LuckyClover Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Okay friends so I was thinking a second ago and asked myself, why can't a change of heart be exactly what it is, a change of heart? Why do I get told that a change of heart comes gradually? Afterall I change my mind, heart, and soul many times a day. Pleeease... like I can stay committed to something, someone, or some group that believes to the contrary, even when evidence presents itself to that which is true. That is what I should believe. And if I believe it, why then do I recieve doubt and reserve from those that claim to be those here to recieve and purify? Are my sins not sinful enough to be cleansed? Or are they not clean enough? If you are to deciede, which then would you rather have? Because a sin is a sin my good friends and no matter the length in which you believe you made yourself clean, The change of heart is immediate. No need to judge a person, only be cautious of your surroundings. anyway enough about religion... I've been raised LDS and have been excommunicated for joining another religion. After a couple of months I didn't like this new religion, the more I was there and had time to really dig into all of their litature, I didn't believe what they were teaching. So I left it. Well in recent years I deceided that I like the LDS faith, I like what they teach and how they set things up here on earth, and the picture they paint of the life hereafter. I took the missionary discussions and have had many bishop and steak presidents interviews, thats what they call them. I even drafted and sent a letter to the first presidency begging for permission to be rebaptized. But because I don't like to go to church they won't do it. So now I feel like im dead in my sins with no way out. I believe that if someone has a change of heart enough to put forth an effort to ask for help, ask for encouragement, and beg to be considered that that would be enough to say this person is ready to receive help. Isn't the gift of the Holy Ghost just that? Help? So why am I not good enough for that help? Why? because I fell away? Because I was deceived? Sorry God, I really thought I was giving my life(the life i enjoyed) up to serve You. My bad. So now what? I hate sinning.. Can't really go to the other side... Don't like it, don't believe what they stand for. But according to just about everyone, no man can serve two masters. Can't be neutral. So yeah I just feel screwed. Link to post Share on other sites
Disillusioned Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Sounds like you're having a crisis of faith not unlike what my buddy recently went through. He was raised Catholic and got angrier and angrier the more he thought about what he called the hypocrisy of the clergy... until I nudged him toward neo-paganism and he said it felt like a whole new world opened up before him. While not a believer myself (too much empirical reasoning is my problem), I'm a lot more sympathetic toward European witchcraft and African voodoo than I am towards the half-baked Protestantism my family tried to raise me in... but trying to distance oneself from a strict religious upbringing is NEVER easy, whether Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. Know what you're doing before you make the leap. Link to post Share on other sites
aerogurl87 Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I'll tell you this, as long as you believe in God and that he sent his Son to die for our sins, and do your best to follow in Christ's footsteps, I think you'll be ok. Remember Romans 8:38,39 says "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." I don't really go to church much and I don't consider myself to be doomed. God said that his church on Earth would be made up of all people who flock to learn more about him and serve him. Serve our Holy Father in heaven who can grant eternal life, not men who can offer you nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 because I don't like to go to church they won't do it. So now I feel like im dead in my sins with no way out. I believe that if someone has a change of heart enough to put forth an effort to ask for help, ask for encouragement, and beg to be considered you're going to encounter many challenges to your faith along your personal journey, but they're meant to make you stronger in your belief ... or, as with the refining of silver, meant to cast out impurities ... from what I'm reading between the lines, you feel you're doing your part by acknowledging your change of heart and alerting the elders to this fact, but you still have reservation about wholly committing to what you profess to believe. Because to be actively involved in your faith, you learn to be actively involved in church life. In your particular case, it means being part of the community as a whole by worshiping with them as a community, not just doing your own thing. it's a hard decision for anyone, because we don't like to leave our personal comfort zones. We want carte blanche permission to worship as we see fit, and completely overlook the beauty of being part of that group that prays together, worships together, acts together. It's all part of being the Body of Christ. The eye is no more important than the foot or the brain or the hand, because it's only together that they are able to operate to the fullest capacity. And I'm guessing that this is what your elders want you to realize – not that you're imperfect or a sinner because you want to do it your way, but because there's a special grace in living your faith as a member of that community, not as the Lone Stranger! Link to post Share on other sites
