Full of red flags, or simply tragic circumstances ?

[Tinkerbell1]

No, the option is for him to make sure his wife is financially secure end his marriage. He's letting what she "doesn't want" dictate his behavior because the truth is that he doesn't want to leave. What he wants is his wife and his mistress.

 

What Carrot said. He is a grown up and so is his wife. Their kids are full on adults. They can help out their mom too. The fact is, if he really loves you, he should put YOUR welfare before his own like he supposedly does his wife. He would be telling you to live your life and NOT to wait for him while he figures his sh.. out. In the meantime, he has a full blown home drama on his hands and instead of encouraging you to be happy, he is bringing you in. And dont mistake his repeated sudden NC's as trying to keep you safe. He hasnt stuck to them and they are so random that they are causing you more harm and drama. Believe, Im not trying to be harsh, Im just trying to be honest. Dont let yourself keep getting dragged back into this. By being there for him, you are just encouraging him to stay in the same situation. There is no need for him to change as he has both of you.

[whichwayisup]

Just a quick correction to avoid misunderstandings. I have known him for 10 years, but the relation has just been going on for almost a year. Sorry for the confusion!

 

So you know her, his wife as well?

 

The two of you have helped push a mentally unstable woman who was ill for a while to the brink, including a mental breakdown. I can see how he is worth doing that to another human being. D-days were his chance to walk away, yet he continued to gas light and play with her mental health by leading her.

 

Exactly.

 

Mistake: My question was: should he live (not love) like this forever?

 

If he leaves, with you in the picture or not, it'll happen. He shouldn't be leaving in hopes that you will be waiting for him.

 

He obviously does love her, and feels obligated to her otherwise he would have left a long time ago. those who truly want out, leave. No matter how hard it is, they just do it. He's put himself in this situation, where he has to choose and he can't. My guess is, he'd be totally okay and happy with just continuing on with the A and staying married.

[whichwayisup]

He would be telling you to live your life and NOT to wait for him while he figures his sh.. out.

 

Yes, but so could she. She could tell him, my life is going on, with or without you. if you divorce, call me and we'll start over, date and take it slow. She doens't have to give him all the power to make the decisions.

[believed]

Carrot2000, I keep it in mind, that´s what has taken me to a more "conscious" level. But my question is still what makes him take this step. Seeing your reactions to his behavior not knowing him at all, and writing down the story, I can see a totally trapped human being, who actually would cut all contact with me if he didn´t want to fool me to believe there would be a relation within a reasonable time. Me stopping my life to waite for him, has been a big concern for him.

[BB07]

BB, I luv ya and I think that you are an insightful person.

 

Ahhh thanks Tiger!

 

I hate to speak for Bent but I don't think that is what she meant. Of course she doesn't feel it's right for his wife to play a card. I think what she is saying is that the d days are probably making a bad situation much worse.

 

I agree that what he is doing to his wife isn't right, cheating isn't right to do anyone, but if according to the story the wife threatens suicide whenever he wants to leave, what's he supposed to do if he's just trapped there?

 

Is that what is happening, that she threatens when he leaves or is it that she is pushed over the edge? I dunno......perhaps some more clarification from the the OP would help.

 

I just think the way that bent made it sounds is that well a mentally unstable person has the right to just play that card and force/guilt someone into being with them.

 

that's not really right either. Yes its crappy that she's unstable and was ill - she recovered. And yes her H shouldn't be cheating on her in the first place - but to make it seem like W is exempt from being dumped by her H because she is a little disadvantged isn't right either.

It could have been handled better, but if according to the story, she's threatening suicide when he wants to leave, and he's miserable and trapped, does that mean that he should stay and be miserable?

 

Back to the big problem I have with what the OP described.......is how MM is treating the OP. Just dropping her like a hot potato and expecting her to just suck it up. He is treating her badly.......that can't be disputed and he is treating his wife who is unstable badly.........right? Do his good qualities make up for this or is this man a real horses pa-toot? Doesn't sound like a prize to me! My 2 cents....

