This particular BS' point of view

[pureinheart]

I just finished reading a thread on this board and was dismayed at some of the opinions. So, with that in mind I decided to start my own thread.

 

I do not believe that every affair is bad.

 

I believe that it is quite possible for an MM (or MW) to leave a marriage and end up very happily with their former affair partner.

 

I do not think "once a cheater always a cheater", nor do I think that because a relationship began as an affair that it means their later marriage is "doomed" to failure.

 

I do think that good CAN come out of an affair, whether the affair "succeeds" or the marriage "succeeds" - and I do not believe that simply because a marriage continues to exist that constitutes success.

 

I do not believe that because a marriage was made "before God" that it is automatically the right thing for both people in the marriage. And if it is not right for both people, then it is not right.

 

I think many people who are in affairs are wonderful, kind, loving, generous, thoughtful (and thought provoking) people.

 

I think I'm tired of seeing God used to bludgeon people into doing (or thinking) one way. If you can't see that God loves all people, then you may need to expand your views a bit.

 

I think that every one of us gets challenged by life every day. We can rise to the challenge and use it to change us for the better, or not. We can grow in kindness or become sullen and sour. We can act as if the world needs to change to fit us or realize that the world is just a bunch of people as equally challenged as we are. The world is what we make it, for ourselves as well as others. This is just an anonymous board, but if we choose to be cruel and heartless anonymously, it doesn't speak well of how we act when others see us.

 

This is very well said ST, thank you...

 

First bold...there is a big difference in 'before God' and 'of God'...IMO all of us do everything before Him...although all of it isn't His perfect will, nor even His permissive will.

 

I have a stepsister who beats everyone up in the name of God, and calls it tough love...they need to hear it, she says. I don't like talking to her because I feel like I'm under the "holy" microscope and will be judged for everything I say....yuk.

 

God has called people in His name to bring a person/people/nations to repentance (understanding)...many think they are the called people, I rarely see the true gift in operation and of God.

 

 

 

Second bold....anonymous or not, there are real people behind the keyboards, and I would venture to say that is how the person is "in real life". I have encountered cruel and rude people and avoid them like the plague.

[pureinheart]

Your words leave me speechless; they are kind, open minded and honest.

 

You should be awarded for your ability to look outside yourself and see the big picture and in your thread you have proven you can.... You are one in a million and I feel privileged that I stopped to read your post

 

Thank you for sharing a part of yourself!!!

 

I am grateful.

 

ST has always been cool, she was very supportive when I first joined LS...she mostlikely supported me, I can't remember and would need to re-read past threads...

[pureinheart]

Just because an OW and a MM are human and consequently will make mistakes, doesn't give them the right to be forgiven and not castigated for their actions that have caused untold hurt.

 

Just because an OW and a MM end up together in a successful relationship doesn't mean their affair should be forgiven and not condemned for causing untold hurt.

 

Just because and OW and a MM are kind, thoughtful, generous people in other aspects of their lives, doesn't give them the automatic right to understanding and compassion when their actions are the opposite of kind, thoughtful and generous and have caused untold hurt.

 

Just because two people who are married to one another, aren't as right for one another as they need to be to have a successful marriage, doesn't give either of them the automatic right to have an affair which will cause untold hurt.

 

Finally, no affair can be condoned, whether or not the consequences of it are good. In the case of an affair, the end never justifies the means.

 

I understand the sentiment OP, and whilst being cruel and heartless towards someone who doesn't deserve it is actually as destructive to the person feeling those emotions as the person on the receiving end, there is absolutely no responsibility for the BS to feel anything but intense dislike towards the OW, or MM and threads like these annoy the hell out of me for the implied pressure on the BS to be this saintly person with no right to the pain her husband and his OW have caused her.

 

Turnstone, the OP is a person completely healed, carries no bitterness, and believes that what is meant to be will...AND accepts that, not living in a past that can't be changed, continually blaming and complaining about how horrible that particular person is/was...it is a person walking in complete forgiveness and understanding.

 

Bold...implied pressure? No where did I see this implied, inferred, or any other term. It describes a person that sees things the way they really are and that blaming does no one any good at all...if anything was implied it was that.

 

It is a responsibility of the BS to dislike the OW or MM...wow....I was a BS more times than MANY on these boards, so with a great deal of experience I can tell you I never had .01 of the hatred that I see here. Quite frankly, I can completely see how A's happen and why.

