Respect others' choices

[someday]

Have you read any of my posts? I just said that I don't need validation and that I don't need people to agree with my choices.

 

Yes I have, that's where I got my opinion from. You may say that you don't need outside validation but your actions say you do need outside validation.

 

I don't agree with your choices but I respect your right to make your own choices. I didn't agree with my H's xow's choice of becoming involved with him, but I respect her as a person. Others may not agree with my choice to hold her accountable for her choice to become involved with him or my choice to confront her about her involvement.

 

On an internet forum it’s pretty hard to make people respect you…but IRL it’s not so hard to put the fear of God into people to make them respect you….and there’s plenty of people who will disagree with this but, truly it’s no sweat, they don't have to agree with me....and that is because I am secure in myself and my actions.

[Silly_Girl]

Yes I have, that's where I got my opinion from. You may say that you don't need outside validation but your actions say you do need outside validation.

 

 

What actions are they, someday?

[Lauriebell82]

 

One is a generic, insignificant new R/distance R thing and one is more of an OW thing. No way on earth would I post them on here. And yes, that is my choice, and my problem. But I have seen some well-meaning anti-affair posters make enormous assumptions about posters and their circumstances and get close to what I would call preaching, and others outright make up lies. There can be, at times, a gang mentality. Little side jokes and high-fiving of buddies.

 

 

I think this is because of the fact that adultry is so controversial and effects so many people's lives in a negative manner. It is a very sensitive subject. The same is true for abusive relationships. I would say this site is 90% assumptions, mainly because none of us know each other or what each other's relationships are REALLY like. Just from my past experience, my advice to JJ and everyone else would be to post at your own will.

[Silly_Girl]

jennie-jennie, I think many others interpret your posts differently to me. I feel that you often pipe up merely, on principle, to show there is another view; yes, that may make you the voice of dissent, but to show a more balanced view matters to you (is what I think only, because you and I have never discussed such things).

 

I find/found myself in that position too, that the throng was so particularly loud that maybe the only route forward was to speak up where one otherwise may not.

 

Forgive me for being presumptuous, j-j, but I fondly refer to it as bloody-mindedness, in the nicest sense of the word

[Silly_Girl]

I think this is because of the fact that adultry is so controversial and effects so many people's lives in a negative manner. It is a very sensitive subject. The same is true for abusive relationships.

 

Adultery is of course a sensitive subject. But this, surely, is the place one should feel free to discuss it? If I were to post it would be to hear from people with experience of the same situation and perhaps understand their outcomes. But possibly 50% of replies would be from people who disapprove and actually have no interest in me as a person, or the quandary at hand, it would be a chance to project their beliefs/opinions and put me in my place. I don't like that. You can reason as much as you (general you ) like, that it's an online board, you can't stop people posting etc, but I believe that people who merely wish to voice their disgust/disapproval should be discouraged from posting here, both by LS members, and by the mods.

 

I would say this site is 90% assumptions, mainly because none of us know each other or what each other's relationships are REALLY like.

 

Not assumptions. When we read someone else's post we make a choice to believe it, or not to believe it. We can post, or we can move on. Another option that I see some posters take is to discuss the OP's scenario but then overlay it with other 'facts'; they state things about the situation that have no basis (that I can personally see in the posts) which suit their viewpoint/moral stance/argument. That's entirely different and is just not on, in my view.

 

Just from my past experience, my advice to JJ and everyone else would be to post at your own will.

 

Why, thank you.

[Fieldsofgold]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennie-jennie

"Have you read any of my posts? I just said that I don't need validation and that I don't need people to agree with my choices."

Other poster:

"Yes I have, that's where I got my opinion from. You may say that you don't need outside validation but your actions say you do need outside validation."

 

I don't see Jennie-Jennie coming here for validation. I *think* that what she would like is to be able to talk about her A more openly and honestly. When she's having a bad day, she'd like to let her defenses down and say that things aren't going well today, without a lot of people saying, "A-hah! I told you so." Or, "you deserve it."

