*fumbles for keys*, and he goes, "they're in your purse"

[rebellion]

well, new development on the 2-date guy. we went on a third date and all was well. then, when we go back in the car, i leaned in a bit, in a perfect kissing position, and he didn't pick up on it. (we've kissed before)

 

...which, okay, right?

 

so we drove around for an hour and he pointed out his ex's house. what?!

 

i tried the "where are my keys" bit, and he just told me to look in my purse... then he asked what was his prize, and, not knowing what to say, i said he could hold my hand. which he did, but made no attempt at anything else.

 

he also didn't tell me to text him when i got home. he always does, so he knows i made it there okay.

 

what does this mean? is he cooling down? pointing out the ex, not kissing me... don't hold anything back. this is my first real foray into the dating world and i'm coming here just because i don't know what it means.

[rebellion]

by the way, may i point out that i hate the dating game? i used to go out with a close friend of mine and oh my gosh, that was so much easier!!

[sally4sara]

Dating is a chore when you scrutinize their every word and action trying to figure out how into you they are.

 

Focus on how into them you are instead. Relax. Enjoy yourself. It doesn't matter how into you they are if you can't be yourself or enjoy their company. If you want a kiss, kiss them. If you want to be able to text him once you're safely in your home - do it. Be yourself! Do what you like.

 

If they respond negatively - eff them; they're not right for you.

If they do or say something you find weird or don't understand, just come out and ask for clarification.

 

Why are you showing me where your ex lives?

 

Quit being so passive.

[rebellion]

thanks for the advice. this is my first foray in the dating world -- were you that confident when you first started out? i don't try to scrutinize, but i have no idea how these things work!!

[sally4sara]

thanks for the advice. this is my first foray in the dating world -- were you that confident when you first started out? i don't try to scrutinize, but i have no idea how these things work!!

 

Yes; it didn't occur to me to be any other way even in HS. I got married really young; 19 years old (stupid don't do it). Back into the dating world at 27, at first I was timid. Till the first guy I dated pissed me off on date 3 and I remembered that I didn't have to like him and he wasn't the only guy on Earth.

 

Never forget that.

 

About the only advise I have beyond that is:

 

How does your date treat service workers? Does he speak well of his mother?

And

You don't know anyone till you see how they interact with their closest friends.

 

The rest is about you. Are you being treated in a way that you enjoy? Act how you want and be true to yourself. The right person for you won't require you to be anything else. And when you find yourself worried they won't like it if you (whatever it is you would do or want to do) do it anyway. Do it without hesitation. If they don't like it, find someone else.

[welikeincrowds]

thanks for the advice. this is my first foray in the dating world -- were you that confident when you first started out? i don't try to scrutinize, but i have no idea how these things work!!

 

No one is, and it's not "confidence" exactly. It's self-assertion.

 

In most social situations it's a skill to be a butterfly, to alight onto indiscriminate conversation and skirt controversies. But in dating, it's a little different. You want to act on what you're feeling, positive or negative. That means reaching into his pocket to hold his hand; that means calling him out on questions and answers that you don't like. It takes getting used to when you're taught to keep your feelings about others to yourself -- a behavior that, while dating, mostly works against you.

 

By the way, I doubt that "where are my keys" bit is ever going to work.

[mitchell]

.. then he asked what was his prize, and, not knowing what to say, i said he could hold my hand. which he did, but made no attempt at anything else.

 

 

He was fishing with this question. I suspect he wanted you to lean over and give him a third date blowjob while he was driving around. Likely he was disappointed at your offer of holding hands.

[welikeincrowds]

No one is

Yes; it didn't occur to me to be any other way even in HS

 

Apparently no one except for the bastion of confidence and maturity that is sally4sara; who had mastered interpersonal relationships and personal integrity even in HS; who was not born unto this world, but gifted.

[sally4sara]

Apparently no one except for the bastion of confidence and maturity that is sally4sara; who had mastered interpersonal relationships and personal integrity even in HS; who was not born unto this world, but gifted.

 

Its so funny when people are bothered about others not being shy.

 

It didn't occur to me that someone who sought my company would then expect me to be someone different.

 

But your company? I totally understand your reluctance.

[welikeincrowds]

Sick burn.

 

OP didn't need the one-two punch you gave her.

 

"Stop being so passive." Her behavior represents a personal failing.

"It was always easy for me." This personal failing is less natural or less excusable.

 

OP does not sound particularly shy, just confused about "what's right". OP's problem is one of experience. That is not how you framed it and you made it unfair.