[September]

Silktricks...Big Thumbs Up!

 

Every story and situation is different even though so many people feel they are "same old, same old". I applaud your refreshing attitude....

[NoIDidn't]

Silk

 

No comment on your "perspective".

 

I just think its really sad that you even felt the need to post such.

 

I don't understand why, after countless and endless debates and discussions here, some posters still seem to think that BS only have one thought about affairs and OPs.

 

Truly a sad post indeed. Proof that people are still only viewed as labels here...

[turnstone]

Turnstone, the OP is a person completely healed, carries no bitterness, and believes that what is meant to be will...AND accepts that, not living in a past that can't be changed, continually blaming and complaining about how horrible that particular person is/was...it is a person walking in complete forgiveness and understanding.

And? That's not relevant to my point that the BS doesn't have to see the OW or the MM in anyway that benefits them. I doubt it would even help the BS to feel anything but indifference towards them and hate is not a step that can be bypassed with long term healthy outcome.

 

Bold...implied pressure? No where did I see this implied, inferred, or any other term. It describes a person that sees things the way they really are and that blaming does no one any good at all...if anything was implied it was that.

And I do see it.

 

It is a responsibility of the BS to dislike the OW or MM...wow...

Ha! That's an inference and a half!

 

.I was a BS more times than MANY on these boards, so with a great deal of experience I can tell you I never had .01 of the hatred that I see here. Quite frankly, I can completely see how A's happen and why.

Implying the BS is such a hateful person, its no wonder her husband cheats on her? Yah. I mean really, how could she feel hate after her life has been ripped so totally and utterly apart in one of the cruellest ways possible?

 

I don't feel hate towards the OW either. I feel nothing really except maybe slight distaste for their actions, but I will not castigate a BS who acts out after discovering her husband's affair(s) or give any impression that she needs to do anything but help herself and in that vein, I don't believe that jumping to compassion and understanding - either straight away or even further down the line - is essential to her healing.

[myname]

While it's all well and good to say that one can forgive someone who has hurt you greatly, sometimes that isn't a completely fair expectation to have of someone.

 

I am sorry, but I can not forgive the woman my husband had the affair with... not so much because of what she did to me- I am an adult and have to take what comes along and deal with it, but she hurt my three children terribly, and she didn't care. She looked my three crying children right in the eyes and saw the pain in the only three completely innocent people in the whole situation and it didn't faze her one bit. How am I to forgive that?

 

I know it may sound like a "double standard", but I have forgiven my husband, as I figure I had somewhat of an "equal share" in the whole thing... we weren't being very good to one another, and he had been hurt by my actions. This does not excuse his behavior, but it does explain it and i can live with that. He truly wanted me to forgive him for the choices he made, and I have . It is a gift I gave not only to him, but to myself and my children as well.

 

In the case of the woman he had the affair with,I had done nothing at all to her, I had never even met her , my children did nothing to her, and yet she hurt them terribly. This I cannot forgive.

 

She did ask me once for forgiveness, but it was a thinly veiled attempt to justify her actions " you should forgive me as it was all your fault anyway"- she did not ask this because she felt bad, she asked me to forgive her so that I wouldn't report her actions. She was afraid of what I could do to her, and she still is.

 

In my humble opinion, there are some acts that can't be forgiven, nor should they be. I have truly thought about it, and it's not bitterness that keeps me from forgiving her, but rather the idea that she did something very wrong ( in my book, at least, and I know some will disagree) and does not deserve my forgiveness, and, quite frankly, perhaps it is not for me to forgive her. She sees nothing wrong with what she did, so how can one forgive the actions of someone who doesn't truly want forgiveness?

 

This is not to say that I wish her harm nor unhappiness.If I saw her wounded on the side of the road I would help her, but I do not do that for her, but for myself. I truly believe that somewhere, way down deep inside her, is a "wounded heart" that is unable to be happy- I don't know why she's like that, and it is not for me to "fix" her.

 

About the idea that some affairs end up bringing good things... I can't comment on that. Our marriage is much better now, but maybe it would have been even if my husband hadn't had the affair, I don't know. I'll never know- the choice to find that out was taken away from me.

