Full of red flags, or simply tragic circumstances ?

[Carrot2000]

Its time to put you first. If you look at your original post and count how many times you wrote "he, him" instead of "I or me", you would see that your focus is completely off. This situation should be about YOU and not HIM. Have you considered YOUR needs and wants??

 

Since your needs and wants are not being met and he will try to fit you in on a "free day" how long will you settle??

 

And by constantly putting him and his needs first, Believed is no different than his wife who doesn't have hobbies or socialize because no one exists in the world except this man. The wife is being criticized for loving and needing him too much and Believed is doing the exact same thing.

[believed]

sugarmomma, I see it! Now these last days.... I have had to reach below bottom to find what I´m worth. i have probably been afraid of loosing him putting boundaries, and blinded as well.

[Carrot2000]

I agree, I don´t think she will change if not her kids or other relatives opens up her world. I am aware of her complicated situation, and I have never played any games of asking him to make a move, or putting deadlines etc.

 

What about you opening up your world? You have no right to criticize his wife. This woman has given 30+ years to this man; you've only given him one. You are still young and have the freedom to go out and find a single man--why don't you?

[believed]

Carrot2000, Yes maybe that´s what I have been doing. Probably to give the situation time to find some kind of solution, then I can accept that people are not acting splendidly. But I see I have nothing to loose in thinking for myself now. I do have problems with letting people go before myself, even though strangely enough to people I seam like a very strong and leading woman. I´ll try to catch myself in this bad habit!!

[believed]

Carrot2000, What about you opening up your world?

 

I will do so now! I am activly doing a lot of things for everybody else, but what I need has been put away for along time.

 

You have no right to criticize his wife.

 

I don´t think i have critisized her? I just don´t think she will change, and then I understand that the MM will have difficulties in leaving.

 

You are still young and have the freedom to go out and find a single man--why don't you?

 

I will try!

[sugarmomma]

 

It might sound like excuses, lies, but I think they are deep down human, natural reactions from everyone involved. The question is just how realistic it is to think it might change.

 

 

Say this with me "I will not knowingly believe lies". He is a liar. He is lying to his wife and YOU and that is the REALITY.

 

The sooner you can see him for who he really is and not who you would like him to be, the sooner you can move past this affair fog you're in.

 

I used to be an OW and would never fall for the lies they tell ever again. BTDT.

[sugarmomma]

 

I will try!

 

 

There is no 'try'. You have to make a concerted effort to get out of this situation. He will only continue to hurt you IF YOU allow him.

 

Take your power back in this situation and tell him to stay the hell out of your life with all his drama. You don't need this. Change your numbers email etc and cut all contact with him.

 

The pain will be great at first but you will get better and come out a much wiser person who makes good choices regarding the kinds of people to keep in your circle. He isn't one of them.

 

He is a user. Lose him asap!!

[believed]

This man's family was your foundation and you and you say don't have relatives of your own to lean on; wouldn't it make sense that you would have been more respectful of his wife and family since they were kind to you?

 

Yes, probably, if I decided to take this MM from his family just for the fun. And yes, probably all together.

 

Now you no longer have the support of his family and MM has cut you off.

 

Correct, I lost all of them, and I don´t blame them their reaction.

 

You've been horribly manipulated and this relationship has cost you so much. The man still has his family and his wife and it's unfair that you are being left with nothing.

 

Unfair, maybe, if MM could me in a R with me. And unfair, because I expected at least for the MM to be able to offer some kind of support.But I can´t expect more than the wife is getting. That has also been why I have been shutting up so many times as well. Whatever argument or pain I have had, could never be compared to what his wife was/is going through, so how could I put it out loud? My mind has worked like this.

 

[believed]

I meant, I will try to find a new guy as was suggested:)

 

And I will repeat with you not to believe his lies. Or is it enough that I will not believe anything he says if there are no corresponding actions ??

[sugarmomma]

The only corresponding actions would be a divorce decree in his hand in my opinion. But even then you will always know that if he did it to his wife of 30 years he could also do it to you.

