Would you be okay with your girlfriend getting a drink with an ex?

[NYCGirly]

I'm shocked no one has really harped on the fact that Vertex invaded his gf's privacy. Imagine someone watching you when you think you're completely alone in your own home. Not a great feeling right? Vertex, it makes you just as bad as your gf so I guess you both are great for each other since you've both displayed untrustworthy and dishonest behavior. I felt it funny you thought you were in a position to bestow forgiveness when you were in the wrong as well.

 

Anyway, Vertex I think the fact that you were one, willing to invade her privacy and two, overlook her being dishonest with you shows that you're insecure. You obviously don't think you deserve (or can get) better. We all deserve someone who we can trust and who wont compel us to snoop into his/her personal correspondences. You "forgiving" her only lets her know that she can get away with this behavior with a few tears and as others have said, she now knows to be a bit better with hiding her indiscretions.

[Pfiend101]

I'm shocked no one has really harped on the fact that Vertex invaded his gf's privacy. Imagine someone watching you when you think you're completely alone in your own home. Not a great feeling right? Vertex, it makes you just as bad as your gf so I guess you both are great for each other since you've both displayed untrustworthy and dishonest behavior. I felt it funny you thought you were in a position to bestow forgiveness when you were in the wrong as well.

 

Anyway, Vertex I think the fact that you were one, willing to invade her privacy and two, overlook her being dishonest with you shows that you're insecure. You obviously don't think you deserve (or can get) better. We all deserve someone who we can trust and who wont compel us to snoop into his/her personal correspondences. You "forgiving" her only lets her know that she can get away with this behavior with a few tears and as others have said, she now knows to be a bit better with hiding her indiscretions.

 

Oh please. He logged in and HE HAD REASON TO. She was planning on having a drink with an ex. She isn't the victim here. He is. I'm not going to bash her but he is not in the wrong here. Good for him for catching her in the act. BAD on her for trying to lie and deceive.

[NYCGirly]

Oh please. He logged in and HE HAD REASON TO. She was planning on having a drink with an ex. She isn't the victim here. He is. I'm not going to bash her but he is not in the wrong here. Good for him for catching her in the act. BAD on her for trying to lie and deceive.

 

Snooping is still snooping irrespective of whether you feel it was justified. As I stated earlier, her behavior was wrong. But so was his. The fact that you don't see that is too bad.

[VertexSquared]

I have never had such an intense dissonance raging on inside my head before.

 

My brain is telling her exactly what you all have been telling me. Everything adds up and she was willing to be extremely dishonest with me, sending me incomplete portions of the conversation. I knew exactly what she omitted and it hurts me that she would try to regain my trust in that situation by piling lies upon lies.

 

We had a long talk about all this. I told her pretty much the same things you all have mentioned. I told her that I don't want this to mean that when the situation gets tough she's just going to figure out how to cover her tracks better. To me, it's impossible to cover tracks. Something always slips through one way or another. I told her I was willing to forgive her because she's a smart girl otherwise, and I refuse to believe that she'd be so dumb as to pull this stunt again.

 

I told her that she had to send a message to the guy saying that it was not appropriate to meet, and then I had her block him from Facebook.

 

NYCGirly: Yeah, what I did was wrong. But it's one of those situations where I *know* I am being lied to, and the only way I can know for sure is to take matters into my own hands. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but I wouldn't snoop if I had any other way of knowing for sure. Our conversation wasn't just about her (although it primarily was) -- it was about BOTH of us and how we could possibly learn to trust each other going forward. We discussed what it meant to be honest/loving people in a relationship and how we needed to be fair to each other/forthcoming/blahblah.

 

I am just hoping we aren't making a dumb mistake.

[Mad Max]

I'm shocked no one has really harped on the fact that Vertex invaded his gf's privacy.

 

 

The snooping was justified once he realized his GF was chatting with the ex. Anyone that defends the GF is just as big of scum IMO.

[NYCGirly]

The snooping was justified once he realized his GF was chatting with the ex. Anyone that defends the GF is just as big of scum IMO.