 

Perhaps not forgiving her is selfish on my part. I don't know. But I do know that I am a good person, I am raising three great kids, I volunteer in my community, I help others whenever I can. I can see the beauty in the smallest snowflake, the tallest mountain and the happiness of my children.I'm polite to everyone, try to keep an open mind and am very happy in my life. Not being in a place where I can "forgive" this other woman doesn't make me feel bad-I'm perfectly fine with it and I can't forsee that changing anytime soon.

 

I also feel that it is okay for other "betrayed spouses" to retain the right to forgive/not forgive those who engineered their the pain they went through, and to not feel one iota of guilt should they still be angry or if they have forgiven all parties involved. They are, after all , "the walking wounded" and have the right to feel any way that they feel and to not feel bad about their emotions.

 

(sorry this was such a long post... I do apologize for that)

 

I don't know enough about your situation and what the OW did so maybe you have good reason not to forgive. But it does come across (IMO) as a bit of a double standard and a strange expectation that you have of her to protect your life and children more than you expect that of your husband??

 

And if she really is as broken in herself as you describe then even more reason to have compassion and not think of what she did in being involved with your husband as 'engineered' to cause you pain.

 

Black and white thinking, one person is wrong and so cannot be forgiven is unhelpful I think, which is why the original post was so good and understanding and showing of true healing.

[Snowflower]

Interesting. I wonder if the OW is as forgiving of the BW if the MM/WH returns to the marriage?

 

Based on what I read here, probably not. Usually it is just perceived as the BW sabotaging true love and somehow "forcing" her husband to return to her.

 

Double standards do abound, unfortunately.

[delirious]

IMO if the marriage was meant to be saved after an affair, it will be saved and will be stronger in time. Obviously there was a flaw somewhere, ( I do not believe that affairs happen in happy marriages that is my opinion). Having an affair can make you realise what was wrong and that there was something wrong or missing and you could not see it before. After the affair is discovered it will give the marriage a chance to mend and repair that flaw, if it was meant to be, it will mend and be stronger if not, then it would not have improved anyway and people in the marriage would just trundle along and do nothing about it. So if ST saved her marriage, then it will be better. Nothing like possibly losing something to make you see how much it meant to you. BTW not trying to justify an affair, it is just that an affair happens because people are not happy and do not communicate that.

[2sure]

If an affair is an exit affair...meaning both spouses were just waiting for a turning point...the affair causes decisions to made and everyone moves on pretty quickly. That doesnt make them bad people . Exit affairs happen frequently and they are not lamented about here because generally both spouses saw the affair as a result of something they already knew.

 

For example, when I found out my first H was interested in someone else...my response was: She seems to like you more than I do. We should get a divorce.

[Spark1111]

Interesting. I wonder if the OW is as forgiving of the BW if the MM/WH returns to the marriage?

 

Based on what I read here, probably not. Usually it is just perceived as the BW sabotaging true love and somehow "forcing" her husband to return to her.

 

Double standards do abound, unfortunately.

 

The OW in my sitch absolutely hates me. I have no idea why.

 

I told him to go get her. It seemed to be the last thing he wanted. Doubt he told her that.

 

Absolutely dripped contempt and venom the one time we finally spoke.

 

He ended it.

 

He initiated NC on his own with no urging from me to do so.

 

But she hates me with a passion.

[half_ofa_heart]

 

About the idea that me forgiving my husband but not her is a double standard, I can see why you may feel that way, but my thought on the subject is that some of my actions in our marriage hurt my husband ( nothing major, just little "unkindnesses" that I didn't realize I was committing). This, along with many other issues that were going on in his life, left him very vulnerable to someone who he perceived as being kind and understanding and he made the choice to have an affair. I do agree with the idea that a marriage that has problems is often the root cause of an affair- so I own my part in the whole thing- I can forgive myself for the mistakes I made that hurt him, so how can I not forgive him? extending that forgiveness to her isn't the same thing to me, as I did nothing to her, she was no "innocent victim" here- if she was, I would certainly feel that forgiving her was the right thing to do, and I would also probably even feel sympathy for her as she had been lied to and may have had absolutely no intention on hurting anyone.

 

I agree completely but then again, I am the OW

 

We had a close call with a D-day and miraculously got out of it. But not without LOTS of convincing and the part that shocked me the most was that neither of their behavior (nor mine for that matter) changed after this VERY close call. She still berated him and he still cheated. Not trying to say that she is the cause of the A (not by a long shot) but for sure a contributing factor.

