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I've made the mistake of being friends with my ex...


Quantum_Nuka

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I've been lurking on here for a while now, I posted a thread a while ago about second chances with your ex. The advice was good, but I did not follow no contact (I found it too hard at the time).

We broke up over 3 months ago, he told me that he was confused and I just wasn't the one, it's not you - it's me, I love you but I'm not in love with you... You get the picture.

He told me he wanted to remain friends and kept contacting me through text, email, Facebook and sometimes he would call me. It was like we were together sometimes... Looking back I would say he led me on. I had hope we would get back together sometime which is why I remained friends and kept low contact (I let him initiate the texts, calls etc).

I'd been to his house a few times, we hung out like friends (nothing happened), then the last time I went - A few weeks ago, things were fantastic but then he changed.

That night we were going to a gig (seperately) and when I saw him he would avoid me and hardly speak to me.

For about 3 weeks this has happened, then last night he texted me again out of the blue... Then he kept asking me to come online, which I did.

He then tells me, I have to tell you something and you're probably not going to like it.

My heart sank... I knew what was coming. I asked him what did he have to tell me, and he sort of went off the subject and again, I asked. He worded it like this: Oh yeah, I just might be seeing someone, not sure yet.

So f**king casual... I was angry and hurt at this, and he said he thought he should tell me, it might seem cruel but because we're FRIENDS I should know this stuff. He said I am the only ex he is friends with...

 

I feel so foolish. I am so hurt and I just don't know what to do. I thought that by being friends he would see, perhaps, what he is missing. But I realise I have fallen into a trap, he has gotten over it while I have been holding out hope for almost 4 months.

I don't know where to go from here, I am lost and I feel so horrible. I wanted to be with him so much, I love this man... But I've let him walk all over me and now I just don't know where to go from here.

NC does seem like the option but I just need words of advice and encouragement.

We have the same friends and hang at the same places so it's very hard for me to go NC/not see him ever etc.

I am 27, I don't need this ****. He is younger at 24 and I am sure the new girl he is seeing is 18. I feel useless right now :(

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I am so sorry you are going through this. However I have to say that I am glad I read this post. My XBF said the exact same thing to me about wanting to stay friends and I beleived him but I decided to go NC for my own benefit since I know that I am not strong enough right now to stay in his life and get over him.

I know that it is hard but you will find more strength everyday. Just take it moment by moment.

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Thank you for your kind words.

I think NC is best for you too, as you will probably end up like me if you remain friends with your ex.

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I meant to type this earlier, but had to go.

 

First of all, you're not useless!!! Don't let anyone tell you different. I'm sorry that your ex used you for his own selfish needs.

 

He's young and immature.

 

Try your hardest to stick to NC and remember that you deserve better!

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I don't think making him jealous will do anything... I am not like that anyway, I can't flirt with men I have no interest in.

 

Thank you Leandro.

I know, in time, I will feel better about myself... It's just so hard right now :(

And he still wants to remain friends? He said if his new gf doesn't like us being friends then he will remain single.

I just don't understand his thinking... Why does he think so highly of me, yet he doesn't want to be with me? I guess I have allowed it... And allowed myself to be an emotional crutch.

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I've been lurking on here for a while now, I posted a thread a while ago about second chances with your ex. The advice was good, but I did not follow no contact (I found it too hard at the time).

We broke up over 3 months ago, he told me that he was confused and I just wasn't the one, it's not you - it's me, I love you but I'm not in love with you... You get the picture.

He told me he wanted to remain friends and kept contacting me through text, email, Facebook and sometimes he would call me. It was like we were together sometimes... Looking back I would say he led me on. I had hope we would get back together sometime which is why I remained friends and kept low contact (I let him initiate the texts, calls etc).

I'd been to his house a few times, we hung out like friends (nothing happened), then the last time I went - A few weeks ago, things were fantastic but then he changed.

That night we were going to a gig (seperately) and when I saw him he would avoid me and hardly speak to me.

For about 3 weeks this has happened, then last night he texted me again out of the blue... Then he kept asking me to come online, which I did.

He then tells me, I have to tell you something and you're probably not going to like it.

My heart sank... I knew what was coming. I asked him what did he have to tell me, and he sort of went off the subject and again, I asked. He worded it like this: Oh yeah, I just might be seeing someone, not sure yet.

