How to stay sane while wife is making decision?

[What_Next]

With all due respect Surfer, you are all but ignoring the advice you are receiving. Trust me, I was right in your shoes (NOT about her actions after I decided to give her a chance) and I was also receiving good advice. I was too stubborn, or too blind or too angry to hear it.

 

STOP... Read and listen. Are you REALLY going to let her go with her "friends" she made in the city? Come on man, that makes no sense whatsoever. The fact that she even mentioned it shows she has zero intentions of following through.

 

She was dumped, she was tossed out like yesterdays newspaper, that is about the only reason she came back and you are damn fool enough to take her back without conditions and without protecting yourself and letting her PROVE through actions that she is truely remorseful for what she did.

 

I'm trying to hang in there with you, trying to be that voice of reason, but you are making it tough...

 

Good luck my friend. Be prepared for tonight.

[Surfer203]

I think we need to have a more in depth talk about my expectations and ground rules. That's all - she will respect them or she will hit the road.

[Donewrong]

The question you have to ask her is if she is willing to take what she has stirred up. Put your rules in place and if she doesn't want to follow them then show her the door. Only you know your wife truly and her intentions but be wary now because you may be still wearing them rose coloured glasses. If she's willing to put in the time, hard work and effort - you will know and quickly. You should be able to put down any ground rule and she should be willing to bend over backwards to make it happen. If she fusses over it - RED FLAG. Good luck Surfer

[Darth Vader]

Darth: Hahah - honestly. NO ONE knew about this divorce except for my parents and brothers and none of them had communicated with he, so she had no clue. So you are wrong there.

 

However, I am being careful. We had a issue last night, it turns out I am the one who over reacted and I am the one who created the problem. It was an issue where she asked my opinion on her hanging out with a girfriend of hers. At first I freaked out and did not want her to go. But she had existing plans, blah blah blah. She told me she wouldn't go if it would make me upset. She also said she will not speak to any of the friends she made while in NYC if I don't want her to. I have not really decided on that yet. I have decided on NC with the OM EVER AGAIN and she agreed to that - he has not even tried to contact her since the night after she left.

 

So.. I think she is on the right track mentally. She did not raise her voice, yell at me or demand to get her way. Which to me is progress. We have a couples therapy tonight, so time to start fleshing things out.

 

 

The bolded and underlined part, is a BULL S H I T answer! She's BLAMESHIFTING you into accepting her choice to ride another MAN! And you BOUGHT IT! You did not create the problem, SHE DID! GROW A PAIR, AND DROP HER ASS!

Edited December 15, 2010 by Darth Vader

[Darth Vader]

The question you have to ask her is if she is willing to take what she has stirred up. Put your rules in place and if she doesn't want to follow them then show her the door. Only you know your wife truly and her intentions but be wary now because you may be still wearing them rose coloured glasses. If she's willing to put in the time, hard work and effort - you will know and quickly. You should be able to put down any ground rule and she should be willing to bend over backwards to make it happen. If she fusses over it - RED FLAG. Good luck Surfer

 

 

And that's coming from a cheater, Surfer! ANY BULL S H I T on her part, and out she goes!

[What_Next]

Amen to that Vader. We don't always agree, but I 100% agree with you on this point. That's why I posted about a few times.

 

Yes Donewrong absolutely sees what your wife is doing and she knows that it is a dealbreaker. It is. Period.

 

Your choice my friend, but you are going to be stepped on again. I know that might seem like the pot calling the kettle black, but Donewrong would never in a MILLION years pull that crap. If she did, she knows what would happen.

 

Your first post after MC should be entertaining to say the least.

[Surfer203]

Thanks friends. I will play this smart. I don't want to get hurt again. At least through this I have gained a stronger skin. Let's hope I won't need it. I am prepared for whatever happens though.

[whguy]

Surfer, I have read both yours and What's Next's stories start to finish, and I feel a bit compelled to add my two cents.

 

As for background, my story is somewhat similar. XW had an affair, and was dumped by OM. In my case, she came clean on her own (a good thing) and told me about it. Like you, I took her back initially and decided to work on things.

 

As I look back (as this was almost 4 years ago now), she came running back to me and confessed for all of the wrong reasons. She was sad because she got dropped like a prom dress, and she was trying to relieve her guilt. It took me several months to realize this.

 

So - as this relates to you, I get it. Just move forward with both eyes open. In my case, had my XW done things right, maybe we would have had a chance (a small chance). My requests were pretty simple:

 

- Don't contact OM ever again. No ifs, ands, or buts.

