Full of red flags, or simply tragic circumstances ?

[believed]

I´ve had a R to a MM that I´ve known for 10 years, but never looked upon as The Man. Due to certain circumstances it all exploded between us, and after the first shock, fear, feeling of guilt etc we had months of a very close EA, which after 7 months became also PA, even seldom, and not as a first priority.

 

We discussed our illusions together, a life together, he even went straight into the big empty space I didn´t know I had of wanting to form a family. Even if there is a big age difference (I´m 38, he´s 63), he said he wanted to give me a family.

 

This MM has been my foundation for many years, so has his family, so it has taken me and us several talks to really be able to a certain point defend our actions. I have struggled with fear, guilt, but at some point he told me not to be afraid, and we were in this for a future together. I have no experience with affairs, and neither with such big feelings I have experienced with this MM.

 

His life situation the last 7 years, has been being a caretaker of his wife who became ill. She is now recovered, but he lives without friends, social activities, a wife who doesn´t allow him to see anyone, who doesn´t work or have her own network of family or friends. He felt dead as a person, but feels a strong responsibility for his family, and the "perfect, strong" lperson he always has been for everyone. He loved his wife very much, he never talks bad about here, but the years of illness has drained him, and she has come out as a different person for whom he can not find the feelings again. They have been living separate at home for over two years, not sexual relation. I know for sure since I have a personal relation to all of them.

 

When our feelings started my MM felt alive again, and in the beginning it was all he was grateful for. Then little by little all the thoughts of how to live the last part of his life started to nag him, and he could not any longer hide the truth for himself.

 

All the time he has insisted in that the relation between them is dead from his side. He has not gone to MC at all, he says the problem is his, not in the marriage, and he wants his wife and kids to realize it so that they can make the final decision together. The problems all the time have been the bond after 35 years of marriage and fear of ruining the life of the kids. Kids are all over 30 years +, but are almost cutting his hand of for what he has done to their mother. He keeps saying he is dead inside.

 

A was discovered twice, both times followed by an instant NC from him, not checking how I was coping with my own shock and feelings. His wife reacts with threatening suicide, and everything is chaos. Both times he came back to the relation, change of email, but insisting in his feelings for me, and his frustration at home. During the summer i asked him to invest in his wife, and try to find an answer. NC lasted 3 days, then he sent me email greetings every day for weeks. He expresses he suffers from being apart.

 

A discovered again through computer (stupid, stupid....) NC and a final break from him because of the bond and worries for the state of the wife. It lasts 1 week, then he comes back telling me he is just in the M because of worries, but his love is with me. If it wasn´t for the circumstances he is still dreaming of giving me a family... Imagine how heartbroken I was to feel two soulmates were cut off by "tragic" circumstances.

 

Last NC after the wife had a breakdown, he went NC without preparing me for three weeks. I was sure that now this is it. It is totally over, and I came to a certain point where I felt a bit of distance to everything. Then he came back again, but now he had turned bitter, frustrated, angry. The bond theme didn´t exist. He had been seeking help from a psychiatrist to try to solve his wives issues. He talked about he had been looking for a place to rent, that his wife doesn´t get the reality, and that the daughter doesn´t support her mother in seeing the realities, which between women of course can create a wall of resistance. He talked about hes feelings for me, his dreams, and that now he was more sure than ever of what he wanted to do. He got shiny eyes when he said that one day I will be able to call you and say, I´m on my own. I of course melted, but with a certain distance.

 

After this conversation, I wrote him a letter saying I was very surprised by this sudden change in attitude. I said I had the same feelings as always, but to make a long letter short, I basically told him that I could wait with his support, but I needed to know I was not wasting my time. I didn´t put any deadlines.

