This particular BS' point of view

[Mimolicious]

TJ for the sake of the cause-

 

"JEM! Truly outrageous! truly truly outrageous!" SG- FB has a campaign to support the fight against child violence and supporters showed love making their profile pic their favorite cartoon. Mine was JEM!

[wheelwright]

While it's all well and good to say that one can forgive someone who has hurt you greatly, sometimes that isn't a completely fair expectation to have of someone.

 

I am sorry, but I can not forgive the woman my husband had the affair with... not so much because of what she did to me- I am an adult and have to take what comes along and deal with it, but she hurt my three children terribly, and she didn't care. She looked my three crying children right in the eyes and saw the pain in the only three completely innocent people in the whole situation and it didn't faze her one bit. How am I to forgive that?

 

I know it may sound like a "double standard", but I have forgiven my husband, as I figure I had somewhat of an "equal share" in the whole thing... we weren't being very good to one another, and he had been hurt by my actions. This does not excuse his behavior, but it does explain it and i can live with that. He truly wanted me to forgive him for the choices he made, and I have . It is a gift I gave not only to him, but to myself and my children as well.

 

In the case of the woman he had the affair with,I had done nothing at all to her, I had never even met her , my children did nothing to her, and yet she hurt them terribly. This I cannot forgive.

 

She did ask me once for forgiveness, but it was a thinly veiled attempt to justify her actions " you should forgive me as it was all your fault anyway"- she did not ask this because she felt bad, she asked me to forgive her so that I wouldn't report her actions. She was afraid of what I could do to her, and she still is.

 

In my humble opinion, there are some acts that can't be forgiven, nor should they be. I have truly thought about it, and it's not bitterness that keeps me from forgiving her, but rather the idea that she did something very wrong ( in my book, at least, and I know some will disagree) and does not deserve my forgiveness, and, quite frankly, perhaps it is not for me to forgive her. She sees nothing wrong with what she did, so how can one forgive the actions of someone who doesn't truly want forgiveness?

 

This is not to say that I wish her harm nor unhappiness.If I saw her wounded on the side of the road I would help her, but I do not do that for her, but for myself. I truly believe that somewhere, way down deep inside her, is a "wounded heart" that is unable to be happy- I don't know why she's like that, and it is not for me to "fix" her.

 

About the idea that some affairs end up bringing good things... I can't comment on that. Our marriage is much better now, but maybe it would have been even if my husband hadn't had the affair, I don't know. I'll never know- the choice to find that out was taken away from me.

 

Perhaps not forgiving her is selfish on my part. I don't know. But I do know that I am a good person, I am raising three great kids, I volunteer in my community, I help others whenever I can. I can see the beauty in the smallest snowflake, the tallest mountain and the happiness of my children.I'm polite to everyone, try to keep an open mind and am very happy in my life. Not being in a place where I can "forgive" this other woman doesn't make me feel bad-I'm perfectly fine with it and I can't forsee that changing anytime soon.

 

I also feel that it is okay for other "betrayed spouses" to retain the right to forgive/not forgive those who engineered their the pain they went through, and to not feel one iota of guilt should they still be angry or if they have forgiven all parties involved. They are, after all , "the walking wounded" and have the right to feel any way that they feel and to not feel bad about their emotions.

 

(sorry this was such a long post... I do apologize for that)

 

So you are the vision of human and community perfection? Cos that's how you come across.

 

And the OW is not? Perhaps she also brings positive things into the world?

 

As for your kids, it's complex. If you think you may have some responsibility for any deficit in the M, then you made them suffer, no?

 

(But they learnt to grow and understand things, so I am not well equipped with the full remit of this argument).

 

I always think we should consider what we do, what we can help. Your blaming of the OW makes me uneasy.

 

Blaming OW and not yourself for the A strikes me as a blaming mentality which will not easily get you out of the original problem.

 

But just my opinion.

[wheelwright]

I just finished reading a thread on this board and was dismayed at some of the opinions. So, with that in mind I decided to start my own thread.