- Show me some affection

- Put me first, and don't put work in front of me (her workaholic nature was what put her in the position to begin the A).

- Take the lead and schedule MC, and tell me where to go and when.

- Tell me the whole truth, everything at once, the trickle truth is not going to happen.

 

I also said these were non-negotiable. For about 2-3 months, I got the "best behavior". Then, multiple calls in a month to OM. I packed my stuff and left. Came back initially after an apology and an assurance it would never happen again. Then, over the course of the next several months, every one of the other items fell by the wayside - no affection, workaholic nature returned, MC appointments canceled, trickle truth...

 

And when there was another contact with OM, I was out for good.

 

I tell you this to back up my stance. Do what you need to do - if I had left right off the bat, I wouldn't be able to sit here today and say that I did everything I could have done to have no regrets and to have attempted to save my M. By standing up for myself and making sure that change happened (although it ultimately didn't in my case), I was able to walk away and to not be a doormat.

 

So - get yourself to a place where you can say you did what you needed to. But look out for number 1. You'll know what you need to do when you get to a point where you're miserable. When you're at that point, if you get there, you'll realize that you deserve FAR better than you've been getting. And - trust me, there is better. I walked away from a lot - materialwise. My house, many of my belongings, and a hefty alimony bill that I'm stuck with for another yeat, but do I regret it? Nope. It's far better to be poor and happy than to be "secure" and miserable.

[slowbutSURE]

Surfer. Eyes wide open. Perfect. Whguy had great, real examples of things to be careful and aware of. I hope to hell none of those are in your future.

The Perfect behavior, for a while.

Trickle down truth. That one sucks away at you, a little at a time.

Contacting the OM. That makes you look for a loaded firearm. Biggest decision about the last one? Who to use it on?

OM? obvious reasons.

Your wife? Obvious reasons.

Or yourself for being a FU**ING idiot and letting yourself trust her again!

I chose none of those options by the way. I chose to move forward with my daughters and let her be an idiot all by herself!

Eyes open man, 24-7. In no time at all you will know if you made the right choice or still need to.

Good luck.

[Eye of Hourus]

Surfer,

 

Surfer, I have read both yours and What's Next's stories start to finish, and I feel a bit compelled to add my two cents.

 

As for background, my story is somewhat similar. XW had an affair, and was dumped by OM. In my case, she came clean on her own (a good thing) and told me about it. Like you, I took her back initially and decided to work on things.

 

As I look back (as this was almost 4 years ago now), she came running back to me and confessed for all of the wrong reasons. She was sad because she got dropped like a prom dress, and she was trying to relieve her guilt. It took me several months to realize this.

 

So - as this relates to you, I get it. Just move forward with both eyes open. In my case, had my XW done things right, maybe we would have had a chance (a small chance). My requests were pretty simple:

 

- Don't contact OM ever again. No ifs, ands, or buts.

- Show me some affection

- Put me first, and don't put work in front of me (her workaholic nature was what put her in the position to begin the A).

- Take the lead and schedule MC, and tell me where to go and when.

- Tell me the whole truth, everything at once, the trickle truth is not going to happen.

 

I also said these were non-negotiable. For about 2-3 months, I got the "best behavior". Then, multiple calls in a month to OM. I packed my stuff and left. Came back initially after an apology and an assurance it would never happen again. Then, over the course of the next several months, every one of the other items fell by the wayside - no affection, workaholic nature returned, MC appointments canceled, trickle truth...

 

And when there was another contact with OM, I was out for good.

 

I tell you this to back up my stance. Do what you need to do - if I had left right off the bat, I wouldn't be able to sit here today and say that I did everything I could have done to have no regrets and to have attempted to save my M. By standing up for myself and making sure that change happened (although it ultimately didn't in my case), I was able to walk away and to not be a doormat.

 

So - get yourself to a place where you can say you did what you needed to. But look out for number 1. You'll know what you need to do when you get to a point where you're miserable. When you're at that point, if you get there, you'll realize that you deserve FAR better than you've been getting. And - trust me, there is better. I walked away from a lot - materialwise. My house, many of my belongings, and a hefty alimony bill that I'm stuck with for another yeat, but do I regret it? Nope. It's far better to be poor and happy than to be "secure" and miserable.

 

The bolded section above....... Plus, as suggested in my earlier post ..

