he has yet to confirm our date TODAY

[Star Gazer]

It's moot if he's a game player or not. What he is, is an arrogant and selfish jerk. So don't worry about justifying your actions.

 

I disagree. The reasons why she did something are important, and considering why she acts any given way is an important learning tool for her. Further, I think everyone should be justified in how they conducted themselves.

 

Also, I thought you said that she can "learn how to handle losers like this"? Isn't whether he's a loser, and what kind of loser, relevant to how she "handles him"? If he's a loser because he's a selfish flake, there's one way to "handle" him. I would suggest just nixing a selfish flake from her life. But if he's a loser because he's a gameplayer, you seem to advocate "handling him" by beating him at the game, and gave suggestions as to how. But it seems whether to play a "game" with him should depend on whether he's playing one to begin with.

 

I'm honestly not arguing with you (), I promise. I'm just trying to understand the difference... You seem to be advocating a certain result, without considering the means to get there. I guess I just think the means are equally, if not more important, than the ends...particularly when it comes to helping Shadow/Sky learn and grow.

[Mme. Chaucer]

He's already been nixed with "take care and good luck". If he responds again, what does that say about him?

 

Say he does, and she continues to engage with him.

 

Or, say he does not respond and she goes ahead and nudges him some more ... for failing to respond.

 

What does this say about HER?

[Star Gazer]

He's already been nixed with "take care and good luck". If he responds again, what does that say about him?

 

*shrug* It would depend on his response. "You too"? I wouldn't chalk him up to being an arsehole if he responded that way.

[northern_sky]

Mme, I think the relevant point is that it's DONE. I don't believe in all this raking the person over the coals after they've made the right choice. Maybe there was a more ideal way to "finish it." Does it really matter?

[northern_sky]

I don't think Shadow has any intention or interest of stopping the drama that she has orchestrated with this guy. From all I have read, I believe that she wants advice on how to keep picking at this scab, as it were, as long as humanly possible. Having ammo with which to "poke" him is helping to prolong it and fueling the drama.

 

That's her prerogative, of course. Since she posts about it with amazing detail and frequency here on LS, I feel that my comments and input are completely appropriate even though she does not feel that way. My hope is that some other person who might not like to be a train wreck might follow all of this and see the alternative perspectives offered. Of course I know that Shadow, or Northern_Sky, has no interest in any alternative approach than her usual tried and true pattern.

 

Seriously, I'll ask you politely again to leave my thread before I report you.

 

You obviously aren't trying to help me at this point, as you've already decided that nothing you say will influence my choices. The point of this thread is to give the OP advice, not to jab the OP and hope that other users take heed.

[BobSacamento]

No response is the same as responding. Responding might get you finality where in my experience with these kinds of idiots, no response equals an open door in the future.

 

When he said "Let's get together Sunday." and never gave a set time that should have been the finality.

[Star Gazer]

Mme, I think the relevant point is that it's DONE. I don't believe in all this raking the person over the coals after they've made the right choice. Maybe there was a more ideal way to "finish it." Does it really matter?

 

Of course it matters. Do you not believe in learning from mistakes, Shadow/Sky? Do you just... drive-by and never look back and see what you did? How you could have done better? I know I do, every single time. It's helped me a great deal. Self-reflection is an awesome tool for personal growth.

 

I don't think you're being raked over the coals at all, but I do think it's important to pay attention to your motives and methods in reaching a desired end result.

 

I can end a "relationship" any number of ways. I choose to do so with integrity. Luckily, from his perspective, the response you did, did just that. But next time, if a similar situation presents itself, I hope you'll avoid the giddy gamesmanship so that even after a long time passes, you can know you moved on gracefully and without the internal drama.

 

Baby steps, though. This is definitely progress in the right direction.

[threebyfate]

I don't think Shadow has any intention or interest of stopping the drama that she has orchestrated with this guy. From all I have read, I believe that she wants advice on how to keep picking at this scab, as it were, as long as humanly possible. Having ammo with which to "poke" him is helping to prolong it and fueling the drama.

 

That's her prerogative, of course. Since she posts about it with amazing detail and frequency here on LS, I feel that my comments and input are completely appropriate even though she does not feel that way. My hope is that some other person who might not like to be a train wreck might follow all of this and see the alternative perspectives offered. Of course I know that Shadow, or Northern_Sky, has no interest in any alternative approach than her usual tried and true pattern.

I think you're assuming something which I don't believe is true in this situation.

 

I disagree. The reasons why she did something are important, and considering why she acts any given way is an important learning tool for her. Further, I think everyone should be justified in how they conducted themselves.

 

Also, I thought you said that she can "learn how to handle losers like this"? Isn't whether he's a loser, and what kind of loser, relevant to how she "handles him"? If he's a loser because he's a selfish flake, there's one way to "handle" him. I would suggest just nixing a selfish flake from her life. But if he's a loser because he's a gameplayer, you seem to advocate "handling him" by beating him at the game, and gave suggestions as to how. But it seems whether to play a "game" with him should depend on whether he's playing one to begin with.