 

I do not believe that every affair is bad.

 

I believe that it is quite possible for an MM (or MW) to leave a marriage and end up very happily with their former affair partner.

 

I do not think "once a cheater always a cheater", nor do I think that because a relationship began as an affair that it means their later marriage is "doomed" to failure.

 

I do think that good CAN come out of an affair, whether the affair "succeeds" or the marriage "succeeds" - and I do not believe that simply because a marriage continues to exist that constitutes success.

 

I do not believe that because a marriage was made "before God" that it is automatically the right thing for both people in the marriage. And if it is not right for both people, then it is not right.

 

I think many people who are in affairs are wonderful, kind, loving, generous, thoughtful (and thought provoking) people.

 

I think I'm tired of seeing God used to bludgeon people into doing (or thinking) one way. If you can't see that God loves all people, then you may need to expand your views a bit.

 

I think that every one of us gets challenged by life every day. We can rise to the challenge and use it to change us for the better, or not. We can grow in kindness or become sullen and sour. We can act as if the world needs to change to fit us or realize that the world is just a bunch of people as equally challenged as we are. The world is what we make it, for ourselves as well as others. This is just an anonymous board, but if we choose to be cruel and heartless anonymously, it doesn't speak well of how we act when others see us.

 

Boy, I needed to hear all this from someone sensible.

 

I like to think I can put things into words, but you are 'surpassing'.

 

Write a book. Now.

 

And thanks.

 

WW

[bentnotbroken]

So you are the vision of human and community perfection? Cos that's how you come across.

 

And the OW is not? Perhaps she also brings positive things into the world?

 

As for your kids, it's complex. If you think you may have some responsibility for any deficit in the M, then you made them suffer, no?

 

(But they learnt to grow and understand things, so I am not well equipped with the full remit of this argument).

 

I always think we should consider what we do, what we can help. Your blaming of the OW makes me uneasy.

 

Blaming OW and not yourself for the A strikes me as a blaming mentality which will not easily get you out of the original problem.

 

But just my opinion.

 

 

Since she didn't have the affair, why should she be blamed for it? She blamed the two people involved...that's it. Not you or anyone on this board. But the ow in her situation who tried to justify forgiveness by blaming her. Weird twist?

[wheelwright]

Since she didn't have the affair, why should she be blamed for it? She blamed the two people involved...that's it. Not you or anyone on this board. But the ow in her situation who tried to justify forgiveness by blaming her. Weird twist?

 

I spoke it like I heard it.

 

I think all of us who have read these boards for any length of time know it's complex.

 

My point is, there is precious little blame in the first place.

 

It is people working stuff out.

 

I don't want to blame the OM OW MW MW etc. But I would like the BS to blame the WS & OP less.

[PhoenixRise]

So you are the vision of human and community perfection? Cos that's how you come across.

 

And the OW is not? Perhaps she also brings positive things into the world?

 

As for your kids, it's complex. If you think you may have some responsibility for any deficit in the M, then you made them suffer, no?

 

(But they learnt to grow and understand things, so I am not well equipped with the full remit of this argument).

 

I always think we should consider what we do, what we can help. Your blaming of the OW makes me uneasy.

 

Blaming OW and not yourself for the A strikes me as a blaming mentality which will not easily get you out of the original problem.

 

But just my opinion.

 

 

You know what.....Frozensprouts has posted many many times that she holds herself as well as her husband responsible for getting lazy in the marriage and for taking each other for granted in the marriage. She owns what she sees as her responsibility. She also blames her husband for choosing to get involved with OW.

 

Nothing she did or didn't do makes HER responsible for her H's decision to have an affair. Nothing she did or didn't do makes her responsible for the Ow's decision to sleep with her husband.

 

OTOH the OW in her situation is a woman who is now getting involved with her 3rd MM and uses these liaisons with MM to get ahead in her career. From what has been posted, for this particular OW (not speaking of OW in general, just this one) whatever positive she brings into the world just might be obscured by her casual way of visiting devastation on others.

