Accepting personal responsibility

[bentnotbroken]

And should the BS then also take time to consider what the OW/OM is going to feel and imagine what it would be like if it was done to you... and then if the BS still proceeds on with that action (trying to keep the marriage), s/he has chosen to act selfishly instead of selflessly?

 

There are two parallel relationships. Why is the OP asked to be more empathetic and selfless than the BS? Why is the OP judged harder than the BS if s/he tries to keep their relationship intact?

 

Both the BS and the OP are human beings in love with another human being. Why is more asked of the OP?

 

 

Marriage= 2 people. Affair partner third wheel until the WS leaves marriage. Selfish....damn straight.

[jennie-jennie]

It's her (the BS) marriage to begin with. OW just butted in on it. It's BS's marriage/relationship to keep, NOT the OW's. She (OW) is not entitled to it.

 

I'm not interested in the marriage. I'm interested in the man, and he belongs to himself.

 

Because the BS is the one who exchanged vows, put money into a wedding, takes care of the house, kids, ect. OW just waits on the sidelines and does virtually nothing except wait for MM to come be with her. I see what you are getting at, but as long as MM is still married, BS has got the rights to him, not the OW.

 

Again, a WS belongs to himself only.

 

Interesting, I was wondering the same thing. It's easy to betray someone who you feel is a bad person. What if BS was a very kind hearted, sweet woman who genuinly loved MM?

 

Exactly.

[desertIslandCactus]

I'm not interested in the marriage. I'm interested in the man, and he belongs to himself.

 

 

 

Again, a WS belongs to himself only.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

In marriage, the two belong to each other.

[jennie-jennie]

Marriage= 2 people. Affair partner third wheel until the WS leaves marriage. Selfish....damn straight.

 

So you are saying that because there is a marriage, empathy should be required of the OW, and because there is no marriage between the WS and the OW empathy should not be required of the BS? Interesting. That would mean that if the OW does not hold respect for the institution of marriage, then there is no reason for her to show empathy either.

[bentnotbroken]

So you are saying that because there is a marriage, empathy should be required of the OW, and because there is no marriage between the WS and the OW empathy should not be required of the BS? Interesting. That would mean that if the OW does not hold respect for the institution of marriage, then there is no reason for her to show empathy either.

 

As has been so aptly demonstrated by some.

[jennie-jennie]

In marriage, the two belong to each other.

 

If you believe in that, which I don't.

[jennie-jennie]

As has been so aptly demonstrated by some.

 

I am surprised though that the BS is not expected to show empathy towards another human being. The whole argument of empathy, which is so often stated here on LS, falls for me if it is not mutual.

[bentnotbroken]

I am surprised though that the BS is not expected to show empathy towards another human being. The whole argument of empathy, which is so often stated here on LS, falls for me if it is not mutual.

 

 

The fact that she(my personal situation) breaths is enough empathy for me.

[jennie-jennie]

The fact that she(my personal situation) breaths is enough empathy for me.

 

I can perfectly well understand that, bent. And that is true for me as an OW as well. That is exactly what I am getting at. Why would these women care about the romantic welfare of the relationship of another woman who loves the same man as herself?

 

Why be surprised that the OW doesn't care about the BS' marriage when the BS doesn't care about the OW's relationship?

 

Why is the OW expected to be more altruistic than the BS?

[fltc]

I accept no responsibility for my actions, I was the OM twice, once because I was misled about the marriage, once because the divorce was filed and she was merely waiting for it to become final.

 

I knew about the second situation and can't believe anyone was hurt.

 

The first situation? She was a cheat and a liar, looking back, I probably should have known but I was willing to believe her that her marriage was over, she even took me to her house to meet her kids! I have to believe her husband knew and I've sometimes suspected I was one of dozens of OM but it sure was fun while it lasted, she dumped me for another OM. <sigh>

[bentnotbroken]

I can perfectly well understand that, bent. And that is true for me as an OW as well. That is exactly what I am getting at. Why would these women care about the romantic welfare of the relationship of another woman who loves the same man as herself?

 

Why be surprised that the OW doesn't care about the BS' marriage when the BS doesn't care about the OW's relationship?

 

Why is the OW expected to be more altruistic than the BS?

 

 

I can only speak for the my situation and the ones I know of...love had jack to do with why they were the ow. In my situation, Mr. Messy was the next step up. My life wasn't being taken from me without a fight...and I am a damn good fighter. She could have him, but without all the perks and benefits I worked for. When they had the opportunity, neither of them wanted it.

