Guys: thoughts on young(20's) single moms

[musemaj11]

Alright, musemaj, just don't expect people NOT to rip on you for all your future posts of 'Woe is us men, we is being used'.

Men are indeed being used.

 

Besides, I fail to see anything untrue about what I said regarding young single mothers.

 

You yourself dont want a guy who has kids. What are your reasons? I wanna see if they are anymore valid than mine.

[sally4sara]

Men are indeed being used.

 

Besides, I fail to see anything untrue about what I said regarding young single mothers.

 

You yourself dont want a guy who has kids. What are your reasons? I wanna see if they are anymore valid than mine.

 

I turned down a guy with a kid. His kid was waaayyy ill behaved. I considered that bonding well enough to someone else's kid to help them learn to behave better would take potentially, a long while during which my own kid might be learning bad habits.

 

But you know what I didn't do? I didn't pin it all on the guy and write him off as a baggage ridden, crazy, drama filled time bomb waiting to happen. It wasn't a situation I felt I could live up to at the time.

There are people of all sorts out there from those with too much on their plate, all the way to simply too effed in the head that should never ever consider involving themselves in the life of anyone with a child. But it says a lot (about them) when that manifests as trash talking every single mother.

 

That you might be someone who can't live up to what might be involved is one thing and its not something you should be ashamed of admitting. But that is on you and your values and circumstances - otherwise referred to as YOUR baggage and tendencies for drama. No one is without some.

[Untouchable_Fire]

It is really awful that you've come to think of marriage (either entirely OR just to a single mother) as you gaining nothing. Why would you be with anyone if you feel this way? Have you never known anyone who added to your life just by being in it?

 

I think of marriage in 2 different ways. As a religious institution marriage is amazing, and given the right woman I would gladly take the plunge.

 

As a legal institution marriage is nothing more than an financial transaction. I don't see the point in it. The fact that Gay people fight so hard for it blows me away. I think they just have not realized that with marriage comes divorce... or maybe they think the courts can't play favorites if they are both the same gender.

 

... All that said. I'm fairly certain that I would be willing to marry my current GF. She isn't from America originally, and so she takes a much different approach to marriage. It isn't just about what she can get from me... or about her getting to have a big wedding, or getting access to my finances... or any of the other things that American women want. Instead it's about love, family and having children.

[Els]

Men are indeed being used.

 

Besides, I fail to see anything untrue about what I said regarding young single mothers.

 

You yourself dont want a guy who has kids. What are your reasons? I wanna see if they are anymore valid than mine.

 

What is so wrong about 'being used', if it's all just a 'business' and we're all with people just for the list of 'benefits' that they bring us? You're just doing it to each other.

 

My reason is that I don't want kids. I, however, don't accuse people who do, of being desperate.

[sally4sara]

... All that said. I'm fairly certain that I would be willing to marry my current GF. She isn't from America originally, and so she takes a much different approach to marriage. It isn't just about what she can get from me... or about her getting to have a big wedding, or getting access to my finances... or any of the other things that American women want. Instead it's about love, family and having children.

 

Ever stopped to think that maybe she has a different approach to marriage, one you happen to respond to well and just happens to be from another country?

 

I didn't marry for reasons other than love and family. We already were all "love and family" before we got married. Pretty sure I was born in America. I'm just not convinced its all chocked up to the ethnicity and culture thing like you want to believe.

[sb129]

Oh my.

................................

 

Next!

[sb129]

I wasn't going to bite, but I can't help it.

 

In your post, Fourth Planet, you have made no mention of women who are "single mothers" because

 

- their husband/ partner buggered off (and its not just women who don't take "parenthood seriously" lots of daddy deserters out there)

 

- their husband/ partner cheated on them (should people really stay in an unfaithful R "for the kids"?)

 

- their husband/ partner died

 

If you manage to handle the above examples with the same panache and finesse you dealt with your other "examples", we may have a decent discussion on our hands.

[sb129]

Fourth planet, you aren't a mother, so there is absolutely no way in hell you can ever fully understand or comment on what its like to be one.

 

Yes, its hard work. Yes, its a "heavy responsibility". There is a certain amount of self sacrifice, and self denial.

 

We aren't NUNS living in a convent though mate!!!

 

There is no rule that says you aren't allowed to have a relationship.

 

I am married, and I still have time to devote to my relationship- if what you are saying is true I should devote myself 100% to my child and leave my husband with the dregs.

[musemaj11]

What is so wrong about 'being used', if it's all just a 'business' and we're all with people just for the list of 'benefits' that they bring us? You're just doing it to each other.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of ethics.

 

But I am. Even if its only business, I dont condone taking advantage of others. I put fairness above all. I wouldnt take, what I couldnt give.