 

AND to say that Frozensprouts harmed her special needs children because her M was not 100% rainbows and light is just ridiculous. ALL marriages have issues from time to time and FS took her share of the responsibility for state of the marriage. BUT The responsibility for the affair should go to the ones who chose to engage in the affair.

[carrie999]

While it's all well and good to say that one can forgive someone who has hurt you greatly, sometimes that isn't a completely fair expectation to have of someone.

 

I am sorry, but I can not forgive the woman my husband had the affair with... not so much because of what she did to me- I am an adult and have to take what comes along and deal with it, but she hurt my three children terribly, and she didn't care. She looked my three crying children right in the eyes and saw the pain in the only three completely innocent people in the whole situation and it didn't faze her one bit. How am I to forgive that?

I know it may sound like a "double standard", but I have forgiven my husband, as I figure I had somewhat of an "equal share" in the whole thing... we weren't being very good to one another, and he had been hurt by my actions. This does not excuse his behavior, but it does explain it and i can live with that. He truly wanted me to forgive him for the choices he made, and I have . It is a gift I gave not only to him, but to myself and my children as well.

 

In the case of the woman he had the affair with,I had done nothing at all to her, I had never even met her , my children did nothing to her, and yet she hurt them terribly. This I cannot forgive.

 

She did ask me once for forgiveness, but it was a thinly veiled attempt to justify her actions " you should forgive me as it was all your fault anyway"- she did not ask this because she felt bad, she asked me to forgive her so that I wouldn't report her actions. She was afraid of what I could do to her, and she still is.

 

In my humble opinion, there are some acts that can't be forgiven, nor should they be. I have truly thought about it, and it's not bitterness that keeps me from forgiving her, but rather the idea that she did something very wrong ( in my book, at least, and I know some will disagree) and does not deserve my forgiveness, and, quite frankly, perhaps it is not for me to forgive her. She sees nothing wrong with what she did, so how can one forgive the actions of someone who doesn't truly want forgiveness?

 

This is not to say that I wish her harm nor unhappiness.If I saw her wounded on the side of the road I would help her, but I do not do that for her, but for myself. I truly believe that somewhere, way down deep inside her, is a "wounded heart" that is unable to be happy- I don't know why she's like that, and it is not for me to "fix" her.

 

About the idea that some affairs end up bringing good things... I can't comment on that. Our marriage is much better now, but maybe it would have been even if my husband hadn't had the affair, I don't know. I'll never know- the choice to find that out was taken away from me.

 

Perhaps not forgiving her is selfish on my part. I don't know. But I do know that I am a good person, I am raising three great kids, I volunteer in my community, I help others whenever I can. I can see the beauty in the smallest snowflake, the tallest mountain and the happiness of my children.I'm polite to everyone, try to keep an open mind and am very happy in my life. Not being in a place where I can "forgive" this other woman doesn't make me feel bad-I'm perfectly fine with it and I can't forsee that changing anytime soon.

 

I also feel that it is okay for other "betrayed spouses" to retain the right to forgive/not forgive those who engineered their the pain they went through, and to not feel one iota of guilt should they still be angry or if they have forgiven all parties involved. They are, after all , "the walking wounded" and have the right to feel any way that they feel and to not feel bad about their emotions.

 

(sorry this was such a long post... I do apologize for that)

 

I completely agree with you. You don't owe her forgiveness or anything else. But based on everything you've said (bolded points in particular), you need to forgive her, in your heart, if only for your own healing and happiness. What you don't have to do is let her know that you have forgiven her. Forgiveness can be a "selfish" thing, just as a sense of humanity (not leaving her on the side of the road) can. It's not necessarily the way I'd like to put it, but it's true.

 

I grew up with a father who was emotionally and physically abusive to my family. I spent years dealing with the repercussions, and the final step in getting past it was forgiving him. It's not important that he knows that, but it's important that I forgave him in my heart. I eventually told him and formed a relationship with him that is distant and fragmented, at best. That was my choice...my mother and siblings forgave him, but only two of us let him know we forgave him.

