Respect others' choices

[greengoddess]

It depends on the manner in which it is given. I always try and make people see the truth, and always try to be as honest as I can be. Although I rarely post in this section. I do see mostly good people trying to help, but I feel when you say you can't respect a person you are being judgemental.

 

 

So do you respect someone who knowingly day in and day out hurts another? Would you respect someone who abuses an animal? If I see someone abusing an animal I want to kick his butt and I have zero respect for them.

 

People earn respect it is not freely given. Calling someone a derrogatory name because of their actions is being judgmental but disrespecting someone who is hurting others is not judging them. It is choosing not to give them your respect because their actions have not earned it.

[Spark1111]

First off, disagreeing is NOT bashing, nor does SUPPORT = acceptance. Many times I have been told that the choice I made to have an affair was wrong, and the poster went on to explain why they thought so. I never considered this to be "bashing", but more along the lines of concerned criticism.

 

I agree with this! Opinions, and their presentation on a written anonymous internet program,, will run the gamut of all opinions from all sorts of people.

 

Just like real life.

 

We cannot select nor choose what is advised or suggested or disagreed with.

 

A group of people will NEVER agree on what constitutes support or passion.

 

What may offend one, may be viewed as straight shooting advice, by another.

 

When you post here, it is with an understanding that you may face brick bats and feather pillows; sharks and bunnies.

 

Take what you need and leave the rest.

 

If I wanted undying support, respect and compassion for everything I do or say, I can tell it to my dog. He is a great listener!

[Lauriebell82]

So do you respect someone who knowingly day in and day out hurts another? Would you respect someone who abuses an animal? If I see someone abusing an animal I want to kick his butt and I have zero respect for them.

 

People earn respect it is not freely given. Calling someone a derrogatory name because of their actions is being judgmental but disrespecting someone who is hurting others is not judging them. It is choosing not to give them your respect because their actions have not earned it.

 

It depends on what your definition of "respect" is. Respect in my book means that you don't call names, yell, scream, insult, or act violent towards them. It doesn't mean you agree or condone what they are doing.

 

This is just my personal opinion, but I think you ARE respectful in the sense that you don't diliberately make another person feel bad or cause them pain. But again, it depends on how broadly you define the term "respect."

[harmfulsweetz]

So do you respect someone who knowingly day in and day out hurts another? Would you respect someone who abuses an animal? If I see someone abusing an animal I want to kick his butt and I have zero respect for them.

 

People earn respect it is not freely given. Calling someone a derrogatory name because of their actions is being judgmental but disrespecting someone who is hurting others is not judging them. It is choosing not to give them your respect because their actions have not earned it.

 

I think that's a different kind of comparison. Of course I have less than zero respect for someone that hurts an animal, why? That animal is often defenceless against them.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I think OP is requesting that we respect people's choices. We respect their right to make such a choice, even if we disagree with them. Do I personally think those who knowingly hurt others are making good choices? No, not one bit.

 

I would always try and get that poster to see the error in their actions, and while I may not respect their actions, I respect them as a human being who needs help.

[greengoddess]

I think that's a different kind of comparison. Of course I have less than zero respect for someone that hurts an animal, why? That animal is often defenceless against them.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I think OP is requesting that we respect people's choices. We respect their right to make such a choice, even if we disagree with them. Do I personally think those who knowingly hurt others are making good choices? No, not one bit.

 

I would always try and get that poster to see the error in their actions, and while I may not respect their actions, I respect them as a human being who needs help.

 

I totally agree with your thinking here and agree to disagree and I will show respect to someone as a human but I will not respect their choice to harm someone.

 

As to the bolded part, is not the husband, wife or children defenseless to the actions being committed to them and their family since it is unbeknownst to them and becomes known when it is too late...?

[harmfulsweetz]

I totally agree with your thinking here and agree to disagree and I will show respect to someone as a human but I will not respect their choice to harm someone.

 

As to the bolded part, is not the husband, wife or children defenseless to the actions being committed to them and their family since it is unbeknownst to them and becomes known when it is too late...?

 

Then we agree.

 

I agree, it was pretty poor wording.