 

My reason is that I don't want kids.

Fair enough.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Ever stopped to think that maybe she has a different approach to marriage, one you happen to respond to well and just happens to be from another country?

I didn't marry for reasons other than love and family. We already were all "love and family" before we got married. Pretty sure I was born in America. I'm just not convinced its all chocked up to the ethnicity and culture thing like you want to believe.

 

I can't say for sure why you chose to get married. The difference is that you already had kids... thus you already had a family. So I can say for sure marriage means something different to you than it does her.

 

Here is the real difference as I see it. I've never met an American girl who wanted to get married some day... who didn't want the financial benefits that go with it.

 

My GF would be totally willing to pass on all that stuff to just have a religious marriage. I honestly never differentiated the two until she talked about it one night.

 

You need to come to terms with the fact that most of the women around you are not high quality.

 

-- Another obvious reason why you shouldn't date single mothers is because they are never really dating you for you. They are dating you to satisfy a current urge or need: sex or to alleviate loneliness, boredom and to provide financial support or baby sitting needs.

 

Yeah... I pretty much disagree with most of what your saying.

 

Here is where I think you are going wrong. First, not all single mothers wanted to be single mothers. Some naively married abusers or cheats... ect. Some didn't even intend to get pregnant while dating.... There is a whole range.

 

Next, single mothers don't have a requirement to pass up on romantic love to raise their kids. That just doesn't make sense.

 

Also, just because they don't look for another father doesn't mean they don't respect fathers in general.

 

I kind of get where you are coming from.... and YES women actively incentivize the vast majority of bad male behavior while concurrently punishing and discouraging men from acting in a genteel or honorable way. That doesn't mean we should reduce ourselves to that level. Instead we should rise above it and take the reigns again.

[sally4sara]

I can't say for sure why you chose to get married. The difference is that you already had kids... thus you already had a family. So I can say for sure marriage means something different to you than it does her.

 

Perhaps. And perhaps what marriage means to her will alter if, after having a kid, her husband takes off, cheats, abuses etc. Because if that happens, this awesome girl you have will then be a single mother.

And me already having a kid didn't change my values concerning marriage. Not even the fact that my ex couldn't live up to what marriage means to me (and most other folks;)) changed my values about marriage. Having a baby made (medically) having another baby a risky undertaking. If my husband wanted one and I didn't have such a risk in that, we'd be all about making the babies as part of what marriage means to us. But he doesn't want one and I'm fine with that too.

 

Here is the real difference as I see it. I've never met an American girl who wanted to get married some day... who didn't want the financial benefits that go with it.

 

Who wouldn't want the benefits of having a person they love in their life? What are these benefits that go with marriage that only American women want? Are you talking about a single income house hold becoming a dual income house hold? We hell UF! That goes with every shared living situation, even roomates. Why would women be wrong in seeing that as a plus when its just going to happen if you marry someone no matter how high or low money is on your list of priorities. And the dual income increase is a benefit to both, not just women.

The fancy frou frou wedding? There are more JOP and Vegas quickies than full scale marriages here in the states. Because they are less stressful and expensive. If American women always get married for the frou frou, why are so many marriages JOP?

Beyond that I'm at a loss. I just don't get what it is that you consider a benefit that only American women are wrong in wanting nor do I get how any benefit in marriage only benefits one and not both.

 

 

My GF would be totally willing to pass on all that stuff to just have a religious marriage. I honestly never differentiated the two until she talked about it one night.

 

You need to come to terms with the fact that most of the women around you are not high quality.

 

There in lies the difference between you and I. One, I don't think your GF is awesome just because she is from some other country. She is awesome period if she is compatible with you and you should be giving her, not her nationality the credit. And Two, when I'm having one of those black days of maudlin and noticing how self interested some people are, I never stop to hold one gender (or any one group of people) responsible for it. You need to come to terms with the fact that most of the people around you are either not high quality or your personal cup of tea and you're going to find that anywhere you go. Some times people just suck.

[AlektraClementine]

Just a quick point. Another variable being totally overlooked. Some single mothers are not looking for a stand-in for dad.

 

My ex husband is the father of my children. He was and still is a stellar dad.

 

Geesh. There are so many people talking nonsense here. No offense against those posting their opinions about not wanting to date a single mom, but I'm really not understanding those w/o children or those who've never dated folks with children spouting off these absolutes about single moms. Shouldn't bother me, I know but some of it is really nasty

[Untouchable_Fire]

Perhaps. And perhaps what marriage means to her will alter if, after having a kid, her husband takes off, cheats, abuses etc. Because if that happens, this awesome girl you have will then be a single mother.

