How to stay sane while wife is making decision?

[FreeNow]

I am a good guy, huge heart and all I want out of life is to love and be loved in return.

 

Yes, you are. If you weren't, she couldn't push you this far and use you like she has. Your motives are honest and benevolent.

 

Pray for me.

Will do. I'm sure many will be praying for you.

[GorillaTheater]

The only reason why a woman would be that disrespectful, is because she chooses to, not because of what he's doing. Women and men will do as they please, whether their spouse "has boundaries" or not. If she "loses" respect for her man it is because she never respected him in the first place. A woman's view of her man is not the be all and end all of the generality of relationships. A woman does not hold all of the cards. I stand up for myself because I love myself, not necessarily for another woman.

 

Wrong. Failing to respect yourself encourages disrespect from others, including wives. Yes, people will do what they want to do, but within a relationship with boundaries they'll change how they do things if they want to stay in the relationship. I believe in getting to rejection quickly. If Surfer establishes boundaries, and his wife chooses to ignore them, then she's made her choice regarding the relationship and Surfer can move on.

 

 

 

It's wrong so that's not how "things just work." Relationships fail because of the people in them, not the circumstances surrounding them.

 

That's not an argument against my position. I said nothing about surrounding circumstances. I'm arguing human nature and taking responsibility for one's own actions and effectively interacting with another person. Frankly, you've demonstrated little ability to interact effectively with people on this board. Whether you're like that IRL I can't say, but it explain why you apparently have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

 

 

That's a stereotype.

 

Then that woman is immature and is not good relationship material if all you're going to do is disrespect someone.

 

Been around women much? The main emotional need for most wives is security. One way they guage their level of security is, consciously or not, is to test their husband's response to crappy behavior on their part. Men engage in crappy behavior just as much if not more, but it's not generally to test the relationship, but rather because to varying degrees we're a**holes.

 

 

 

Stereotype.

 

So you say. See above.

 

The marriage has already been destroyed and it keeps getting pissed on by his wife. If she wanted to restore it to a considerable level, she would get right to it and change her behavior. But she won't do that and she's been showing that to him every single day.

 

So he needs to start thinking about himself for now.

 

Of course he needs to think about himself now. He needs to do that regardless. But if he wants to save his marriage, he has to put a stop to her walking all over him. Do you disagree?

 

That's warped. You can't gain respect from someone who cheated, who has no respect for themselves.

 

Warped? LOL, is that anything like "retarded"? Divorced people do this all the time , especially when minor children are involved. When the X starts some sh*t, you shut it down effectively and eventually the sh*t tapers off to a managable level. Because the offender knows they can't get away with it. And that, my friend , is respect.

 

Yet you said in a previous quote that he must "man up" in order to save his marriage. Now all of a sudden it's whether the marriage is saved or not, when clearly the marriage is not going to be saved.

 

If you see contradiction here, it's on you.

 

If Surfer's wife gets her act together, would you still want Surfer to get a divorce? If so, why?

[GorillaTheater]

I am just sick of being disrespected and I DEMAND better for myself. I deserve it

 

Damn right. And whatever happens, you can handle it.

[GorillaTheater]

I don't know about you, but I can debate this all for as long as you'd like. I have nothing but time.

 

Yeah, I gather that you have alot of times on your hands. Apparently more than me, and I'll save mine for more useful endeavors.

[findingmeagain]

People gain respect, you don't just automatically have it at the beginning. And in the same boat people can lose your respect. Hell I am starting to lose respect for Surfer because he is sitting on his a$$ bitching daily (for months) about his situation and how badly his W is treating him....all the while he is paying for her nights out, while she sits there playing games all night and he is letting her control a situation that HE should be in control of.

 

It's a pet hate of mine people who b!tch about a situation and yet do nothing to change it.

 

I am a woman and YES we want a man who is confident, secure, can take charge and be strong. In your scenario Surfer I think you both are equally to blame for the way things are going!!!

[trippi1432]

Been trying to catch up as this thread has been moving pretty fast since yesterday...just a note about Boundaries since that has been going around a lot. Boundaries are not something that we do to hold another person "hostage" against their will. Humanity is about free will, morals are about what people will do and how they act.