 

It's unfortunate people don't know how to read here. I have stated in two (now three) posts that what his gf did was WRONG. No where did I defend her actions. Good Lord.

 

Vertex, since you do know how to read, at least you recognize that what you did was wrong. Maybe after this whole incident, you'll both grow to be more honest and open with one another.

[Mad Max]

These were the first two sentences in your last two posts:

 

 

I'm shocked no one has really harped on the fact that Vertex invaded his gf's privacy.

 

 

Snooping is still snooping irrespective of whether you feel it was justified.

 

 

You only admitted she was wrong after you blasted the OP for snooping. The fact that you blasted the OP before anything else shows that you're siding with the GF.

[Distant78]

Oh please. He logged in and HE HAD REASON TO. She was planning on having a drink with an ex. She isn't the victim here. He is. I'm not going to bash her but he is not in the wrong here. Good for him for catching her in the act. BAD on her for trying to lie and deceive.

 

Exactly. And wasn't she in his house? And wasn't her facebook acoount on HIS computer? Anything that is in my house, I don't care if you brought a purse in my house, I will look at if I want and if you don't like it, get out. In my opinion, in cases of infidelity, privacy flies out the window when you decide to **** around on me with another dude (especially when you're planning to see an ex), then have the nerve to keep lying to me when I have evidence. In OP's case, his girlfriend was doing premeditated infidelity. In other words, she thought that by lying and making her boyfriend think he was just being insecure, she could go to the Tit Bar to see her ex, "catch up" on each other's lives and have a few Vodka shots, then meet in a Motel 6 or at her home to screw each other.

 

OP, your girl knew exactly what she was doing, and KNEW it was wrong, but did not give your relationship a thought when it came to messing around with her ex. Seriously you are going to be in even more pain if you don't drop her right now. There is no way in under 24 hours will she go from being a hoe to being a faithful, committed marriage-material girlfriend. And there is DEFINITELY no way in under 24 hours where you will be able to just sweep this under the rug. I understand you love her, but she is not on the same page with you, regarding FIDELITY. She HAS to face her consequences or she will never learn.

[NYCGirly]

These were the first two sentences in your last two posts:

 

You only admitted she was wrong after you blasted the OP for snooping. The fact that you blasted the OP before anything else shows that you're siding with the GF.

 

.....:confused: Ok so the order in which I decided to express my thoughts conveys that I sided with the gf even though I have stated in three posts (now four) that she was in the wrong?

 

If anyone can explain this logic to me, I'm all ears.

[VertexSquared]

Vertex, since you do know how to read, at least you recognize that what you did was wrong. Maybe after this whole incident, you'll both grow to be more honest and open with one another.

 

That is what we're aiming for. She told me she lied because she didn't want me freaking out, and was embarrassed to admit that she had wondered how he was doing. But she claims to have absolutely no feelings for him, etc. I told her I had a really hard time accepting that she'd suddenly be so willing to be open and honest with me after she had just gone through a vehement chain of lies before I had to call her out on everything.

 

While I know what I did was dishonest, I feel at least I dealt with this almost immediately. I decided it was the right thing to tell her I had looked -- but I wanted to see if she'd admit it first or lie to me. Unfortunately, the latter.

 

I told her this was not going to happen again or it was over, but I admit I wanted everything to work out. She really is a sweet, intelligent girl and she seems to fully understand that what she did was wrong, unfair, and stupid.

 

But in the back of my mind it isn't so easy for me to just overlook this. I told her it was going to take time, and that she absolutely had to block the guy -- not negotiable.

 

I'm not sure if we can possibly proceed healthily at this point, but it's silly for me to assume that this is impossible to deal with. I am trying to figure out *why* she felt the need to lie to me so we can address the core issue, here. I think we both want this to work, but at the same time I don't want to let her think she can just walk over me with this crap. I want to be able to trust her.

Edited December 2, 2010 by VertexSquared

[carhill]

What do you think? Am I overreacting? I don't know what I should be feeling.