 

It may take you years to fully forgive them for this, and how you go about it is up to you. You're not wrong, and you have every right to be angry. The OP has chosen to forgive everyone involved and found clarity that way. That was the right path for her. Your path is your own.

 

My (equally long) point is there is no correct way to handle situations like these. When there are children involved, it's more complicated, because both parents' happiness and handling of the situation affects them. It's important to find whatever path you need to heal and move on, in whatever capacity.

[carrie999]

I wrote the thread, and am not sure where the stuff about God and forgiving came from... it wasn't in my post. The only mention I made of God was that I was tired of him being used as a bludgeon...

 

And although I'm certain that forgiveness is a wonderful thing, again, I never used the word. TurnStone said that she felt this was meant to pressure BS to forgive the OW. I'm really sorry as that was not my intent. In all honesty, I am in agreement with her (I think Turnstone is a woman???) statement that you can't get to forgiveness without wading through the despair, anger and rage (not the exact words, but I think that's the gist of what was said...). Healing is a process, and the process may or may not include forgiveness. I don't know. But, I don't think there is only one way to anywhere.

 

I'm not really certain what my intent was - it just kinda flowed out at the moment - really without thought. But whatever, my point wasn't about forgiving or not forgiving - or anything to do with God or religion. It was about the people who experience affairs in their lives. The men and women who are embroiled in all aspects of an affair. They aren't bad people - none of them. Not the WS, not the OW/OM and not the BS. They don't deserve to be hated or reviled or demeaned. They deserve happiness at the end of the day. Every one of them/every one of us . Not everyone will get happiness in the short run, because one, two or even all three will go through a tremendous amount of pain. But hopefully when all is said and done everyone will find peace. Everyone will grow into a better person, because as you say below:

 

 

 

And, infidelity even without a successful reconciliation, can be something bad that has a hidden gift.

 

This is exactly right. People make mistakes, relationships work out or do not, and all you can ever ask from life is to have the perspective and strength to constantly appreciate what is good, and to work through what is not. Life IS short, and leaves no room for revision, only growth.

[carrie999]

Thank you

 

Your post very eloquently describes the difference between most of the "other men/women" that I have seen on here and the woman my husband had the affair with. You did not intend to hurt anyone, and you are going through pain of your own. You actually care that someone got hurt... if my husbands affair partner had been like you, I would gladly have forgiven her and also been a bit angry at my husband for hurting her as well as me. When I read posts like your I can see the pain that you have been put through and I can only hope that you are able to work past the pain and find happiness in your life... I get absolutely no pleasure in knowing you were hurt, in fact, I feel really bad about it.

 

As for the permanent scar, well, I figure there will be permanent scars, but maybe that's not a bad thing. Scars are a record of tough times we have been through, and good reminders if how bad things can get if we aren't careful... good reminders to not let things go that should be addressed right away. And maybe it will also be good for our kids to see that husbands and wives can go through tough times but still come out on the other side together and better than before. They've seen that marriage ( or any relationship) takes effort and that the effort is well worth it, and that you don't "throw in the towel" when times get tough.

 

I guess it's like the old saying "adversity builds character! "

 

You have an incredibly healthy perspective, and I admire you for that. The scars should remain (fading with time) as a reminder, but I'm glad that you have reconciled and are working on moving past this chapter in your life together.

[thissecretgirl]

Silk,

 

I loved your post. You have a wonderful perspective, thanks for sharing it.

[blueroses10]

I just finished reading a thread on this board and was dismayed at some of the opinions. So, with that in mind I decided to start my own thread.

 

I do not believe that every affair is bad.

 

I believe that it is quite possible for an MM (or MW) to leave a marriage and end up very happily with their former affair partner.

 

I do not think "once a cheater always a cheater", nor do I think that because a relationship began as an affair that it means their later marriage is "doomed" to failure.