 

I commend you because you saw your part (albeit very small part) and took responsibility for it.

 

I hate what I have done and wish whole heartedly that I never, ever laid eyes on him. As much as I love him, the pain that I endure is not worth it.

 

I hope your marriage is fully recovered and that the A doesn't leave a permanent scar.

[NoIDidn't]

Interesting that OW seem to demand to be forgiven when its not a right to be forgiven. All the W has to do is choose to accept that the affair happened and make a decision regarding her marriage based on that acceptance of the past. The affair is likely in the past if we are talking about the H being forgiven but the OW feeling that she deserves the same treatment. She doesn't. She's usually a stranger to this family and as such whether forgiven or not, it won't impact her if she's NC anyway.

 

Forgiveness isn't done FOR the person that committed the wrong, its done for the person wronged. Its a way for them to look toward the future without being stuck in the past. But acceptance without forgiveness is just as good, IMO.

 

And considering that the OW is NOT a member of this family - not a parent to any of the kids, generally not another family member, and was most likely always on the outside of this family - she has no right to expect the same treatment as the FAMILY MEMBER they wish to bring back into the fold and continue building a relationship with.

 

I see no double standard. But I do see some pretty delusional thinking. Another sad thing about the purpose of this thread. The W owes the OW nothing. Its sad that a former BS felt she needed to distance herself because of others' distorted thinking about the mindset of those labelled "BS".

[Silly_Girl]

Interesting. I wonder if the OW is as forgiving of the BW if the MM/WH returns to the marriage?

 

Based on what I read here, probably not. Usually it is just perceived as the BW sabotaging true love and somehow "forcing" her husband to return to her.

 

Double standards do abound, unfortunately.

 

When it happened to me I prayed and prayed they could improve things, find something in the marriage they hadn't previously been able to.

[Snowflower]

IMO if the marriage was meant to be saved after an affair, it will be saved and will be stronger in time. Obviously there was a flaw somewhere, ( I do not believe that affairs happen in happy marriages that is my opinion). Having an affair can make you realise what was wrong and that there was something wrong or missing and you could not see it before. After the affair is discovered it will give the marriage a chance to mend and repair that flaw, if it was meant to be, it will mend and be stronger if not, then it would not have improved anyway and people in the marriage would just trundle along and do nothing about it. So if ST saved her marriage, then it will be better. Nothing like possibly losing something to make you see how much it meant to you. BTW not trying to justify an affair, it is just that an affair happens because people are not happy and do not communicate that.

 

This is well said. And it was what I took from the OP. The stuff about G*d and forgiving not so much.

 

I tend to think of a marriage that goes on to be successful after an infidelity has nearly torn it apart as similar to a near death experience. I know that my husband feels this way even more so than I do. He mentions it to me frequently.

 

For example, say you (general use of the term) nearly die from a life-threatening illness, a horrific car accident, whatever, and you realize afterward that your life is precious and that you want to make sure you enjoy it fully.

 

You (again, general you) would probably never say that nearly dying was a good thing that happened to you. After all, it would be frightening and likely very painful and traumatic. It would be something that you would likely never want to repeat. But, the outcome of all the trauma--a renewed sense of life--is an invaluable gift.

 

I think sometimes, painful things or experiences that are considered bad have hidden gifts in them. Infidelity-with a successful reconciliation is but one example.

 

I'm being kind of philosophical today.

[Snowflower]

When it happened to me I prayed and prayed they could improve things, find something in the marriage they hadn't previously been able to.

 

Are you talking about your MM and his BW reconciling? If so, were you able to accept that they were trying to find happiness with each other, even though you were in pain? If so, you show a tremendous strength.

[Silly_Girl]

Are you talking about your MM and his BW reconciling? If so, were you able to accept that they were trying to find happiness with each other, even though you were in pain? If so, you show a tremendous strength.

 

It's not how it worked out, and wasn't what I wanted for me at the time obviously, but I wanted them both to be happy and wanted our relationship, the pain on separating, not to have been in vain. If it had caused them to 'fix' things then my grief (very much how it felt) would have been worth it. And I'd definitely never have wished 30-40 yrs of sub-standard marriage on either of them. Life's way too short.