 

That's what I'd like to see, too. When people are having a bad time - regardless if it's their fault, or desperately deserved Karma coming back to bite them, I'd like to see them be able to post and get some sort of helpful support, even from people who can't understand their choices, or believe they are on a train wreck flying downhill, or who have been in the painful position of BS.

 

If I may quote a famous line from a famous old book, "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy."

[jennie-jennie]

You're confusing "support" with "enable."

 

Interesting comment. I take it that means that an anti-affair poster has no support to offer an OW who chooses to stay in the EMR.

[jennie-jennie]

I can't tell you why anyone does what they do especially when I don't even know the person. I'm saying the poster is the one who makes their own choice on what to post and where.

 

If you don't feel safe, you are not going to open your heart.

[jennie-jennie]

jennie-jennie, I think many others interpret your posts differently to me. I feel that you often pipe up merely, on principle, to show there is another view; yes, that may make you the voice of dissent, but to show a more balanced view matters to you (is what I think only, because you and I have never discussed such things).

 

I find/found myself in that position too, that the throng was so particularly loud that maybe the only route forward was to speak up where one otherwise may not.

 

Forgive me for being presumptuous, j-j, but I fondly refer to it as bloody-mindedness, in the nicest sense of the word

 

You got it exactly right, SG. When I first came to LS, there was only one view represented, the anti-affair view. I strive to give to OW what was not here for me, a more balanced view.

[jennie-jennie]

I don't see Jennie-Jennie coming here for validation. I *think* that what she would like is to be able to talk about her A more openly and honestly. When she's having a bad day, she'd like to let her defenses down and say that things aren't going well today, without a lot of people saying, "A-hah! I told you so." Or, "you deserve it."

 

That's what I'd like to see, too. When people are having a bad time - regardless if it's their fault, or desperately deserved Karma coming back to bite them, I'd like to see them be able to post and get some sort of helpful support, even from people who can't understand their choices, or believe they are on a train wreck flying downhill, or who have been in the painful position of BS.

 

If I may quote a famous line from a famous old book, "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy."

 

You understand me, FOG. We agree on this.

[someday]

What actions are they, someday?

Well, it seems this thread has been edited so I have no examples.

You got it exactly right, SG. When I first came to LS, there was only one view represented, the anti-affair view. I strive to give to OW what was not here for me, a more balanced view.

 

I'm not pro or anti affair (unless the A directly impacts me or mine) but, well, lets face it there are a lot of people who are dead set against affiars...any and all affairs. Personally, I think it's kinda foolish to expect the world to change it's views to suit the views of a minority. The disrespct that OW/OM MM/MW face is part of the package....not that I agree with it but it is what it is.

[Ellin]

I have two issues currently, with my relationship, neither are dealbreakers, that I would sit and discuss over coffee with friends. And would love to discuss here.

 

One is a generic, insignificant new R/distance R thing and one is more of an OW thing. No way on earth would I post them on here. And yes, that is my choice, and my problem. But I have seen some well-meaning anti-affair posters make enormous assumptions about posters and their circumstances and get close to what I would call preaching, and others outright make up lies. There can be, at times, a gang mentality. Little side jokes and high-fiving of buddies.

 

I am happy (I say happy... possibly an exaggeration ) to be challenged on my thinking/actions, and I enjoy posts that get me thinking more deeply. Silverplanets springs to mind - he's learned his own lessons, and his posts are caring yet pointed and assertive and he will put posters on the spot. Without being sarcastic or insulting.

 

Some posts from anti-A members sound like this to me 'I don't like you.... but you must listen to what I am telling you'. Immediately the obstacle is there. Virtually nothing posted after the judgement will be noticed or valued. That's why I don't understand certain posters repeating their 'get a single guy then you fool!' type posts. There's definitely a better way. And I don't think LS is a million miles away.

 

Same here.

 

I don't post on LS about my personal problems any more. When I did it in the past many posters were caring and helpful, but there were some who made me feel like I was their emotional punch bag, making me feel more upset than I had been before coming here for help.

 

I think these people are possibly cowards who enjoy the anonymity of the internet, whereas they would not dare to act in the same way if they were with me face to face. They do not have in in them to show respect for someone's pain when that person has gathered the courage to open up and they don't have it in them to understand that by opening up that person put their trust in other LS members.