[bentnotbroken]

True they can, but posters can also manipulate their words in a way that is deemed more appropriate and not *bashing*. Disagreeing is a good thing, no one should cheerlead an affair, but no one should be disrespectful in their disagreements.

 

You can disagree with someone and offer them support, or you can disagree with someone and be completely disrespectful.

 

 

What I deem support and respect are not going to be deemed respect by someone else. My version of respect is if I don't call you everything but a child of God...you have my respect. Anything other than that is what someone else wants me to say the way they want me to say it....not going to happen. I am pushing 50 and I am long past the age of someone telling me how to say something I want to say. I know this is a public board and I roll with the punches(use what you can and leave the rest) my version of support is never going to include rose colored glasses to see it. I am okay with folks ignoring me.

[harmfulsweetz]

What I deem support and respect are not going to be deemed respect by someone else. My version of respect is if I don't call you everything but a child of God...you have my respect. Anything other than that is what someone else wants me to say the way they want me to say it....not going to happen. I am pushing 50 and I am long past the age of someone telling me how to say something I want to say. I know this is a public board and I roll with the punches(use what you can and leave the rest) my version of support is never going to include rose colored glasses to see it. I am okay with folks ignoring me.

 

 

What I deem as bashing is like name calling and such. But I think some posters often need a cold dose of reality, and it's good to know people are prepared to give it straight.

[whichwayisup]

I think real issue at hand here is (atleast what causes arguing and more reaction and going off topic) posters (and I am guilty of this too!) lose focus and instead of just sticking to helping the original poster, WE ALL pick apart/disagree/agree/give our 2 cents worth about how OTHERS are giving advice, if it's good or a bad, unuseful, too rude, too nice, not the right kind of advice etc etc.. If everyone just basically stuck to helping the OP and stopped the side bickering, things WOULD get better here on LS.

 

IT just takes one person (anybody) to go off topic and from then on replies are picked apart, it becomes personal and then the arguing happens.

 

Ego's, the need to be right, point out who's wrong and why, or just wanting to rouse people up for whatever reason - THAT has to stop. Common respect has to happen...that we all have different opinions, come from different experiences, backgrounds, NOONE is right and NOONE is wrong. Does it really matter anyway, who gives better advice and why, depending on whether or not they're a BS, OW, OM, MM, MW or just someone passing on by who felt like offering their advice.

 

Alot of the bickering IS personal between various members. And that gets contagious, spreads into other threads. If we all just stopped and made an effort, ask yourself is it really worth taking a shot at someone, for what? Think about it.

 

I always say there's a BIG difference between harsh and rude advice. Harsh advice is a reality kick. Using rude words and being disrespectful isn't cool and it isn't helpful.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[jennie-jennie]

I don't agree with bashing either. I think you can try to get your opinion known without doing it disrespectfully but I can not respect someone who I feel is knowingly and continually harming another person without their knowledge. That person does not warrant my respect because that's what my morals dictate. When my morals tell me to respect people who purposely harm another than I am afraid for my future.

 

If you feel you can not respect a person and their choices, IMO you should consider not posting to such a person. Being quiet is an alternative when we do not agree with another person's moral stands.

 

If you are posting to a person you can not respect, I can not see how that in any sense can be considered support.

 

I choose not to post in threads where posters have chosen NC for example. I consider NC usually to be a poor choice, but I respect that other posters consider it to be a good choice for them. Thus I show my respect of this fellow human being by not posting in these threads.

 

I'm not saying never to post on the OW/OM forum. I am saying that with an OW/OM who has made the choice to stay in the relationship, it may not be supportive to continue to go on about your moral standpoint if you can not respect the OW/OM and his/her choices.

[OWoman]

I cannot let these assumptions go unchallenged, as they are simply untrue for at least some of us:

 

An affair is a horrible situation to be in regardless of what your morals are. Living a life of lies and secrets is not good for anyone. It is especially not good for an ow's self esteem.

 

There are a number of OWs on LS who are, or have been, OWs by choice. Not because they couldn't get "a man of their own" (which is the easiest thing in the world, and certainly no victory!) but because they had strict criteria for what they wanted, which were best met by an A. For such OWs, As are certainly not horrible. They are the result of an informed, empowered choice. And nor are they harmful to such an OW's self-esteem - OTC, they are either beneficial, or self-esteem neutral.

