How to stay sane while wife is making decision?

[Surfer203]

Please comment.. I know I am blowing this way out of proportion. Maybe I'm not? I just need some support right now, badly. What should I do to stay positive and happy in the midst of all this nonsense?!

[jstobo]

Wow surfer, I can't believe the week you decided to come on here and update things, something gets derailed. There are good therapists and really bad therapists. I'm not sure what kind your Wife has. But there is obviously something your Wife is saying to the therapist that has caused her to have this viewpoint. My guess is, your Wife is afraid to tell you whatever that is. I'm sure you've had conversations with your Wife about this ad nauseam. But if you haven't asked why your Wife feels the therapist thinks this way, you should ask. Just because the therapist feels your wife isn't happy does not mean your Wife isn't happy with you. She could still be struggling to find what makes her happy outside of you. It's very possible that having space and going out with friends isn't making her happy. She could be searching for her identity. Her legacy in life. Some women love to have a great Wife or stay at home Mom as their identity. Some women feel like they want to have a career as their identity. This goes for men as well. Your Wife could simply be struggling with who she is. If someone asks her, how do you want people to know you as, she may struggle with the answer. My W doesn't want to just be know as my Wife and Kids Mom. She wants to known for something else. Her separate identity from Wife and Mom. I don't know enough about your situation to be giving advice, that's just what's coming to head with what I do know.

[Surfer203]

jstobo: I don't think her therapist is necessarily a bad therapist. I just think that her "opinions" could push my wife mentally to places that she is not. I know my wife is smart and strong willed but I could see this making a difference - maybe it wont'.

 

I know what you are saying - my wife tries to be perfect to feel better about past guilt/shame whatever from her youth. I can identify with a wife who wants more for herself, believe me.

[Owl]

Here's the thing to remember...

 

A MARRIAGE counselor is interested in maintaining and preserving the marriage...or ending it if it's not viable.

 

An INDIVIDUAL counselor has a direct, point blank focus ONLY on the individual in front of them. They don't see the big picture of the marriage, they base their interpretations of the data only off the information provided by the person in front of them...and they have no interest at all in helping that individual work through maintaining or rebuilding the marriage.

 

It's VERY common for an IC to provide advice/support that is contrary to advice given by an MC...and very common for an IC to in fact provide "support" that is highly detrimental to the marriage.

 

My suggestion...tell your wife to table her concerns over this issue until the two of you can take it back to the marriage counselor for discussion. Longer term, she should consider dropping her IC in favor of maintaining IC, for the reasons I suggest here.

[Surfer203]

Owl.. I am TOTALLY with you.

 

You are absolutely F***ing right! I need to tell my wife this in a constructive and supportive manner. It feels like she is sabotaged us with her advice. Every one that I have asked was confused as to why her IC is not letting her form her own opinions, most say the therapist should NOT give advice or throw out potential ideas. Stirring up s*** for no reaosn. So upsetting. How do I tell my wife with out her think I am just trying to manipulate her?

 

Things were going great - this is such an annoying thing to have arisen. Hopefully just a bump in the road and we will move past this. Thanks Owl.

 

Heartbroke Kid.. I will read that thread now! thanks!

[Owl]

Have her read your thread.

 

Have her discuss it with your MC.

 

If she's still accusing or suspecting you of being manipulative when you're trying to save your marriage...she needs to take a step back and relook at things.

 

At this point, she either needs to be totally on board with the idea of reconciliation, or she's potentially not ever truly going to be trustworthy enough to be viable marriage material.

 

She should give up the worry about you trying to manipulate her...she should realize that you're fighting to save your marraige to her. If she's not trusting that you're trying to do the best for both of you...there's a big problem in this mix somewhere.

 

That's my thought.

[Surfer203]

Owl.. I am with you. She did not accuse me of manipulating her.. I just don't want her to get that impression and make things worse.. make her want to leave again. She promised to just live and see how things go, no rash decisions.

 

I am with you though man.. I don't want to go too over board here.. probably just blowing this out of proportion. She is saying the therapist COULD be right but she does not know. I am acting as if she has already said goodbye. Stupid.

