Respect others' choices

[Lauriebell82]

I didn't bring up cancer, LB did. I wouldn't have used it as a comparison.

 

I said that you don't know what it feels like to have cancer yourself until you have it.

 

I would rather use a comparison like child birth. You can know a heck a lot about it, you can have been there and witnessed many births. But you don't really know what it feels like until you have given birth to a child yourself.

 

No offense meant, Anne.

 

Yeah, my bad sorry Anne! I was in no way trying to compare the two, just make a point that just because you haven't been through the exact same thing as the OP, doesn't mean you can't offer them support or advise. Jennie was trying to say that since I had not been an OW or been in an A, I wasn't qualified to give advise because I had never been in that situation.

[anne1707]

LB

 

I had no problem with what you said. It was the inference from others that you cannot help if you have not been ill yourself that I object to.

[jennie-jennie]

But the bigger question, the ones I asked that started this thread, go beyond the scope of just letting everyone post their own truth.

 

I care about Jennie-Jennie as a person. I want only good things in her life. I want to be supportive of her when she has tough days. Guess I'm somewhat Pollyanna-ish in that way - I want good in everyone's life. (everyone except my xbf/mm. I haven't felt bad for him yet )

 

BUT, when I believe that an A is wrong, both morally, ethically, and based on my religious beliefs, when I can't condone it because people are gonna be hurt - it's just a matter of which ones - how can I be supportive of the person, without compromising what I believe is terribly wrong and hurtful to at least some, if not all, the persons involved? How do I say I love you, I don't want you to hurt or suffer harm, but I think what you're participating in is just crap - how do I do that? How do I give life-affirming support to the person?

 

Thanks, FOG, I was just considering how to get the thread back on track.

 

How can people who are pro-marriage/anti-affair support OW who have chosen to stay in the EMR?

 

First step is to accept their choice.

 

Second step is...

[Lauriebell82]

Thanks, FOG, I was just considering how to get the thread back on track.

 

How can people who are pro-marriage/anti-affair support OW who have chosen to stay in the EMR?

 

First step is to accept their choice.

 

Second step is...

 

First step is not to accept their choice! You can offer support without agreeing with what they are doing.

[jennie-jennie]

But LB's post was arguing for the ability to provide support and advice whilst you said it was not possible. Sorry but I do find that offensive. How can you really suggest that none of us can advise others unless we have been there in that exact situation whatever it may be?

 

I said:

 

You won't understand what it feels like to have cancer until you have it. Just like there is a lot of being an OW you will have no idea of until you have been one.

 

You can read up all you want on cancer or extramarital relationships. Until you have been in that position you are missing vital information.

 

Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing about not being able to empathise, mourn or feel loss. Nothing about not being able to give advise. What I said is that you will be missing vital information about how it feels to have cancer or to be the OW until you have been in that situation.

[jennie-jennie]

LB

 

I had no problem with what you said. It was the inference from others that you cannot help if you have not been ill yourself that I object to.

 

If you inferred this, you misinterpreted my post.

[anne1707]

I shall just have to go by what you say then Jennie. Just like the rest of us. Because you obviously know and understand way more than us mere mortals. Ane yes, I am extremely pi$$ed by your condescending, patronising, superior attitude.

[BB07]

Thanks, FOG, I was just considering how to get the thread back on track.

 

How can people who are pro-marriage/anti-affair support OW who have chosen to stay in the EMR?

 

First step is to accept their choice.

 

Second step is...

 

Jennie..........NO ONE has to accept any choice here, that is the beauty of this place.

I don't have to accept you continuing to be a OW, I don't have to accept BS deciding to reconcile, etc, etc.

 

Choice..........non censored opinions......within the confines of the TOS. :D

 

You've got a choice to be an OW. I've got a choice to be one or not be one. I've got a choice to say what I want (within the TOS) no matter which side of the fence I'm on. You can't have it one way and you can't MAKE someone ACCEPT something.

[awkward]

If it's okay with all of you, I will post what I want the way I want to. If it's not okay with you, feel free to use the ignore button or alert the moderator.

[Fieldsofgold]

I didn't bring up cancer, LB did. I wouldn't have used it as a comparison.

 

I said that you don't know what it feels like to have cancer yourself until you have it.

 

I would rather use a comparison like child birth. You can know a heck a lot about it, you can have been there and witnessed many births. But you don't really know what it feels like until you have given birth to a child yourself.

 

No offense meant, Anne.

 

just an aside, not meant to distract from the topic, but many doctors have never had cancer OR a baby - yet they are usually the first ones we

go to for advice, help, guidance and care.

[jennie-jennie]

First step is not to accept their choice! You can offer support without agreeing with what they are doing.

 

I didn't say you had to agree with what they are doing. I said you need to respect and accept that it is their life and they made a choice.

 

It's like AA says. The only thing you can do as a relative to an alcoholic is to tell them ONCE that there is a way out of it. After that what you can do is not enable their drinking, and otherwise treat them and support them as you would any other human being.