 

Beyond that he is 20 plus years older than you which means you will be young and taking care of a senior citizen in your 40's and 50's. Just a side note- you could have some "daddy" issues due to picking a man so much older than you.

 

Do you really want that for your life?

[believed]

Nor should you take 100% of the responsibility. But make no mistake, you are aiding in the lies being told to her. He is lying(gaslighting) what is she supposed to believe is the truth and what is she is supposed to believe is lies. He had an opportunity to leave more than once with d-day and he did not. That is lying to her by leading her on. IF it is over for him then stop making the punk azz moves of staying and let her heal. Yes, it will be hard for her, yes she will need professional help and yes, if he leaves it is no longer his responsibility.

I agree that staying when one has made a decision is not correct. I think it adds pain, and until there is a clear action from MM the W will not act on the reality, nor will the kids. But, I can not force an action on the MM, I can only reach the point where I am not any longer taking part.

 

At the same time, how would you reach the certainty that you would leave such a situation and being fine with your conscious if something happened? If he doesn´t manage to leave for whatever reason, then so be it. I can´t change that, I can just see the reality and act.

But as long as he stays with her he is lying to her and aiding in her mental instability. And as long as you are involved you add to it, whether intentional or not.

 

Of course I can not deny that in the mind of MM I am present, and that I am the reason for all this mess in the eyes of W. But I have stepped back, I have never asked him for solutions, and I have been hanging in there weeks and months with nothing but a few emails giving him freedom and space.

 

you cannot claim an unknowing participation.

 

I have never claimed this.

[believed]

The only corresponding actions would be a divorce decree in his hand in my opinion. But even then you will always know that if he did it to his wife of 30 years he could also do it to you.

 

Beyond that he is 20 plus years older than you which means you will be young and taking care of a senior citizen in your 40's and 50's. Just a side note- you could have some "daddy" issues due to picking a man so much older than you.

 

Do you really want that for your life?

sugarmomma,

Deal:) Divorce or no interaction !

 

I don´t think I have a "daddy-issue". I have been around grown ups from I was newborn. I connect very well with all genders, men and female older than I. Of course I have friends of my own age, but who knows...

[believed]

Believed go pamper yourself. Go get the nails, hair pedicure done and then go out and shop with your head held high noticing all the gorgeous men out shopping for the holidays. Smile at them and just enjoy yourself proudly. Smile, forget about this situation for a bit and open your eyes to all the other people out there. Make eye contact with everyone you see.

I will do that! I really need it, haven´t pampered myself for over a year.... Horror...

[whichwayisup]

I will do that! I really need it, haven´t pampered myself for over a year.... Horror...

 

Time to put you first and focus on YOUR life, YOUR friends and reconnecting with others. He isn't making you a priority, so don't make him one!

 

Go and have fun, spend some $$ on yourself so you feel good.

[2sunny]

Mistake: My question was: should he live (not love) like this forever?

 

he is loving... he's loving the way he knows how = HIS comfort zone. he is used to it and will most likely change nothing. if nothing changes = nothing changes.

 

you can't presume to know why or how he stays. that is his to know.

 

it really doesn't matter anyway... YOU need to worry and think of YOU. stop worrying and thinking of him - he will be fine... assume that nothing will change and get moving forward with YOUR life.

 

you are young - and have a whole life ahead of you- he has been a distraction and a deterrent for you. let all that go and begin again- a new way to begin living by letting go of all of him and his baggage!

 

freedom... it awaits you!

[steelknife]

what is it in an affair that clouds our usual intelligent self to see things clearly as is and make a decision based on how it really is? im really sorry for what youre feeling. i felt waht you feel. and i know how much it hurts. the thing is, when youre in too deep, it seems hopeless to stop, actually, you CANT stop. your head screams red flag but you still go for it. but what for? and what expense? it took me big dday to finally end it. it was the pain secondary only to the lost of dignity and shame that finally did it for me. at the end of it all, i realized; i lost myself in all of it. i took all the pain, suffering, shame, lost of myself. for what and who? for snippet of time. for a person who couldnt even stand up for me.