 

I have basically been escaping from my town this fall staying long periods with my family. I have been totally broken down and exhausted, and partly lost myself. I never got an answer to my letter, just a small greeting by email. It was eating my soul out of worries, wondering, insecurness. We got to talk when I came back on the phone. He had been trying to answer me 20 times without managing... Then he says that I can´t put my life on hold for him, he doesn´t know how long it will take, his wife doesn´t see the reality and is not letting him go, but the kids are more on his side now. He said he needed desperately to breath (the "negotiation" with his wife has now lasted 6 months and no solution), he didn´t know how to make his wife understand, he thought maybe the only way was to move out. He keeps in touch with the psychiatrist, not for his sake as he sais he knows what he wants, but discussing how to handle his wife´s situation. And of course he mentions how much he is thinking about me constantly. I followed up his initiative to wanting to see me, and he said he would try to find a freeday during each week.

 

I also sent him an email with advice, not commenting anything about us, but as I saw him, he is near a total collapse. I said if he really know what he wants, there is no other way than taking certain actions for everybodies sake, also considering his health, to be able to move on.

 

What happends? NC again without any "warning". Every day I wake up to a day that might bring an email from him, and every day I go to sleep without nothing. No cancellation of our dates. It goes on for 2 weeks. Then he writes regarding a practical issue not relevant to our story. He appologizes for his silence, for not answering my email. He says it is very difficult for him to advance, and that he prefers to keep advancing the same way as now (slow, and hoping for a mutual agreement with his wife I suppose). He says he will write when he feels better, but he needs the silence. If silence means that there are no feelings for me anymore, if he is sorting things out, wants peace, I don´t know.

 

So here I am. This is absurd, isn´t it? I don´t know what is true, what is false, what is being a coward, what is trying to protect me from loosing my life... For the first time I have answered him, and asked him to be very clear about what this silence means, so that I can make a decision if I want him to contact me at all. For the moment no answer... I get physically ill by all this silence and uncertainty, constant naucea, bodypain, concentration problems. And I don´t enjoy life.

 

I will go NC to protect myself now, but it hurts to think it might be that he truly struggles to get out of his situation and protects me by cutting me off. If I leave I might loose a beautiful relation, but maybe his silence is actually him who already left. At the same time, it will take a looong time before he is ready I suppose. He says he is keeping me out of the story for the family not to blame me in any way. He says like that I can also be introduced again in the future. But I doubt he will handle it... He´s trying to make the wife see that the A is a consequence, not a reason for their problems, and he doesn´t hide anything, except the fact what he really feels for me. She thinks we finally have had no contact, and it´s actually how it is for the moment. His kids wants him to separate to try to see if he will miss his wife, he insists in that he has it very clear; if he moves out it is final. He has been dealing with the feelings for her over 7 years.

 

My God this is tiring... (and probably a mess for all of you reading it).

Edited November 27, 2010 by believed

[greengoddess]

His life situation the last 7 years, has been being a caretaker of his wife who became ill. She is now recovered, but he lives without friends, social activities, a wife who doesn´t allow him to see anyone, who doesn´t work or have her own network of family or friends. He felt dead as a person, but feels a strong responsibility for his family, and the "perfect, strong" lperson he always has been for everyone. He loved his wife very much, he never talks bad about here, but the years of illness has drained him, and she has come out as a different person for whom he can not find the feelings again. They have been living separate at home for over two years, not sexual relation. I know for sure since I have a personal relation to all of them.

 

.

 

This really jumped out at me. It's like looking into your future. I see you doing this for him. My god when your possible child graduates high school his dad will be 80. I look at this as your escape. Move on please. You don't need the future heartache.

[TigerCub]

(((believed)))

 

I'm sorry that you're in such pain.

 

What I'm going to say to you next, comes from genuine concern and is not meant to be harsh.

But, you spent 10 years on the side for this guy, you put your own life on hold just waiting for him.

 

Now at 38 you're realizing that you want a family and children. This guy made you waste a good chunk of your childbearing years (I really dont mean that as an insult and I know that women can still have kids after 38) - but if kids and a family are what you're realizing you want, I would suggest that you try to find someone else you can have that dream with.

 

How long are you willing to wait on this guy? What if it takes 10 more years? what then? He would have robbed you of your dream!!

Don't waste your life on the sidelines.

 

Furthermore, he cuts you off without warning or an explanation. Then he comes back and your simply accept it - that's never going to change if you keep putting up with it!