[TigerCub]

Yes, but so could she. She could tell him, my life is going on, with or without you. if you divorce, call me and we'll start over, date and take it slow. She doens't have to give him all the power to make the decisions.

 

Totally agree with this.

[greengoddess]

BB, I luv ya and I think that you are an insightful person.

 

I agree that what he is doing to his wife isn't right, cheating isn't right to do anyone, but if according to the story the wife threatens suicide whenever he wants to leave, what's he supposed to do if he's just trapped there?

 

I just think the way that bent made it sounds is that well a mentally unstable person has the right to just play that card and force/guilt someone into being with them.

 

that's not really right either. Yes its crappy that she's unstable and was ill - she recovered. And yes her H shouldn't be cheating on her in the first place - but to make it seem like W is exempt from being dumped by her H because she is a little disadvantged isn't right either.

It could have been handled better, but if according to the story, she's threatening suicide when he wants to leave, and he's miserable and trapped, does that mean that he should stay and be miserable?

 

He is not trapped because she threatens suicide. You call her family, her religious leader, the police. You do not stay forever with someone because they say they will commit suicide if you leave. Hell I'd still be with the idiot i was dating at 15. The man is cruel and needs to stop playing games with two women.

[whichwayisup]

Back to the big problem I have with what the OP described.......is how MM is treating the OP. Just dropping her like a hot potato and expecting her to just suck it up. He is treating her badly.......that can't be disputed and he is treating his wife who is unstable badly.........right? Do his good qualities make up for this or is this man a real horses pa-toot? Doesn't sound like a prize to me! My 2 cents....

 

I'm not saying 'typical male' or anything, but many men, not only MM but men of ALL ages in general find it easier for themselves to just ignore and be subtle instead of actually sitting down and communicating. He is being a jerk, he knows this, but his coping skills suck and he is handling everything HIS way, easiet for HIM. If he wanted out, he would just do it and face everything, deal with it, get help, do counseling, confide in friends, get support. Instead he's acting selfish. And pissing off and upsetting both his wife and the OP. This is a pattern for him, how he handles stuff. I also think he's greatly exaggerating stuff to suit him best, to put him in the best light possible in the OP's eyes, like HE is the victim now. His wife threatening and making HIM feel bad. Making him feel stuck in a marriage that he truly wants out of.

[believed]

She could tell him, my life is going on, with or without you.

I have told him. I can either wait with his support (which would mean he would need to know what to do), or I said I will just let life go on and can not guarantee where I am when we meat again. After that he said i can´t stop my life for him, but he continued to transmit his feelings. That´s where I now step off, I can not take this double communication anymore.

 

if you divorce, call me and we'll start over, date and take it slow.

 

It will be what I will tell him to finish off. I´m right in it these days.

 

She doesn't have to give him all the power to make the decisions.

No I don´t, but I have not been used to put the foot down, and until now I have been to emotional involved to put my limits. I´m not an experienced neither "mistress", nor do I have 50 relations in my life to lean on. I got strongly involved emotionally and I trusted blindly, and i am now trying to see what is up and what is down in all this.

[TigerCub]

I hate to speak for Bent but I don't think that is what she meant. Of course she doesn't feel it's right for his wife to play a card. I think what she is saying is that the d days are probably making a bad situation much worse.

I agree that he is making things worse, but I guess I just read more into Bent's reply to mean that - oh well the W is unstable and so he can't leave (even if the OP was saying that the W threatens to kill herself). I just think that's a form of manipulation and blackmail to keep someone that doesn't want to be there trapped.

 

Is that what is happening, that she threatens when he leaves or is it that she is pushed over the edge? I dunno......perhaps some more clarification from the the OP would help.

I would imagine that after being with someone for 30+ years, when one spouse wants to leave - that would cause the other a LOT of stress and yeah it would seem to push them over the edge regardless of how stable they might have been before that - its not a pleasant thing to have your life partner want to leave you after so many years and experiences together. I do understand that, its just that manipulation part that I read into it (as I explained above) that I don't quite care for. I just don't think that being disadvantaged gives someone a free pass to trap another person to them. (but again that's according to my interpretation of what Bent said)

 

Back to the big problem I have with what the OP described.......is how MM is treating the OP. Just dropping her like a hot potato and expecting her to just suck it up. He is treating her badly.......that can't be disputed and he is treating his wife who is unstable badly.........right? Do his good qualities make up for this or is this man a real horses pa-toot? Doesn't sound like a prize to me! My 2 cents....