[jennie-jennie]

just an aside, not meant to distract from the topic, but many doctors have never had cancer OR a baby - yet they are usually the first ones we

go to for advice, help, guidance and care.

 

I agree, but they do not know how it really feels to have cancer or a baby, unless they have been there themselves. That was the point I was trying to make. Not that one couldn't give advice, help, guidance and care.

 

As I said, I have gone through chemotherapy, and the only ones who could understand what this meant were the others going through it. The doctors could give me advice, but they couldn't really understand how it felt.

[BB07]

I didn't say you had to agree with what they are doing. I said you need to respect and accept that it is their life and they made a choice.

 

It's like AA says. The only thing you can do as a relative to an alcoholic is to tell them ONCE that there is a way out of it. After that what you can do is not enable their drinking, and otherwise treat them and support them as you would any other human being.

 

Does AA say that if you respect and accept the alcoholic's drinking? If so....you are enabling it, correct?

 

If the answer is yes, why should someone who's stance is against affairs respect and enable them?

 

Not trying to be a smart azz.......I really don't know the answer but you keep bringing up the AA thing and it seems to be two different things.

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie..........NO ONE has to accept any choice here, that is the beauty of this place.

I don't have to accept you continuing to be a OW, I don't have to accept BS deciding to reconcile, etc, etc.

 

Choice..........non censored opinions......within the confines of the TOS. :D

 

You've got a choice to be an OW. I've got a choice to be one or not be one. I've got a choice to say what I want (within the TOS) no matter which side of the fence I'm on. You can't have it one way and you can't MAKE someone ACCEPT something.

 

Arrgh. My opinion in response to the OP is that to be able to give an OW chosing to stay in an EMR support you first need to respect and accept her choice. If you continue to battle with her about her choice, you can not give her support about the issues she has inside her relationship.

 

Am I not allowed to have an opinion?

[anne1707]

Am I not allowed to have an opinion?

 

Of course you are. Just like EVERYBODY else.

[whichwayisup]

Am I not allowed to have an opinion?

 

Ofcourse you are! But so is everbody else.

 

Again if each of us could just focus on the original poster who creates a thread and each of us STOP bloody picking apart repliers posts, and let everybody have their say, this place would be happier and less fighting would go on. Even in this thread it's happening, being told how to post, how to feel, what I should and shouldn't do. It's so tiresome.

[jennie-jennie]

Does AA say that if you respect and accept the alcoholic's drinking? If so....you are enabling it, correct?

 

If the answer is yes, why should someone who's stance is against affairs respect and enable them?

 

Not trying to be a smart azz.......I really don't know the answer but you keep bringing up the AA thing and it seems to be two different things.

 

Al-Anon says that you should let go of your obsession to get the alcoholic to stop drinking. Accept that the alcoholic has not reached rock-bottom yet. It is his choice to still continue drinking.

 

You enable his drinking by taking away the consequences of his drinking, like for example bailing him out of his debts which he got because he bought alcohol for the money or calling up his boss and saying he is sick. Not by loving and supporting him in general.

 

It is not the drinking or the affair you should respect. It is the individual's right to make a decision about their own life.

Edited November 22, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[jennie-jennie]

Of course you are. Just like EVERYBODY else.

 

Agreed. I never said anything else.

[BB07]

. It is the individual's right to make a decision about their own life.

 

I can say with certainty that I DO respect that. Matter of fact I think most of us here do.

[jennie-jennie]

I can say with certainty that I DO respect that. Matter of fact I think most of us here do.

 

Good! Finally something at least you and I can agree on then!

[Dexter Morgan]

Is it possible that LS can become a place where we respect that other adults are capable of making choices in their own best interest

 

I can respect that as an "adult" you are capable of making your own choices.....I don't have to respect the choice itself.

 

and the choices being made are disrespectful to someone in real life, so I just gotta put up a big about this topic.

[whichwayisup]

Agreed. I never said anything else.

 

JJ, this whole thread is about how you feel how people *should* respond, depending on who they are, how much their opinion should count or not count. On other threads you've been trying to tell people exactly what is appropriate advice and what isn't.

 

Sorry to hear that you had cancer and went through chemo. Glad you're a survivor.

[jennie-jennie]

Let's start over:

 

Originally Posted by Fieldsofgold

Here is my question for you. How do I give you moral support and encouragement for your difficult times, when I think what you're doing is going to hurt you? How do I console or comfort you on a bad day, without encouraging you to stay in what I think is a harmful relationship?

[anne1707]

Agreed. I never said anything else.

 

But you have suggested that "non-OW" should be humble in their posts and refrain from criticising affairs. Sounds almost like censorship to me.

[jennie-jennie]

JJ, this whole thread is about how you feel how people *should* respond, depending on who they are, how much their opinion should count or not count. On other threads you've been trying to tell people exactly what is appropriate advice and what isn't.

 

This thread is about how to give support to OW who chose to stay in an EMR. I am just giving my opinion.