 

Personal boundaries are about taking responsibility for ourselves and not allowing someone to affect us negatively. They make us responsible for ourselves and what we put up with without negatively affecting someone else's boundaries. It's not about imposing our will on someone else to say "Woman, come to bed when I do or you are not a good wife.". And they are not setting circumstances if the kitchen isn't clean or the house isn't picked up or you have to stop being who you are and be my wife. They are not about man, mow the yard today and fix the front door or you are not living up to my expectations therefore I do not respect you. Boundaries are not sexist, they are not caveman/cavewoman mentalities.

 

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/What_Are_Boundaries_And_Why_Are_We_So_Messed_Up_If_We_Don_t_Have_Them.html

 

Just my 2 cents...pound away.

[GorillaTheater]

Personal boundaries are about taking responsibility for ourselves and not allowing someone to affect us negatively. They make us responsible for ourselves and what we put up with without negatively affecting someone else's boundaries. It's not about imposing our will on someone else to say "Woman, come to bed when I do or you are not a good wife.". And they are not setting circumstances if the kitchen isn't clean or the house isn't picked up or you have to stop being who you are and be my wife. They are not about man, mow the yard today and fix the front door or you are not living up to my expectations therefore I do not respect you. Boundaries are not sexist, they are not caveman/cavewoman mentalities.

 

Entirely agree. When I use the term "boundary", it's generally in terms of how another person treats me and talks to me. Disrespect doesn't have to be dealt with harshly. In fact, the best way of dealing with it in all but the most serious situations is with a wry smile and humor. BUT, it does have to be dealt with.

[2sunny]

Been trying to catch up as this thread has been moving pretty fast since yesterday...just a note about Boundaries since that has been going around a lot. Boundaries are not something that we do to hold another person "hostage" against their will. Humanity is about free will, morals are about what people will do and how they act.

 

Personal boundaries are about taking responsibility for ourselves and not allowing someone to affect us negatively. They make us responsible for ourselves and what we put up with without negatively affecting someone else's boundaries. It's not about imposing our will on someone else to say "Woman, come to bed when I do or you are not a good wife.". And they are not setting circumstances if the kitchen isn't clean or the house isn't picked up or you have to stop being who you are and be my wife. They are not about man, mow the yard today and fix the front door or you are not living up to my expectations therefore I do not respect you. Boundaries are not sexist, they are not caveman/cavewoman mentalities.

 

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/What_Are_Boundaries_And_Why_Are_We_So_Messed_Up_If_We_Don_t_Have_Them.html

 

Just my 2 cents...pound away.

 

very true. and my life started changing for the better when i started respecting MYSELF enough to recognize when it was time to tell the toxic people in my life to leave.

 

yep - it was simple... "hmmm, you acting like THAT does not work for ME... there's the door... it's time for you to leave now". or - "i'm not answering your calls/emails/ texts because your empty promises and words mean nothing = so there's no sense in wasting MY time even considering what you may need to lie about. when YOU show with ACTION and EVIDENCE that everything is changing in your life - including that nasty attitude - and that change lasts a GOOD LONG time - i MAY start to believe you have intentions of becoming a decent person... in the meantime - stay away."

 

that's all it took/takes for me to stand firm on MY boundary that works for me.

 

try it out - it works!

[trippi1432]

Let's try another approach since boundaries seems to still be a topic on how the "I" perspective is viewed.

 

How many times is it easy to write the story as a victim? Very easy in most cases...write an experience where you felt you were the victim...once you finish that exercise...rewrite the story where you take personal responsibility for your actions....are you still the victim? Rewrite it again until you really take responsibility for your part.

 

I'm going to use one example from Surfers thread....she should stop staying up late and go to bed when I do...it's rude to come to bed later as she wakes me up.