 

Nor do As necessarily involve "lies and secrets" for the OW. They may for the MM - and probably in most cases do, to some extent - but to assume that this extends to the OW is in at least some cases mistaken.

 

If your (general your - not addressed to any individual poster) concern is that an A is damaging to an OW, and you're wanting to help her out of a damaging situation, your first concern should be to establish whether or not the A is in fact damaging and not beneficial to her. Assuming that it is harmful in her life, when she considers it empowering, life-enhancing or otherwise beneficial is not supportive: it is patronising and condescending, pushing one's own morality and telling her in effect that what she thinks, feels or values doesn't count, she should just shut up and listen to her elders and betters.

[Tsm]

Do you really feel someone involved in an affair belongs in the same category as a person with substance abuse? They are not addicts with a disease or a disorder. Although I guess maybe it could be considered a social disorder. I have compassion for addicts. I have compassion for young women who I feel are duped into these relationships with married men. I do not have compassion for someone who knowingly continues the behavior day in and day out hurting others and I will not respect their choice to continue this behavior.

 

Being a drug addict is not the same as being diagnosed with cancer. I dont get your point?

[bentnotbroken]

What I deem as bashing is like name calling and such. But I think some posters often need a cold dose of reality, and it's good to know people are prepared to give it straight.

 

 

I agree the name calling of the person posting is just going piss people off. I do have a but to add....The AP not posting IMO can be called a sleazy, lying, gas lighting jackazzes whatever. Most are IMO, Tony has disagreed with me on occasion:p but I don't see the uproar over calling a liar a liar. Or a gas lighter a gas lighter. Yet I have been reported on more than one occasion by AP who think I shouldn't say such negative things about somebody I don't know. I don't know most people who steal, lie or God knows what else, but I don't have a problem using their actions to give them a label. Unless they are reading here (I sure hope so;)) big whoop. It even happened to an ow who recently posted something negative about her AP...she got her azz handed to her on a platter by the self appointed nice police.

 

 

I don't ask anyone to agree with what I post. I don't ask that they embrace every word and do a life change(but I do pray they see something to go...."what a minute...let me read that again" but I do ask not to be dictated to how and who to post to on what forum.

[bentnotbroken]

I think real issue at hand here is (atleast what causes arguing and more reaction and going off topic) posters (and I am guilty of this too!) lose focus and instead of just sticking to helping the original poster, WE ALL pick apart/disagree/agree/give our 2 cents worth about how OTHERS are giving advice, if it's good or a bad, unuseful, too rude, too nice, not the right kind of advice etc etc.. If everyone just basically stuck to helping the OP and stopped the side bickering, things WOULD get better here on LS.

 

IT just takes one person (anybody) to go off topic and from then on replies are picked apart, it becomes personal and then the arguing happens.

 

Ego's, the need to be right, point out who's wrong and why, or just wanting to rouse people up for whatever reason - THAT has to stop. Common respect has to happen...that we all have different opinions, come from different experiences, backgrounds, NOONE is right and NOONE is wrong. Does it really matter anyway, who gives better advice and why, depending on whether or not they're a BS, OW, OM, MM, MW or just someone passing on by who felt like offering their advice.

 

Alot of the bickering IS personal between various members. And that gets contagious, spreads into other threads. If we all just stopped and made an effort, ask yourself is it really worth taking a shot at someone, for what? Think about it.

 

I always say there's a BIG difference between harsh and rude advice. Harsh advice is a reality kick. Using rude words and being disrespectful isn't cool and it isn't helpful.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Truer words haven't been spoken...guilty as charged.

[someday]

It is entirely possible to respectfully disagree with other's POV's. Just because one doesn't agree with an OW's choices and posts to that effect doesn't mean that they do not respect the OW herself. I believe most people here can and do disagree in a respectful manner. Besides, respect goes both ways. It's just as disrespectful to tell others to not post towards their own POV if it’s not agreeable towards the OP’s POV.