[silktricks]

This is well said. And it was what I took from the OP. The stuff about G*d and forgiving not so much.

 

I wrote the thread, and am not sure where the stuff about God and forgiving came from... it wasn't in my post. The only mention I made of God was that I was tired of him being used as a bludgeon...

 

And although I'm certain that forgiveness is a wonderful thing, again, I never used the word. TurnStone said that she felt this was meant to pressure BS to forgive the OW. I'm really sorry as that was not my intent. In all honesty, I am in agreement with her (I think Turnstone is a woman???) statement that you can't get to forgiveness without wading through the despair, anger and rage (not the exact words, but I think that's the gist of what was said...). Healing is a process, and the process may or may not include forgiveness. I don't know. But, I don't think there is only one way to anywhere.

 

I'm not really certain what my intent was - it just kinda flowed out at the moment - really without thought. But whatever, my point wasn't about forgiving or not forgiving - or anything to do with God or religion. It was about the people who experience affairs in their lives. The men and women who are embroiled in all aspects of an affair. They aren't bad people - none of them. Not the WS, not the OW/OM and not the BS. They don't deserve to be hated or reviled or demeaned. They deserve happiness at the end of the day. Every one of them/every one of us . Not everyone will get happiness in the short run, because one, two or even all three will go through a tremendous amount of pain. But hopefully when all is said and done everyone will find peace. Everyone will grow into a better person, because as you say below:

 

 

I think sometimes, painful things or experiences that are considered bad have hidden gifts in them. Infidelity-with a successful reconciliation is but one example.

 

I'm being kind of philosophical today.

 

And, infidelity even without a successful reconciliation, can be something bad that has a hidden gift.

[Snowflower]

I wrote the thread, and am not sure where the stuff about God and forgiving came from... it wasn't in my post. The only mention I made of God was that I was tired of him being used as a bludgeon...

 

And although I'm certain that forgiveness is a wonderful thing, again, I never used the word.

 

Oh, I know you didn't mention forgiveness in your OP. And I was kind of confused as to why the thread had taken such a turn toward the BS forgiving the AP.

 

Perhaps because some are picking up on the idea-based on your OP-that you have forgiven the OW in your situation? I don't know if that's true or not and it's no one's business but your own.

 

I'm sorry I didn't make that clear in my post.

 

And, infidelity even without a successful reconciliation, can be something bad that has a hidden gift.

 

Most definitely.

[TinaniT]

Beautiful post in sentiment, and the way it is worded. Are you a writer? I am a "reader" I suppose and am always a little jealous of those of you who can write so well

 

That is how I felt as a BS, too (long before I was OW). And still how I feel now.

[silktricks]

Beautiful post in sentiment, and the way it is worded. Are you a writer? I am a "reader" I suppose and am always a little jealous of those of you who can write so well

 

That is how I felt as a BS, too (long before I was OW). And still how I feel now.

 

I'm not a writer, but thanks for the compliment.

[criket]

Thank you for your post. It gives me hope that some good will come from my affair.

[bentnotbroken]

Thank you for your post. It gives me hope that some good will come from my affair.

 

 

Like what?

[Mimolicious]

The OW in my sitch absolutely hates me. I have no idea why.

 

I told him to go get her. It seemed to be the last thing he wanted. Doubt he told her that.

 

Absolutely dripped contempt and venom the one time we finally spoke.

 

He ended it.

 

He initiated NC on his own with no urging from me to do so.

 

But she hates me with a passion.

 

 

Uh duh! Cause she wasn't the selected flavor. Isn't that the way that a BS is when their S ditches them for OW/OM? They hate the AP??!!! NO?! That's what is usually plastered around these boards. (Most cases).

 

In my previous drama- the OW I wish her nothing, she is already getting what she deserves. The same goes for my xH. Regardless of my religious and spiritual beliefs, forgiving or not, it no longer blocks me from moving on to my next level. I despise the both of them, not for being "in love and together" but for committing the acts they did. Everyone ended in handcuffs. They created their own habitat, let them live it.

 

Besides, for God to forgive me, I have to admit my sins and ask for forgiveness... (Isn't that the way it goes?)

 

Party has just started for me.

[Silly_Girl]

Mimo, I love, love, love your avatar!!!