 

Time to man up and tell her how I feel.

 

I have spoken to a few people about this and they all think the IC is not being helpful.. a good therapist listens and makes YOU do the thinking for yourself and come to your own conclusions. I think this lady is a stupid f***.

[Surfer203]

Do you really think it would be helpful for my wife to read my thread? What is the benefit in this situation?

[Surfer203]

I just don't believe that nonsense. My wife stopped by work last Friday with a nice Frappucino and a sweet card saying that she missed me and loved me... and I see her every night and weekend! Come on ! People who are unhappy in their marriage do NOT do that.

[What_Next]

Tough call Surfer.

 

I brought mine to read my thread. It was a double edged sword. She then got involved with LS, which ultimately ended up badly.

 

However, she was shocked when she read just what I was going through, she said my love for her almost lept off the page. On the flip side she disagreed with some of what I wrote.

 

Ultimately it might create a "me versus them" sort of vibe. I can imagine what her IC might say also, so in my opinion it might not be the right time.

 

Bloody therapists (yes this is my own personal bias). The good ones can do some amazing things and the bad ones can do as much damage.

[Surfer203]

I hear you.. I am not so sure I want her reading it quite yet.. not until we are out of the woodwork. But maybe it will just bring her back to the BS. Hmm..

 

Anyway, I agree regarding the therapists.. just because you have a diploma on your wall and does not mean you know everything. I think my wife takes her words as absolute truth but she is too smart to believe everything others say.

 

We'll see how this goes.

[change]

Tough call Surfer.

 

I brought mine to read my thread. It was a double edged sword. She then got involved with LS, which ultimately ended up badly.

 

However, she was shocked when she read just what I was going through, she said my love for her almost lept off the page. On the flip side she disagreed with some of what I wrote.

 

Ultimately it might create a "me versus them" sort of vibe. I can imagine what her IC might say also, so in my opinion it might not be the right time.

 

Bloody therapists (yes this is my own personal bias). The good ones can do some amazing things and the bad ones can do as much damage.

 

My stbxw and I were in MC until her IC and her worked out that she didn't want that. Now my stbxw is coming after me for everything, and using analogies quoted from her therapist to justify it. I haven't heard a word about why our marriage isn't worth saving and why she wants out and why I'm so horrible that hasn't been direct quotes from her therapist -- whom she now runs ALL of her decisions about us past, and then quotes to me as she explains her decrees.

 

I don't know that that's where youre situation will go at all. But EYES WIDE OPEN. Some therapists are great. Others... give out lots of advice and seem to tell their patients what to do.

 

My stbbxw's therapist seems to have a clear intention of ending the marriage because she has decided that my stbxw needs to find herself in the single life. I'm never sure that my wife would have gotten there since we were doing so well and communicating so openly during the separation... without the therapist. The therapist seems to be one of the biggest road blocks to reconciliation, because every time my stbxw sees her, she comes up with new -- and now less and less reasonable -- things to be mad at me for. Her IC has NO interest in saving the marriage. My stbxw doesn't either right now, although when she started seeing the IC, she still did.

 

Food for thought.

[Surfer203]

change: I think we may be heading down that road if her therapy sessions continue. My wife said "if you have such a problem with what she is saying, do you want to take to her yourself?" I kind of do! I would rather tell her why I am annoyed rather than channel it through my wife.

 

I hope this does not lead down that path.

[What_Next]

Surfer, for heavens sake DO NOT get roped into that. Talking to her IC can only lead to a nasty result. As much as I think most therapists are full of ____ they can be masters at verbal manipulation, at twisting ones words.

 

On the same front pulling in the opposite direction with all your might will make it seem like you have an axe to grind.

 

Be stern and open with your wife. Tell her you don't agree with her IC. Let her know the choice is hers but you WILL NOT ever again be left in limbo by any woman. Either she is 100000000000000% commited to the marriage or she isn't. There is no middle ground. Period.

 

Now of course you know me well enough to know that you should use a slightly milder approach then what I am typing, but the message needs to be clear as a piece of the finest crystal.