 

Oh I completely agree with everything you said here. And before Bent made that comment I was telling the OP about how its not worth it (in my opinion) to waste more time on this guy - because he is where he wants to be, and MMs lie and we don't know that everything he's saying about his W is true - and lets not forget how he's so quick to drop the OP.

 

I agree that this guy is not worth it.

 

I was actually going off track when I saw what Bent said (its was a general question to her opinion) and not really a comment on this situation in particular.

 

Thanks for the reply BB.

[TigerCub]

He is not trapped because she threatens suicide. You call her family, her religious leader, the police. You do not stay forever with someone because they say they will commit suicide if you leave. Hell I'd still be with the idiot i was dating at 15. The man is cruel and needs to stop playing games with two women.

 

I was replying to what Bent said with a question in General - NOT really with regards to this specific MM. It was more about the scenario of a guy being with a woman that threatens to kill herself if he leaves - does that mental instability just give her a free pass to trap someone?

 

As far as this guy is concerned, I know that MMs lie, and I know that no one is somewhere they don't want to be, and I said that in a response before Bent made her comment.

 

I think all MMs are cruel because they are playing with the lives and emotions of people.

 

I'm not saying that this is a good guy at all - it was just a generalized question with regards to what she said.

[BB07]

She could tell him, my life is going on, with or without you.

I have told him. I can either wait with his support (which would mean he would need to know what to do), or I said I will just let life go on and can not guarantee where I am when we meat again. After that he said i can´t stop my life for him, but he continued to transmit his feelings. That´s where I now step off, I can not take this double communication anymore.

 

if you divorce, call me and we'll start over, date and take it slow.

 

It will be what I will tell him to finish off. I´m right in it these days.

 

She doesn't have to give him all the power to make the decisions.

No I don´t, but I have not been used to put the foot down, and until now I have been to emotional involved to put my limits. I´m not an experienced neither "mistress", nor do I have 50 relations in my life to lean on. I got strongly involved emotionally and I trusted blindly, and i am now trying to see what is up and what is down in all this.

 

 

Most people aren't experienced mistresses and usually having an affair isn't something that you proclaim loudly from the rooftop, so you've came here and yes that is a good thing.

 

It is about not being anyone's doormat or being manipulated and I believe you are being both and that isn't a good thing, regardless if you are the mistress or not. I know that stings, but I've learned my lessons the hard way, BTDT ya know. You've got to stand up for yourself and say.......enough! Love doesn't mean allowing someone to hurt you or use you.

[alexandria35]

Are you suggesting that a "mentally unstable" person who was ill - BUT RECOVERED is entitled to threaten suicide every time their spouse wanted to discuss leaving? That's ok? THey can play the mentally unstable card and guilt someone and trap them into being with them?

 

I don't believe that is what Bent meant at all. I think she is refering to the continued lying and gaslighting as playing with the wife's mental health and I agree. If it's even true that the wife is threatening suicide. I mean isn't that kind of a standard MM line? When there a small kids involved the MM can always use the children as their excuse for not leaving but when there are no kids or when the kids are already grown and gone then they have to come up with a different excuse and it's usually something along the lines of the wife not being able to survive the break up.

 

However even if it's true that the wife is unstable then the MM is definitely contributing to that by continuing to lie to her about what his true intentions are. Then again, maybe he's lying to the OP more than he is lying to his wife. It doesnt sound like he is leaving and it seems that whenever the OP inquires about what it is he really wants, he goes into hiding.

 

I also think he likes things just as they are. His wife and family and a younger woman on the side. He knows that old age is coming for him soon and he probably wants to go into those years with the comfort of having his wife and family but for right now he's enjoying the affair too. I don't believe that he is staying solely for his wife's well being, he is staying for himself. He doesn't want to give up the security of a well defined life and future for the unknown.