 

Victim: I need my rest and when she is not in the bed with me I cannot sleep. Even worse, I hear things going on in the other room and the noise disturbs me. Then later, she comes in and goes to bed at all hours of the night disturbing my rest. I go to work the next day and I am dog tired because I couldn't get a good night's sleep and here she is doing God knows what all day. (anxiety and worry)

 

Personal Responsibility: I work all day, my wife doesn't and stays up late, therefore we have different bedtimes. She tends to stay up late doing things that interest her and I go to bed because I know me and my body and what I need for rest. Lately, I have taken to fretting that she does not spend that time with me when we are resting as I have this feeling that she should be there with me. I have good reason to as she had an affair and I am working on my own trust issues around that. Those feelings are within me to work out as I took her back and am wanting us to survive this and move forward. However, I am the one fretting, I am the one feeling put out and I am the one having the issues because I was hurt. I take responsibility that I have made demands of full disclosure, I take responsibility for my own trust issues and I take responsibility that my worry is something that I cause myself. I can either continue to allow it to bother me or I can control my own emotions and find other ways that she is trying instead of making this a deal-breaker. I cannot control what someone else does, they will do what they do because they have free will. They will respect what they want to respect and I will continue to be just who I am, worthy of respect. I take responsibility for my own emotions and in that I realize that these are my emotions. It's not a line in the sand that she bends to my will...it's about me disengaging from my own insecurities that she does not do as I wish she would.

 

I brought this one up for a good reason..maybe even a selfish one as my first exH cheated on me many times and would be gone for days at a time leaving me to wonder about our relationship....the farther backward you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see....I have a strong affinity to the closeness you are seeking Surfer and understand where you are coming from. I didn't understand it at the time when it affected my second husband...I needed that one thing as I put an importance on that bond. I would wake in the middle of the night to find that my husband had fallen asleep in front of the TV watching ESPN..(ha ha...you men do not even need to comment on that or I will challenge you on DVR'ing The Voice ).

 

Ultimately..what I wanted of him was what he wanted of me in the end...get to the same page. We both realized too late and he found it with someone else.

[Surfer203]

Thanks everyone for the comments. Lots of BS going on in this thread too now, haha. I don't mind it.

 

I have to say.. you all make a lot of sense.. for me there is some sort of disconnect with taking this great advice and putting it in to practice. I don't know why, I really don't.

 

I don't think imposing boundaries is cave man like in anyway. Considering what my wife did.. if she did not do anything and things were normal and fine. I would be a chauvinistic person if I told her what, when and how to do things. That is not me.. maybe that is why I have such a hard time laying down the law. She NEEDS guidelines.. she is acting like a kid again. I just need to lay down the law in a way I am comfortable with. I need results though, so maybe I have to do things the opposite way that I normally would.

 

Going to be a s*** weekend I think but I will try to make the best of it. Going to surf tomorrow and have a family party on Sunday.

 

Thanks again - I consider you all my friends, I wish I could meet most of you. (Haha) I owe a bunch of you a few rounds of drinks.

[findingmeagain]

If you stand up for yourself and stop letting her use you as a doormat and she happens to walk away.....you are better off without her hon, no matter how much it hurts at the time. You deserve a woman who wants to be with you as badly as you want to be with her, who is terrified of losing you also, and who will do whatever it takes to make you happy!! The best of luck with it all!!!

[turnera]

Right. Please don't look at this like you telling her what to do. It isn't.

 

It's you telling her what YOU are willing to LIVE WITH. It's no different than you would tell some guy renting a room from you: No loud parties, no disrespecting my bed time, no using my stuff without reimbursing me, etc. If you do, you're out.

 

With her, since you're married, you have to put it like this: This is what I require to be married to a woman: respect, acting like a wife (meaning sex, same bedtimes, no independent behavior, no untoward communicating with other men. If you can't be that kind of wife, then we need to make plans for you to leave, because I won't stay married to that woman. What's your decision?

[turnera]

Yup as always when one cannot back up what they say they back down.

Or they have respect for the OP and quit so as to not T/J their thread.

 

Not everyone thinks winning an argument is winning.

 

And, frankly, most people don't care. They just quit reading and skip the posts of people they see not letting go, posts like yours.

 

Can we please get back to helping OP?

[turnera]

She won't change. He already tried that approach many times and she refuses.

 

Surfer let her go.

People reach that level at different speeds, Mr.Harris. Some people have to put up with a whole lot more crap than others; some kick the cheater out the minute they find out. We have to respect that he needs to work through his conviction at his own speed.