 

Under the circumstances you describe, I'd dump her immediately. It makes you wonder why Mike dumped her. People are creatures of habit. It appears her habits and yours are incompatible.

[VertexSquared]

This is what makes this decision *so hard*.

 

Everything has been great up until now, but I can't help but be immensely disappointed by how she handled this.

[NYCGirly]

That is what we're aiming for. She told me she lied because she didn't want me freaking out, and was embarrassed to admit that she had wondered how he was doing. But she claims to have absolutely no feelings for him, etc. I told her I had a really hard time accepting that she'd suddenly be so willing to be open and honest with me after she had just gone through a vehement chain of lies before I had to call her out on everything.

 

While I know what I did was dishonest, I feel at least I dealt with this almost immediately. I decided it was the right thing to tell her I had looked -- but I wanted to see if she'd admit it first or lie to me. Unfortunately, the latter.

 

I told her this was not going to happen again or it was over, but I admit I wanted everything to work out. She really is a sweet, intelligent girl and she seems to fully understand that what she did was wrong, unfair, and stupid.

 

But in the back of my mind it isn't so easy for me to just overlook this. I told her it was going to take time, and that she absolutely had to block the guy -- not negotiable.

 

I'm not sure if we can possibly proceed healthily at this point, but it's silly for me to assume that this is impossible to deal with. I am trying to figure out *why* she felt the need to lie to me so we can address the core issue, here. I think we both want this to work, but at the same time I don't want to let her think she can just walk over me with this crap. I want to be able to trust her.

 

Again, glad you're rational and recognize that while what she was in the wrong, you did something dishonest as well. It's just sad it came to the point of having to look at her FB messages instead of her being honest with you. Her lying to you is a huge issue. What's an even bigger issue is your willingness to overlook it (as I stated earlier). I understand loving someone, but you have to love yourself as well. You letting this go so easily doesn't show you love yourself very much. It's great you let her know that this isn't something you will get over quickly since she needs to realize the seriousness of her actions.

 

Instead of jumping back into things (if that's even possible right now) like nothing happened, I would definitely take some time to really figure out if this is something you can truly live with. She disrespected your relationship by initiating contact with an ex and then lied about it. Not good. Obviously there's something still there for her and you need to make sure she's not using you to fill the void the ex left. You don't deserve that. No one does.

 

After you take a few days to let this marinate, then I would talk to her to see what was/is going on in her mind in terms of your relationship. Either way, proceed with caution.

[sally4sara]

Under the circumstances you describe, I'd dump her immediately. It makes you wonder why Mike dumped her. People are creatures of habit. It appears her habits and yours are incompatible.

 

Maybe HE should have a drink with Mike and find out.

[Distant78]

That is what we're aiming for. She told me she lied because she didn't want me freaking out, and was embarrassed to admit that she had wondered how he was doing. But she claims to have absolutely no feelings for him, etc. I told her I had a really hard time accepting that she'd suddenly be so willing to be open and honest with me after she had just gone through a vehement chain of lies before I had to call her out on everything.

 

She's lying and is only doing damage-control so you can bring her back with open arms. She knew she wanted to see him again and that is why she pulled all that BS on you. If she didn't have feelings for him, she would've never caused all of this trouble.

 

While I know what I did was dishonest, I feel at least I dealt with this almost immediately. I decided it was the right thing to tell her I had looked -- but I wanted to see if she'd admit it first or lie to me. Unfortunately, the latter.

 

You're okay with looking at her things. It was in the confines of your own home anyway and her page was on your computer. Unfortunately it is the latter because she does not care about the relationship.

 

I told her this was not going to happen again or it was over, but I admit I wanted everything to work out. She really is a sweet, intelligent girl and she seems to fully understand that what she did was wrong, unfair, and stupid.