 

It's a bit pointless talking about it, though, as these posters will never admit, maybe even to themselves, that they do not have the best intentions. They will forever maintain that they only have the good of the person they give "advice" to, or some greater good at heart.

 

Therefore I now turn for support only to people / places I feel safe with / in.

 

So yeah, I guess we can just conclude that this board in not really a place of support, contrary to its description.

[Lauriebell82]

Same here.

 

I don't post on LS about my personal problems any more. When I did it in the past many posters were caring and helpful, but there were some who made me feel like I was their emotional punch bag, making me feel more upset than I had been before coming here for help.

 

I think these people are possibly cowards who enjoy the anonymity of the internet, whereas they would not dare to act in the same way if they were with me face to face. They do not have in in them to show respect for someone's pain when that person has gathered the courage to open up and they don't have it in them to understand that by opening up that person put their trust in other LS members.

 

It's a bit pointless talking about it, though, as these posters will never admit, maybe even to themselves, that they do not have the best intentions. They will forever maintain that they only have the good of the person they give "advice" to, or some greater good at heart.

 

Therefore I now turn for support only to people / places I feel safe with / in.

 

So yeah, I guess we can just conclude that this board in not really a place of support, contrary to its description.

 

I can indentify with this. As I said before, I stopped posting about my relationship after having some horrible encounters on this site. Some of it was helpful, some of it was not. I would not go as far as to say that this is NOT a place for support, because I believe that you do get that. Responses will range from outright bashing to constructive criticism to caring and empathetic. But because you are not "guarenteed" the type of support that is sweet and empathetic, posting about an A that already has a negative stigma attached to it, it is risky to ask for advice on LS.

 

I guess I changed my mind during this thread, I was trying to defend myself, now I am just agreeing that it isn't always the best place to post about a subject you are sensitive too.

[someday]

Same here.

 

I don't post on LS about my personal problems any more. When I did it in the past many posters were caring and helpful, but there were some who made me feel like I was their emotional punch bag, making me feel more upset than I had been before coming here for help.

 

I think these people are possibly cowards who enjoy the anonymity of the internet, whereas they would not dare to act in the same way if they were with me face to face. They do not have in in them to show respect for someone's pain when that person has gathered the courage to open up and they don't have it in them to understand that by opening up that person put their trust in other LS members.

 

It's a bit pointless talking about it, though, as these posters will never admit, maybe even to themselves, that they do not have the best intentions. They will forever maintain that they only have the good of the person they give "advice" to, or some greater good at heart.

 

Therefore I now turn for support only to people / places I feel safe with / in.

 

So yeah, I guess we can just conclude that this board in not really a place of support, contrary to its description.

 

IMO, they only have the power to hurt you (with their words) if you give them that power. If you invest too much of your own self into what others say (esp those that don't know you at all) I think it's a bad investment.

 

See, I've been the brunt of horrible rumors that could have been very hurtful to me personally if I gave any merit to what those who don't know me and don't love me believed about me because of those rumors. I value what my family and good friends think of me and I knew that they knew me well enough to discount anything they hear about me if it's out of character for me.

[pureinheart]

but you started this thread stating that "people are not respecting/agreeing/listening to you"......people will listen/respect your say when they think you are being reasonable.....show me the last time you wrote some thing supportive of BS or against affair....don't search .... all you ever say is have an affair irrespective of thread/post or BS must be a sick f***

 

Hi U2...I am late and in the event this was not addressed, I would be happy to as, I dealt and have spoken much about the disturbed BS which was in fact a WS also in my own situation. There are others on this board that have dealt with similar sitches and have communicated their own ordeals....but Jennie, has never spoken badly of MM's W, and to my knowledge she has not spoken badly about a BS ever.

[NoLongerSad]

Interesting comment. I take it that means that an anti-affair poster has no support to offer an OW who chooses to stay in the EMR.

 

It is not "supportive" to encourage someone else to continue engaging in a pattern of self-damaging behavior.

[NoLongerSad]

You got it exactly right, SG. When I first came to LS, there was only one view represented, the anti-affair view. I strive to give to OW what was not here for me, a more balanced view.

