be actively seeking to both solve the issue and sexually satisfy one's partner in other ways. A lot of sex can go on without penises and vaginas.

 

 

spot on! even IF you can't penetrate with it being painful for her - are you two able to grow within the lines of what she CAN do? entering her vagina isn't the only way to have sex - or the only way to build intimacy - or the only way to show loving BEHAVIOR. what else is she willing to participate in? i certainly hope her mind isn't so closed that she believes the only way to be intimate OR to have sex is your penis in her vagina!

 

 

another poster who had been with his wife for more than 25 years had his wife suffering too - and his VERY long thread sounds very similar to yours.

 

guess what? ONLY after his W realized that he concluded that he deserved a W who participated with him - and HE was ready to divorce her - did she finally agree to seek counseling and work on changes together.

 

maybe your wife likes keeping her distance? who knows - ask her! YOU are part of this M and you need answers to what she IS and ISN'T willing to do with you...

 

based on how she INTENDS to participate or NOT - how she answers - is what you can base a decision upon.

 

 

 

a LOVING WIFE would be willing to find a ton of other ways to participate and build the pleasure part of the bond/marriage bigger.

 

since she has completely eliminated that part without realizing how much it impacts how you feel - you need to tell her!

 

she can change this - let's fid out IF she INTENDS to... ask her!

[2sunny]

here is the link to the other long thread... do wives actually expect a H to stay married, be happy without sex as part of that M?

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t274558/

 

IF that were me - and i felt i could no longer have intercourse by penetration because my vaginal walls tightened up THAT much - you better believe i'd be in the surgeon's room immediately demanding him to filet me open and FIX WHAT WAS WRONG!

 

in the meantime - i'd be open to sex in any other way that felt pleasurable until i could get the surgery!

Edited October 27, 2011 by 2sunny

[Floridaman]

Exactly!

 

Floridaman, why is it vaginal intercourse, or nothing at all?

No. It's NOT PIV or nothing.

 

But that's all we've done.

 

When we started having sex 4 mos. into our relationship, we went straight to PIV, no OS or other "sex play" or "everything...but" I engaged in with a couple of ladies in my late 20s...

....the kind of things I enjoyed, taking it slow, doing exploring, etc.

Appetizers, not straight to the main course.

 

Have suggested many times how she could "fulfill" me in other ways short of entering. However, she's never taken me up on that offer and seems uninterested.

Maybe she fears I'd expect PIV after such "sex play."

 

Want to do that stuff and release of course, and honestly don't have to finish inside her. Would be content getting my release in other ways. Just want the PIV weekly, if possible.

Is it because she refuses everything else?

Yes, she refuses everything else.

 

The closest I've gotten to non-PIV acts is my "rubbing up against her vagina" short of entering, as I posted earlier here.

I loooooove that and it drives me crazy with new sensations have rarely experienced.

Didn't ask. Just started doing that.

 

This was before I was to enter, so maybe no biggie there.

 

Have attempted oral on her as well, starting to kiss her down there.

Didn't "ask," just proceeded.

But she blocks me.

 

Or do you two need some help with ideas for non-vaginal lovemaking?

Have read Christian and other marital sex books and websites and have some good ideas.

However, if you wish to suggest some, that would be fine.

 

xxoo,

I do appreciate your input here, as well as 2Sunny's, Carhill, sweetie and many others. Thanks for helping.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Floridaman

[xxoo]

No. It's NOT PIV or nothing.

 

But that's all we've done.

 

When we started having sex 4 mos. into our relationship, we went straight to PIV, no OS or other "sex play" or "everything...but" I engaged in with a couple of ladies in my late 20s...

....the kind of things I enjoyed, taking it slow, doing exploring, etc.

Appetizers, not straight to the main course.

 

Have suggested many times how she could "fulfill" me in other ways short of entering. However, she's never taken me up on that offer and seems uninterested.

Maybe she fears I'd expect PIV after such "sex play."

 

Want to do that stuff and release of course, and honestly don't have to finish inside her. Would be content getting my release in other ways. Just want the PIV weekly, if possible.

 

Yes, she refuses everything else.

 

The closest I've gotten to non-PIV acts is my "rubbing up against her vagina" short of entering, as I posted earlier here.

I loooooove that and it drives me crazy with new sensations have rarely experienced.

Didn't ask. Just started doing that.

 

This was before I was to enter, so maybe no biggie there.

 

Have attempted oral on her as well, starting to kiss her down there.

Didn't "ask," just proceeded.

But she blocks me.

 

 

Have read Christian and other marital sex books and websites and have some good ideas.

However, if you wish to suggest some, that would be fine.

 

xxoo,

I do appreciate your input here, as well as 2Sunny's, Carhill, sweetie and many others. Thanks for helping.