[greengoddess]

I was replying to what Bent said with a question in General - NOT really with regards to this specific MM. It was more about the scenario of a guy being with a woman that threatens to kill herself if he leaves - does that mental instability just give her a free pass to trap someone?

 

As far as this guy is concerned, I know that MMs lie, and I know that no one is somewhere they don't want to be, and I said that in a response before Bent made her comment.

 

I think all MMs are cruel because they are playing with the lives and emotions of people.

 

I'm not saying that this is a good guy at all - it was just a generalized question with regards to what she said.

 

Personally I don't believe the suicide threat. This is right out of the married man handbook when they can't use the kids as an excuse. I mean who wouldn't believe that some poor elderly betrayed spouse would want to kill themselves because that prince of a man left them. The ow are so in love that they totally understand why the wife would be suicidal over them. It's the perfect I can't leave because...

 

:laugh:I even read one story where the mm wouldn't leave until his dog died and the ow actually thought it was a plausible excuse. The ow believe in these men just like the wives do. He probably tells the wife that his mistress means nothing, that it's just recreational sex and that the ow is reading more into it. The wife is probably happy the horny old guy is going elsewhere.

[believed]

It is about not being anyone's doormat or being manipulated and I believe you are being both and that isn't a good thing

 

 

I will come out of this with this knowledge present in everything I do. But I think if it would have been so easy, I would have had the same strength in my writing as many of you have. Obviously I was lacking eperience to see what I went through. My body clearly reacted, but I didn´t stand up for myself.

[TigerCub]

Personally I don't believe the suicide threat. This is right out of the married man handbook when they can't use the kids as an excuse. I mean who wouldn't believe that some poor elderly betrayed spouse would want to kill themselves because that prince of a man left them. The ow are so in love that they totally understand why the wife would be suicidal over them. It's the perfect I can't leave because...

 

:laugh:I even read one story where the mm wouldn't leave until his dog died and the ow actually thought it was a plausible excuse. The ow believe in these men just like the wives do. He probably tells the wife that his mistress means nothing, that it's just recreational sex and that the ow is reading more into it. The wife is probably happy the horny old guy is going elsewhere.

 

HAHA!!! that's funny!

"Gotta wait for ol Rex to kick the bucket"

"Rex? Isn't that the puppy you just got?"

"uhm, yeah...so I'm guessing 15-18 years...That good for ya baby? Cuz I promise..after that - it'll be smooooooooooooth sailin'"

 

oyi...MMs and their lies

 

Believed - sorry I really didn't mean to hijack your thread, and so I'm gonna stop asking off track questions.

[greengoddess]

Believed go pamper yourself. Go get the nails, hair pedicure done and then go out and shop with your head held high noticing all the gorgeous men out shopping for the holidays. Smile at them and just enjoy yourself proudly. Smile, forget about this situation for a bit and open your eyes to all the other people out there. Make eye contact with everyone you see.

[Carrot2000]

 

This MM has been my foundation for many years, so has his family, so it has taken me and us several talks to really be able to a certain point defend our actions. I have struggled with fear, guilt, but at some point he told me not to be afraid, and we were in this for a future together. I have no experience with affairs, and neither with such big feelings I have experienced with this MM.

 

This man's family was your foundation and you and you say don't have relatives of your own to lean on; wouldn't it make sense that you would have been more respectful of his wife and family since they were kind to you? Now you no longer have the support of his family and MM has cut you off.

 

You've been horribly manipulated and this relationship has cost you so much. The man still has his family and his wife and it's unfair that you are being left with nothing.

[whichwayisup]

Believed go pamper yourself. Go get the nails, hair pedicure done and then go out and shop with your head held high noticing all the gorgeous men out shopping for the holidays. Smile at them and just enjoy yourself proudly. Smile, forget about this situation for a bit and open your eyes to all the other people out there. Make eye contact with everyone you see.

 

Two thumbs up on this one! GO and spend a day at the spa with your sister, (if you have a sis) or with a good female friend!