[sally4sara]

Sick burn.

 

OP didn't need the one-two punch you gave her.

 

"Stop being so passive." Her behavior represents a personal failing.

"It was always easy for me." This personal failing is less natural or less excusable.

 

OP does not sound particularly shy, just confused about "what's right". OP's problem is one of experience. That is not how you framed it and you made it unfair.

 

I did NOT say it was always easy for me.

 

I was quite shy as a child due to abuse. I began to come out of my shell around 12 -13 because I got so tired of being afraid of others. I was too young to date at that time.

When I wanted to say something or do something but immediately felt fear over doing it, I began to do what I called eating the fear. I forced myself to do it anyway. Anything I would have previously been too afraid of, I began to seek out. Being in a play, going for the choir solo, spoken word poetry, dancing. By the time I was 15, I was much more confident and entering into dating wasn't a struggle of insecurities. If it was not the same for you - its not my fault.

 

While married, some of that confidence had been chipped away. Luckily not completely and it was easily rebuilt.

 

Be careful of people who get upset with you for being confident and try to make you feel bad about it such as this poster.

We are born confident. We learn insecurity. Anyone who tries to keep you in insecurity or is bothered by you being confident is a toxic person who needs you to feel ashamed so you don't out shine them or realize how much they think THEY suck.

[welikeincrowds]

Be careful of people who get upset with you for being confident and try to make you feel bad about it such as this poster.

We are born confident. We learn insecurity. Anyone who tries to keep you in insecurity or is bothered by you being confident is a toxic person who needs you to feel ashamed so you don't out shine them or realize how much they think THEY suck.

 

I can't believe you have the nerve to suggest that this was ever my point. Did you read my post to the OP above? I forgave her, offered my support, and followed with advice. That you call me "toxic" (???) because I disagreed with your approach is telling of your worldview. Your arrogance is absolutely incredible as it appears to know no end.

 

Furthermore, voicing your personal judgment of my character as further advice to OP was probably the most passive-aggressive and self-serving thing you could have done. I hope this behavior does not erroneously reflect on any good advice you have given here.

 

When I wanted to say something or do something but immediately felt fear over doing it, I began to do what I called eating the fear. I forced myself to do it anyway.

And oh gee will you look at that? You had to learn how to build your integrity through experience, just like every other human being. How about that.

 

Your experience of having no questions about how to act while dating since the age of 15 is not typical -- but the person whom you should be reminding is not at fault for this is the OP, not me. I already pointed out how your advice was insensitive in a previous post. The problem is that you keep thinking that I'm writing any of this for my benefit, or for yours. Who you are or what you believe in is of little consequence to me. My only concern here is to prevent you from doing any harm.

[EasyHeart]

Okay, then. Trying to get back on topic:

 

Basically, it sounds to me like you were disappointed because you were sending secret brain-wave messages to this guy, and he couldn't read your mind. The sad fact is that very few of us can (I assume there's something about the Y chromosome that blocks men's mind-reading powers, since all women seem convinced that they can read minds with 100% accuracy. ) I know it makes for a good romance story, but the second date is not the time to be testing a man's psychic powers.

 

Relax. Dating is supposed to be fun. It can't be fun if you're hyper-analyzing every thing you and he did. If he likes you, he'll ask you out again; if he doesn't, he won't. That's the only thing that you should be thinking about between dates 2 and 3.

[rebellion]

No one is, and it's not "confidence" exactly. It's self-assertion.

 

In most social situations it's a skill to be a butterfly, to alight onto indiscriminate conversation and skirt controversies. But in dating, it's a little different. You want to act on what you're feeling, positive or negative. That means reaching into his pocket to hold his hand; that means calling him out on questions and answers that you don't like. It takes getting used to when you're taught to keep your feelings about others to yourself -- a behavior that, while dating, mostly works against you.

 

By the way, I doubt that "where are my keys" bit is ever going to work.

that's a good way of putting it. thank you! i should've called him out on the "that's my ex's house" bit--what was that?! ugh.

 

and, well, that's how out of touch i am and is the only way i could think of bringing it to his attention, although i now see how ineffective that could be...

 

my question is, how do i take it from here? like, do i talk to him about all that transpired? we work together, so we see each other in our day to day if our shifts overlap. or do i just forget about it & wait for the next date?

 

oh and. i am picking up on a few things i can improve on--i do need to be more assertive. i don't mean to prolong my scrutiny by asking these questions but i'm feeling like he's sending me mixed signals and i really, really would appreciate any help on how to handle it.