 

Also, I understand that he's been with his wife for 30+ years, and that she may have been ill, but is better now, and they've obviously went through so much together (they have lived their lives) together, and that bond at after so much time is hard to break I would imagine.

 

But for him to say that he knows what he wants, but its all her and she's not understanding and blah blah, I think is crap - IT'S NOT ALL HER!

He's reluctant too and its understandable because of all the years and experiences they've shared. So please don't buy into the crap that it's all her.

 

NO ONE stays where they don't want to be.

 

Sure, he may not love her like he did, and he's under a lot of stress and isn't very happy at home, but something is keeping him there and its not just the wife threatening suicide. Something in him is keeping him there because a bond like theirs is hard to break.

 

I know that you love him, and believe me I understand the pain of wanting to be with someone that you can't have, that you do truly love. But it really concerns me that you have waited for so long for this guy and nothing is changing.

 

I'm not one for kids, but if that is something that you do truly think you want, don't waste more time waiting on him, time goes by fast, and life is short, I'd hate for you to miss out on a dream that you have simply because you allow him to string you along.

[MorningCoffee]

I also sent him an email with advice, not commenting anything about us, but as I saw him, he is near a total collapse. I said if he really know what he wants, there is no other way than taking certain actions for everybodies sake, also considering his health, to be able to move on.

 

Sorry for what you are going through. Be prepared to get quite a lot of shyte here due to the age difference, and don't let it get to you. The age spread in my sitch was about the same, and the challenges were not age, not a sick wife that kept MAP in their M, but her financial security and parenting a young child. Ex-AP/MW also expressed the hope that her H would initiate the split, but like the long-term W here, that simply isn't likely to happen.

 

Guilt, inertia, duty, habit, whatever, all combine to keep him where he is.

 

Regardless of what seems to keep the MAP stuck, the bolded part shows you know exactly what has to happen, or else you will be forever in this limbo state, which is totally destructive for you. He has to make a decision and stick to it. From the POV of a man in his 60s, he sees you as his best and last chance for a new life. But for you, at your age, he is not your last chance to find your happiness. If he cannot act and soon, can you truly expect anything to change?

 

If not, then you need to bring an end to the relationship, heal, and move on. Life is too short to hang on to a thin thread of maybe.

[believed]

Just a quick correction to avoid misunderstandings. I have known him for 10 years, but the relation has just been going on for almost a year. Sorry for the confusion!

[believed]

Morningcoffee, The age doesn´t worry me, neither the comments which might come Im not a very traditional person, so I easily see behind that, and I would be prepared for standing up for my choice. I have reached my limit for how long I will wait without actions, I´m just struggling to get a clear picture. Probably I will never get it and I have to move on.

[believed]

Tigercub, It was a shock for me to discover I had feelings towards having a child. I have had no such need earlier, and I connect(ed?) it to the strong feelings I have for the MM. I know because of this that I can not hang on to this relation without a future if i really want kids. But I also know that I will not run out looking for someone "just" to have a child, the relation comes first, and I can also live without kids if I´m with the right person. I would know though, that if I don´t feel the need of having a family with a partner, the relation doesn´t have the feelings I need. So the circle is, enjoying these strong feelings, or going out there and wait for another right person. I´m realistic concerning my age, so I´m happy I have a relaxed relation to having kids. But to me it said something about how strong feelings can be, and that I have not really experiences "true" love before.

[scatterd]

It sounds like a roller coaster ride to me.This man is confused he is blaming it all on his wife and trying to get her to except your A will never happen he knows this.I think if he wanted you he would move mountains to be with you.Hes enjoying having all this attention from you a younger woman and I'm sure he has feelings for you but his family matters more.