[Silly_Girl]

Many not all other woman post here because what they are doing by being the lover of a married man is so morally repugnant even to themselves that they know they can not tell a soul in their real lives. So on an anonymous message board they can discuss their activities which the majority of society deem to be inappropriate.

 

I don't know how you can feel embracing this behavior is benificial to the annonymous poster. An affair is a horrible situation to be in regardless of what your morals are. Living a life of lies and secrets is not good for anyone. It is especially not good for an ow's self esteem. They may get a temporary ego boost with the thought of what the married man is willing to risk by being with them but it is temporary as they realize the extent the married man is willing to go to to keep them hidden from the world.

 

Got as far as this post... this puts me in mind of someone hijacking an AA meeting and telling them they're idiots for drinking and it'll come to no good Oh, and then chucking in a few insults for good measure.

[desertIslandCactus]

Many not all other woman post here because what they are doing by being the lover of a married man is so morally repugnant even to themselves that they know they can not tell a soul in their real lives. So on an anonymous message board they can discuss their activities which the majority of society deem to be inappropriate.

 

I don't know how you can feel embracing this behavior is benificial to the annonymous poster. An affair is a horrible situation to be in regardless of what your morals are. Living a life of lies and secrets is not good for anyone. It is especially not good for an ow's self esteem. They may get a temporary ego boost with the thought of what the married man is willing to risk by being with them but it is temporary as they realize the extent the married man is willing to go to to keep them hidden from the world.

 

And his alotment appears to be even more of an enhancement, and somehow puts him on a pedestal. The exhilaration of the high is only offset by the low (when looking forward to his next communication, is not enough) It's a gamble that the OW will be the 'winner' - and if so what has she won.

 

Even if the original M doesn't end happily (due to the A).. That first W will always be a part of your life in the spirit.

 

So there you are - sharing your prize, forever.

 

Why would anyone wish for LS members to be stiffled, in sharing what they know. Many members have been through this to some extent or another. Why would a member wish for them to be stiffled in trying to share, help others - most importantly trying to save OW years.

[Silly_Girl]

Even if the original M doesn't end happily (due to the A).. That first W will always be a part of your life in the spirit.

 

So there you are - sharing your prize, forever.

 

 

My ex-H had no bearing whatsoever on my subsequent relationships. Certainly neither of us felt 'he was a part of our life in the spirit'. I think you're stretching it.

[BB07]

My thoughts..........LS isn't ever going to be a place where everyone gets along and sees eye to eye, especially this section because affairs are a volatile subject. I appreciate the fact that anyone can post with any opinion, background, or personal experience. I'm very glad that LS is not heavily censored, if it was it wouldn't be a place I would hang out at.

I happen to think that there are some very intelligent thoughtful posters from all backgrounds and I also think sometimes the tough love approach can be beneficial although it's a fine line between tough love and being rude and demeaning to someone. Demeaning someone always puts them on the defensive and if they feel attacked well then they obviously aren't going to keep hanging out so I think demeaning, insulting posts should be handled by the moderators. Of course we all have different definitions of what constitutes demeaning, insulting or rude posts.

 

We should all strive to voice our thoughts or opinions in a way which doesn't drive away the poster. If the subject is something that repulses us or really pushes our buttons perhaps we should simply avoid it.

 

BTW........I'm certainly not perfect (as evidenced by my infraction list) but I do like this place because it is NOT CENSORED.

Censoring sucks......and since we aren't the moderators perhaps we should leave that up to them.

[OWoman]

That first W will always be a part of your life in the spirit.

 

Perhaps that's so in some loopy religions that don't tolerate divorce, but in the enlightened world, people recognise that relationships don't always work out (whether they're marriages, dating, live in relationships or whatever) and they move on.

 

God forbid I'm forever cursed by my first H being "a part of my life in the spirit" - I Dd him decades ago to be rid of him, not to carry him around in some spook world!

 

TBH, the only "spirit" I'd be willing to carry him around in would be formalin... :p

[OWoman]

To return to the OP:

 

I don't think this OW is trying to deceive anyone. It is more likely that she does not feel safe to express the concerns she has on LS. So it would be in the interest of the anti-affair posters as well to make LS a better place for the OW choosing to remain in extramarital relationships. That way a truer picture would be presented of the life as an OW.