So f**king casual... I was angry and hurt at this, and he said he thought he should tell me, it might seem cruel but because we're FRIENDS I should know this stuff. He said I am the only ex he is friends with...

 

I feel so foolish. I am so hurt and I just don't know what to do. I thought that by being friends he would see, perhaps, what he is missing. But I realise I have fallen into a trap, he has gotten over it while I have been holding out hope for almost 4 months.

I don't know where to go from here, I am lost and I feel so horrible. I wanted to be with him so much, I love this man... But I've let him walk all over me and now I just don't know where to go from here.

NC does seem like the option but I just need words of advice and encouragement.

We have the same friends and hang at the same places so it's very hard for me to go NC/not see him ever etc.

I am 27, I don't need this ****. He is younger at 24 and I am sure the new girl he is seeing is 18. I feel useless right now :(

 

OMG OMG OMG!!!! I went thru the exact same thing and it is horrible!!!! The whole experience to a T. I had to totally change my world. My whole life has been so ****ed up behind being treated this way. I cant even believe you are talking about it. I hate what he did and how i got played. I hate it so much. My insides are still boiling. I hate that i still hae feelings for him cause he aint sh/it!!!

 

Immediately go NC and dont look back. The only way he deserves to hear your voice is if he is banging at your door begging you to talk to him. He is a jack ass!!!

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Wow really?

How are you going with NC? Does your ex still try to contact you?

 

The only way he deserves to hear your voice is if he is banging at your door begging you to talk to him. He is a jack ass!!!

 

 

This made me smile, thank you :) And it's totally right!

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WOW!!! I felt like i was reading my own story. Just like you, my ex broke up with me because of the whole "i love you but im not in love with you" ugh, whenever i hear that line i want to smack his face! anyway, we both decided to be friends so everyday we would talk and eat lunch or dinner, but it was hurting me because it felt like he's so close yet so far. Id give this to him though, i know that he wasn't stringing me along. I know that he cared about me and still loved me maybe not in the way it used to be anymore. But after 3 months i told him that i need to cut him out of my life because it was hurting me too much. i wasnt living a normal life anymore watching what he's doing every single day, wondering, who, what, where he is.

 

anyway, i said goodbye to him before we left for summer but who wouldve thought that right after i said "goodbye" he meets this 18 year old who just graduated from high school. I told you, kinda sounds like your story although my ex and I are both 21, well im turning 22 but yeah. When we came back to school and saw each other, i made the dumbest mistake of asking him out to lunch because we work together and its awkward so i wanted to clear the air. Basically, like your ex, he said theres someone else now but how easily and casually he said it hurts like crazy! I feel like before he was telling other girls he has a gf when it was still me, but now hes telling me that.

 

just like you, i also thought that staying as friends would make him feel the "spark" again or whatever it is he said is not there. but i do think that cutting him out of my life was the best decision i have made and i think you should cut him out of yours too. its extremely difficult and painful. trust me, i was just there especially the first week which by the way i ended up calling him coz i couldnt help it (someone slap me now) but he was so harsh on the phone that i lost all the urge to talk to him, i survived all summer of not talking to him. now that we're back to school. ive seen him a few times at work but thats it. i dont really like using cliches but this is really true at least for me, time does make everything better. it really does get better everyday. i dont know how i did it. for sure, i didnt wake up one day thinking im okay because i wouldnt say im completely okay now. with the holidays coming up and his annoying new gf posting stuff all over facebook, i still have my emotional moments. but i get over these things easily now. i dont know if its just me being numb or i really just got tired of crying all the time (i was crying everyday for 6 months) but sometimes, when i think about him, all i can think of is anger or nothing. im not gonna lie and say i dont have moment where i wish he's with me. but whenever i have those thoughts, i just keep thinking of all the things i went through because of him and this break up (lost weight, failed school, too late to apply to grad school, almost got fired from job, got sick and etc). Of course you cant be angry forever because thats stops you from moving on as well. I feel like a hypocrite saying that coz im doing that right now. Im so angry that a lot of my actions are still base on how he'd react but this time more of trying to get back at him but it really isnt working because i dont think he really cares anymore.