 

I do think that good CAN come out of an affair, whether the affair "succeeds" or the marriage "succeeds" - and I do not believe that simply because a marriage continues to exist that constitutes success.

 

I do not believe that because a marriage was made "before God" that it is automatically the right thing for both people in the marriage. And if it is not right for both people, then it is not right.

 

I think many people who are in affairs are wonderful, kind, loving, generous, thoughtful (and thought provoking) people.

 

I think I'm tired of seeing God used to bludgeon people into doing (or thinking) one way. If you can't see that God loves all people, then you may need to expand your views a bit.

 

I think that every one of us gets challenged by life every day. We can rise to the challenge and use it to change us for the better, or not. We can grow in kindness or become sullen and sour. We can act as if the world needs to change to fit us or realize that the world is just a bunch of people as equally challenged as we are. The world is what we make it, for ourselves as well as others. This is just an anonymous board, but if we choose to be cruel and heartless anonymously, it doesn't speak well of how we act when others see us.

 

Great post.

[bentnotbroken]

I spoke it like I heard it.

 

I think all of us who have read these boards for any length of time know it's complex.

 

My point is, there is precious little blame in the first place.

 

It is people working stuff out.

 

I don't want to blame the OM OW MW MW etc. But I would like the BS to blame the WS & OP less.

 

 

Maybe if they did less screwing around with other people's lives, they would be blamed less by those affected. JMO.

[whichwayisup]

I don't want to blame the OM OW MW MW etc. But I would like the BS to blame the WS & OP less.

 

Wow, there's so much wrong with this statement. I guess it all depends on someone's frame of mind, where they're at, to say something like this. Both WS and OP deserve the blame, how can you say they deserve less blame considering they are the affair partners???

[2themoon&back]

Like what?

 

I have thought about how to answer this for a couple of days and this is what I have come up with...

 

True life experience and lessons!

 

An experience that may make someone more thoughtful than they were before the affair and who in the future could be less likely to act in such a selfish manner.

 

An experience to not be so self indulgent when making decisions that involves innocent parties.

 

To experience true forgiveness from someone who does not owe you forgiveness because of your actions and because they understand forgiveness will give it to you anyway. This could lead a violator to become a more forgiving individual to others as well. .

 

An opportunity to feel true remorse at the same time learns some humility and humbleness.

 

I think these are just some of the good things that may come from the results of an affair IMO

[bentnotbroken]

I have thought about how to answer this for a couple of days and this is what I have come up with...

 

True life experience and lessons!

 

An experience that may make someone more thoughtful than they were before the affair and who in the future could be less likely to act in such a selfish manner.

 

An experience to not be so self indulgent when making decisions that involves innocent parties.

 

To experience true forgiveness from someone who does not owe you forgiveness because of your actions and because they understand forgiveness will give it to you anyway. This could lead a violator to become a more forgiving individual to others as well. .

 

An opportunity to feel true remorse at the same time learns some humility and humbleness.

 

I think these are just some of the good things that may come from the results of an affair IMO

 

 

I wondered what good things you might see as an AP. I often wondered in the beginning if I would ever see some good things come from the aftermath of the affair....I did.

[woinlove]

 

Blaming OW and not yourself for the A strikes me as a blaming mentality which will not easily get you out of the original problem.

 

But just my opinion.

 

This doesn't make any sense. How can she be to blame for her H and the OW's decision to have an affair?

 

It seems common on LS to rationalize affairs by making it sound like the MM/MW/OW/OM do not have any freedom to make their own decisions.

 

In any case, FP's post wasn't about blame per se. FP clearly stated how the OW knowingly hurt her and her family and she thinks that is wrong and doesn't want to forgive her. As long as not forgiving her doesn't cause FP more pain, I see no problem with that.

[wheelwright]

Wow, there's so much wrong with this statement. I guess it all depends on someone's frame of mind, where they're at, to say something like this. Both WS and OP deserve the blame, how can you say they deserve less blame considering they are the affair partners???