 

Do you know if she's ever orgasmed during sex with you?

 

Most women will never orgasm through PIV alone. Most need something in addition to PIV....some direct clitoral stimulation....to orgasm.

 

It makes better sense that she might selfishly stop sex before you orgasm if she NEVER orgasms. She might not even understand what it means to feel in need of orgasm (very turned on). She is very sexually inexperienced, despite her age and marital status. You both are.

 

Quite frankly, I think she is WAY too old to change at this point. Maybe at the beginning there could have been some breakthrough and progress, but I very much doubt it now. She's past 50, correct?

 

As for the "everything but".....it isn't supposed to be either/or. The "everything but" is very necessary FOREPLAY in a sexual relationship. Most women need foreplay to enjoy sex. Most normal, healthy women will have lubrication issues and discomfort with intercourse without adequate foreplay. In the beginning of a relationship, the "butterfly" stage, she might get turned on by hugs and kisses, but later she's going to need some more direct stimulation to get aroused. The problem likely resides in your wife's mind, not her body.

[giotto]

FM, I think your wife needs some serious sex therapy, possibly alone. I think you said she wouldn't consider it (correct me if I'm wrong) - if so, it's a desperate case. As xxoo says, she is probably too old to change her ways, especially without the input of a professional...

[2sunny]

Have read Christian and other marital sex books and websites and have some good ideas.

However, if you wish to suggest some, that would be fine.

 

get the book 365 sex positions. it's beautifully photographed!

 

tell her you intend to try EVERY single position in the book within the year - and IF she's not willing to participate - you will find a gal that's willing!

 

maybe THEN she will open her legs and let go of her control issues.

 

THAT'S what honesty looks like.

 

she's being very selfish and self serving in her narrow minded world!

[Bittersweetie]

FM, I think your wife needs some serious sex therapy, possibly alone. I think you said she wouldn't consider it (correct me if I'm wrong) - if so, it's a desperate case. As xxoo says, she is probably too old to change her ways, especially without the input of a professional...

 

I can say that the sex therapy group I participated in helped me and our sex life immensely. I would go, and then come home and share what I learned with my H, and we were given "homework" to report back on, which at first was not easy but became more and more enjoyable, if you know what I mean. I truly wish I'd done the therapy years before, I had thought our physical relationship was unsalvagable. And I would also say that it's never too late for this kind of therapy...there was a woman in my group in her mid-60s and by the end of the session she (and her husband) were very happy with the results!

[JoyDevine]

Google "Female attraction is the involuntary response to Alpha Male Traits"

 

You are too Beta.

 

 

(loveshack: I am NOT a spammer. I'm not affiliated with any website, or book or anything else. I just wanted to help. Other websites are listed in this thread - why are they allowed to remain?)

[carhill]

The commercial link was posted by a member who was brand new and the first thing noticed on the commercial link was the offer to sell something, for $3.99. The search text provided doesn't bring up that link, at least on the first couple pages. If an established member with a posting history such as yourself had posted the link, perhaps I wouldn't have reported it.

 

The OP is married. His wife made a commitment to him; alpha, beta, omega, whatever, she's abrogating the marital contract with her actions. That has consequences. If you think that women don't change in marriage, or even hourly or daily, well, you've never been married to one. Men deal with it. Women can too. It's called being an adult

[Floridaman]

The commercial link was posted by a member who was brand new and the first thing noticed on the commercial link was the offer to sell something, for $3.99. The search text provided doesn't bring up that link, at least on the first couple pages. If an established member with a posting history such as yourself had posted the link, perhaps I wouldn't have reported it.

 

The OP is married. His wife made a commitment to him; alpha, beta, omega, whatever, she's abrogating the marital contract with her actions. That has consequences. If you think that women don't change in marriage, or even hourly or daily, well, you've never been married to one. Men deal with it. Women can too. It's called being an adult

I posted a link to a Christian marital sex improvement forum, which isn't commercial and a help to couples.

Noticed that was removed in a reply to the original link post, so hope the helpful link I posted wasn't considered "spam."

[2sunny]

what are YOU doing TODAY to make things different than they've ever been?

 

YOU!

 

you move away from solutions ----> to distractions = makes me think you do this in life too...

[KathyM]

get the book 365 sex positions. it's beautifully photographed!

 

tell her you intend to try EVERY single position in the book within the year - and IF she's not willing to participate - you will find a gal that's willing!

 

maybe THEN she will open her legs and let go of her control issues.

 

THAT'S what honesty looks like.

 

she's being very selfish and self serving in her narrow minded world!