 

I definitely know how you're feeling. As weird as it sounds, i thought this year would go by slowly but it actually went by so fast that i cant believe its been 9 months since the break up. It went by fast maybe because i try to just go by and survive everything i have to go through day by day. And then you realize months from now that "wow, i have been a lot better than i was" because even if im still in this emotional rollercoaster, i am proud of myself and know that i have come a long way. I know you will too! You can do this! I promise you. :)

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WOW!!! I felt like i was reading my own story. Just like you, my ex broke up with me because of the whole "i love you but im not in love with you" ugh, whenever i hear that line i want to smack his face! anyway, we both decided to be friends so everyday we would talk and eat lunch or dinner, but it was hurting me because it felt like he's so close yet so far. Id give this to him though, i know that he wasn't stringing me along. I know that he cared about me and still loved me maybe not in the way it used to be anymore. But after 3 months i told him that i need to cut him out of my life because it was hurting me too much. i wasnt living a normal life anymore watching what he's doing every single day, wondering, who, what, where he is.

 

anyway, i said goodbye to him before we left for summer but who wouldve thought that right after i said "goodbye" he meets this 18 year old who just graduated from high school. I told you, kinda sounds like your story although my ex and I are both 21, well im turning 22 but yeah. When we came back to school and saw each other, i made the dumbest mistake of asking him out to lunch because we work together and its awkward so i wanted to clear the air. Basically, like your ex, he said theres someone else now but how easily and casually he said it hurts like crazy! I feel like before he was telling other girls he has a gf when it was still me, but now hes telling me that.

 

just like you, i also thought that staying as friends would make him feel the "spark" again or whatever it is he said is not there. but i do think that cutting him out of my life was the best decision i have made and i think you should cut him out of yours too. its extremely difficult and painful. trust me, i was just there especially the first week which by the way i ended up calling him coz i couldnt help it (someone slap me now) but he was so harsh on the phone that i lost all the urge to talk to him, i survived all summer of not talking to him. now that we're back to school. ive seen him a few times at work but thats it. i dont really like using cliches but this is really true at least for me, time does make everything better. it really does get better everyday. i dont know how i did it. for sure, i didnt wake up one day thinking im okay because i wouldnt say im completely okay now. with the holidays coming up and his annoying new gf posting stuff all over facebook, i still have my emotional moments. but i get over these things easily now. i dont know if its just me being numb or i really just got tired of crying all the time (i was crying everyday for 6 months) but sometimes, when i think about him, all i can think of is anger or nothing. im not gonna lie and say i dont have moment where i wish he's with me. but whenever i have those thoughts, i just keep thinking of all the things i went through because of him and this break up (lost weight, failed school, too late to apply to grad school, almost got fired from job, got sick and etc). Of course you cant be angry forever because thats stops you from moving on as well. I feel like a hypocrite saying that coz im doing that right now. Im so angry that a lot of my actions are still base on how he'd react but this time more of trying to get back at him but it really isnt working because i dont think he really cares anymore.

 

I definitely know how you're feeling. As weird as it sounds, i thought this year would go by slowly but it actually went by so fast that i cant believe its been 9 months since the break up. It went by fast maybe because i try to just go by and survive everything i have to go through day by day. And then you realize months from now that "wow, i have been a lot better than i was" because even if im still in this emotional rollercoaster, i am proud of myself and know that i have come a long way. I know you will too! You can do this! I promise you. :)

 

Wow, your story is so amazing and yes, it is very close to mine.

 

I do believe time does heal, but it's hell when they go to the same places as you do. And you with School you see him sometimes... Ugh.

If he came back to you and apologised, would you accept it?

Does he try to even speak to you or does he just ignore you?

 

I like to think through all this he will come back but I know deep down he probably won't.

I'm just finding it really hard atm, he wanted to be with me for life, wanted to have children - And thats a big one for me because I didn't like kids till I met him and we spoke about it... That's whats tearing me apart, all the things we planned and the things he used to say to me :(

 

I have also cried every day for about 4 months now... I hate it. I cry myself to sleep, and right now I feel teary just thinking about it :l

 

And thanks so much for your reply :) It's really helped a lot.

It seems like you're doing much better than before NC. It really does help huh...

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Wow really?

How are you going with NC? Does your ex still try to contact you?

 

The only way he deserves to hear your voice is if he is banging at your door begging you to talk to him. He is a jack ass!!!

 

 

This made me smile, thank you :) And it's totally right!