 

It is clear that we won't agree. I believe marriage is sacred even if neither party acts that way. It is about disrespecting God and his view of marriage. You don't believe that, you won't see a wife's of view that does believe it. And I can honestly say with I probably will never see your view(or non view) of marriage.

[fooled once]

BB, I will concede that YOU, personally were manipulated and lied to.

 

But, whether the marriage is irreparably broken or not, most OW/OM WILLINGLY engage with a married partner. These MPs claim they are miserable, unhappy, unloved and unappreciated, but they are STILL MARRIED.

 

Many would NOT engage with a MP no matter the attraction, the flirting, the lies or manipulation.

 

There's a difference, don't you think?

 

So, if you choose to go that route, knowing your partner is miserably married, but STILL married, you have to personally accept the consequences of that decision: To engage in a relationship with an already committed (married) partner, IMHO.

 

I'd like to add to this. BB, I understand what you are saying, that the OW/OM is often manipulated into believing the marriage is "over". But as Spark says, it isn't really over, and the OW/OM knows this as well. (By really over, I mean the MM/MW is not divorced.)

 

So whether manipulated or not, the OW/OM is knowingly involved with a married person. That is a choice they are making while in the relationship. Are they attempting to bring the end more quickly? Possibly, possibly not. (My humble opinion is that if they love the MP they are attempting to bring the end of the current marriage, as they are invested in the future relationship, but that's only my opinion, I grant.)

 

The thing is, if they do "take responsibility" for their own actions, they must acknowledge that they did indeed know the person was married. They cannot then later claim hurt based upon lack of knowledge. Granted, their "knowledge" may not be completely accurate, as they were almost undoubtedly led to believe things that were not true (i.e. the marriage is over, she doesn't care what I do, etc.) the underlying base is that they did know they were involved with a married person. A person who had at least divided loyalties and at best was a lying schmuck .

 

There is an old saying that if you play with fire you're going to get burned. Personal responsibility (to me) means that when you've gotten burned you don't complain that the fire was hot. (and of course, I don't mean you personally) It's a given that the fire is hot. You may get lucky and be able to snatch the coals without getting scorched, but the odds are against you.

 

Great posts!

[Lauriebell82]

I can perfectly well understand that, bent. And that is true for me as an OW as well. That is exactly what I am getting at. Why would these women care about the romantic welfare of the relationship of another woman who loves the same man as herself?

 

Why be surprised that the OW doesn't care about the BS' marriage when the BS doesn't care about the OW's relationship?

 

Why is the OW expected to be more altruistic than the BS?

 

I agree that neither OW or BS hold much respect for one another. I think what you stated before that you don't agree with marriage vows, tells me that you use this as a way of justifying your A. That because you don't believe in the sanctity of marriage, then you have done nothing wrong and do not believe that you should be empathetic.

 

So I guess that those who are pro-marriage think that OW should have to feel empathy for the betrayal that MM has done to his W. However, if an OW doesn't see it as a betrayal or "broken vows" then she isn't going to be very empathetic because she feels she hasn't done anything to betray anyone.

 

Unfortunately, this argument could go and on and on as it has in this thread. OW and pro-marriage individuals are NEVER going to agree, basically it will just be us debating back and forth about who is right or wrong.

[whichwayisup]

Why be surprised that the OW doesn't care about the BS' marriage when the BS doesn't care about the OW's relationship?

 

Why is the OW expected to be more altruistic than the BS?

 

Agreeing to disagree here.

 

All I can say is, you're going to find alot more people who don't see your POV on this, especially the part I bolded. I know all this stems from your point of view of marriage, relationships, committments, monogamy etc.. So with that said, you see and believe things one way and many others see it another.

[jennie-jennie]

I can only speak for the my situation and the ones I know of...love had jack to do with why they were the ow. In my situation, Mr. Messy was the next step up. My life wasn't being taken from me without a fight...and I am a damn good fighter. She could have him, but without all the perks and benefits I worked for. When they had the opportunity, neither of them wanted it.

 

It is clear that we won't agree. I believe marriage is sacred even if neither party acts that way. It is about disrespecting God and his view of marriage. You don't believe that, you won't see a wife's of view that does believe it. And I can honestly say with I probably will never see your view(or non view) of marriage.