 

Big mistake. Very big mistake. CAN'T YOU SEE?!?!??!!?!?! SHE'S TRYING TO COME OFF AS NICE AND EASY TO WIN BACK YOUR TRUST, AND SO FAR, YOU'RE PLAYING RIGHT INTO HER TRAP. Women are known to use their beauty, body and intelligence to get what they want, and to top it off, they have the natural ability to act. She is using her natural manipulative skills to trick you. This is why you must be careful around some women, especially your girl. Drop her now!

 

But in the back of my mind it isn't so easy for me to just overlook this. I told her it was going to take time, and that she absolutely had to block the guy -- not negotiable.

 

Telling her that she can never be with you again should be non-negotiable.

 

I'm not sure if we can possibly proceed healthily at this point, but it's silly for me to assume that this is impossible to deal with. I am trying to figure out *why* she felt the need to lie to me so we can address the core issue, here. I think we both want this to work, but at the same time I don't want to let her think she can just walk over me with this crap. I want to be able to trust her.

 

You want to know why? From experience, and from generality, it's because ALL cheaters are selfish and will be selfish enough to trash their relationship/marriage for a full hour of verbal sexual discussion and a 10 minute orgasm. That's why. Because they do not care about whether they're decision to get some booty on the side will hurt the person they're with. You say you don't want her to think you're letting her walk over you, and not to be mean, but you're doing the exact opposite of what you just said. Don't let this person bring you down with their selfish ways.

[VertexSquared]

Again, glad you're rational and recognize that while what she was in the wrong, you did something dishonest as well. It's just sad it came to the point of having to look at her FB messages instead of her being honest with you. Her lying to you is a huge issue. What's an even bigger issue is your willingness to overlook it (as I stated earlier). I understand loving someone, but you have to love yourself as well. You letting this go so easily doesn't show you love yourself very much. It's great you let her know that this isn't something you will get over quickly since she needs to realize the seriousness of her actions.

 

Instead of jumping back into things (if that's even possible right now) like nothing happened, I would definitely take some time to really figure out if this is something you can truly live with. She disrespected your relationship by initiating contact with an ex and then lied about it. Not good. Obviously there's something still there for her and you need to make sure she's not using you to fill the void the ex left. You don't deserve that. No one does.

 

After you take a few days to let this marinate, then I would talk to her to see what was/is going on in her mind in terms of your relationship. Either way, proceed with caution.

 

We talked about all this... and it's honestly a mixed issue for me. I can't just get over this in a night. I feel like she really, really hurt me, and I can't believe that she did this. I found it appalling that she'd be capable of lying to me like that. It's a tough call to make. I feel like almost every person I've encountered in my life has been dishonest to me in some major way, and I couldn't help but think "Oh god, not you, too."

 

Perhaps, foolishly, I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. It's not just because I am "insecure" or "afraid to be alone" or whatever -- I genuinely love this girl. There are so many good things about the relationship. I just want to know that all those good things are REAL and that our love/trust aren't going to fly out the window at her convenience when the going gets tough.

 

She seemed to understand what I was getting at with all this, and I really hope she sticks to her word this time. I'm so torn.

[Distant78]

We talked about all this... and it's honestly a mixed issue for me. I can't just get over this in a night. I feel like she really, really hurt me, and I can't believe that she did this. I found it appalling that she'd be capable of lying to me like that. It's a tough call to make. I feel like almost every person I've encountered in my life has been dishonest to me in some major way, and I couldn't help but think "Oh god, not you, too."

 

Perhaps, foolishly, I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. It's not just because I am "insecure" or "afraid to be alone" or whatever -- I genuinely love this girl. There are so many good things about the relationship. I just want to know that all those good things are REAL and that our love/trust aren't going to fly out the window at her convenience when the going gets tough.

 

She seemed to understand what I was getting at with all this, and I really hope she sticks to her word this time. I'm so torn.

 

The fact that she can easily lie to you so casually should be setting off MAJOR RED ALARMS in your head. This is how cheaters act. It shows just how easily she can throw away your feelings and contributions to the relationship, and not even feel bad about it, which is what she did in just a short amount of time. She's convincing you to try her milkshake she made for you, which contains poison and you're foolishly about to drink it. Don't take that sip man.