 

I'm honestly not arguing with you (), I promise. I'm just trying to understand the difference... You seem to be advocating a certain result, without considering the means to get there. I guess I just think the means are equally, if not more important, than the ends...particularly when it comes to helping Shadow/Sky learn and grow.

My honest opinion is that this guy is a gamer. Do you recall his profile comment paraphrased "looking for casual unless you're amazing" is a standard bolt phrase. He was aware that he was stringing her along and continued to do so. Cancelling while being sick is fine. That's life. Rescheduling and then openly admitting that he's forgotten about her isn't honest, it's par for the course of a selfish man, one that's blatantly so.

 

So with two emails that she sent, she in essence controls this situation. She shut him down in the second email with "take care and good luck".

 

Say he does, and she continues to engage with him.

 

Or, say he does not respond and she goes ahead and nudges him some more ... for failing to respond.

 

What does this say about HER?

What he says will define if she responds or not.

 

You're assuming that she will nudge him again. Neither you or I have the ability to foresee unless there's something you're not telling us. It's equally possible that she'll let this drop, now that she's empowered herself at his expense.

 

I don't call her guilty until she actually does something. Let's see how this plays out.

[welikeincrowds]

Can someone give me a recap of events re: this J guy?

 

Here's what I remember:

 

1. They meet at a party; they have mutual friends.
   
2. They hook up that night.
   
3. SP likes him, they meet up again. Night ends in hooking up.
   
4. They do that one more time. J tells her he's not looking for a relationship.
   
5. SP decides that it shouldn't be physical for a while, emails him to let him know. He complies.
   
6. They go on a date; SP doesn't think it went so well. They kiss.
   
7. (Details are a little fuzzy. SP decides J isn't right for her, I think.)
   
8. J is moving (to New York, I think?); SP finds out through Facebook. She confronts him, he apologizes?
   
9. J forgets about a date planned for today. J offers to reschedule; SP ends it.
   

 

I think there might be some lessons in here about what not to do. Forgetting about a date, for example.

[threebyfate]

When he said "Let's get together Sunday." and never gave a set time that should have been the finality.

This is your opinion.

[Star Gazer]

Seriously, I'll ask you politely again to leave my thread before I report you.

 

You obviously aren't trying to help me at this point, as you've already decided that nothing you say will influence my choices. The point of this thread is to give the OP advice, not to jab the OP and hope that other users take heed.

 

With all due respect, Shadow/Sky - just put her on ignore if you don't care for her brand of advice. Same with any other poster. To be honest, in many ways I think she's spot on, albeit more colorful/eloquent with her choice of words. Certainly someone here will benefit from what she has to say. In fact, what she says is yet another remind to myself to...check myself, and avoid negative patterns.

 

Just food for thought.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Really, just stay out of my threads. Everything you say is mean and unhelpful.

 

 

I know what I say is not helpful to you. I've told you before, in my own past I behaved in somewhat similar ways to you. Like you, I was not going to listen to (or even hear) anyone who was not, as we used to say in counseling lingo, "cosigning our bulls**t."

 

I believe that's all you're after here on LS, and clearly you are going to perceive anyone who calls you on your crap as "mean." Still, your threads are prolific and full of drama, and they attract a lot of attention. My hope is that some other woman who might really be ready to choose a different way might benefit from alternative perspectives, including mine.

 

Just put me on "ignore."

[Star Gazer]

Can someone give me a recap of events re: this J guy?

 

I've edited it for you.

 

• They meet through her roommate, who is dating his BFF. They share a similar group of friends.
  
• She comes across his OKC profile, which says he's only looking for casual/sex.
  
• They "connect" at a party at her house, wherein they have a lively/deep drunk conversation. They hook up that night. He tells her before he met her, he was only looking for casual/sex, but to see where it goes.
  
• She likes him, they meet up again. Night ends in hooking up. (I think she pukes this night.)
  
• They do that one more time. He again tells her he's not looking for a relationship.
  
• She decides that she can't handle sleeping with him while he's sleeping with/dating other people. Emails him to let him know. He agrees they're looking for different things, and that he wants to date other people.
  
• She regrets ending things because she likes him so much and felt a great connection, and retracts her email and offers to date him without sex. He complies.
  
• They go on a date, she doesn't think it went so well. They makeout.
  
• He continues to be "busy."
  [8]She waffles on whether to end it with him, based on a number of factors, including the fact that he's moving to NYC and didn't tell her.
  
• He forgets about a date planned for today, and offers to reschedule. She ends it.
  

[GooseChaser]

Looking at the whole thing, it seems like ending it was the best thing for everyone.

[threebyfate]

Looking at the whole thing, it seems like ending it was the best thing for everyone.

Yes, which was the intent all along. But she had some fun doing it.

