How to stay sane while wife is making decision?

[What_Next]

I am not being naive, I just KIND OF trust her. I don't know. She knows bad things will happen if she cheats again - the dude who touches her won't be using his hands for a while.

 

With all due respect my friend, you ARE being naive.

 

Trust her (even sort of) are you kidding me? Given her behavior she deserves NO TRUST, not one single bit.

 

In my opinion she DOESN'T know that 'bad' things will happen if she cheats again. What were the consequences the first time around? You took her back without her changing her behavior, she still goes out when she wants, with who she wants on HER terms. She isn't working, etc. My friends this is bordering on willfull blindness.

 

Not saying she WILL cheat again, but you are not exactly setting ground rules to reduce the likelihood.

 

I fear you are traveling down a road that might lead you to some serious heart ache.

 

I hope and pray I am wrong though.

[Mz. Pixie]

Surfer-did you even read what I posted to you? You asked me specific questions and I answered them-and you didn't even address my reply.

 

Let me tell you something-I am in a unique position to help you-having been a wayward wife. I have posted here for years-but I haven't been posting here for a while. I came here a few days ago and found your post. I have been coming back to read your posts-basically. I have read and studied and posted on relationship forums for years in regards to infidelity. I have counseled friends through this. When I actively posted here my advice was much sought after.

 

I don't even really have time to come and post here-but I feel that there may be someone here that I can still help. It is way past my bedtime and here I am coming to read what you wrote-and you didn't answer me-which does not a happy Pixie make.

 

The reason we are all saying that your wife shouldn't be out acting like a single person is because she shouldn't. She's married. There are certain things you don't do all the time when you are married. Clubbing is one of them. I don't need to do it. The only reason one needs to club and dance and drink is to flirt with members of the opposite sex. Period. If I want to hang with my girlfriends I will shop or go to dinner or a movie. I could see a sports bar every now and then to watch a game with the guys or with the girls somewhere for a special event-but a regular event?? That is what single people do. The second reason I say it's a bad idea is that it's not respectful to my husband for me to be hanging out clubbing and flirting with other men. Even if I weren't interested-and it were harmless-it would still be disrespectful-because I in a way belong to him and I want to hold myself a bit separate for him. Which includes not dancing and flirting with guys or dressing in a way that would entice men. By respecting my husband I respect myself. His feelings come first- which your wife is not understanding or grasping. She is putting her feelings first. The last reason is because you shouldn't put yourself in a place of temptation. Your wife has proven by having an affair that she has poor boundaries. The last place that she needs to be-as a person with poor boundaries-is in a place where there is alcohol and a potential for other men to flirt with her. Especially when things are not rosy at home. It's just not a good idea to put yourself in the position to be tempted.

 

Your wife has done nothing to try to earn trust back. You have blindly given that back to her-which is a mistake. If she respected you she would be putting your feelings first and not even wanting to go anywhere that might make you uncomfortable. Not spouting off about how she doesn't want to have to answer to anyone.

 

I know. My husband's ex wife left him for the OM and was pregnant by the OM before their divorce was final. I was a wayward wife in my first marriage. Yet we fell in love and got married. Even though I had not cheated on him I went about making sure I did everything I could to show him he could trust me. Because he can. Thank God he trusts me-but I have earned it and never given him a reason to doubt me.

 

Single people don't have to answer to anyone. Married people are accountable to each other out of love and respect. It's not a chain-it's a vow. You're talking about a plate or glass put out or a towel when she stays out until four am???? Seriously????

 

If you don't want my advice or are not going to listen just tell me so that I don't waste my time-because this is certainly not my idea of fun. I am a stranger on the other end of this computer- who is taking time out of her very busy and stressful life with three kids-to try to help you. Others are doing the same. We want to help you but we want you to really try to listen to what we are saying.

[Surfer203]

Owl: Staying out that late is not acceptable and I have voiced that to her. I have told her that I want a mature relationship and if she wants to act like a kid still then this is not going to work out. On the other side of things, I think it is okay to go out but with moderation, I think that is an important aspect to every one's personal life.

 

WN: I told her last night I did not trust her and that became a whole big thing. I hope you are wrong too pal.