[flying]

Okay, this is coming from someone who's been cheated on; I subsequently divorced my now-exH because I decided I just couldn't ever trust him again. Also, I personally think that there are times when snooping is the right thing to do; I did it in my case and I'm damned glad I did. No regrets there.

 

Those are my bona fides, so no one accuses me of siding with a cheater.

 

That said...whoa, you guys. I get that we're all trying to protect Vertex here, but can I just point out that she didn't actually cheat? I've been on the receiving end of some champion lies and had my spidey senses go all haywire on me - I totally get why Vertex wanted to double-check what was a very suspicious story. And he was right, and I personally think he did the right thing.

 

BUT - I don't think that what she did equals automatic launch or despicability forever and ever. This is not Hollywood, so let's all take off the rose-colored glasses. People make mistakes, and sometimes they're allowed to forgive for them without it meaning they've lost their manhood or womanhood. People have to negotiate different boundaries, people have to work through hidden baggage, people deal with exes and emotional confusion and whatnot ALL THE TIME in relationships - let's not sugarcoat how complicated it can all be!

 

And IMO, this is an example of a situation worth talking about and working through. It's a red flag, and I think Vertex was right to call her on it. She ****ed up. But there's no reason to assume she's scum through and through.

 

This post I'm reposting by Nukulus might have gotten lost in the flurry of posts since your thread blew up a bit, Vertex, but I think it contains a lot of very good sense and I agree with the various points made in it. I think it's worth considering these positives among the naysaying.

 

After all, there's an instinct to forgive, too. In my case, I knew, deep down, that it wasn't worth it.

 

But your instinct is to forgive here - maybe that's also worth listening to.

 

I'm more of a lurker than a poster on these boards...

 

But Vertex, I for one think you did the right thing in forgiving her.

 

However I say this... You should forgive, but don't forget. Now you know what to look out for, have removed her from this pedestal you had her on (the I don't do enough to deserve my GF thread) and can move forward---while being somewhat skeptical.

 

Positives in why I think why you two will probably be able to work through this:

 

1. Nothing happened. She didn't cheat, and it wasn't ever clear whether this really was just catching up.

2. In your postings of her messages where you reworded stuff but kept the same spirit; she mentioned having a boyfriend to him and he genuinely appeared to just be friendly. i.e. wasn't pushing for a specific date-maybe before the end of the year or maybe sometime next year. No urgency on his part.

3. In my experience when a girl is talking to a guy and mentions a boyfriend, especially when she doesn't have to, she is not-so-subtely letting said guy know that she is unavailable.

4. When you confronted her she did lie again, however, when you told her that you had already saw her messages to the guy she caved. People in my experience who are guillty of something will get defensive... I would have expected her to start giving you **** about snooping if she had any ulterior motives with the guy.

 

So I think you made the right decision by bringing it up. Letting it stew would be unhealthy. So forgive, but don't forget. Move on from this and see where it goes. 7.5 months is too much to throw away on something like this... especially if you are in love with the girl!

 

Good Luck!!!!

[Distant78]

Let's get it straight, what she did was not a mistake. It was premeditated, and not only that, she kept lying to him even in the face of evidence. That clearly shows she cannot be trusted.

[sumdude]

You did the right thing. You called her on her BS AND you fessed up to your own trespasses. Now take a step back, breathe and see how the chips fall.

[xpaperxcutx]

That said...whoa, you guys. I get that we're all trying to protect Vertex here, but can I just point out that she didn't actually cheat? I've been on the receiving end of some champion lies and had my spidey senses go all haywire on me - I totally get why Vertex wanted to double-check what was a very suspicious story. And he was right, and I personally think he did the right thing.

 

BUT - I don't think that what she did equals automatic launch or despicability forever and ever. This is not Hollywood, so let's all take off the rose-colored glasses. People make mistakes, and sometimes they're allowed to forgive for them without it meaning they've lost their manhood or womanhood. People have to negotiate different boundaries, people have to work through hidden baggage, people deal with exes and emotional confusion and whatnot ALL THE TIME in relationships - let's not sugarcoat how complicated it can all be!