 

the pain and humiliation is not worth it. at the end of the road, you realize you have no one but only yourself. where is he? with his family. and i was willing to do anything for him.

 

i never thought id find myself pining for the 26 months i lost so blindly in love with him. i put everything on hold. at this point i cant say i regret the affair, but i know i will. from where im standing now, the pain and the end just outweigh all the temporary good times and the choice he made. i blame no one but myself though.

 

i hope you find the courage to love yourself and walk away. if he knew exactly what he wants, then he would already had made a decision to stay with you. find it in your heart to love yourself. it is a very rough and rocky ride and totally not worth it. its not fair to hand on to an unclear "maybe" for an indefinite time. you will realize at the end of the day the time you lost waiting..

 

be strong. put yourself first. regardless of what is his case with his family and wife. put yourself first. take care keep posting.

[believed]

you can't presume to know why or how he stays. that is his to know.

 

True! I have tried to understand, be there... Didn´t work. I have seen in my close family how both illness and dead marriages destroy people. Maybe that made me so commited, because it is really not fair to live a dead life. In my family no-one tried to change, so they have themselves to "blame", but in MMs case change is not allowed. (If I give him credit for a second)

 

YOU need to worry and think of YOU. stop worrying and thinking of him - he will be fine...

 

I really DO have an issue not considering myself. When I respect, admire, trust and love I simply wipe myself out. I will take a second to think before each new action from now on.

 

assume that nothing will change and get moving forward with YOUR life.

 

I will!

 

let all that go and begin again- a new way to begin living by letting go of all of him and his baggage!

 

It really feels like a heavy load. I have taken all his problems, the pain of his family and my situation on my shoulders. I do feel a bit bitter thinking back that my doubt has been clear between us, but I fell for the reassurance. Blame me for that, but could I have acted differently, I would have.

 

freedom... it awaits you!

 

[believed]

what is it in an affair that clouds our usual intelligent self to see things clearly as is and make a decision based on how it really is?

 

I have been thinking the same. Are we not blinded the same way in any new relation? I would not have been able to keep it going for years. For me this has been falling blindly in love, but the pain and the suffering is taking me so low, that I have to stop. Strangely enough I find some kind of dignity on the bottom.

 

 

im really sorry for what youre feeling. i felt waht you feel. and i know how much it hurts.

 

I´m sorry you had to go through this as well!

 

it took me big dday to finally end it. it was the pain secondary only to the lost of dignity and shame that finally did it for me. at the end of it all, i realized; i lost myself in all of it. i took all the pain, suffering, shame, lost of myself. for what and who? for snippet of time. for a person who couldnt even stand up for me.

 

I recognize the feeling of shame and loosing yourself. I have a big problem looking any person in the eyes. I feel they should just know what a dirty person they are talking to. I really need to work on getting back my dignity and value.

 

the pain and humiliation is not worth it. at the end of the road, you realize you have no one but only yourself. where is he? with his family. and i was willing to do anything for him.

 

Yes, at the end of the road I have dealt with all the feelings by myself, but I came to a point thinking that I deserved the pain. No I only have myself, and i need to learn to face the world again.

 

 

from where im standing now, the pain and the end just outweigh all the temporary good times and the choice he made. i blame no one but myself though.

 

I´m getting to this point myself.

 

 

i hope you find the courage to love yourself and walk away.

be strong. put yourself first. regardless of what is his case with his family and wife. put yourself first. take care keep posting.

 

I will find the courage! I have god friends, some know the story, and they stand by me. I appreciate it very much, and sometimes I break down simply because someone gives me a smile or reaches out a hand. My selfworth has gotten very low.

 

Thanks for sharing!!

[steelknife]

i wish you well believed.

[believed]

i wish you well believed.

 

The same to you, steelknife! I have read your post, and I relate strongly to your history.

[pureinheart]

Hi Believed,

 

I have only read a few replies along with OP...WOW.

 

I am glad you are going NC, I am not particularly a fan of it, although in your sitch, I think it is the best thing.