 

Because As are products of Ms not WSs. On the whole.

[wheelwright]

Maybe you misunderstood my point

 

my point in saying that I am a decent person was not to compare myself to the woman my husband had his affair with, but rather to make the point that I feel that I am not a bad person because I can not for give this other woman.

And, to be quite frank, your response to my post doesn't seem to make much sense... on one hand you comment on the fact that since I accept some of the responsibility for my husband's affair that I am partly to blame for the fact that my children were hurt by my husbands affair, but then other the other hand you chastise me for not blaming this woman but not myself. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say, and if I did, I am sorry.

 

About people who end up in relationships with married people- I can't help but think that each of them is different... some end up in affairs because they were lied to and misled, some get "swpt away" and don't truly consider the consequences, some do consider them but don't find them important, and some actively seek out affairs with married people and are perfectly fine if it ends up hurting a whole lot of other people.

 

While it is not for me to "forgive" every person who was ever involved in an affair, I can certainly empathize with the pain many of them go through- I see it on here. Before I started reading posts on here a few years ago, I admit that I used to view everyone who's ever been an "affair partner" as a home wrecker and a callous and cold individual... most are not. Most seem to be decent people who are making some poor choices. But when I read abut their sadness and hurt, how can I not empathize? I see another human being in pain... and while I may not agree with their actions at all, this does not mean that they aren't hurting too.

 

But, like I said in my posts about the woman my husband had his affair with...a very small percentage of people who have affairs are narcissists or ( and I know everyone is going to get really angry when I say this, but please remember that I am only talking about a very, very small percentage of people) perhaps even sociopaths. They go through life hurting others for personal gain, using people, etc., which, in any other context, would meet the criteria for these behavioral conditions.

 

 

Oh.

 

Intelligence.

 

Compassion.

 

Now I feel small.

 

What's wrong with forgiveness?

[bentnotbroken]

Because As are products of Ms not WSs. On the whole.

 

 

Might be the product of a marriage(which I say hogwash)but definately the action of a WS.

[wheelwright]

AND to say that Frozensprouts harmed her special needs children because her M was not 100% rainbows and light is just ridiculous. ALL marriages have issues from time to time and FS took her share of the responsibility for state of the marriage. BUT The responsibility for the affair should go to the ones who chose to engage in the affair.

 

I find it amazing you have sussed out moral philosophy at so young an age.

 

Because you have decided that the moral basis of a situation lies in the current cultural wave.

 

The responsibility for any questionable human endeavour goes so deep we cannot answer.

 

Including M.

 

What you are saying by above, is you know what love is, what the keenest drive for mankind is.

 

Well, You are beyond me. But that is clear. I am a WS.

[turnstone]

Because As are products of Ms not WSs. On the whole.

 

Rubbish. They are always, at least, a product of the WS's selfishness. And an affair won't be the only symptom of a WS's selfishness. They will often behave in ways that benefit them but have little or no consideration for others, even to the extent of damaging others in some way. Its just that these other behaviours are unlikely to create the same level of trauma as an affair, hence are less likely to be discussed at the same lengths.

 

Silktricks, thanks for your last post. I better understand your position now.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't know what you guys did to set wheelwright off, but you'd better stop it!

 

Why so sensitive when no one is doing what you insist (blaming someone unfairly)?

 

BTW, an A is not the product of a marriage, as infidelity is not limited to marriages. As the choice of the WS, especially when the WS went out of their way to conceal the A from the M, it is a product of the WS regardless of the state of the marriage.

[PhoenixRise]

I find it amazing you have sussed out moral philosophy at so young an age.

 

Because you have decided that the moral basis of a situation lies in the current cultural wave.

 

The responsibility for any questionable human endeavour goes so deep we cannot answer.

 

Including M.

 

What you are saying by above, is you know what love is, what the keenest drive for mankind is.

 

Well, You are beyond me. But that is clear. I am a WS.

 

 

You know what WW...