 

STD & Pregnancy testing, accountability in where she is going, who she is seeing (I think she shouldn't be going out with GF - isn't this how she got into the affair in the first place?)

 

Key logging of computers and phones (e-blaster or similar)

 

TRUST but VERIFY

 

Good Luck and be careful

 

The Eye

 

" I have great faith in fools - my friends call it self confidence" - Edgar Allen Poe

[Ballerfamily]

Thanks friends. I will play this smart. I don't want to get hurt again. At least through this I have gained a stronger skin. Let's hope I won't need it. I am prepared for whatever happens though.

 

2/3 months is all it will take to know the truth. because if she is back for the wrong reasons, you will see it in down time, boredom, etc. THEY ARE BROKEN. THEY HAVE TO FIX THEMSELVES.

 

If she starts blameshifting at MC, tell her to F off and get the heck out of there before you do something you will regret. (when I walked out the first time, I wanted to do evil things)This is why you need time away. When you find her playing you again, the anger will be 10x's worse, and you will scare your self. She is playing with fire if she is not serious. And this woman isnt even close to being remorseful. She crocodiled tears for an hour, and I think you bought it, hook, line, and sinker. I feel really bad for you.

 

As far as her asking if its ok to go out, (OMG) get out now bro. I really believe your in for a world of hurt.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Ballerfamily

[lkjh]

Surfer,

don't you find it odd that the OM has not tried to contact her? Also, you better make her cut out all of her new NY friends

[Surfer203]

Thanks all. Some updates.. our therapist moved our appointment to tonight so.. nothing to update there yet.

 

Whyguy: I hear you fully.. I have set forth the same rules basically and will stick to them, I also will leave or ask her to leave if things are not going well.

 

The Eye: She actually apologized last night for brining up going out with her girlfriend this weekend. She said she was sorry for being insensitive and knows that she has to respect my wishes and will do whatever I want her to do in terms of contacting/hanging out with her friends.

 

lkjh: The OM did contact her, after she left he kept calling and emailing. After she did not respond to him he stopped after the first day. He did threaten her. I told her to keep that email in case anything ever comes up in a legal sense.

[PegNosePete]

She actually apologized last night for brining up going out with her girlfriend this weekend. She said she was sorry for being insensitive and knows that she has to respect my wishes and will do whatever I want her to do in terms of contacting/hanging out with her friends.

Just remember you want action, not words. She shouldn't just be respecting your wishes, it should be her wish as well. It shouldn't be you laying down the law, telling her what she can and can't do... she should understand herself too, and be making and sticking to the rules herself. She does seem to be in cover-up mode but I guess only time will tell.

 

Good luck tonight dude. Just DO NOT let her gaslight or blameshift!!!

[Surfer203]

Thanks PegNosePete - I understand. I appreciate all of your help and insights along the way.

 

You know.. even if I am not doing what most of you think I should be doing. I really apprecaite all of the support and kind words through out this process. If nothing more you all helped me get through the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with in my life. Can't thank you all enough.

 

This is the last chance.. if things don't work out at least I will know we pushed it as far as we could, tried as hard as we could.

 

Will fill you in tomorrow on the MC session.

[Owl]

Some good advice and some excellent things that you need to keep in mind and consider, Surfer.

 

One thing to remember...most of the time, NC doesn't "stick" the first time. It normally seems to take a couple of attempts for the WS to get it in place, and get the OM/OW "out of their system".

 

Be ready to deal with this as a possibility...either by making the choice to end any kind of reconciliation attempts or by shoring up your boundaries and letting your wife suffer some serious consequences for violating them.

 

Make it very, very clear to her that you're NOT willing to play games here.

 

Set a boundary, and have consequences in place for when/if its broken.

 

And frankly...watch your wife's behavior/attitudes like a hawk. Now that you've been through this, it'll be much easier to spot when/if she resumes contact. She'll go back to her "old ways". Distant from you, not willing to engage in emotional/relationship/recovery discussions, stop attending MC or not putting any effort into it. She might also suddenly go the other way too...suddenly happy and distracted. Just watch for CHANGES that don't make sense.

 

I don't think you're a fool for trying to reconcile...but it IS a risk, and so you need to do so CAUTIOUSLY.

[What_Next]

Surfer, it's YOUR marriage, it's YOUR wife, it's YOUR life. You have to live with the consequences of YOUR decisions. You of course realize that.