 

I respect that, bent. You hold your view of God and marriage, and I hold mine.

 

I'd never let my man go without a fight either whether I am the BS or the OW. I want the man I want, whatever position I hold.

[bentnotbroken]

I respect that, bent. You hold your view of God and marriage, and I hold mine.

 

I'd never let my man go without a fight either whether I am the BS or the OW. I want the man I want, whatever position I hold.

 

 

She could have the man:D. She wasn't getting my life.

[jennie-jennie]

I agree that neither OW or BS hold much respect for one another. I think what you stated before that you don't agree with marriage vows, tells me that you use this as a way of justifying your A. That because you don't believe in the sanctity of marriage, then you have done nothing wrong and do not believe that you should be empathetic.

 

Why do I never recognize what you say about me? I haven't spoken about respect, not about marriage vows, and not about justification of my relationship.

 

So I guess that those who are pro-marriage think that OW should have to feel empathy for the betrayal that MM has done to his W. However, if an OW doesn't see it as a betrayal or "broken vows" then she isn't going to be very empathetic because she feels she hasn't done anything to betray anyone.

 

Unfortunately, this argument could go and on and on as it has in this thread. OW and pro-marriage individuals are NEVER going to agree, basically it will just be us debating back and forth about who is right or wrong.

 

The argument that the OW should have empathy for the BS and back off is used so often on LS, that I feel the need to point out that if empathy was at all at play when it comes to love it should be mutual. Both the BS and the OW should show empathy for the other's pain in that case. So all BS who use this argument should consider whether they would be willing to do the same towards the OW/OM. Otherwise the argument falls on its own absurdity.

[jennie-jennie]

Agreeing to disagree here.

 

All I can say is, you're going to find alot more people who don't see your POV on this, especially the part I bolded. I know all this stems from your point of view of marriage, relationships, committments, monogamy etc.. So with that said, you see and believe things one way and many others see it another.

 

But you are agreeing with me that the BS doesn't care about the OW's relationship, right?

[jennie-jennie]

She could have the man:D. She wasn't getting my life.

 

I don't know about her, but I have my own life, thank you.

[whichwayisup]

But you are agreeing with me that the BS doesn't care about the OW's relationship, right?

 

I don't know of ANY BS who would "care" for her husband's affair (or as you call it relationship) partner, the OW. So, yes I am in agreement with you on that. And obviously the OW doesn't care about the BS or her marriage, if she did, she wouldn't be having an affair with a MM.

[whichwayisup]

The thing is JJ, he may be "your" man, but you aren't "his" woman. In the eyes of the law, and most people's eyes, his wife is "his" woman because they are married.

 

If she found out the truth, would you go to her and tell her she has a fight on her hands because he's "your" man? And you're going to fight it out with her? Just wondering.

[whichwayisup]

Both the BS and the OW should show empathy for the other's pain in that case.

 

Why? The OW knowingly went and had an affair with a MM and put herself in a situation that many times the OW loses out and gets hurt when MM decides he wants A over and goes home back to his wife. The OW in some sense, brought the pain, invited the pain into her life BY choosing to have an affair with a MM. Some BS's DO have abit empathy and sympathy for an OW because Mm lies, and manipulates, plays both sides.. And some BS's don't. It depends on the person (BS) and their situation.

[desertIslandCactus]

I don't know about her, but I have my own life, thank you.

 

I would think it impossible that you have your own life, if you would be spending it reaching into someone else's marriage and to covet.

 

Also I think you have mentioned before that he has had a relationship with God. Whether or not a person is walking with God, these illicit relationships take those involved, further from God.

[desertIslandCactus]

The thing is JJ, he may be "your" man, but you aren't "his" woman. In the eyes of the law, and most people's eyes, his wife is "his" woman because they are married.

 

If she found out the truth, would you go to her and tell her she has a fight on her hands because he's "your" man? And you're going to fight it out with her? Just wondering.

 

I think different gangs in the city, mark (graffiti) my building - as a gesture of declaring their 'territory'.

[whichwayisup]

I'm not interested in the marriage. I'm interested in the man, and he belongs to himself.

 

 

Again, a WS belongs to himself only.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

Yet you call him "my man". I'm just sayin'.

 

I think different gangs in the city, mark (graffiti) my building - as a gesture of declaring their 'territory'.

 

True.