 

I do think this is worth reiterating.

 

When I first started posting here, some of the OWs who'd been around longer were surprised that I posted warts-and-all posts about the good and the bad of my R in response to the posts of others. They seemed to think that exposing those aspects laid one vulnerable to attack from the haters, seeking to drive a wedge into your R, and causing you to doubt where you stood. And, having been around for a while now, I've certainly seen that happen.

 

For myself, there was less risk. I don't believe any old thing anyone tells me - I make good and sure to check it out thoroughly myself first. So all the hating clamour just fell on dead ears, and didn't make me question my R... but for an OW who doesn't have that assurance within herself, or from her MM for whatever reason, I imagine that vulnerability remains.

 

But, as Jen stated in her OP, I don't believe it does anybody any favours to project a simplistic picture good or bad of the dynamic of an A. For the person living one, such posts simply won't ring true and they will discard any hidden gems such advice might contain, as a result. I'm far more about representing the full experience, so that the person can weigh up for themselves whether or not the positives outweigh the negatives (or vice versa) to make an empowered, informed decision in their own best interests.

[greengoddess]

I cannot let these assumptions go unchallenged, as they are simply untrue for at least some of us:

 

 

 

There are a number of OWs on LS who are, or have been, OWs by choice. Not because they couldn't get "a man of their own" (which is the easiest thing in the world, and certainly no victory!) but because they had strict criteria for what they wanted, which were best met by an A. For such OWs, As are certainly not horrible. They are the result of an informed, empowered choice. And nor are they harmful to such an OW's self-esteem - OTC, they are either beneficial, or self-esteem neutral.

 

Nor do As necessarily involve "lies and secrets" for the OW. They may for the MM - and probably in most cases do, to some extent - but to assume that this extends to the OW is in at least some cases mistaken.

 

If your (general your - not addressed to any individual poster) concern is that an A is damaging to an OW, and you're wanting to help her out of a damaging situation, your first concern should be to establish whether or not the A is in fact damaging and not beneficial to her. Assuming that it is harmful in her life, when she considers it empowering, life-enhancing or otherwise beneficial is not supportive: it is patronising and condescending, pushing one's own morality and telling her in effect that what she thinks, feels or values doesn't count, she should just shut up and listen to her elders and betters.

 

I would like to believe that MOST other woman do not belong in this category. I believe that most other women are relatively good people who have made a poor decision. I would like to believe that the majority of other woman do not purposefully go out and involve themselves with a man who has a wife and family for their own selfish needs. I think the other woman that participate in multiple affairs because they enjoy married men more and they fit their lifestyle more are NOT the norm.

[OWoman]

I think the other woman that participate in multiple affairs because they enjoy married men more and they fit their lifestyle more are NOT the norm.

 

Who said it had to be multiple As? It may simply be one, suiting that individual at that particular time in their lives.

 

There have been a number of posters on LS who have posted about being happy in their A, enjoying the benefits that that kind of R brings above the constraints of a FTR. I can't recall how many of these were repeat OWs, and how many were first-timers, but to lump them all into some category you wish to pathologise does not erase the fact that they exist, and will continue to exist.

[OWoman]

Oh and just the fact that your "relationship" needs a support forum makes one wonder why you would want to be in it.

 

The same can then be said for Marriage, Dating and the other kinds of Rs for which support forums also exist...

[greengoddess]

Who said it had to be multiple As? It may simply be one, suiting that individual at that particular time in their lives.

 

There have been a number of posters on LS who have posted about being happy in their A, enjoying the benefits that that kind of R brings above the constraints of a FTR. I can't recall how many of these were repeat OWs, and how many were first-timers, but to lump them all into some category you wish to pathologise does not erase the fact that they exist, and will continue to exist.

 

 

and I think they are not the norm. They are the ones who have no qualms about hurting the wife and kids of the cheater. They are the ones who have no remorse for their part in the breakdown of the family unit. For societies sake I like to believe they are more the rare case and not the norm.