 

I HAVE learned over the years, however, that such people often have to have the same thing repeated to them again and again, as it starts to build up a 'layer' inside their minds; when the time is right, they feel it; they get it. And it's often because someone is yet again on their thread, posting the same thing for the 10th time, and they can finally say 'You're right! I'm done! I deserve better!'

 

The only thing I'll add, Surfer, is that so many men like you think their world will suck once they let go of the toxic partner, but after a period of withdrawal and healing, they go back out and start dating again and do that slap-my-forehead moment and say 'Why did I wait so long? This life is the one I wanted!'

 

There IS happiness out there, and many many women just waiting to meet a good guy like you.

[2010_Sorry]

I think it was What_Next that jumped in and said how much it hurts to read all of this going on with you Surfer. I can't second that any more!

 

I remember when you came to LS last fall and I really had hopes that your wife understood what she did, how badly she hurt you and truly wanted to work on your relationship.

 

In reading about her behavior now, she has fallen back to her old ways. Is she ever going to change? Who knows... but you cannot continue allowing her to do this to you. It will kill you... it's killing you now!

 

She needs at least a year or two alone to deal with what she has done and set herself straight. It might sound drastic, but it's so true. Couples try to rush reconciliation after infidelity for the wrong reasons and it almost never works. The cheater needs to work on themselves, learn to recognize vulnerabilities in their relationships so they are better prepared in the future.... one or two months is not nearly long enough to embrace that.

 

I know you love her. It sounds so cliche, but you have to let her go so she can focus on herself, alone. If she chooses to start dating after you leave her, then she will only be delaying the inevitable and setting herself up for another failed relationship. Meanwhile, you will be miles ahead feeling good with yourself.

 

The only way that you guys can ever think about reconciliation is completely moving past this all.... healing on your own and being able to look back and see the positive without the pain. That could take years. If the timing is right, and you both take baby steps... then it can happen. But don't wait for it....

 

My heart goes out to you Surfer.... keep us all posted.

[Ballerfamily]

from my experience its simple:

 

once a cheater, not always a cheater...more then once, always a cheater

 

DIVORCE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!

 

 

same goes for a one time cheater...if there is not complete,complete, and honest effort to the max....either seperate and NC, or divorce immediately

 

 

I feel sorry for you surfer....and this is why most men will not take back a cheating wife...way to much grief and heartache...heal and move on....

 

 

Hey, whats to say down the road maybe...you can re-live together maybe....or re-marry....or better yet, enjoy life a single or marry someone that deserves you....

 

YOU CANT DO THIS, BECAUSE YOU CANT....welcome to days, months, years of personal torment

 

 

and someday she will really piss you off, and then you might do something you will regret..this is a dangerous situation...you will get it eventually

 

 

Surf, sh--- or get off the pot...live with it,or divorce, because she aint changing....she will now become a pro con artist and lull you in and out...ive been there...you dont want to go there... and thats the TRUTH..............

 

Plenty of beautiful, good, women out there if you need one....why not try the single life for awhile and heal your wounds...you are delaying the inevitable...you will become more and more angry and frustrated as time goes on...the woman you thought you married is gone...its hard, bro...been there...a time will come when she will make you sick to your stomache if she doesnt change, and you wont care at all bout not being there....its so liberating to be free of that torment... you will see

[BlindRage]

Hey Surfer,

 

So... how have things been going between you and Mrs. Surfer?

Edited June 26, 2011 by BlindRage

[PegNosePete]

How did she take your new approach to household finances? You did implement it, didn't you?

[Donewrong]

How did the weekend go Surfer?

[Empty man]

Very good advice

 

from my experience its simple:

 

once a cheater, not always a cheater...more then once, always a cheater

 

DIVORCE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!

 

 

same goes for a one time cheater...if there is not complete,complete, and honest effort to the max....either seperate and NC, or divorce immediately

 

 

I feel sorry for you surfer....and this is why most men will not take back a cheating wife...way to much grief and heartache...heal and move on....

 

 

Hey, whats to say down the road maybe...you can re-live together maybe....or re-marry....or better yet, enjoy life a single or marry someone that deserves you....