 

And IMO, this is an example of a situation worth talking about and working through. It's a red flag, and I think Vertex was right to call her on it. She ****ed up. But there's no reason to assume she's scum through and through.

 

This post I'm reposting by Nukulus might have gotten lost in the flurry of posts since your thread blew up a bit, Vertex, but I think it contains a lot of very good sense and I agree with the various points made in it. I think it's worth considering these positives among the naysaying.

 

After all, there's an instinct to forgive, too. In my case, I knew, deep down, that it wasn't worth it.

 

But your instinct is to forgive here - maybe that's also worth listening to.

 

 

Exactly Flying. The people telling Vertex to instantly dump her forgot to take into account their 7 month long relationship. It may not be a year but 7 months is still a long time for someone to just up and walk away. Yes, she was caught lying, but I think it's important to take in she hasn't cheated.

 

Even in marriage, when one spouse is actually caught cheating, the BS still takes in MC as consideration to save the marriage. Shouldn't Vertex be given the same right to try to work things out before he decides to end things?

 

I personally think one night is still too short of a time for him to do anything. OP, sleep on this, and then figure out what it is you want to do. Obviously, communication is key. Don't shut yourself down because you're hurt, tell her how you feel and what you expect for her to act from now on. Set conditions and rules, that she should abide if she wants this relationship to grow stronger. The important thing is, if she wants to be with you, she would not complain about working to earn back your trust.

[threebyfate]

I'd be curious how trust can be recreated since not only did she try to b/s Vertex the first time but lied more when questioned on it.

 

Seriously consider what she could possibly do to gain back your trust. This doesn't include you having to play warden or policeman. You're not responsible for her actions but you will certainly feel the impact of her negative actions like lying.

 

Keep in mind that her lying all surrounded an ex, not because she went shopping with her girlfriends and overspent or that she got drunk with friends. She lied so she could get together with her ex, the same ex who dumped her.

 

She's a really bad bet Vertex. And the longer you stay with her, the more time you'll have wasted.

[VertexSquared]

I feel really hurt about the whole thing... how can I help regain trust in her again? How can I ensure she won't ever lie to me like that again? I don't even know if I can... that's the whole point of trust. It's a vulnerable thing. It just feels like I let myself be vulnerable and she was willing to take advantage of it for something stupid.

 

It's very much a brain-says-leave heart-says-stay scenario. I can't decide which is more reasonable. I want this to work.

[threebyfate]

That is what we're aiming for. She told me she lied because she didn't want me freaking out, and was embarrassed to admit that she had wondered how he was doing. But she claims to have absolutely no feelings for him, etc. I told her I had a really hard time accepting that she'd suddenly be so willing to be open and honest with me after she had just gone through a vehement chain of lies before I had to call her out on everything.

Vertex, one more set of thoughts. Ask her if she has no feelings for him and it was only curiosity on her part, why would she disrespect you for something so trivial? Then ask her how little she values you and your relationship to put curiosity before both.

 

Follow the logic trail. She's either incredibly selfish or still invested in the ex to some degree that she would risk the loss of a relationship for something so purportedly trivial.

[VertexSquared]

Vertex, one more set of thoughts. Ask her if she has no feelings for him and it was only curiosity on her part, why would she disrespect you for something so trivial? Then ask her how little she values you and your relationship to put curiosity before both.

 

Follow the logic trail. She's either incredibly selfish or still invested in the ex to some degree that she would risk the loss of a relationship for something so purportedly trivial.

 

That's what murders me... I can't help but acknowledge the logic trail. I am pretty sure she isn't into the guy, but then that means that when the going gets tough, she'll put herself above being honest with me. It just makes me wonder why she didn't want me knowing the full details. Because they'd make her look bad? If there was nothing to worry about, why was she hiding things from me after having brought up this entire convo to begin with?

 

I can't figure it out.