 

Mz. Pixie: I am sorry for not responding, some times the amount of advice I get here is overwhelming. I do read every single respsonse and I take it in, process it and think about it. I appreciate your time and efforts in posting them. I agree with you mostly.. I think it is okay for her to go out, extremely late is not acceptable to me, alone with a guy is unacceptable to me. She normally will go out with friends, while I shouldn't just trust them, it comforts me a bit. She is an adult and can make her own decisions. If she F***s up again then it is over. I am not going to go through this again and I do not want to smother her. I feel it is okay to give her some slack and allow her to have a social life outside of our marriage. The thing regarding putting out my cereal bowl and all that is subtle. These are normal married pepole things that we did, simple things for eachother to make the start to the day easier. She stopped doing these things for a while and now has began doing them again, maybe I read into things too much but to me that is a positive sign.

 

_____________________________________

 

Update: We were getting along really well last night, I came home to a clean house and she cooked dinner, which was very nice. After that we watched a movie, after the movie I went upstairs to get ready for bed.. I then proceeded to F*** up the night by going down and letting my paranoia get the best of me. I started another verbal fight and she said "is this how are lives are going to be?" - I told her I didn't trust her fully and I think she was hurt by that. Whatever though, I am hurt too - she deserves to hurt as well. My question is, why the hell do I keep doing this? I keep starting fights and being edgey. How do I stop doing this?!

[Surfer203]

Oh yeah.. and she was talking last night about a couple of places she is planning on applying for jobs at. Thank heavens.

[updown]

i think you still do this/ feel this way because she really hasn't had a single repercussion of her choice to cheat and leave. you trust her enough to stay out late at night, alone, with who knows who!! BUT, inside you don't!!! you're afraid of upsetting her or pissing her off, or losing her. YOU are the one acting like YOU did something wrong........ not the other way around.

 

regarding her feeling hurt that you don't trust her, who cares!! you shouldn't trust her and she needs to be the one EARNING YOUR trust back. this is why i said married women should not be out alone with a man. you say you're cool with it, but how do you ever come to trust someone again that is still acting like they can do whatever they want?

 

right now, you don't have a wife. you have a live in housekeeper, a roommate, a pal. even if you were having sex, then that would be just icing on the cake. but, if she is not standing before saying i will stop acting like a teenager again she's not really acting like a wife either.......

 

after my separation began i had a brief period of acting like i did when i was 18 again ( and brief i mean less than 6 months). in that time i was still never alone with a man. and i QUICKLY snapped out of it when i realized i'm not 18 anymore and i shouldn't be acting like i was. and i was separated! not working on saving a dying marriage!!!!

 

good luck!

 

 

 

Update: We were getting along really well last night, I came home to a clean house and she cooked dinner, which was very nice. After that we watched a movie, after the movie I went upstairs to get ready for bed.. I then proceeded to F*** up the night by going down and letting my paranoia get the best of me. I started another verbal fight and she said "is this how are lives are going to be?" - I told her I didn't trust her fully and I think she was hurt by that. Whatever though, I am hurt too - she deserves to hurt as well. My question is, why the hell do I keep doing this? I keep starting fights and being edgey. How do I stop doing this?!

[Surfer203]

I know.. I am trying to be assertive and be a MAN. It is a slow process for me, I think what happens is I flip out because I have not able to be assertive all along and it just ends up coming out in one furious outburst.

I have to stop doing that. I don't know when/if my wife will snap out of this, hoping soon. Maybe when she gets a job her priorities will shift again. Give her some structure, I think that really is part of the problem right now.

[Owl]

I know.. I am trying to be assertive and be a MAN. It is a slow process for me, I think what happens is I flip out because I have not able to be assertive all along and it just ends up coming out in one furious outburst.

I have to stop doing that. I don't know when/if my wife will snap out of this, hoping soon. Maybe when she gets a job her priorities will shift again. Give her some structure, I think that really is part of the problem right now.

 

Here's the problem, my friend.

 

Here's the crux of the issue.

 

Why should she "snap out of this"? What reason does she have, right now, this instant, to stop her destructive behaviors/actions?

 

What will "snapping out of it" improve in her life for her at this moment?

 

I ask, because it's a fundamental concept that people change for only one of two basic reasons...to get something they want, or to get away from something they don't like.

 

What does she gain, or what pain does she get away from, by making the change that you want her to make?

 

From where I sit...I understand that the two of you argue over this stuff...but it doesn't appear that the two of you RESOLVE OR AGREE ON CHANGES as a result of these arguments.

 

Another thought that I've raised before...I honestly think that she should ditch her IC, and the two of you need to seek out a good MC who can be a neutral third party for the two of you to work out these issues with.

 

Being insistent that change happen does not have to be a gradual process on your part. It's only gradual because you're still afraid of losing her. Your wife was willing to work on things when she was afraid of losing you. Now that the tables have turned back again...she's got all the power, and she's reverting back to her old mindset.

 

It's up to you my friend. I really don't have any other advice I can offer.