 

This is something for you to be proud of?

[bentnotbroken]

Interesting comment. I take it that means that an anti-affair poster has no support to offer an OW who chooses to stay in the EMR.

 

 

No more than an anti drug user support an drug user who chooses to continue to use.

[pureinheart]

What do you mean "safe?" Like nobody was bashing or nobody was disagreeing, or both?

 

Hi LB, BTW, just want to say I respect the councellors/therapists I've had the great pleasure to have had their councel...without it I don't know where I'd be...I respect you and your profession a great deal...it IS saving lives today:)...ok, just have been wanting to say that to you.

 

By "safe" I mean that OW (current and former) could post in this forum minus the mean statements, and have the ability to state their A's the way they are at that time. That posters would use good judgement when responding, using respect and saying it right...meaning, if there have been 10 posts that communicate "go NC, get out of the A" and the OP says, "I am going to stay in the A"...leave it alone and support the OPer without bashing due to disagreement with the A.

 

So many times since I've been back on LS I see others dogpile a poster (it happens to Jennie all of the time) because the poster will not agree with the NC or leave the A...then they are told and usually before how selfish, blah, blah, blah. LB, everytime I see this stuff, and it's usually the same posters, I think man it must be nice to be so perfect...now my last statement was sarcastic, although that is what I think. I mean come on, the OP gets the point, they have been told the horrors of the A, the rest I feel is just to bully for whatever reason.

[bentnotbroken]

Hi LB, BTW, just want to say I respect the councellors/therapists I've had the great pleasure to have had their councel...without it I don't know where I'd be...I respect you and your profession a great deal...it IS saving lives today:)...ok, just have been wanting to say that to you.

 

By "safe" I mean that OW (current and former) could post in this forum minus the mean statements, and have the ability to state their A's the way they are at that time. That posters would use good judgement when responding, using respect and saying it right...meaning, if there have been 10 posts that communicate "go NC, get out of the A" and the OP says, "I am going to stay in the A"...leave it alone and support the OPer without bashing due to disagreement with the A.

 

So many times since I've been back on LS I see others dogpile a poster (it happens to Jennie all of the time) because the poster will not agree with the NC or leave the A...then they are told and usually before how selfish, blah, blah, blah. LB, everytime I see this stuff, and it's usually the same posters, I think man it must be nice to be so perfect...now my last statement was sarcastic, although that is what I think. I mean come on, the OP gets the point, they have been told the horrors of the A, the rest I feel is just to bully for whatever reason.

 

 

I still can't figure out how it is you think you(along with a few others) know if someone is saying something right:confused:Do you mean they are saying it the way you think is appropriate or what? It is clear that one person's good judgement is another person's tom foolery. What YOU think is good judgement isn't the standard to which most are going to post. As evidenced by what I think is good judgement in not having affairs isn't the standard to which those who find themselves in or in support of, are going to act in real life. Sheesh...........

[pureinheart]

I have two issues currently, with my relationship, neither are dealbreakers, that I would sit and discuss over coffee with friends. And would love to discuss here.

 

One is a generic, insignificant new R/distance R thing and one is more of an OW thing. No way on earth would I post them on here. And yes, that is my choice, and my problem. But I have seen some well-meaning anti-affair posters make enormous assumptions about posters and their circumstances and get close to what I would call preaching, and others outright make up lies. There can be, at times, a gang mentality. Little side jokes and high-fiving of buddies.

 

I am happy (I say happy... possibly an exaggeration ) to be challenged on my thinking/actions, and I enjoy posts that get me thinking more deeply. Silverplanets springs to mind - he's learned his own lessons, and his posts are caring yet pointed and assertive and he will put posters on the spot. Without being sarcastic or insulting.

 

Some posts from anti-A members sound like this to me 'I don't like you.... but you must listen to what I am telling you'. Immediately the obstacle is there. Virtually nothing posted after the judgement will be noticed or valued. That's why I don't understand certain posters repeating their 'get a single guy then you fool!' type posts. There's definitely a better way. And I don't think LS is a million miles away.