actions speak louder then words and his actions have shown time and time again where his loyalty's are.He says he wants to give you a family but he has already raised one I have to wonder if he has doubts about what will

happen ten years from now or even twenty.He is getting older and when or if he falls ill will you still want him?You are still young and have so much more life in you and I'm sure its a turn on for him.Every time he calls back you are available to him so he does not have the fear that hes loosing you.I wonder if you did not return his calls or be there all the time if he would take action.Having an A is addicting and he is trying to get away but cant stop thinking of you.What you hear has came out from his mouth

so how do you know that maybe theirs more to his story then he says.I would take time out for a while and find your self and try to figure out if you are willing to do this longer.He could continue this for many years to come.Take care of your self and big hugs

[TigerCub]

Tigercub, It was a shock for me to discover I had feelings towards having a child. I have had no such need earlier, and I connect(ed?) it to the strong feelings I have for the MM. I know because of this that I can not hang on to this relation without a future if i really want kids. But I also know that I will not run out looking for someone "just" to have a child,

I wasn't suggesting that you run out to a sperm bank.

I was thinking more along the lines of being open to meet a good person that you can have a good relationship with - fall in love, have a real relationship with, etc...then the kids would come if so wanted them

 

the relation comes first, and I can also live without kids if I´m with the right person. I would know though, that if I don´t feel the need of having a family with a partner, the relation doesn´t have the feelings I need. So the circle is, enjoying these strong feelings, or going out there and wait for another right person. I´m realistic concerning my age, so I´m happy I have a relaxed relation to having kids. But to me it said something about how strong feelings can be, and that I have not really experiences "true" love before.

 

In a way I understand what you're saying. As I said before, I'm not one for kids, but I always do think that maybe if I actually met a guy that I would love that would be right for me, my opinion would then change about such issues as marriage and kids - so in that sense I understand what you're saying.

 

However...I'm sorry I don't think what you are experiencing is "true" love because he's not making any efforts to be with you, and he's proven that he's so quick to cut you off when he needs to without explanation or any regards to your feelings, or what he's putting you through.

 

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh - but then again, I can't tell you how to feel, I'm simply on the outside looking in through the story that you tell.

 

Also, I'm really not judging you, I know that feeling of "true love", "we're meant to be" that happens with an A. I held on to that feeling and I held on to false hope because of that feeling - to the point where I finally felt suffocated and I couldn't breathe because that whole ordeal was so destructive - but that's just my story and my experience.

Yours could certainly be different.

 

Good luck to you

[believed]

Greengoddess, you made me smile a little:), nobody knows what a future might bring. I might fall under a bus tomorrow and that´s it. I had this strong conviction that it is worth living the time we would have together. But I´m know for being very radical and sand by my decisions, so maybe I have block out too much the consequences for me and lived for him? But I feel I have had to take a stand to all these thoughts during the roller coaster. What really is my big problem now, is defending how i am being treated. I am not really able to make more excuses for him. He´s simply not enough presents or supportive on my side if this was really what he wanted.

[believed]

I wasn't suggesting that you run out to a sperm bank.

I was thinking more along the lines of being open to meet a good person that you can have a good relationship with - fall in love, have a real relationship with, etc...then the kids would come if so wanted them

 

Didn´t think you meant so:) I just know myself, I will be very slow in looking for someone, and certainly not for a spermbank;)

 

In a way I understand what you're saying. As I said before, I'm not one for kids, but I always do think that maybe if I actually met a guy that I would love that would be right for me, my opinion would then change about such issues as marriage and kids - so in that sense I understand what you're saying.

 

I have always been no-kids absolutely. So the emotions came out of control with this experience. I have had to really dig deep down to find my priorities in life from now on.

 

However...I'm sorry I don't think what you are experiencing is "true" love because he's not making any efforts to be with you, and he's proven that he's so quick to cut you off when he needs to without explanation or any regards to your feelings, or what he's putting you through.

 

I realize it!!

 

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh - but then again, I can't tell you how to feel, I'm simply on the outside looking in through the story that you tell.

 

It´s not harsh, and I appreciate it. That´s why I write here, to have someone to compare and share it with. I have no experience or storiess close around me.

 

Also, I'm really not judging you, I know that feeling of "true love", "we're meant to be" that happens with an A. I held on to that feeling and I held on to false hope because of that feeling - to the point where I finally felt suffocated and I couldn't breathe because that whole ordeal was so destructive - but that's just my story and my experience.

