Women, what do you think?

[markandrew]

Hi all,

 

I realized recently that I need to change my demeanor, especially with women. I seem to trigger something negative.

 

If I meet guys/men either in cafes, stores, gym, etc, regardless of their age I usually can strike a conversation. Sometimes they are the ones initiating them. I get a positive response and I can tell they are enjoying the conversation and it seems to flow naturally.

 

With women, it's all the opposite. Sometimes they smile when I meet them in stores, rarely a hi, much less a conversation. It's almost as if I feel they fear that I would even attempt a conversation. I try to respect their space and realize many wouldn't want to have a conversation anyway, so I don't say anything. I think that if they want to talk they have as much a right to start one.

 

I'm 53 years old, bald (so I shave), short and of average built. Nothing too ugly but definitely not the best in looks.

 

Ex: This morning I was at the gym using the pool. While I was doing laps, a group of women went and sat down in the sauna. I usually go sit in the sauna when I'm done. So I waited for a while, they were three and I thought I'd leave them have their chat, maybe they would leave soon. After a while, I had to get going, I went to the sauna. I didn't feel I needed to say anything so I just enjoyed the heat (I love saunas, especially in the winter). Eventually, two of them left and I was left with this beautiful woman. Nothing was said. The next guy walks in and all of a sudden she's all talkative. Had it been a guy and I'd sit there in silence, usually they are the ones who would eventually start some type of conversation.

 

What do you think I do that scares the hell out of them like that. I try to be nice, respectful and even I avoid looking at them so they don't feel uncomfortable. Obviously my approach isn't working to my advantage.

 

Comments would be appreciated. Just be honest. thanks

 

Mark

[Mando3604]

You could start by saying "hey how's it going?" or even just a hi. Sometimes the silence is what's awkward and a girl most likely isn't going to be the one to say hi first. Or you could ask a random question like "do you know what time this place closes?" or "do you know of a good mom and pop shop to get breakfast? Ihop is overrated." Anything to break the silence really. And when you're asking questions during a conversation, don't ask ones you know could have a 1 word answer. Ask them what they think about stuff or how they feel about stuff. Women like to talk about themselves so anything to get them talking about themselves and you're golden. Hope I helped.

[markandrew]

Thanks. Just trying to learn . When you say to talk about stuff, could you give me a couple of examples. And, usually which parts of themselves do they like to talk about?

[Mando3604]

Talk about anything really. The weather, the holidays, what her plans are, if she has family coming into to town, etc. Women like to talk about anything pertaining to their lives. Ask them about work, about their families, where they grew up, if they have a big family or small family. It's good to be genuinely interested in their answers too. Just go from there. Know what I mean?

[markandrew]

allright, I'll give that a shot. thanks

[josie54]

One thing you left out of your description is how the other guy entered the sauna. That moment makes all the difference.

 

My assumption is that when you entered the sauna, you were deliberately trying to avoid eye contact. I know your intent was to give the women "space," which up to a point, is admirable. But when you go too far out of your way to do so, you become unapproachable. She probably assumed you didn't want to be bothered.

 

My other assumption is that when the other guy entered the sauna, he acknoweldged the woman's presence with eye contact. He probably smiled and said something simple like, "Hello" or "excuse me" or "is this space free?" That initial acknowledgement will open up the door for conversation.

 

I think that, unfortunately, your interactions with women are somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. At one or two points early on, you met a couple women who just didn't feel like talking, and then generalized that to all women, thinking that no women wanted to talk. And then, when you changed your behavior to be distant, that was true across the board--no women talked to you!

 

I would suggest that you treat every woman that you meet with the assumption that she will not mind exchanging pleasantries with you--if conversation develops from that great, but if not, don't take it personally. That particular woman probably has other things on her mind and doesn't feel like talking.

 

So you have to strike the right balance. First, always make the assumption that you have just as much right to be in a public space like a sauna or a checkout counter or wherever as anyone else. Second, make eye contact, smile, and do what anyone would do in that situation--say hello, excuse me, could you pass that magazine to me please? or whatever other exchange or acknowledgement is appropriate. I think you'll find that women's general overall reactions are much more positive.

 

On the other hand, I would advise against going into these exchanges with too much of a focus on "getting her to talk to you." When you're trying too hard, it can lend an air of tension that will make women uncomfortable. Just act naturally, be friendly, and don't take it all personally.

[markandrew]

Thanks Josie,

 

You are 99% correct. The 1% is that I do make eye contact, acknowledge their presence in a friendly manner. The rest, I'm just too stressed and uptight about it. I realized that today. I was at Borders and three people were talking, so I kind of added something, and we all starting talking. Eventually two of them left and I was left sharing a tea with a beautiful black women. It was fun and I know she enjoyed the conversation, it showed. After a while I just left her so she could read her book and rode into the sunset..lol. It made my day. God women are beautiful.

 

I've been reading about that lately and you're right when you say that I should " Just act naturally, be friendly, and not take it all personally". Like you said, maybe she has other things on her mind. I think I need to recognize the situations in which I can and those that I shouldn't. If I'm too introvert about it then I'll miss on the opportunities.

 

Thanks again

Mark

[thatsonlyme]

I completely agree with josie53, eye contact is more important than what you say. I would also add the body language. You need to appear confident, stand tall and give STRONG eye contact! now there is a fine line between good eye contact and staring but you'll have to figure that out yourself.

 

I was just like you few months ago and right now things have improved tremendously! just go out and practice, that's what I do. go to starbucks and try to maintain good eye contact with a barista, you will see an increased level of interest! from there it's a lot easier to chat her up with pretty much anything. Next time she'll remember you and you can chat with her again. other girls will notice as well and get more interested in you.

 

There was this girl at fast food where I go from time to time and I never spoke to her, she never remembered me, I was just a customer, just like everybody else. Then one day I walked in, gave her a strong eye contact and a big smile, noticed that she looked tired and mentioned it and BAM, we had a conversation going! Next time I went in I said something like "you look in much better mood today", showing her that I remember our last encounter and again we were talking. Now if I see her in a bar or club I can always approach her because she remembers me!

 

Do some research online on this subject and just go out and practice. trust me it works!

 

P.S. I just realized that you said you do make eye contact. if you're stressed and uptight, you have to change that. don't try to keep conversation formal, make it fun. tease them in polite and cocky way, don't be rude but don't shy away from making it slightly sexual if she appears receptive. simple "that's what she/he said" would do the trick to steer things in sexual direction and mature women would not get offended by that as long as you make it look funny. I met a girl at the party the other day and I started with being funny, then steered in sexual direction and I almost got laid that night (unfortunately I got too drunk)! this is not something that happens to me easily because I always treat women with respect. now I'm being a lot more playful and women are getting interested in me! now I can tell a woman "you suck" without her getting offended! if I tried to say that few months ago I would probably get a slap in my face.

 

good luck

Edited November 30, 2010 by thatsonlyme

[NewML]

Mark, I very happy to see that your last post was a good experience! If you go into each conversation like the one at Borders: friendly, open, kind and probably smiling. Just being yourself. Things will workout fine. Now each encounter of course, won't end with sitting down for a cup of tea and great conversation but you never know when you'll see that person again. Watch attitude, body language and the eyes when someone responds to you and make your greeting with confidence and Cheer. You want the person to know you're having a GREAT Day and you hope that they are too. Smiling can be contagious. A smiling face is a lovely sight; I always say.....Usually people can't help to smile back or make a comment about it. Just Be Yourself!