 

thank you so much, welikeincrowds, for all your advice. sally4sara, i'll be honest and say i thought you were a bit abrasive (or maybe just excessively blunt) in some of your comments. i am shy, and most importantly, i'm inexperienced. i'm trying my best here with what i've got. i'll be better at it someday, but i just think i should tell you how things are so you understand where i'm coming from. it's not my predilection to be restrained by my shyness. this here is helping me gain some self-awareness. however way you put it though, thank you! you're right in that i need to be less passive.

[harmfulsweetz]

Dating is a chore when you scrutinize their every word and action trying to figure out how into you they are.

 

Focus on how into them you are instead. Relax. Enjoy yourself. It doesn't matter how into you they are if you can't be yourself or enjoy their company. If you want a kiss, kiss them. If you want to be able to text him once you're safely in your home - do it. Be yourself! Do what you like.

 

If they respond negatively - eff them; they're not right for you.

If they do or say something you find weird or don't understand, just come out and ask for clarification.

 

Why are you showing me where your ex lives?

 

Quit being so passive.

 

This.

 

Follow your feelings, allow yourself to explore what you feel, instead of focusing on his interest level. If you want to kiss him, lean over and kiss him. Men can't read minds anymore than we can, sometimes they need a little nudge.

 

It's tough, because you're feeling your way around and trying to work out the right way for you to tackle this, but it's important to not go into too much depth on this, overanalyzing etc, it's fun, but it also spoils the fun a little.

[sally4sara]

I can't believe you have the nerve to suggest that this was ever my point. Did you read my post to the OP above? I forgave her, offered my support, and followed with advice. That you call me "toxic" (???) because I disagreed with your approach is telling of your worldview. Your arrogance is absolutely incredible as it appears to know no end.

 

Furthermore, voicing your personal judgment of my character as further advice to OP was probably the most passive-aggressive and self-serving thing you could have done. I hope this behavior does not erroneously reflect on any good advice you have given here.

 

And oh gee will you look at that? You had to learn how to build your integrity through experience, just like every other human being. How about that.

 

Your experience of having no questions about how to act while dating since the age of 15 is not typical -- but the person whom you should be reminding is not at fault for this is the OP, not me. I already pointed out how your advice was insensitive in a previous post. The problem is that you keep thinking that I'm writing any of this for my benefit, or for yours. Who you are or what you believe in is of little consequence to me. My only concern here is to prevent you from doing any harm.

 

It was you who decided my advise was not earned and zero in on it with sarcasm.

 

Is my advise any different with some back story? Nope, same advise. And its the advise I give my friends when they start speaking from an insecure position. Being insecure and actively dating chews people up and makes them targets to people who want insecure partners. If you can't handle some blunt advise, you'd be best not dating at all. Quit being passive. Quit waiting for them to accept you first before being yourself. Instead focus on whether or not you accept them.

 

You did what many insecure people do when they come across less insecure people - try to pick them apart because you take their words as an insult to you for not being as confident. I'm not sure why, its not the worst thing on Earth to be insecure and its certainly not a permanent condition.

You assumed I said more than I did - that I was always confident rather than contemplating that I might speak from a place of experience and now you're upset for being wrong. Not my problem - your problem.

 

I'm not here for you. I'm posted for the OP. You can like or not like my advise; it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. That you're troubled despite it not being directed to you doesn't entertain me enough to continue engaging you in this manner. If ever, in some other thread, I slip up and actually become concerned enough to address you, I'll remember your tender little heart and spoon feed you tiny, coddling, and consoling bits as though you're a weepy child rather than an adult who shouldn't take complete strangers words so terribly to heart.

[sally4sara]

sally4sara, i'll be honest and say i thought you were a bit abrasive (or maybe just excessively blunt) in some of your comments. i am shy, and most importantly, i'm inexperienced. i'm trying my best here with what i've got. i'll be better at it someday, but i just think i should tell you how things are so you understand where i'm coming from. it's not my predilection to be restrained by my shyness. this here is helping me gain some self-awareness. however way you put it though, thank you! you're right in that i need to be less passive.

 

Of course you will! And you'll go back and forth many times in regard to believing in yourself. Just remember than until you believe in yourself enough to relax around someone else, you're not letting them get to know who you really are. Without that, any acceptance someone else gives you, you won't really trust because you'll know its not you they accept, but the you your fear showed them you were.

 

Good luck!

[welikeincrowds]

do i talk to him about all that transpired?