[westrock]

So with two emails that she sent, she in essence controls this situation.

 

Why is there this need for control? What's the benefit?

 

It's equally possible that she'll let this drop, now that she's empowered herself at his expense.

 

Empowering oneself is good. But, don't you think empowering oneself at the expense of another is not healthy in the long run?

[northern_sky]

Why is there this need for control? What's the benefit?

 

 

 

Empowering oneself is good. But, don't you think empowering oneself at the expense of another is not healthy in the long run?

 

If he were invested, that'd be one thing. But he's clearly not. I doubt my email caused him any grief.

[threebyfate]

Why is there this need for control? What's the benefit?

 

Empowering oneself is good. But, don't you think empowering oneself at the expense of another is not healthy in the long run?

Refer to your second paragraph. It's a form of self-empowerment.

 

As far as healthy is concerned, depends on the situation and how often you do it. I have no problems with shoving a knife into someone who's been nothing but a dick to northern_sky.

[Star Gazer]

My honest opinion is that this guy is a gamer. Do you recall his profile comment paraphrased "looking for casual unless you're amazing" is a standard bolt phrase. He was aware that he was stringing her along and continued to do so. Cancelling while being sick is fine. That's life. Rescheduling and then openly admitting that he's forgotten about her isn't honest, it's par for the course of a selfish man, one that's blatantly so.

 

So with two emails that she sent, she in essence controls this situation. She shut him down in the second email with "take care and good luck".

 

I can understand why you think he's a gamer. I just see if differently.

 

I agree that he's selfish, and while I think his profile comment was hysterically arrogant, I don't chalk any of his comments or behavior up to gamesmanship. I thought it was just...straight up selfish arsehole-ish.

 

The reason I think this is because game players manipulate people for their own benefit, to get what they want. I guess, as sucky as this sounds, I don't think Shadow/Sky was something he wanted (and not personal to HER, he's just not relationship-oriented right now), so engaging in games just wasn't something he even needed to do. He was basically saying, "This is all the effort I'm gonna put in [practically nil], and if she's cool with that, awesome, I'll see/sex her. If not, no big deal. There are others, and I'm moving anyway."

 

While that's selfish, arrogant laziness, it's not gamesmanship. He's been straight up and honest from the get go.

[threebyfate]

I can understand why you think he's a gamer. I just see if differently.

 

I agree that he's selfish, and while I think his profile comment was hysterically arrogant, I don't chalk any of his comments or behavior up to gamesmanship. I thought it was just...straight up selfish arsehole-ish.

 

The reason I think this is because game players manipulate people for their own benefit, to get what they want. I guess, as sucky as this sounds, I don't think Shadow/Sky was something he wanted (and not personal to HER, he's just not relationship-oriented right now), so engaging in games just wasn't something he even needed to do. He was basically saying, "This is all the effort I'm gonna put in [practically nil], and if she's cool with that, awesome, I'll see/sex her. If not, no big deal. There are others, and I'm moving anyway."

 

While that's selfish, arrogant laziness, it's not gamesmanship. He's been straight up and honest from the get go.

We have different perceptions in this but the net result agrees. He's a dick-brain!

 

And with that, like I said to Westrock, I have no problems with shoving a knife into someone who's hurt and used Sky. No conscience at all about it, what-so-ever.

[Star Gazer]

We have different perceptions in this but the net result agrees. He's a dick-brain!

 

Indeed he is!

[westrock]

If he were invested, that'd be one thing. But he's clearly not. I doubt my email caused him any grief.

 

Ok fair enough. With your last message to him do you feel you have some closure or do you still want to see if he responds further?

[BobSacamento]

We have different perceptions in this but the net result agrees. He's a dick-brain!

 

And with that, like I said to Westrock, I have no problems with shoving a knife into someone who's hurt and used Sky. No conscience at all about it, what-so-ever.

 

It appears to me like she walked right into it. Is attempting to turn the tables on this guy going to prevent it from happening it again?

[threebyfate]

It appears to me like she walked right into it. Is attempting to turn the tables on this guy going to prevent it from happening it again?

Let me bring out my crystal ball to see what the future portends.

 

How would I know? But...it's been pointed out enough times to northern_sky, that she might learn something about her choices in men.

 

She's aware that she has a cycle of selecting a male prototype, one that's been counterproductive to her needs. I've personally pointed out to her more than once that playing the "proof" game is counterproductive. With this in mind, I'm more than willing to give Sky the benefit of the doubt for future. She's still in her mid-twenties so she's got more than enough time to work on this.

[northern_sky]

I need to trust my instincts about people[/i]. My first impression of him, which I actually posted on here before we hooked up, was dead on: that he was selfish, self-absorbed and arrogant. I even told my friend that I couldn't stand him after I first met him, and she agreed that he sucked (she met him at the same time). Every time I've first met someone, disliked them, then modified my negative impression, I've been burned later. Every single time without fail. I need to just trust myself and stop trying to win over aholes.