 

She wasn't insensitve to you for mentioning her plans with her "friends" she was testing the waters my friend. She is acting like a child when they push and push and see how far they can go before their hand gets slapped.

 

I sort of agree with PegNosePete and I sort of don't. Yes she should be setting her own boundaries and defining her own limits, but you must think about your own as well.

 

Owl is also very correct in terms of watching her behavior like a HAWK! I closely monitor all of Donewrong's actions and I will now be fully aware of red flags and not one single one will get past me without me determining the cause.

 

Regarding the re-contact of her OM. I would think Owl is correct as well, although in my case if it did EVER happen it's over, period. Once again that is my choice and I will live with the consequences of it.

 

Be prepared for tonight Surfer, be prepared.

[Surfer203]

Thanks guys. You can call me "The Hawk" from now on. I am watching now. I missed some red flags before she left and I kick myself in the ass for that now. This time will be different.

 

How do you guys feel about keyloggers on he computers and stuff like that? Is it pushing boundries too much or is it within my rights?

 

I agree any contact with the OM and it is done!

 

I am prepared for tonight, ready to go. I even dressed up today for some reason. Weird.. I don't know why.

[What_Next]

Some will agree with keyloggers, some won't. Donewrong knows that keyloggers might be present, or they might not be. See personally I feel as though if she had nothing to hide, then why should a keylogger be a problem? Heck I'd keylog my own computer if Donewrong asked.

 

I am fuzzy on how your wife's affair started to begin with. Donewrong initally met the person through the Internet, thus my insistence on keyloggers and used her phone, thus my insistence that her phone be open to me.

 

I'll say it again, if she has nothing to hide, then why would it bother her?

[PegNosePete]

I missed some red flags before she left and I kick myself in the ass for that now.

Nah don't kick yourself dude, we all miss them the first time, because we trusted her. In hindsight I can see loads of them in my situation too, but at the time I couldn't see them because I wasn't looking for them. Lesson learned though, next time I will spot them.

 

How do you guys feel about keyloggers on he computers and stuff like that? Is it pushing boundries too much or is it within my rights?

Your "rights" are anything the hell you want You are the aggrieved party here. So what you say, is the law. Some agree with keyloggers and some disagree, but I don't think anyone will disagree that whatever you want, goes. Personally I think it depends on how much she uses computers, what for, and how techy she is. As W_N says just the threat or the possibility that there is one, may be enough. Or if she met her OM through computers and knows more than you do about them, a complete ban of using a computer unaccompanied might be more relevant. It's up to you to draw the line.

[Owl]

Mrs. Owl knew that there was no expectation of privacy when it came to our computers or phones after d-day. Since her EA was predominately conducted using these, and that I "found out" via her computer, she knew that I'd continue to monitor what was going on that way.

 

It was how I discovered the renewed contact as a result of a "fishing email" from OM about a month later as well.

 

I'd say that you tell Mrs. Surfer that there is no expectation of privacy at this point, and that you WILL be snooping in whatever manner you feel is needed in order for you to verify that she is now acting in a trustworthy manner and trying to rebuild trust with you.

 

If she refuses to accept that...you have your answer already. Proceed to step #2.

 

This IS all about her rebuilding your trust and faith in her...or not.

[Surfer203]

Well.. she met him at a club in NYC. So.. computers were not involved. I am inclined to put a keylogger on just in case. Part of my does not want to be crazy though - part of me wants to sit back and see what happens. See if she trips up on her own or gives up. Keyloggers may be necessary, but so far I have not installed them. I will see where this goes and make a move from there.

 

MC tonight - woo hoo! Yeah right.. haha.

[Surfer203]

You know.. she has gotten phone calls from family and "real" (old - prior to this incident) friends.. and has not left the room while talking to them nor changed how she talked. I assume she did this to show me, "hey, I'm not hiding anything" - or maybe she does not want me to have to feel suspicious when she gets a call. Who knows, either way she seems on the right track but it is VERY early on.

[What_Next]

Surfer, I am happy to hear you on the right track.

 

The reality is though you are step 0.5 of a 1,000,000,000,000,000 journey....

 

I'm happy that you positive though, that is a good sign.

 

Be ready for the dips in the roller coaster though.

 

I hate to break it to you, but this is going to take a VERY long time to repair. My D-day was back at the end of August and I am on step 37...

[Surfer203]

What_Next: I know man.. I know. Ready for it though. If I didn't truly love this woman, I wouldn't be bothering with any of this s***. Thanks.