 

Hi SG, this right here is the point to this thread...you would have really loved this forum back in the day...lol...everybody got together and helped everybody WS/OM/OW/BS no matter what...nothing was taken personal, nor meant to be personal, we all understood that the poster was speaking on an individual case basis. We could come here with our hurts and not be bashed, talked down to , nothing...we could just be what we were at the time.

 

In reading this thread and participating, I see some of the same denial of what this thread is about. Such a lack of understanding is beyond me...BUT Jennie...here's a big WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pureinheart]

I still can't figure out how it is you think you(along with a few others) know if someone is saying something right:confused:Do you mean they are saying it the way you think is appropriate or what? It is clear that one person's good judgement is another person's tom foolery. What YOU think is good judgement isn't the standard to which most are going to post. As evidenced by what I think is good judgement in not having affairs isn't the standard to which those who find themselves in or in support of, are going to act in real life. Sheesh...........

 

Bent, there is a good chance you never will...once the persons/posters truth is spoken, what is the point of continuing to repeat it over and over? Makes no sense.

 

Point of this thread is that you CAN support another person whether you like/agree with them or not...I'm not sure what part of that is so difficult to understand.

 

You were hurt by A's, A's are a ore point in your life, I would venture to say that most OW and FOW remind you too much of your own ordeal.

 

I watched the movie "Obsessed" the other day, long story short, Beyonce and the self appointed OW were fighting (physically) and the SAOW fell through the ceiling hanging on for dear life, Beyonce lends a hand to save her....that spoke volumns as to our behavior in general should be.

 

Can we agree to disagree? *extending a hand*

[fooled once]

The reason you see very little of it is because Tony deletes those posts when they appear. There are fewer now than there used to be - my first few threads were deleted for exactly that reason - people posting such comments in such abundance that it was too much effort to weed out the toxic posts from the rest, so the whole thread was wiped out.

 

To assume that OWs just blow sunshine up each others' arses is completely bizarre! If you read what OWs post on other OW threads, you'll see that there is as much challenging and calling for reflection from OWs as their is from non-toxic others. The amount of hate speech and "telling the OW what (someone thinks) she wants to hear" are probably closer in volume, and repesent the extremes at both ends of the spectrum.

 

I keep seeing the "good old days" brought up here and wonder why people think that because it has changed means it is bad?

 

Kinda like marriages after an event. The marriage will never be the same again.

 

Also like friendships. You can be great friends with someone for years and as time goes by, and challenges come out and growth happens or doesn't, marriages or babies ...friendships can change. Doesn't mean the friendship is bad/good/better/worse...just DIFFERENT.

 

No website stays the same year after year - new people come, older (as in length of time) members leave.

 

I keep reading posters view of how they are not happy with LS today and honestly, no one is making anyone be here. LS may not be the same as it was 5 years ago, 3 years ago or even 6 months ago. But to continually harp on how good it used to be is like blowing in the wind. It has changed. Period.

 

And from what OWoman posted, it was WORSE back in the day, compared to now. So really....which is it? Better now or worse now? And isn't that subjective?

 

When I started coming here a couple years ago (I believe it was late 2007 or early 2008 when I first visited here), I saw a TON of fighting - a TON of it. To me, it is much more civil today than it was when I first started reading here. But again, it is all subjective. Actually, if I was Tony, I would be a little peeved at all the bashing of the website. He does the best he can. As we all know, many posters get banned, yet come back time and time again under new names. He can't stop that. He can't make people stop coming here. He is honestly doing a great job with how responsive he is to things. Let's cut him some slack here and stop complaining about the site -- again, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to keep coming here.

 

BB07 had a great suggestion - if the site isn't up to your personal standards, start your own. Start small if you want with a yahoo group and go from there. I just did a google search and found 4 websites for OW.

 

Many times we outgrow a website. Many times we find that one website isn't providing all that is needed for a person.

 

As for people feeling they can't open up - are you kidding? LOOK at the number of recent posts from OW on this forum. There are MANY who have come here looking for support/advice/help - anything from ending the affair, staying in the affair, and/or curious as to who has had 'success' in their affair. Just because it may not be what you (general you) want doesn't mean it isn't helping someone else!