 

YOU CANT DO THIS, BECAUSE YOU CANT....welcome to days, months, years of personal torment

 

 

and someday she will really piss you off, and then you might do something you will regret..this is a dangerous situation...you will get it eventually

 

 

Surf, sh--- or get off the pot...live with it,or divorce, because she aint changing....she will now become a pro con artist and lull you in and out...ive been there...you dont want to go there... and thats the TRUTH..............

 

Plenty of beautiful, good, women out there if you need one....why not try the single life for awhile and heal your wounds...you are delaying the inevitable...you will become more and more angry and frustrated as time goes on...the woman you thought you married is gone...its hard, bro...been there...a time will come when she will make you sick to your stomache if she doesnt change, and you wont care at all bout not being there....its so liberating to be free of that torment... you will see

[Mz. Pixie]

How did she take your new approach to household finances? You did implement it, didn't you?

 

Yes, interested in how this went.

[Surfer203]

Well.. thanks for all of the comments, just got on here for the first time since Friday.

 

Weekend was okay.. had ups and downs. We surfed Saturday.. a string of events led to fighting... we got over this and had a nice day/night. Sunday we went to my little cousins HS graduation party. We had a fun time there as well.

 

While at the bar my wife got up and went to the bathroom, the female bartender quickly came over and was flirting with me.. upon seeing my wife walking back towards me she stopped talking to me almost instantly and walked away. It was nice to know that I am desireable.. a little bit of an ego-boost.

 

Anyway, we discussed finances.. we are in agreement that there needs to be a stricter budget in place. I have it mapped out, now for us to follow through with it. I will have no problem, let's see how she does with it.

 

Still, we are fighting - I didn't really get to have an ultimatum type of talk because we had some events going on this past weekend.. Thursday is my birthday - I would like to have a pleasant day and 4th of July weekend. After that I am thinking if there is no noticeable change, we are going to have a major talk. We had a small talk, my wife insists that she is TRYING and showing me EFFORT towards our relationship. My response is "why am I not feeling like you are then?" - she responded by being upset and angry. Typical.

 

All in all, even with the fighting, we both agreed it was a nice weekend and that we had fun. On the way home last night I got a speeding ticket, I was really upset about it, my wife rubbed my back while we were pulled over and was telling me it's okay and was trying to put me in a better mood. I don't know.. so many mixed signals still, much of them I am probably thinking about and over analyzing way too much.

 

Ohhhhh, Yeah! I told my wife that I believe her therapist may be ruining our marriage by leading her down mental "roads" and not addressing her issues with our marriage. She told me she would stop going to the therapist if I wanted, especially since I am bread winner, paying for her to see her. She says if I think the therapist is hindering us she will stop going.

[Owl]

So I'm going to state the obvious.

 

In other words...nothing at all has changed.

 

Surfer, point blank, I'm going to tell you what I think at this point.

 

Your wife is no longer in any way responsible for how unhappy you are with the state of your marriage.

 

You are. 100%.

 

You haven't changed anything. You're stuck in the rut of getting upset and then fighting over details, when you're flat out taking no action to change the real bottom line problems.

 

The biggest bottom line problem is that you don't face the bottom line problems. You avoid them.

 

By avoiding them, by not truly taking tangible action to change the situation...in my mind...you're agreeing to let the situation continue.

 

You're living right where you've chosen to be. Rather than fight that anymore, you should accept it.

 

I truly don't have any more advice for you. I hope things improve for you, my friend, I really do.

 

At this point...I wish you the best, and exit, stage left.

[Surfer203]

Fair enough and as always I do appreciate your help through out this ordeal. To be honest, I am trying to go about this in a way that I am comfortable with - nothing has changed, there are no tangible results. In my wife's opinion she is putting in effort to make things work, I really don't see it. I do want to give her the benefit of the doubt and let her get a job, see if some things start to shift.

 

One thing that confuses me is, she has made friends with some of my old friends and she is going to hang out with my (female) cousin on Wednesday for the first time ever. Why would some one who does not want to be married to me be integrating themselves into my life even further? I don't get it.

[Surfer203]

Mr. Harris.. no, 1 1/2 months since the problem came up this time. Have not been saying I am going to do something that whole time. Getting fed up now, and it is becoming the most likely path I will take.