 

You are dealing with a "family" of very disturbing dynamics. It could take years to unravel all of it. They all have their own "parts" that they play and they sound very "locked" in...MM is "trying", although it is very hard for these guys that feel such a tie even under horrible circumstances to actually leave. I am not trying to make you feel bad or discourage you, although what I am saying could be fact.

 

Believed, this is about YOU and what YOU want. I find sometimes with myself I loose sight of "me", I loose me...and it's real easy to loose ourselves in situations such as these...of course your tired, you've been carrying a lot on your shoulders that doesn't belong there...this is HIS M and his issues, if he asks you for advice that's one thing to help, although try not to take on too much (I know it's hard...I did it and that is why I am saying these things to you:))...anyway, take care Believe:)

[pureinheart]

Hi believed, what is the exact process (pretend you are explaining it to a two year old) you used in post # 68 to break up the quotes like that...others have tried to explain it but I still can't get it:)

[jj33]

Believed these are big red flags. Its very hard for anyone to leave a marriage after 30+ years. Harder when their children are against it.

 

Hes in a difficult situation. Was this woman always isolated and reliant totally on him with nothing else in her life? That was OK for 28 years and then suddenly when she gets ill, he realizes that he needs more in his life?

 

Very very very harsh for her even if you werent in the picture. She makes it through this illness and then he says I have had enough. You are on your own. The person who was the center of your world, decides hes through with you when you have come through 7 years of illness. That is probably many people's worst nightmare.

 

By the same token, if he really is very very unhappy, marriage is not a jail sentence. But he has his conscience to wrestle with.

 

Then you add to all that the fact that he has had an A and fallen in love with someone else. Even harsher for her.

 

And harsh for you as he goes NC without even the courtesy of telling you. What does that say to you? Forget the rest, as an OW that would be unforgivable. Absolutely unforgivable. And if I did forgive it once, I certainly wouldnt do it a second time. Hes showing you who he is with this behavior and you are excusing it because you want to believe that there must be some good reason for someone to disregard your feelings in this way.

 

NC is appropriate here. Hard as it may be, you need to live your life as if he is staying and try to move on. Tell him not to contact you unless and until he has instituted divorce proceedings. And then if he does come back, tell him the rules of the game have to change. No more of that behavior. You havent gone through all this to end up with a man who disregards your feelings and cant give you the simple courtesy of communicating with you honestly and openly (to me going NC without a word is a big red flag that he doesnt feel he has to communicate to others).

 

Take good care

[jj33]

Believed this also struck me as a red flag - unless I have misinterpreted it.

 

To clear the wife-theme. For her nobody else exist in her life but her husband. She doesn´t have hobbies, doesn´t socialize with ANY friends, but their children, travels only to an isolated summerhouse, and doesn´t even take her car even if she can drive. They have been talking for months trying to open up her world, he has told her she needs to find others to lean to, to have activities, a common project for their lives if they are getting old together. She refuses. She also refuses therapy.

 

The grown-up kids of course should step in, that´s why the MM are in constant talks with them about the situation. The wife accepts that a relation with no love is not possible, but in the moment he makes a move, she collapses. I can choose to believe it or not. MM says he needs to advance in the tempo that makes everyone accept the situation, if not he cant´enjoy a new life. I can believe it or not. I have no reasons for not believing it´s true, but that also makes it almost impossible to leave the marriage. From my point of view I have to think of my timeline.

 

When you say make a move do you mean romantically towards her? If so then this is not unusual. It can take time for a betrayed spouse to want to be intimate after a D day. Perhaps you mean make a move towards leaving.

 

Hard to say how realistic it is he will leave but it seems the cards are stacked against you. He could surprise you but its a very tricky situation.

 

Try your best not to "wait". It will take time but you will find yourself thinking of him less and less as time goes on

[whichwayisup]

The wife accepts that a relation with no love is not possible, but in the moment he makes a move, she collapses

 

I took that as, wife accepts that he is no longer inlove with her and when he makes a move (as in telling her he is going to leave and divorce her) she collapses.

 

Though I do even wonder if this part is true, if MM isn't exaggerating to suit himself best. (part in italics)