[Surfer203]

Owl: I see what you are saying.. I guess if she does NOT snap out of this she is going to lose me, her financial stability, her house, etc.

 

You are right we discuss but nothing gets resolved. It is frustrating. I am trying to be more assertive and aid to make a change in our relationshop.

 

I agree that she should ditch the IC, my wife insists that her therapist is helping her deal with issues stemming back before the problem we had, so I don't know where to go from here - I have voiced my opinion.

 

You are right, I am afraid of losing her and I guess I didn't want to push it too far but now I am getting to the point that I am annoyed and am not going to hold back much longer. You are also right about her being willing to work on things when she was afraid of losing me, now she has me and I guess she figures why should she bother now.

 

Thanks for your advice.

[Owl]

Here's where your problem lies.

 

You voice your opinion...but you don't insist and enforce change.

 

One is words...the other action.

 

Right now, you need action, not more words.

[Surfer203]

Owl: Agreed.. fully. I am working on it man.. I am not an assertive person and I have been working on being more assertive for years. Maybe this is the time to really test myself and enforce what I expect.

[Owl]

Owl: Agreed.. fully. I am working on it man.. I am not an assertive person and I have been working on being more assertive for years. Maybe this is the time to really test myself and enforce what I expect.

 

Per my signature.

 

Don't "work on it".

 

Do it.

[Surfer203]

That's the attitude.. now, only to make that happen for myself.

[What_Next]

Update: We were getting along really well last night, I came home to a clean house and she cooked dinner, which was very nice. After that we watched a movie, after the movie I went upstairs to get ready for bed.. I then proceeded to F*** up the night by going down and letting my paranoia get the best of me. I started another verbal fight and she said "is this how are lives are going to be?" - I told her I didn't trust her fully and I think she was hurt by that. Whatever though, I am hurt too - she deserves to hurt as well. My question is, why the hell do I keep doing this? I keep starting fights and being edgey. How do I stop doing this?!

 

Surfer, honestly bud, you frustrate me some days.... You told her you do not trust her and this surprised her? Oh come on. She had an affair. Trust, GONE, EVAPORATED, THING OF THE PAST. Gone. She will have to earn it.

 

You live your life day by day, heck sometimes hour by hour on her whims it seems. Life your own life, get independent.

 

You still seem to almost defend her desire to "go out" with her friends so much, why is that? Why can't you go with her?

 

Sorry bud but she is still acting like a single person in some aspects of her behavior.

 

You are playing a dangerous game.

[Surfer203]

WN: Sorry to frustrate you and anyone else on here. I am a very emotional person. Very in love with my wife, regardless of what she did. She was my whole world up until she left last time, I am really trying to venture out more on my own and get into to some things to make my life more complete by myself. I have realized that she can't be the center of my life.

 

So, with that.. I am TRYING my hardest to be more independent. I want to give her free space as well. We did not have that prior to her leaving me.. so, I think we both could use alone time. I am defending her going out in certain circumstances.. I do not approve of the late nights that's for sure.

 

I am taking steps though, trying to be more honest with her and myself. I hope the road I am on does not lead to more problems. I have learned a lot though and am finally feeling enough self respect to start implementing some of these ideas. The sadness was too much to bare after we started having problems again, I am really starting to feel better, happier regardless of what has been going on - starting to get some of my mental strength back. I knew it would take some time, but I think my head is on straight now.

[jstobo]

Hi Surfer - we have similar situations but I'm trying to reconcile after us moving apart. My W and I have very different languages of love. I recognized the differences years and years ago, but the separation has allowed me to figure out what her needs are. Her languages of love are me taking out the trash, taking the kids outside while she cooks, makes plans for dinner out every once in a while, wash the dog, fix that squeaky door. When I'm not doing those things, she gets depressed and withdrawals. She gets very quiet. My language of love is her coming over to the couch, sitting on my lap, giving me a kiss and telling me she loves me. When I don't get those things, I get frustrated, distant and will eventually blow up at her. In the end if I'm not filling her love tank with her needs, she has no desire to fill my love tank with my needs. That took me 13 years to figure out. UGH!! Now I'm hoping to get one more shot with her, now that I understand this. We'll see. I want to ask you something. The other night, she made you dinner and cleaned the house right. What happened that night for you to go upstairs, get upset, and come back down and start a fight?

[Memphis Raines]

Surfer, I think this has gone on long enough.

 

I think its time to make the decision for her, and start making your life better with her out of the picture completely.