 

Your wife needs to realize that she isn't some piece of clay to be molded and shaped. She is a fully grown woman with her own mind.

 

Keep us posted, use us as a sounding board. As always I wish you the best.

[sumdude]

Only advice I can think of is keep your cool! Be a rock. May not feel easy, you're being tested right now. Can't turn this into "me vs. the therapist". Through your actions and strength make it clear that you are the best option and know it. This is not the time to get freaked and needy. Act like everything is fine. Don't bring it up again, if your wife does mostly just listen. A time will come when you might have to lay down the lines firmly, coolly and calmly. Whatever your wife chooses you will be OK.

Edited May 13, 2011 by sumdude

[Steadfast]

Be it a friend, family member, therapist or president of the United States, if If someone is weak-willed enough to allow control over their decisions or emotions they're as good as gone anyway. Think about it; if you don't like what they're saying, you just keep looking until you find one that says what you want to hear. Like religion. Truth is secondary over honor and honesty.

 

It's a coin toss with 'professionals'. 'Nuff said.

 

Surfer, time to find your big boy pants and put them back on. Take a deep breath, re-affirm yourself and realize that hoping, being nice, walking on eggshells or otherwise living in fear of something destroying your fragile marriage is no life at all. Is it any wonder why so many find it so hard to reconcile? Word of warning to all; step into the 'bad marriage' arena and there is no easy way out. It does not matter what you decide to do.

 

Real love is not that complicated folks. If someone can be talked into it, they can be talked out. True love is not fazed by such nonsense.

[Surfer203]

Thanks for the advice guys!

 

What_Next: I think she knows she is capable of making up her own mind. I am just sickened that the therapist made that statement. Bulls***. I will refrain from talking to her therapist unless she keeps pushing that point to my wife.

 

sumdude: I will try to be the biggest MAN I can. Haha.. when times are tough we all get weak, but I think I need to remain strong and be the person she respects and loves.

 

I will keep updating.. love all of my friends here at LS- appreciate all of the advice once again.

[Owl]

My last bit of advice for you before the weekend is to remember not to be afraid.

 

Make it clear to your wife that IF she chooses to believe and follow what this therapist suggests, and decides that this marriage isn't what she needs...you will survive and thrive.

 

Make it clear that you love her, that you want her...but if she doesn't want to be with you any longer, you don't need her, and will survive without her.

 

Trust me...NEEDING her isn't what she wants to see, even if she says that's what she wants. What she wants is to have a man who is strong enough to fight for her, and then go on without her if he has to. Women can't love a man they can't respect, and they can't respect a man who NEEDS her. They can respect one who wants her, who desires a life with her, but not one who can't live without her.

 

Give it some thought.

[Surfer203]

Steadfast: I hear you completely. You are right.. time to be a big boy.. haha. Will do my best.

[hydin]

Going through same situation with my stbx. She said she would do counseling twice only to see her counselor and change her mind after the appt. Third time she admitted she could not tell our kids she did everything she could to save the marriage and said she would go to counseling... then she saw her counselor 3 days later and said it was over, no chance to reconcile... I set up a meeting with a collaborative divorce counselor who was suppose to be telling us the process but spent 90 minutes asking my stbx why she wanted a divorce... we did not sound like most people who divorce. That independent counselor asked us to wait 3 weeks to do anything about the divorce and not to hire lawyers. No relationship talk either, just time to cool things down. That was a Monday, on Friday my stbx went to the first lawyer who would take her and waited while the divorce was filed... Oh and she saw her counselor that Thursday.... Hmmmmm. Now she makes no decisions unless the counselor (an older female) gives her advice. Watch out for the counselor...

[Surfer203]

Yeah.. luckily my wife has also decided that the therapist is off base with this one. We had a long talk.. her best friend, my friends and family all think her therapist is making wrong observations.

 

However, it is still confusing my wife and making her think. Next session she has, she is going to tell her how wrong she was and how much it upset me. Personally, I feel the therapist is trying to churn s*** up to keep her there.