michelangelo Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I think if I were you I would move out of Southern Utah if you can't handle the whole Ward meetings and Stake meetings thing. LDS religiosity is really hard to do if you haven't fully accepted and submitted to the ritualized control of your life. Just because you found the other church you joined to be lacking doesn't mean you can't find something else to join. But in Utah? LDS is so woven into the place that you will be limiting your life being a non-LDS person there. Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted December 3, 2010 Share Posted December 3, 2010 I'll tell you this, as long as you believe in God and that he sent his Son to die for our sins, and do your best to follow in Christ's footsteps, I think you'll be ok. Remember Romans 8:38,39 says "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." I don't really go to church much and I don't consider myself to be doomed. God said that his church on Earth would be made up of all people who flock to learn more about him and serve him. Serve our Holy Father in heaven who can grant eternal life, not men who can offer you nothing. Aero, I thought you posted that you're not a Christian, but your BF is. That post makes it sound like you know what Christianity is about. Link to post Share on other sites
creighton0123 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 You seem to be doing quite a bit of looking outside of yourself. You wanted to leave one religion for another (fine in and of itself), but you didn't like this new religion and wanted to return to LDS after excommunication. They said: "You need to do this, this, this, and that in order to return" and you believed that it's too much work. You then wrote "Are my sins not sinful enough to be cleansed? Or are they not clean enough? If you are to deciede, which then would you rather have? Because a sin is a sin my good friends and no matter the length in which you believe you made yourself clean" You focus quite a bit on sin, but I would ask you what it means to be a sinner. Is a sinner someone who does bad things or loves doing bad things? I'm not here to offer you advice on what you should or should not do regarding your personal faith. Instead, I would just offer a bit of insight. A person does not need to go to a monastery or a temple or a church, does not need to meditate, pray, or worship in order to live a moral life. If you live your life in a way that causes no intentional or avoidable harm to others simply because you do not want to cause intentional or avoidable harm to others, then you'll find that things get more clear. What's going on in your head is so incredibly loud. It's seems as though it's very noisy in there. Maybe that's why you're looking outside of yourself for answers on what to do. Perhaps you could work a little on silencing your mind, quieting your energy and evaluating where it is that you think you should go. Feeling lost in the woods for such a spiritual person is never an easy thing. There is no quick fix when it comes to finding yourself, but you can start by calming down and understanding that things are going to be okay. Empty yourself of greed. Empty yourself of desire, dedicate yourself to living a simple and honest way to better yourself and better others and you will soon find your way, whether it's in a Mormon Temple, a Christian Church, a pagan circle, a Buddhist shrine, a Jewish synagogue, a mosque, or any other establishment of any other spiritual path that completes you. Religion causes so much conflict. Self-analysis and walking a spiritual path tends to mop up the mock much faster than looking to others for answers about you. Best wishes, RJ Link to post Share on other sites
Yer_Blues Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 (edited) Don't take the actions of organized religions and their judgements directly into your faith, if that is what you have. I'm a former Catholic who went through some serious depression in my teenage years when I lost the faith. All of the guilt and sin is unhealthy. My reccomendation would be to get more life-centric views and allow any spirituality you have to settle in with that. Look at the "sins" you don't want to commit and see if you can justify not wanting to commit through your own personal experiences and emotions in life instead of justifying it by serving one "master" or another. The real master is you, after all, in my opinion, regardless of your faith or beliefs. Edited December 7, 2010 by Yer_Blues Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 All of the guilt and sin is unhealthy. only if you fail to learn from the situations that put you in a state of disgrace. Because guilt is like a spiritual alarm that alerts you to behavior (soul) that is detrimental to your soul, meant only to help you get right in your relationship with your Maker ... just my 2 cents Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 They said: "You need to do this, this, this, and that in order to return" and you believed that it's too much work. my in-laws live in a Bible-belt state half-way across the country from us. The women in the family are pretty grounded in their faith, and even if they don't always attend services like they