[bentnotbroken]

Bent+BB07, I agree. I don´t want to contribute to an uncontrolled situation, and I also did ask him to invest in is wife to be able to choose. Yes, I have been available afterwards EA, but it´s from then on I have received the constant changes in opinion, silence etc. etc. but I can not take the whole responsibility for a person who doesn´t want to listen to what the H actually is telling her. As long as he stays, even though she knows without feelings, he is also avoiding for her situation to escalate. If he would´t give a damn, he could risk to leave. But should he love like this for ever?

 

I now how illness can affect a family and marriages, it is a huge unexplored chapter, and many families suffer the consequences.

 

 

Nor should you take 100% of the responsibility. But make no mistake, you are aiding in the lies being told to her. He is lying(gaslighting) what is she supposed to believe is the truth and what is she is supposed to believe is lies. He had an opportunity to leave more than once with d-day and he did not. That is lying to her by leading her on. IF it is over for him then stop making the punk azz moves of staying and let her heal. Yes, it will be hard for her, yes she will need professional help and yes, if he leaves it is no longer his responsibility.

 

But as long as he stays with her he is lying to her and aiding in her mental instability. And as long as you are involved you add to it, whether intentional or not. You are aware there are mental issues so you know what the possibilities are you cannot claim an unknowing participation.

 

What you call his "love" really his unending, unmitigated gall at screwing with someone else's life:sick:

[believed]

To clear the wife-theme. For her nobody else exist in her life but her husband. She doesn´t have hobbies, doesn´t socialize with ANY friends, but their children, travels only to an isolated summerhouse, and doesn´t even take her car even if she can drive. They have been talking for months trying to open up her world, he has told her she needs to find others to lean to, to have activities, a common project for their lives if they are getting old together. She refuses. She also refuses therapy.

 

The grown-up kids of course should step in, that´s why the MM are in constant talks with them about the situation. The wife accepts that a relation with no love is not possible, but in the moment he makes a move, she collapses. I can choose to believe it or not. MM says he needs to advance in the tempo that makes everyone accept the situation, if not he cant´enjoy a new life. I can believe it or not. I have no reasons for not believing it´s true, but that also makes it almost impossible to leave the marriage. From my point of view I have to think of my timeline.

 

It might sound like excuses, lies, but I think they are deep down human, natural reactions from everyone involved. The question is just how realistic it is to think it might change.

[whichwayisup]

Is his wife your friend too? I mean before the A. You kind of imply that you know the whole family. If so, this could be a huge reason why he's having issues leaving, a family friend, the OW and how his own kids, relatives, and ofcourse his wife, will react. She knows he's having an A, or had an A, does she know it's you?

 

If she's always been secluded, focussed on him, her kids, and hasn't made many friends over the years, taht isn't going to change .. Even more so if he keeps pushing her!

[believed]

Alexandria,

 

However even if it's true that the wife is unstable then the MM is definitely contributing to that by continuing to lie to her about what his true intentions are.

 

His main goal is to finish the M. He´s not lying about that. That he lies about my existence at this point is fine, because we don´t have any existence. He would neither finish his M to move in to me. i would need him to have a time for himself first, and who knows if I would want a relation in the end. He needs to finis the M for himself prepared to be able to live alone. Maybe this is the big problem.

[sugarmomma]

He says very clear that one chapter needs to finnish before another one is opened,

 

 

For real?? If that were the case he would have left his w before he started and a with you.

 

He is a classic cake eater and you are allowing him. He will only do to you what you allow him. You allow him to cut contact with you then just reappear. I would never allow someone to do that to me.

 

Its time to put you first. If you look at your original post and count how many times you wrote "he, him" instead of "I or me", you would see that your focus is completely off. This situation should be about YOU and not HIM. Have you considered YOUR needs and wants??

 

Since your needs and wants are not being met and he will try to fit you in on a "free day" how long will you settle??

[believed]

whichwayisup, Yes, I know her and his family, and they know he has had a R with me. What he has told about the R I don´t know, they found emails he sent me.

 

I agree, I don´t think she will change if not her kids or other relatives opens up her world. I am aware of her complicated situation, and I have never played any games of asking him to make a move, or putting deadlines etc.