 

If you're concerned about whether or not he'll take you out again, a good thing to do is to let him know/remind him that you had a good time, and that you'd like to do it again. Usually that's all the tip someone needs to lean them in the right direction.

 

If you're concerned about missing the chance to speak your mind, you can relax, because you'll get another one. So far this stuff appears pretty minor to me. Easily resolved by another date. I would advise you to let the ex's house thing go, but if you find that you can't, then yeah, sure, bring it up, even at the risk of making him uncomfortable, or making you seem a certain way to him. If he reacts out of turn to your honesty, then **** what he thinks!

 

Personally, for all the times I have acted in this matter I have yet to regret it. As sally4sara said, you don't have to like him and it's just one guy, so there's nothing to be afraid of as far as his perceptions of you are concerned. If you're endeared to him, be endearing to him; if you're questioning him, question him. You can't go wrong!

 

Please excuse me for a moment:

 

You did what many insecure people do when they come across less insecure people - try to pick them apart because you take their words as an insult to you for not being as confident.

 

Is this is a joke?

 

Again, the arrogance. For someone who intends to "not be here for me," you keep insisting on making this somehow about me. Fine, do that. Meanwhile, OP has affirmed that my assertion was correct, and your advice was not wholly wrong, but callous.

 

I find it ironic that you would accuse me of taking the words of people on the internet personally, when you've been nothing but personal during our discussion. Especially at the end there; just try and tell me that your ego was not scalded (and who knows why???) when you're compelled to scribble out personal attacks like those. Well, that's too bad. At this point it appears there's nothing left to do but posture so let's end it here.

[Stung]

 

I find it ironic that you would accuse me of taking the words of people on the internet personally, when you've been nothing but personal during our discussion. Especially at the end there; just try and tell me that your ego was not scalded (and who knows why???) when you're compelled to scribble out personal attacks like those. Well, that's too bad. At this point it appears there's nothing left to do but posture so let's end it here.

 

Welikeincrowds, ordinarily I like your posts very much and find you quite insightful, hence my surprise at what you have derailed this thread into, and over what. Is it possible you need to go back and re-read your original post about S4S? You seem to be missing the part where you led with one hell of a personal attack, and entirely out of nowhere, without even attempting any kind of civilized disagreement.

 

You know, there's plenty of room on this open forum for both styles of advice. S4S might be a little blunter than you like, but she was in no way attacking the OP, merely offering a differing perspective. Personally I found something useful in what both of you had to say--when you were talking to the OP, rather than denigrating each other. It sounded to me like the OP did too. For what it's worth, I heartily agree with this portion of S4S's advice: "Quit being so passive." It did not come so easily to me at first, but now I wish someone had guided me to that conclusion much earlier in life.

[tami-chan]

No one is, and it's not "confidence" exactly. It's self-assertion.

 

In most social situations it's a skill to be a butterfly, to alight onto indiscriminate conversation and skirt controversies. But in dating, it's a little different. You want to act on what you're feeling, positive or negative. That means reaching into his pocket to hold his hand; that means calling him out on questions and answers that you don't like. It takes getting used to when you're taught to keep your feelings about others to yourself -- a behavior that, while dating, mostly works against you.

 

By the way, I doubt that "where are my keys" bit is ever going to work.

 

Thanks for this wlic!

 

Dating maturity takes a lot of practice and yes, "getting used to". Good thing, you are still very young! Have fun!

 

I am in my 30s, got married very young( never really dated around) and now divorced. I do not know if I ever want the "getting used to" part of dating. I think I just want to meet the man I will be with forever !

[Stung]

By the way, I have no idea what "keys bit" people are referring to here. Is this supposed to be some kind of universal tactic?

[waynesworld]

By the way, I have no idea what "keys bit" people are referring to here. Is this supposed to be some kind of universal tactic?

+1.

 

I'm also curious about what the "keys" bit is.

[rebellion]

the keys bit is stalling at the door to see if he'll kiss me. not sure how much it works. personally, i got it off some movie. i'm really inexperienced so i had no other way of expressing the "hey, kiss me!" sentiment. as weird as it is, i couldn't imagine myself just doing it. >.<

[harmfulsweetz]

the keys bit is stalling at the door to see if he'll kiss me. not sure how much it works. personally, i got it off some movie. i'm really inexperienced so i had no other way of expressing the "hey, kiss me!" sentiment. as weird as it is, i couldn't imagine myself just doing it. >.<

 

Best way to do it? Lean in for a cuddle, kiss him on the cheek, and move your lips to his lightly.

[Floridaman]

Rebellion, if I can ask, how old are you?