 

No. I put a stop to it in early October and Im glad I did even though I feel so much pain. He was texting me to see how im doing and **** like that. I told him I was still hurting. That lead to me telling him good bye for good and vice versa. I have never felt so much heartache in my life and i still feel it deep within. crying even still. I just want to heal and i guess one day it will all be better but right now I still cry about it from time to time.

 

Your best bet is to cut him loose. Dont let him text you all that. You will think he wants to be together when all he wants is to just be in your life and then push you aside when he dont. its no fun.

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WOW!!! I felt like i was reading my own story. Just like you, my ex broke up with me because of the whole "i love you but im not in love with you" ugh, whenever i hear that line i want to smack his face! anyway, we both decided to be friends so everyday we would talk and eat lunch or dinner, but it was hurting me because it felt like he's so close yet so far. Id give this to him though, i know that he wasn't stringing me along. I know that he cared about me and still loved me maybe not in the way it used to be anymore. But after 3 months i told him that i need to cut him out of my life because it was hurting me too much. i wasnt living a normal life anymore watching what he's doing every single day, wondering, who, what, where he is.

 

anyway, i said goodbye to him before we left for summer but who wouldve thought that right after i said "goodbye" he meets this 18 year old who just graduated from high school. I told you, kinda sounds like your story although my ex and I are both 21, well im turning 22 but yeah. When we came back to school and saw each other, i made the dumbest mistake of asking him out to lunch because we work together and its awkward so i wanted to clear the air. Basically, like your ex, he said theres someone else now but how easily and casually he said it hurts like crazy! I feel like before he was telling other girls he has a gf when it was still me, but now hes telling me that.

 

just like you, i also thought that staying as friends would make him feel the "spark" again or whatever it is he said is not there. but i do think that cutting him out of my life was the best decision i have made and i think you should cut him out of yours too. its extremely difficult and painful. trust me, i was just there especially the first week which by the way i ended up calling him coz i couldnt help it (someone slap me now) but he was so harsh on the phone that i lost all the urge to talk to him, i survived all summer of not talking to him. now that we're back to school. ive seen him a few times at work but thats it. i dont really like using cliches but this is really true at least for me, time does make everything better. it really does get better everyday. i dont know how i did it. for sure, i didnt wake up one day thinking im okay because i wouldnt say im completely okay now. with the holidays coming up and his annoying new gf posting stuff all over facebook, i still have my emotional moments. but i get over these things easily now. i dont know if its just me being numb or i really just got tired of crying all the time (i was crying everyday for 6 months) but sometimes, when i think about him, all i can think of is anger or nothing. im not gonna lie and say i dont have moment where i wish he's with me. but whenever i have those thoughts, i just keep thinking of all the things i went through because of him and this break up (lost weight, failed school, too late to apply to grad school, almost got fired from job, got sick and etc). Of course you cant be angry forever because thats stops you from moving on as well. I feel like a hypocrite saying that coz im doing that right now. Im so angry that a lot of my actions are still base on how he'd react but this time more of trying to get back at him but it really isnt working because i dont think he really cares anymore.

 

I definitely know how you're feeling. As weird as it sounds, i thought this year would go by slowly but it actually went by so fast that i cant believe its been 9 months since the break up. It went by fast maybe because i try to just go by and survive everything i have to go through day by day. And then you realize months from now that "wow, i have been a lot better than i was" because even if im still in this emotional rollercoaster, i am proud of myself and know that i have come a long way. I know you will too! You can do this! I promise you. :)

 

So real and so true how you put this together. Im still crying and aching and mad so I really cant say much but thank you for making me feel normal again. I thought I was the only one who was out here going thru this kind of hurt and pain. I really appreciate you and the op sharing their story. I needed it.

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I read your post 9lives, about how to cope knowing your ex is with someone else.

I too have fallen into the Facebook trap of looking through his stuff :l I keep trying to find out who this girl is. It's so horrible, I need to make an effort not to look.

 

I agree with you too, it's good that we have these forums with people who go through similar as we can help each other. We always think we're the only ones going through this, so it's good to have a support system like LS.

 

He called me tonight and I answered... I shouldn't have but I did. It was just a casual conversation... I do wonder if he calls to hear my voice and to keep his foot in the door :confused:

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I read your post 9lives, about how to cope knowing your ex is with someone else.