 

On the whole, I see many people who ARE getting what they came here for. If you (general you) aren't, then move on. If you (general you) don't feel comfortable opening up, that is YOUR decision. I, like others, have had past threads thrown in MY face, I have had some really hateful things posted to me and about me and I have been told some really cruel comments about my life...and ALL of these by OW who are the very ones complaining constantly about LS! The same ones who want respect and civility.

 

I personally have chosen to ignore those people and to give the kind of 'respect' that I would want back. I don't believe in cheerleading someone who is hurting; I don't believe in telling someone to accept less than they deserve and I don't get this whole "sunshine and rainbows" type of posting that some people think an anonymous community should be. There are guidelines. I do my best to follow them and like so many others, take my infractions in stride and try to LEARN from them. Like so many have stated, there are a couple posters here who are 'report happy' and it does get tiresome because it seems like it doesn't matter what you write, they report you. I do my best to avoid those people

 

Any online community is what the members make it. You (general you) will never get everyone to agree to YOUR way. People aren't puppets and we all have our own styles, voices and personalities.

 

Name calling OF MEMBERS should be a given that people shouldn't do that. Following the guidelines should be done, although from time to time, many of us screw that up

 

Take what you need and leave the rest.

[bentnotbroken]

Bent, there is a good chance you never will...once the persons/posters truth is spoken, what is the point of continuing to repeat it over and over? Makes no sense.

 

Point of this thread is that you CAN support another person whether you like/agree with them or not...I'm not sure what part of that is so difficult to understand.

 

You were hurt by A's, A's are a ore point in your life, I would venture to say that most OW and FOW remind you too much of your own ordeal.

 

I watched the movie "Obsessed" the other day, long story short, Beyonce and the self appointed OW were fighting (physically) and the SAOW fell through the ceiling hanging on for dear life, Beyonce lends a hand to save her....that spoke volumns as to our behavior in general should be.

 

Can we agree to disagree? *extending a hand*

 

 

1st- That is a venture you shouldn't have taken. Not only do most OW not remind of the ow in my situation...they should thank God that they don't. She was a whole different level of person and I don't see those traits in most of the AP here.

 

2nd- why not say what you want as many times as you want the way you want. If that is an issue then the ignore button, Tony, let it roll off your back because these people mean nothing are all options to deal with this terrible scourge.

 

3rd-Beyonce is a bad actress, an even worse singer in a remake of a sorry movie.

 

4th-The way I post IS respect. It is what is going to be repectful for the situations that I post on. And the only level of support one will get from me is what I deem appropriate for what I think respect is. Not someone else's level of what I view is nothing more than censorship. Until there is a new security force that is appointed by Tony to ticket semantics and "beliefs of respect and support" I and I would suspect others(including yourself) will post as they see fit.

 

5th-we can agree to disagree.

[pureinheart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennie-jennie

"Have you read any of my posts? I just said that I don't need validation and that I don't need people to agree with my choices."

Other poster:

"Yes I have, that's where I got my opinion from. You may say that you don't need outside validation but your actions say you do need outside validation."

 

I don't see Jennie-Jennie coming here for validation. I *think* that what she would like is to be able to talk about her A more openly and honestly. When she's having a bad day, she'd like to let her defenses down and say that things aren't going well today, without a lot of people saying, "A-hah! I told you so." Or, "you deserve it."

 

That's what I'd like to see, too. When people are having a bad time - regardless if it's their fault, or desperately deserved Karma coming back to bite them, I'd like to see them be able to post and get some sort of helpful support, even from people who can't understand their choices, or believe they are on a train wreck flying downhill, or who have been in the painful position of BS.

 

If I may quote a famous line from a famous old book, "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy."

 

 

LOL, first off FOG, if anyone needs mercy it is ME!!!!!!

 

In bold, I am sure Jennie doesnot come here for any validation...noone is that masochistic, meaning there is VERY little validation. For Gods sake FOG I can't let my defenses down, if I want to release some bad stuff or whatever I hide in a long thread and release it there. I'm not even in an A, nor do I intend to enter into one!!!! I'm beginning to think I'm a masochist!