 

It is not nearly as deep as you would like to think. I said nothing about knowing what love is. I said nothing about the keenest drive for mankind.

It has nothing to do with any current cultural wave.

 

What I said is that every person is responsible for their OWN actions. That's it. Regardless of the why's or the justifications you are responsible for what you do. It just so happens that the person whose post you initially quoted HAS taken responsibility for her actions.

 

It has nothing AT ALL to do with you being a WS. It has to do with you somehow twisting reality to blame a person for harming their children because their marriage was not 100% perfect and because her spouse chose to cheat. Nobody's marriage is perfect love and light all the time. Each person in the marriage is responsible for how they chose to deal with the inevitable issues that arise.

 

AND in the aftermath of an affair, or any kind of betrayal for that matter, nobody is OWED forgiveness. The person who is betrayed makes a choice that works for their life. They can choose to forgive one but not the other, neither, or both. Who are you to decide her choice is wrong?

 

AND I don't know, but maybe your advanced age is causing you not to have as firm a grasp on moral philosophy or basic reading comprehension as you think.

[donnamaybe]

Might be the product of a marriage(which I say hogwash)but definately the action of a WS.

So if it's a LTR situation, there's no such thing as cheating?

 

It is most DEFINITELY the action of the WS (cheater). They could CHOOSE to end the relationship. But no. They want their cake and eat it too.

[wheelwright]

I don't know what you guys did to set wheelwright off, but you'd better stop it!

 

Why so sensitive when no one is doing what you insist (blaming someone unfairly)?

 

BTW, an A is not the product of a marriage, as infidelity is not limited to marriages. As the choice of the WS, especially when the WS went out of their way to conceal the A from the M, it is a product of the WS regardless of the state of the marriage.

 

 

My point is basically where we differ - I feel most WSs/OPs are blamed unfairly. Or at least overly harshly.

 

Gaslighting is very bad - I am with the moral majority on that (hence I angst over Santa - that time of year again).

 

Why I feel it is important to get to the bottom of As without just saying 'they are wrong cos you are M/in a R', is because I can still imagine another world (cultural) where As are accepted as valuable despite the hurt.

 

Well, in many cultures as we know, different rules apply re monogamy. Sometimes these cultural issues are to do with economics. I think that extends into a western world, where people may feel a need to connect with others intimately but our economic set up forbids it (practical). So we do it illicitly. The only easy way we can.

 

Only trouble is is that we have a huge moral/cultural backlash in place ready to back up the economic/cultural drive. As in other societies globally.

 

Change is painful, but it can be good. For kids who witnessed a dead M before an A woke the M couple up. For the couple. For an OP who gets burned by society's overarching values of M over intense but possible fleeting love.

 

It can be bad too. I heard of a teenager today who committed suicide when her parent's split.

 

I still reel from hearing that about my community.

 

I still feel terrible about the effect of my A on xMOM's kids and on my H.

 

But I do not know enough to say, in this world of so many possible outcomes, whether it was bad, whether I was bad.

 

I do take responsibility, but I find the blame on this thread hard to hear.

 

I have heard MPs say their M is dead, they do not love their SO, their partner does not even greet them after 4 days away. They never have sex. They are only together for the kids. That M and commitment is for losers. That love is a ridiculous construct. That kids tie you down. They have nothing in common with their MP. That the M was right time right place.

 

That they think they made a mistake when they M.

 

But they have kids, a house and a job and are getting on.

 

I just don't think an OP is that bad a thing in these circumstances.

 

I would rather feel pain than nothing.

 

And love more than that still.

 

I am yet to hear an argument, other than from the bible, which can convince me infidelity is bad under the kind of circumstances I list here. Except when the gaslighting is cruel.

 

I just see it as an equation: you are telling me my R with you is dead but we carry on for the family = I am going to have an A.

 

Because in our culture, it's Hobson's choice.

 

ps - I think I need to add that under economic/cultural I include the raising of kids.

Edited December 10, 2010 by wheelwright