I too have fallen into the Facebook trap of looking through his stuff :l I keep trying to find out who this girl is. It's so horrible, I need to make an effort not to look.

 

I agree with you too, it's good that we have these forums with people who go through similar as we can help each other. We always think we're the only ones going through this, so it's good to have a support system like LS.

 

He called me tonight and I answered... I shouldn't have but I did. It was just a casual conversation... I do wonder if he calls to hear my voice and to keep his foot in the door :confused:

 

yeah he calls to make sure you are still around for him but he is with that girl now and you are just his friend. i know it is hard not to answer. I would just leave him alone. You are going to get hurt real bad.

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Deep down I know... It was just hard not answering his call.

He told me she knows we still speak and are friends... I can't see that lasting too long.

I think he will stop speaking to me eventually anyway.

Day one of NC, which is a bit hard as I am going out tonight and I think he will be there too. I will have my friends with me.

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Deep down I know... It was just hard not answering his call.

He told me she knows we still speak and are friends... I can't see that lasting too long.

I think he will stop speaking to me eventually anyway.

Day one of NC, which is a bit hard as I am going out tonight and I think he will be there too. I will have my friends with me.

Yea, I've read that friendships with ex's eventually die away. She isn't going to like him talking to you, and you next partner isn't going to like you talking to him. Good luck tonight, stay with your friends and pretend to be happy.

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So real and so true how you put this together. Im still crying and aching and mad so I really cant say much but thank you for making me feel normal again. I thought I was the only one who was out here going thru this kind of hurt and pain. I really appreciate you and the op sharing their story. I needed it.

 

You're welcome. It helps me when someone shares their story so im glad it helps that im sharing mine with you guys. Sometimes it makes you feel better to know you're not the only one going through this. And yes, everything you're going through is normal. If you don't mind, how love have u and ur ex been broken up?

 

Wow, your story is so amazing and yes, it is very close to mine.

 

I do believe time does heal, but it's hell when they go to the same places as you do. And you with School you see him sometimes... Ugh.

If he came back to you and apologised, would you accept it?

Does he try to even speak to you or does he just ignore you?

 

I like to think through all this he will come back but I know deep down he probably won't.

I'm just finding it really hard atm, he wanted to be with me for life, wanted to have children - And thats a big one for me because I didn't like kids till I met him and we spoke about it... That's whats tearing me apart, all the things we planned and the things he used to say to me :(

 

I have also cried every day for about 4 months now... I hate it. I cry myself to sleep, and right now I feel teary just thinking about it :l

 

And thanks so much for your reply :) It's really helped a lot.

It seems like you're doing much better than before NC. It really does help huh...

 

ur very welcome. im glad to have helped even just a little. :)NC isnt really for everyone. i didnt listen to people when they told me to stop talking to him or seeing him because i know im gonna regret it so i had to wait until I truly wanted it and not because everyone is telling me that thats the right thing to do. sounds dumb but i waited till i was hurting too much that i know i really need to do this. i dont want to but i need to. there are times when i look back even until now and i wonder if i never went away, would he still have went for her? how couldve things been if i stayed? just last night i was crying thinking about these thoughts as i was also trying to help out a friend whos recently been broken up by her bf.

 

when we first saw each other again, he was coming out of the restroom and i was going in. we just said a simple hi and bye. a few hours later, he did approach me but that was it. he hasnt approached me first since then but i have. i stopped though.

 

hes apologized to me so many times for hurting me. our last conversation about 2 weeks ago was actually about how every time he sees me, his guilt is killing me for what hes done to me. i can see that though and he can see that im still affected. and sometimes i actually feel bad for him that hes still feeling guilty about it until now. but i just think that, "why am i gonna feel bad? im still freaking hurting and hes already happy!" i keep going back and forth whether or not i have forgiven him. sometimes i feel like i have because i do defend him in the sense that i know he didnt want to hurt me because he was staying in the relationship so he doesnt hurt me even if he isnt happy anymore. yet at the same time, for everything i have been through, i feel like i cant forgive him, at least right now. it feels so unfair that im the one whos been broken up with and the one hurting but in the end, hes the one happy with someone else, celebrating xmas happily with someone else. while all i do is cry and i feel so alone.