Yours could certainly be different.

 

Good luck to you

Thanks!!

[bentnotbroken]

The two of you have helped push a mentally unstable woman who was ill for a while to the brink, including a mental breakdown. I can see how he is worth doing that to another human being. D-days were his chance to walk away, yet he continued to gas light and play with her mental health by leading her.

[Tinkerbell1]

It sounds like a very tough situation. However, dont forget that no matter what he does, you are in charge of you. The sudden repeated no contacts without any warning or regard to your feelings is the biggest red light to me. Would you have done that to him repeatedly without caring how he would be hurt? Would you accept this behavior from a good friend or a single guy? If this is how he is treating you now, be assured he will treat you no better if you ever do become a couple. I really think you deserve more. He is keeping you around as a fallback for his old age, and that is not a great position for you to be in. You think now it doesnt matter, but it does and it will. Good luck.

[BB07]

When I read your post, I could see and hear and feel all the hurt and sadness coming through. Hugs to you.

 

A few things stand out to me and I'm sorry if it is gonna sound harsh.

 

This man has so much drama in his life and that can't ever be a good thing to get in the middle of and you are and it's taking you down.

I get that he has some difficult circumstances but where does what you need and want fit it? The part that concerns me the most is how can he just repeatably just cut you off with no warnings? It doesn't sound like he even apologizes when he does this to you, instead he makes excuses about his difficulties. That has to be so hurtful and yes downright cruel and cold no matter what are his reasons/excuses and personally I don't think you should tolerate that or go along with it. It's not loving or caring behavior and it's an action that should show you that he is very selfish or else so stuck in his own drama that he can't be anything at all for you. It's sooo not fair and it puts you in the position of being his doormat. You deserve better than that no matter what is going on at his house.

Another thing that stands out to me is that your mm is giving you a lot of excuses/reasons he can't do anything. In my view (I've learned the hard way) it's cowardly behavior and for him to say that he wants his family to make the decision for him........yuck! Is he a man or a coward?

 

I suppose the question you need to answer for yourself is how much longer are you going to allow him to sit on the fence and put you through hell in the mean time? Is it time to get off the roller coaster? I would think you deserve a better life.

[bentnotbroken]

Greengoddess, you made me smile a little:), nobody knows what a future might bring. I might fall under a bus tomorrow and that´s it. I had this strong conviction that it is worth living the time we would have together. But I´m know for being very radical and sand by my decisions, so maybe I have block out too much the consequences for me and lived for him? But I feel I have had to take a stand to all these thoughts during the roller coaster. What really is my big problem now, is defending how i am being treated. I am not really able to make more excuses for him. He´s simply not enough presents or supportive on my side if this was really what he wanted.

 

 

You helped him treat his wife like her mental health meant nothing but you can't reconcile that with the way he treats you....why not? Same man, same standards of treating humans, same lies with a different twist rolling off his tongue. Why didn't you see his treatment of you coming?

[BB07]

The two of you have helped push a mentally unstable woman who was ill for a while to the brink, including a mental breakdown. I can see how he is worth doing that to another human being. D-days were his chance to walk away, yet he continued to gas light and play with her mental health by leading her.

 

 

I gotta agree with Bent here, what he is doing to someone who already is fragile is cruel as hell. He either needs to ****e or get off the pot. To continue on with more D days can only make a bad situation much worse.

You need to consider that it's a possibility that she might snap and how will you feel if that happens?

[TigerCub]

The two of you have helped push a mentally unstable woman who was ill for a while to the brink, including a mental breakdown. I can see how he is worth doing that to another human being. D-days were his chance to walk away, yet he continued to gas light and play with her mental health by leading her.

 

Are you suggesting that a "mentally unstable" person who was ill - BUT RECOVERED is entitled to threaten suicide every time their spouse wanted to discuss leaving? That's ok? THey can play the mentally unstable card and guilt someone and trap them into being with them?