[Surfer203]

jstobo: Yeah, sounds like we have pretty similar situations going. I don't know which is worse though! To me, living with this problem every day under my roof is very very hard. You almost have to act to get through the day, it gets hard.

 

My wife was playing Call of Duty on Xbox, she plays this game (no other video games though) - I got an Xbox around Christmas and she plays frequently with some of my friends, they all chat on the headset while they are playing. I was upstairs brushing my teeth and I heard her speaking quietly, or what I perceived as quietly. So I went down and a fury asking "why are you speaking so quietly, do you not want me to hear something?!" I was totally out of line. She was talking to one of my old best friends, nothing is going on with them but for some reason I freaked out. I think I freaked out based on everything that is going on, not her talking quietly and sounding sneaky to me.

 

___

 

Memphis, maybe you are right - I am not quite there yet though. I have a little more fight in me before I quit.

[What_Next]

Surfer, I think this has gone on long enough.

 

I think its time to make the decision for her, and start making your life better with her out of the picture completely.

 

Holy heck, I actually agree with something this poster has said. This might just mean the end of the world is coming...

 

I 100% agree. She is still fence sitting. Either get in or get out.

[jstobo]

My wife was playing Call of Duty on Xbox, she plays this game (no other video games though) - I got an Xbox around Christmas and she plays frequently with some of my friends, they all chat on the headset while they are playing. I was upstairs brushing my teeth and I heard her speaking quietly, or what I perceived as quietly. So I went down and a fury asking "why are you speaking so quietly, do you not want me to hear something?!" I was totally out of line. She was talking to one of my old best friends, nothing is going on with them but for some reason I freaked out. I think I freaked out based on everything that is going on, not her talking quietly and sounding sneaky to me.

 

Oh boy, sooooooo similar. My reaction would have been the same. We lived together for 5 months after D day and I would blow up if I heard her phone chirp multiple times. Let me guess, you were hoping she came upstairs with you to full around and she didn't. That got you down initially, so now your defenses are up. You hear her whispering and you go ballistic. I get it.

 

Back to my original post. What is your love language? What do you need from her to feel loved and appreciated? I told you what I need. What do you think she needs? I'm guessing she thinks she fills your love tank by cooking and cleaning the house. She did that, but unfortunately that doesn't fill yours does it? I'm also guessing that you didn't fill hers that night, so she didn't have a desire to go upstairs.

[Surfer203]

WN: I am getting close to agreeing with him.. just giving a little more time. After 8 years of marriage and 10 years of being together I do not want to quit just yet.

 

jstobo: Yeah.. haha close. I was trying to work my magic prior to me going to bed and it didn't happen. GOOD F'ING CALL MY FRIEND!

 

My love language is her feet behind her head. No seriously... haha I appreciate all of the housewife type of stuff, but love.. I just want to feel affection and warmth from her. Kisses, hugs and the occasional sweet comment. That's all I want from her.

[Donewrong]

Surfer..Oh Surfer. We have talked about this before and you know my situation and you have been given so much good advice on here.

 

Stop. Breath. Listen. Do.

 

Stop going a million miles a minute..slow down and listen to what people are telling you. Not only listen but DO! Worry about yourself and stop worrying about your fears of loosing her. If you don't start taking action and using some of the advice here you are going to loose her anyway!

 

She is your wife. She decided to leave you for another man. I know what you are saying about her feeling guilty and she's been hard on herself. I get that. I am still to this day hard on myself for what I did and that don't go away overnight but....I just don't see her making any efforts. She is the one that made the choice - NOT YOU! She needs to bend over backwards to gain any respect back from you. Going out all hours of the night clubbing with friends is not respect. It is disrespectful in a healthy marriage - in a relationship already struggling - it's shameful and selfish. You do not deserve to not sleep well because your worrying about her being out all night at the club. She deserves to be not sleeping well worrying about how to win your respect back. Plain and simple.

 

If she really wants the marriage to work she will sacrifice. She must sacrifice now. She do not have the luxury of going back to "normal". There is no "normal" for her now. She gave that luxury up when she decided to leave you. The fact of the matter is she lost your trust and she need not get angry or upset about that - she needs to get to work and do EVERYTHING to earn it back.

 

You need to make a list up of things she should be doing to EARN your respect back..make you feel more comfortable. Start with suggestions others have given on this post. Heck, list them on paper if that helps and go over them with her. Even ask her if she has anything to add to that list that might help.

 

I know for me...If WN had of said drive around the earth and back again to make him feel more comfortable - I would have - no questions asked and I'd still do it today and 10 years from now if it helps him.