I also would recommend getting books and reading material about new techniques to turn each other on. Lots of material out there. I would not recommend making threats at this point, though. That's only going to make her feel coerced and resentful, rather than willing and interested. (And you do realize that to try 365 new techniques within a year means one new position every night.) That's a bit much, I would say, but the book sounds like a winner. I would also disagree with the people saying she's too old to change or too old to learn anything new at her age. I'm probably similar in age to your wife, was sexually inexperienced when I married at 19, and very religious. I am continually learning new things and trying new things in the bedroom, even at my age. Continually looking things up online and trying new sex positions. One of the things on my perpetual list of things to do or accomplish during my lifetime is to try one new sexual technique/position every week. You two just have to take the initiative to improve your sex life, preferably through the help of a sex therapist or a marriage counselor that specializes in that, but if she won't go to one, then that is something that can be learned through reading and experimentation. But I would agree with some people on here that you are being too passive in approaching this and giving her too much power to decide when and if sex will be happening. I think a frank discussion is in order to convey that you are not happy with the frequency of sex in your relationship, you feel very rejected when she refuses you, and that needs to change. Tell her an active sex life is an important part of marriage, to keep your marriage healthy, and you're not willing to give up on that. Tell her you'd like to see a marriage counselor together to improve your compatibility in that area, but would be willing to consider trying to work it out yourselves if she is willing to work on it. Tell her the status quo is not going to work for you and it needs to change. If she then refuses to consider your suggestions and initiative, then you have more serious marital problems than just sex, because that would indicate that she doesn't care enough about you and doesn't care enough about her marriage to improve it, and marriage counseling would then definately be the next step that must be taken. If her doctor doesn't find any reason why she is experiencing pain during intercourse, and you've made sure to use lubricants and engage in enough foreplay, then the pain is likely from infrequency of sex. My suggestion is, having the frank discussion. Be more assertive about the need for this to change, and insist on marriage counseling if she is unwilling to try to improve your sex life on your own.

[Floridaman]

what are YOU doing TODAY to make things different than they've ever been?

 

YOU!

 

you move away from solutions ----> to distractions = makes me think you do this in life too...

I am actively trying to change things.

Takes time though and we have plans with friends this weekend plus some other non-romantic things going on which I won't go into.

 

This started a long time ago and won't be solved overnight.

Started this thread last fall, so it's been a year.

 

And no, I'm not considering leaving, though at the time I started this thread, it was something I thought about.

 

Do appreciate everyone's concern here.

It's not like someone posts some helpful advice here and I ignore it

Or don't try to put it into practice.

 

Am dealing with a refuser here, plus I'm not the big breadwinner in this couple, so I'm not the one with all the power. Women seem to control the frequency anyway.

 

May feel real romantic, and in a loving mood, and may want to try some things one night but she comes home from work angry about something.

Or finds some fault with me over a little thing.

I get tense and easily lose my temper

(wonder why?) and an argument ensues, so no romance that night.

Not that it would be successful beyond cuddling...

It takes small steps.

Believe me, I am trying things.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Floridaman

[JoyDevine]

The commercial link was posted by a member who was brand new and the first thing noticed on the commercial link was the offer to sell something, for $3.99.

 

Yes and someone else posted a link to oral sex lessons for $37. Did you report that?

 

The OP is married. His wife made a commitment to him; alpha, beta, omega, whatever, she's abrogating the marital contract with her actions. That has consequences. If you think that women don't change in marriage, or even hourly or daily, well, you've never been married to one. Men deal with it. Women can too. It's called being an adult

 

This is all irrelevant. As the OP said - this thread is over a year old. This is still a problem! I really felt for him as I was reading it.

I agree that his wife is "abrogating the marital contract" - but WHY? and HOW can it be fixed? That's all that matters here.

 

He got some very good advice about the physical reason this might be happening - vaginismus, menopause.. I just thought he might want other ideas and opinions.

 

You know the easiest way to get someone to have sex with you? Get them attracted to you. If a woman is hot for you she's going to figure out what's wrong with her and try to fix it so that she can please you!

 

Here's the link:

http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/p/alpha-male-traits.html

 

I am NOT this guy - I don't know him... I just stumbled upon the blog and thought it was interesting. To be perfectly honest, I don't know if it works - but if you're being honest with yourself (as a man, or as a woman) you would admit that it makes sense.

 

And just in case it gets deleted again I'll try to summarize it for OP - sexual attraction is not a CHOICE - you are or you aren't. Your wife might WANT to be attracted to you but she's not. According to this blog, wives neeed to see both alpha (strong) and beta(kind) traits in men to be attracted. All she's seeing are beta.

[Floridaman]

Yes and someone else posted a link to oral sex lessons for $37. Did you report that?

 

 

 

This is all irrelevant. As the OP said - this thread is over a year old. This is still a problem! I really felt for him as I was reading it.

I agree that his wife is "abrogating the marital contract" - but WHY? and HOW can it be fixed? That's all that matters here.