 

Feeling pretty low the past week or so. I am not quite as confident anymore.. I was until this stuff came up, seems like it shook some things in her head up. We will see what happens. Trying to keep it together.

[change]

Going through same situation with my stbx. She said she would do counseling twice only to see her counselor and change her mind after the appt. Third time she admitted she could not tell our kids she did everything she could to save the marriage and said she would go to counseling... then she saw her counselor 3 days later and said it was over, no chance to reconcile... I set up a meeting with a collaborative divorce counselor who was suppose to be telling us the process but spent 90 minutes asking my stbx why she wanted a divorce... we did not sound like most people who divorce. That independent counselor asked us to wait 3 weeks to do anything about the divorce and not to hire lawyers. No relationship talk either, just time to cool things down. That was a Monday, on Friday my stbx went to the first lawyer who would take her and waited while the divorce was filed... Oh and she saw her counselor that Thursday.... Hmmmmm. Now she makes no decisions unless the counselor (an older female) gives her advice. Watch out for the counselor...

 

Good lord, this sounds so much like my stbxw. We're not divorced yet, but we're absolutely headed that way (separation, she's dating other people at the suggestion of her counselor). I hope my situation doesn't end up like yours.

 

Yes, beware the IC that is too willing to give out advice. That should never be the role of a counselor, from what I understand.

[change]

My last bit of advice for you before the weekend is to remember not to be afraid.

 

Make it clear to your wife that IF she chooses to believe and follow what this therapist suggests, and decides that this marriage isn't what she needs...you will survive and thrive.

 

Make it clear that you love her, that you want her...but if she doesn't want to be with you any longer, you don't need her, and will survive without her.

 

Trust me...NEEDING her isn't what she wants to see, even if she says that's what she wants. What she wants is to have a man who is strong enough to fight for her, and then go on without her if he has to. Women can't love a man they can't respect, and they can't respect a man who NEEDS her. They can respect one who wants her, who desires a life with her, but not one who can't live without her.

 

Give it some thought.

 

This is SO TRUE.

 

I'm considering printing this out and pinning it on my wall. It's what I need to see, hear and breathe every day. Need vs. want. Powerful concepts.

[Surfer203]

Well, here is where we are at now:

 

Wife and I discussed this.. discussed with friends/family. We ALL think my wife's therapist is out of line and wrong. Still, my wife says she is a bit confused and does not think she is unhappy. I think the therapist stirred something up anyway.

 

We fought a lot this weekend, that got me set off plus we are hanging out with friends more - she is more social and has been getting out more - I am trying my best to as well but she is going out more. It is healthy to spend time separately and enjoy life outside of the marriage, I believe that. Still - I have jealousy and it turns into a fight. I need to control that more.

 

My wife and I were back on the let's have kids train. We have decided to hold off on that. My wife just "wants to make me happy" - she does want kids but was rushing for my sake. So, we talked about that and that is on hold.

 

Honestly, I thought everything was good - but I am starting to see some cracks. Could be my paranoia, I am not sure at this point. Going to stand my ground and keep my eyes open.

[debtman]

Not sure I should be giving advice about jealousy...maybe some more jealousy on my part would have kept my stbx from getting so close to OM and deciding our M was over...but I don't think so. I think, if anything, it would have made her more anxious to leave.

 

I've always looked at it this way, I've got my friends, hobbies and interests and I enjoy spending time pursuing those...but I always came home to her...and I was always faithful. I always encouraged her to go out and pursue her own interests, find her own friends, etc. and was always glad when she found things she was passionate about and wanted to spend time doing.

 

I "felt" jealousy once and a while, but I recognized it for what it was and didn't give any relevance to it...as long as she was coming home to me. Even when she started "dating" OM, I trusted that she was going to make the "right" decision for our relationship and our family...turns out I was wrong in trusting her decision making, but, I don't think that being jealous would have made anything better and it would have just driven me crazy...

 

I think your resolve to "stand my ground and keep my eyes open" is the best thing you can do right now...

 

Good luck and keep posting...