 

If my email at work is down I will call WN from the office to give him that assurance that I am where I say I am. Now he didn't ask me to do that but it is something I want to do..I don't want to cause anymore hurt and worry for him. I don't delete my in/outbox on my phone. I leave them there at all times in case he would happen to want to see it - I don't want him to question why they are all deleted. I want to give him that piece of mind. I text him when I leave for work in the morning and I email him when I get in the office. I text him when I leave..and I tell him if I have to make stops and when I arrive home. This is not something I have to do - actually WN has said many times that I don't need to do that anymore. I still do it - It feels great to give him that bit of comfort, if that's what you'd call it.

 

One thing I guess that really bothers me..the clubbing...I was never into clubbing or maybe I'm just getting old. You are obiously not at ease with it...then she needs to correct it and make you more comfortable. It's not acceptable for a married person period.

 

Heaven's Surfer..make your list and stick to it.

1. Search for a job

2. Keep the house while she is not working (not a feminist thing - just paying her way while she is not working)

3. Meals to be made while she is not working(also not a feminist thing - just paying her way while she is not working)

4. Being completely open - passwords and complete phone and computer access

5. No more clubbing or like was mentioned before compromise...if she wants to go out clubbing..instad of going 3/7 nights..she goes out 1/7 and you go with her and she leaves with you.

6. tell her to read up on wayward spouses and damage it does to families and everyone involved. 7. Have her research reconcillition process after an affair. Is she doing any research on reconcilliations? Besides the councelling what else is she doing?

 

 

As your relationship changes and your needs change..your list will change too and that is OK. Why don't you ask her to make a list of things she could do to help you feel better and things that she needs. Let her have input..let her own it and make her stand behind it. Anything you need her to do..needs to be consistant. She don't slow down clubbing for a month and then it starts back up again. CONSISTANCY.

 

 

Honestly Surfer - you know how much I have been rooting for you. I have like many other have been behind you since day one. You need to stand up and say to her.. " I love you and I want to be with you but I learned when you left me I can be without you. I can survive without you. I dont want to - but I can. If you want to be with me then here are things that you need to do. If you can't do it I understand but I can't go further in this relationship." You need to stand tall and tell her that she has to make a choice now and follow through. Whatever choice she makes..your life will go on.

 

I feel horrible reading your posts Surfer. The pain just pours out of it. You starting fights is natural. You are angry and it has to come out at some point. The anger for what she did and I bet alot of anger for what she is not doing now. Stop worrying about loosing her if you put your foot down about things that she shouldn't be doing anyway such as clubbing all hours of the night. The risk that you will loose her is far greater if you don't say something. You have proved to her over and over again that you love her and that you want to be with her. Hell you took her back after she left. Enough said! Now she has to prove to you that she wants to be with you. Demand it - you do not deserve this treatment but unless you tell her what you expect - she won't know..hence the anger cycles back again. She is making it hard and you are making it much harder by not following through with the advice given.

 

 

I wish you all the best. We are all still in your corner of the ring in this battle of yours.

 

You know if you have any specific questions from my perspective..you know where I am. Any time.

 

Tough love Surfer - remember - Tough love works.

[What_Next]

There it is in black and white Surfer.

 

I'm a lucky guy to have her as my wife

[Donewrong]

There it is in black and white Surfer.

 

I'm a lucky guy to have her as my wife

 

No I'm lucky to have you as my husband!

[Owl]

Donewrong...thanks for backing up all the advice I've been trying to give.

 

My wife could have posted a lot of the same things you did as well. I really do wish the best for both you and W_N.

[Surfer203]

WN and DW - you guys are making me feel bad.. jealous of the effort you are both putting in. My wife is clearly not putting in this effort and it feels like sh**.

 

DoneWrong: The most important thing to take from your post is tough love. If I am going to be sticking it out and putting in effort, she needs to return that effort. I need to be firm with her, I know it. I am getting there, I really am. For me it has been a gradual process which I should probably fast track for the sake of my sanity. I really am exhausted.. tired of putting in all the effort. I am seeing small signs from her that she cares but to be honest it is not enough for me right now.. just not doing it for me. I think your list idea is a good one.. our MC before never gave excercises he sucked. He just listened and took our money. We are on the hunt for a better MC who can really guide us instead of just be present in our discussion. I think that is important. The lists will put it all out there in writing, plain to see. This is what is expected.. and I am with you on all of your points in that list. She should be doing all of those things based on her current lack of work. No brainer.. she was doing all of that up until about a month or so ago. Thanks so much DoneWrong, you always have good advice and always comforting.

 

Here we are at the weekend, let's see where this goes from here.