feel they should be their actions model their faith in Christ. The men ... that's a different story. Not sure how it came about, whether it was the wife of one of the men who shared her worries about Husband needing a reminder that he needed to get straight with God, but the young Baptist preacher friend of the couple corners Husband in the parking lot of the local DQ and started preaching salvation. Husband tells preacher-boy that yes, he'll pray the salvation prayer so he could be saved, but he wasn't going to change his lifestyle one bit, that he was going to continue on as he was ... and the preacher told him that was fine. I guess the "magic prayer" superceded any actual salvation on God's behalf, huh? Menso preacher was teaching false theology! OP, do you see the connection between you and Husband? You both agree that you need to do something to feed your soul, but on your terms, rather than keeping yourself open to ways of feeding your soul. Being recognized for recognizing your sin isn't what brings salvation, it's allowing God to transform your heart so that you become a true, active member of the Body of Christ that you profess to believe in. Link to post Share on other sites
austyre Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Hello I am also LDS I believe maybe you should focus more on Jesus than going to any church if you have a testimony of him then everything else does not matter I figured that institional religion especially LDS can only get you so far plus there's a lot of work invovled esp interviews with the brethen stake/bishopric way too much for my liking changing church's is not changing your belief imho its like going to another house but your still the same person> you just need to reinforce you belief in Jesus however being LDS you will always have more added to your plate I still go too my local ward however i would say I am very cautious/critical about alot of things esp LDS all considering a used to be TBM(True blue Mormon)holding stake callings and ward callings being sealed all those crazy stuff now I'd say I am just a visitor not wanting anything from church good luck with what ever you choose :):)message if you want Link to post Share on other sites
worlybear Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 ermmm.... What is lsd? Link to post Share on other sites
worlybear Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Sorry, I meant to say what is LDS!:o:o Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Sorry, I meant to say what is LDS!:o:o Latter Day Saints.... or Mormonism. Link to post Share on other sites
Yer_Blues Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 All of the guilt and sin is unhealthy. only if you fail to learn from the situations that put you in a state of disgrace. Because guilt is like a spiritual alarm that alerts you to behavior (soul) that is detrimental to your soul, meant only to help you get right in your relationship with your Maker ... just my 2 cents I see this state of disgrace as being guilt that is thrown on from an absolute authority, whose will is handed down by one form or organization or another, not as the reflection of some form of soul. There are people who do not believe in any higher power who still would feel discomfort and disgrace from certain actions. I feel real sickened, however, when human organizations think they have the right to pass judgement on somebody in this manner in the name of anything. I've read the teachings of Jesus, and I recall treating others as you would yourself and not passing judgement on others when you yourself are imperfect as being somewhat important. I don't recall too much on the front of excommunication or holding people hostage spiritually. Link to post Share on other sites
Duckduckgoose Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 One of the most popular parables in the Bible is that of the Prodigal Son. Can the elders not see that you wandered like the prodigal son did, but are now coming back to the Father, repentant of your sins? God does not condemn you for that, it is the elders (humans and therefore imperfect) that are attempting to condemn you. If they cannot accept this, maybe they need to read the Bible and study what is in it a little more. You are a sheep that has wandered from the flock, but you are back now so it's time to rejoin the flock. I really think these elders are missing the whole point. Link to post Share on other sites
Disillusioned Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 If you really think a bunch of old duffers who died a couple of thousand years ago in the Middle East know better than you how to live your life, then you're darn tootin' you feel screwed! Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) If you really think a bunch of old duffers who died a couple of thousand years ago in the Middle East know better than you how to live your life, then you're darn tootin' you feel screwed! Nothing wrong with what DuckDuck said. Those men and women 2,000 years ago were much closer to the historic events than we are, and their forebears kept the traditions, much like the Native Americans and others that passed rules and philosophies down to their offspring. Just bec. it's old doesn't mean it isn't valid. You're normally a pretty positive guy, Dissillusioned. Why the cynicism here? Edited February 5, 2011 by Floridaman Link to post Share on other sites
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