 

i totally understand how your feeling. its so hard to believe that a guy who once told you that he wants to spend the rest of his life with you and have kids with you, ended up hurting you and leaving you. i think thats partly why i havent moved on. i still hold on to the things he said and until now (yes, evem after 8 months) i still cant believe that the person who told me i was his life and that he cant live his life without me, left me and is now with someone else.

 

do you see your ex a lot still? does he still contact you??

 

crying makes you feel better so cry all you want. i think sometimes thats how i got through this. i cried everything out to the point where sometimes i feel that i have to force my tears to come out.

 

do try to find a hobby (i hated it when people suggested it to me) but i feel that once you find a hobby and you learn something new, you'd feel better about yourself. you'd feel proud of yourself. sometimes i think of it this way, i know how to do something that he and his new gf dont know how to do (gosh, i sound bitter)

 

how are you doing today??

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It was hard, I was pretending to be happy but I think he saw through it.

We didn't really speak, he wasn't really looking at me, always had his back to me... That's fine.

I returned the last of his things, said goodbye and that was it.

But... I feel like it isn't goodbye forever and I don't know why I feel like that. I'm usually right about gut instincts.... It's goodbye for now though and I don't know how long.

I actually wished him well over Christmas and to take care, he said thanks. He looked a little sad but there is nothing I can do about that now.

 

I'm okay today though, I did not cry today... I think it's sunk in what is going on and why I need to go NC or if he contacts me, LC... I find it hard to ignore people because like you marigo, I feel the same way about moving on - I can't seem to because I think of all the things he said to me, and I hang on to it :(

He does contact me every now and then through text or Facebook, sometimes he will call like he did yesterday... But that's not often.

 

lol! What hobby did you take up? I am thinking something arty like Photography as I haven't done it before!

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It was hard, I was pretending to be happy but I think he saw through it.

We didn't really speak, he wasn't really looking at me, always had his back to me... That's fine.

I returned the last of his things, said goodbye and that was it.

But... I feel like it isn't goodbye forever and I don't know why I feel like that. I'm usually right about gut instincts.... It's goodbye for now though and I don't know how long.

I actually wished him well over Christmas and to take care, he said thanks. He looked a little sad but there is nothing I can do about that now.

 

I'm okay today though, I did not cry today... I think it's sunk in what is going on and why I need to go NC or if he contacts me, LC... I find it hard to ignore people because like you marigo, I feel the same way about moving on - I can't seem to because I think of all the things he said to me, and I hang on to it :(

He does contact me every now and then through text or Facebook, sometimes he will call like he did yesterday... But that's not often.

 

lol! What hobby did you take up? I am thinking something arty like Photography as I haven't done it before!

 

Well marigo and Quantum_Nuka

Today is Dec 1, 2010 - We all have been burnt by these men and been hurt very deeply and I Thank GOD that you two ladies shared your story cause it was such a blessing and I needed it so much. I needed you both to share it.

As far as Im concerned now....Marc(ex) is dead! I have started writting and telling myself that cause I want to get over this horrible experience.

 

Marc is dead. Dead people dont talk, dont text, dont call. For the next 30 days I am not going to do anythtng to put me in rut. Im going to stand on better days and put this disgusting thing behind me. I hate him. I need to really get over it cause I dont want to hate anyone but I hate the pain and the things he did and how he treated me. Marc is dead!!

 

Dec 1, this day---Im not looking back....marc is dead!

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I am glad we have helped you in some way 9Lives.

It's also helped me hearing other women in the same boat... I don't know about you but sometimes I am a bit of a door mat and I need to work on myself a lot now and not take s**t.

 

And good for you! I hope treating him like his dead helps you, and it probably will. It's like he does not exist and now you can push on and live your life.

You do not deserve the horrible treatment you have endured.

No one does! You deserve happiness and love :)

 

I am also keeping a diary, I started last night. It's already helping :)

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I am also keeping a diary, I started last night. It's already helping :)

That's good. I have my log which helps me too. It's pretty cool to look back threw it and see how much progress you have made. Keep it up! :)

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Thanks Leandro :) I like reading your posts/log.

And it's true, it's good to see the progression throughout the diary. I'll get there eventually.

 

He contacted me today via text. It was random, I replied but I was short, right to the point. He sent another one and I did not reply to it. Usually, I would have replied to it and been the last person to send a message but not this time.

Sounds kind of petty when I put it in words but I'm showing self control by not sending more and more texts trying to get a conversation out of him (if that makes sense?).

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