 

He got some very good advice about the physical reason this might be happening - vaginismus, menopause.. I just thought he might want other ideas and opinions.

 

You know the easiest way to get someone to have sex with you? Get them attracted to you. If a woman is hot for you she's going to figure out what's wrong with her and try to fix it so that she can please you!

 

Here's the link:

http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/p/alpha-male-traits.html

 

I am NOT this guy - I don't know him... I just stumbled upon the blog and thought it was interesting. To be perfectly honest, I don't know if it works - but if you're being honest with yourself (as a man, or as a woman) you would admit that it makes sense.

 

And just in case it gets deleted again I'll try to summarize it for OP - sexual attraction is not a CHOICE - you are or you aren't. Your wife might WANT to be attracted to you but she's not. According to this blog, wives neeed to see both alpha (strong) and beta(kind) traits in men to be attracted. All she's seeing are beta.

Saw the blog and scanned through it. May read more about it later.

Have viewed similar blogs.

 

Have found good help with this board, a forum designed to help couples improve marital sex, one I used to post in more frequently.

http://www.boards.themarriagebed.com/index.php

It's not a relationship board, like LS, but one focusing on marital sex and the myriad of issues surrounding that from refusal (the section I was active in), sex practices, sex problems, low desire, masturbation, porn, adultery, etc.

 

No problem on cross-posting or recommending other boards, as on enotalone, will recomend LS and vice-versa.

[carhill]

Yes and someone else posted a link to oral sex lessons for $37. Did you report that?

I report all spam posted by members with one post. If that poster was you, you were using a duplicate ID, which I also report. Telling it like it is. Read the TOU for more information.

[2sunny]

I am actively trying to change things.

Takes time though and we have plans with friends this weekend plus some other non-romantic things going on which I won't go into.

 

This started a long time ago and won't be solved overnight.

Started this thread last fall, so it's been a year.

 

And no, I'm not considering leaving, though at the time I started this thread, it was something I thought about.

 

Do appreciate everyone's concern here.

It's not like someone posts some helpful advice here and I ignore it

Or don't try to put it into practice.

 

Am dealing with a refuser here, plus I'm not the big breadwinner in this couple, so I'm not the one with all the power. Women seem to control the frequency anyway.

 

May feel real romantic, and in a loving mood, and may want to try some things one night but she comes home from work angry about something.

Or finds some fault with me over a little thing.

I get tense and easily lose my temper

(wonder why?) and an argument ensues, so no romance that night.

Not that it would be successful beyond cuddling...

It takes small steps.

Believe me, I am trying things.

 

since it's been a year and things haven't changed - YOU aren't doing enough to INVOKE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE!

 

did you read the thread by nick that i attached - i actually think YOU may be Nick... looks like Nick's wife.

 

read the thread. it may help.

 

YOU can change it. SHE may never change though - especially since she believes that you will never leave her... she's not motivated to show her love by making LOVE WITH YOU. and YOU have certainly never told her it's your big priority!

 

IF she never does this - will you live this way forever...? and NEVER consider cheating on her?

 

is THIS enough for you to believe you have a full and happy - loving - life?

 

it would NEVER be enough for ME! a marriage infers sex, love, kindness and INTIMACY... how much of THAT do YOU have in YOUR life?

 

never settle! life is too short!

[JoyDevine]

I report all spam posted by members with one post. If that poster was you, you were using a duplicate ID, which I also report. Telling it like it is. Read the TOU for more information.

 

priorities...

 

I just wanted to help.

I'll leave now.

Edited October 29, 2011 by JoyDevine

[Floridaman]

here is the link to the other long thread... do wives actually expect a H to stay married, be happy without sex as part of that M?

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t274558/

 

IF that were me - and i felt i could no longer have intercourse by penetration because my vaginal walls tightened up THAT much - you better believe i'd be in the surgeon's room immediately demanding him to filet me open and FIX WHAT WAS WRONG!

 

in the meantime - i'd be open to sex in any other way that felt pleasurable until i could get the surgery!

2Sunny,

Just want to let you know I'm starting to read that post.

Subscribed to it when you recommended it, so as am getting many updates, figured would be good to actually begin reading it.

Like this thread, it's long, but I'm into it and may post.

[Floridaman]

priorities...

 

I just wanted to help.

I'll leave now.

Joy,

Don't leave LS or this thread. Your posts are welcome.

[2sunny]

I'd point blank ask her "how often should I expect to have sex with YOU?".

 

IF her answer isn't concrete - she doesn't tell you exactly when (like today) and how often - id leave. IF she doesn't know - she doesn't INTEND to participate. Intent is everything!

 

You deserve an answer now - seeing as you've waited more than a year. Ask her today!