[believed]

Bent+BB07, I agree. I don´t want to contribute to an uncontrolled situation, and I also did ask him to invest in is wife to be able to choose. Yes, I have been available afterwards EA, but it´s from then on I have received the constant changes in opinion, silence etc. etc. but I can not take the whole responsibility for a person who doesn´t want to listen to what the H actually is telling her. As long as he stays, even though she knows without feelings, he is also avoiding for her situation to escalate. If he would´t give a damn, he could risk to leave. But should he love like this for ever?

 

I now how illness can affect a family and marriages, it is a huge unexplored chapter, and many families suffer the consequences.

[Carrot2000]

You helped him treat his wife like her mental health meant nothing but you can't reconcile that with the way he treats you....why not? Same man, same standards of treating humans, same lies with a different twist rolling off his tongue. Why didn't you see his treatment of you coming?

 

Bent, you nailed this.

 

Believed, he's been showing you all along who he was and what he was capable of, but you didn't notice because he wasn't doing it to you. Instead, the two of you defended your actions.

 

The players may have changed, but the game is still the same.

[believed]

Mistake: My question was: should he live (not love) like this forever?

[TigerCub]

I gotta agree with Bent here, what he is doing to someone who already is fragile is cruel as hell. He either needs to ****e or get off the pot. To continue on with more D days can only make a bad situation much worse.

You need to consider that it's a possibility that she might snap and how will you feel if that happens?

 

BB, I luv ya and I think that you are an insightful person.

 

I agree that what he is doing to his wife isn't right, cheating isn't right to do anyone, but if according to the story the wife threatens suicide whenever he wants to leave, what's he supposed to do if he's just trapped there?

 

I just think the way that bent made it sounds is that well a mentally unstable person has the right to just play that card and force/guilt someone into being with them.

 

that's not really right either. Yes its crappy that she's unstable and was ill - she recovered. And yes her H shouldn't be cheating on her in the first place - but to make it seem like W is exempt from being dumped by her H because she is a little disadvantged isn't right either.

It could have been handled better, but if according to the story, she's threatening suicide when he wants to leave, and he's miserable and trapped, does that mean that he should stay and be miserable?

[believed]

I think it would be a game if he would try to escape, and if i would have asked him to leave. He is not, and I´m not. He says very clear that one chapter needs to finnish before another one is opened, and this kind of reactions from the wife are not the most standard, and can´t really be prepared. He lives at home, drives the wife all around, talks to the kids about the situation, to familymembers, tries to create a network for her, but he is honest and says he can not give her what she wants. The option is for him to create his own independent life inside their home, which she doesn´t want.

[Carrot2000]

I think it would be a game if he would try to escape, and if i would have asked him to leave. He is not, and I´m not. He says very clear that one chapter needs to finnish before another one is opened, and this kind of reactions from the wife are not the most standard, and can´t really be prepared. He lives at home, drives the wife all around, talks to the kids about the situation, to familymembers, tries to create a network for her, but he is honest and says he can not give her what she wants. The option is for him to create his own independent life inside their home, which she doesn´t want.

 

No, the option is for him to make sure his wife is financially secure end his marriage. He's letting what she "doesn't want" dictate his behavior because the truth is that he doesn't want to leave. What he wants is his wife and his mistress.

[believed]

Carrot2000, If that´s what he wants, time will show since I will back off. He would leave her totally financial secure. He would take his books, a car and keep his job. The rest for her. He has no plans of keeping anything, but he would be very unsensitive if her reactions would not affect him. If he wanted to keep his "mistress", which I think is not a correct description of who I have been, he would not cut me off and keep contact only by mail.

[Carrot2000]

Carrot2000, If that´s what he wants, time will show since I will back off. He would leave her totally financial secure. He would take his books, a car and keep his job. The rest for her. He has no plans of keeping anything, but he would be very unsensitive if her reactions would not affect him. If he wanted to keep his "mistress", which I think is not a correct description of who I have been, he would not cut me off and keep contact only by mail.

 

So there's your answer. I hope you keep this in mind the next time he contacts you and tries to start the affair up again because he will try to come back once the dust settles at home.