And me already having a kid didn't change my values concerning marriage. Not even the fact that my ex couldn't live up to what marriage means to me (and most other folks;)) changed my values about marriage. Having a baby made (medically) having another baby a risky undertaking. If my husband wanted one and I didn't have such a risk in that, we'd be all about making the babies as part of what marriage means to us. But he doesn't want one and I'm fine with that too.

 

There are very few things in life that I completely control... and I can guarantee with 100% certainty that if my GF and I tie the knot... she will never have to deal with a cheating spouse.

 

Eh? Marriage isn't just about making babies. It's about moving in the same direction in life with someone you love. When I reference family.... I'm talking about more than just husband, wife, and 2.3 kids.

 

Who wouldn't want the benefits of having a person they love in their life? What are these benefits that go with marriage that only American women want? Are you talking about a single income house hold becoming a dual income house hold? We hell UF! That goes with every shared living situation, even roomates. Why would women be wrong in seeing that as a plus when its just going to happen if you marry someone no matter how high or low money is on your list of priorities. And the dual income increase is a benefit to both, not just women.

The fancy frou frou wedding? There are more JOP and Vegas quickies than full scale marriages here in the states. Because they are less stressful and expensive. If American women always get married for the frou frou, why are so many marriages JOP?

Beyond that I'm at a loss. I just don't get what it is that you consider a benefit that only American women are wrong in wanting nor do I get how any benefit in marriage only benefits one and not both.

 

Don't be silly... those things are all true. Though I don't know the statistics on size and scale of weddings... I know many of the vegas or JOP weddings are a womans 2nd- 10th marriages. It's really common to want a big wedding... and there is a very large, very rich industry built around it here in this country.

 

The benefit most American women are going for is intertwining finances. It benefits both while the marriage is going strong, but winds up as a financial dagger at the man's throat. I think at this point you can say statistically pretty much every marriage here ends in divorce. They say 60%, but that is a false number. Each individual marriage over the course of 50 years has about an 80% fail rate. So having fiscal leverage when the relationship fails is very important to women in America. If your not willing to submit to that... it is most often characterized as though your untrusting... or damaged. Even though your chances are TERRIBLE of having things work out for the best.

 

Let me ask you this. I see tons of American women who have no issue having children out of wedlock... yet they are constantly looking for marriage.... Why?

 

There in lies the difference between you and I. One, I don't think your GF is awesome just because she is from some other country. She is awesome period if she is compatible with you and you should be giving her, not her nationality the credit. And Two, when I'm having one of those black days of maudlin and noticing how self interested some people are, I never stop to hold one gender (or any one group of people) responsible for it. You need to come to terms with the fact that most of the people around you are either not high quality or your personal cup of tea and you're going to find that anywhere you go. Some times people just suck.

 

My GF is awesome because of who she is... not all women from other countries are good. Just like technically not all women here are bad. However, I have a huge amount of dating experience... and it's taught me that American women while they are often great people, are terrible wives and lovers... and from what I see a great many are frighteningly bad mothers. A recent study showed that American women on average spend 30 minutes a week talking with their teenage children. 30 minutes... just 30 minutes... a week! Best part about it... was that when asked they inflated that time by nearly times 10.

 

Fact is... I don't have a problem with people. I understand people for the most part. I get it. The culture I hate. It's a culture created around wealth and excess. It's trained women here to think and act a certain way, and most of that is negative. You cannot deny that.

[MrNate]

my thought on dating young single moms? never.

[Els]

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of ethics.

 

But I am. Even if its only business, I dont condone taking advantage of others. I put fairness above all. I wouldnt take, what I couldnt give.

 

It's called 'fair trade' in business. They use you, you use them. Each for their own 'benefits'. Since according to you, there should be nothing wrong with men using women for sex, beauty, and youth, and women using men for status and money.

[Maggotface]

I'm a young single mother and generally don't have a problem dating someone. Sometimes it scares a guy away but not usually. It mostly only scares away the younger guys (19-23) but the older ones don't seem to care, I guess they're more mature and ready to handle children, while the younger ones are too busy partying and don't want to worry about babies. That's just my guess.

 

I don't expect anyone I date to be daddy, my son already has one of those. I'd rather my baby not have any part in my love life actually and very few guys Ive been with have even met him.

 

The guy I'm seeing now is a young father, which is new for me! It's a little weird because I've never dated another parent but I don't see myself seeing his daughter anytime soon and it doesnt affect our relationship.

[musemaj11]

It's called 'fair trade' in business. They use you, you use them. Each for their own 'benefits'. Since according to you, there should be nothing wrong with men using women for sex, beauty, and youth, and women using men for status and money.

Using women for sex beauty n youth? What r u talking about? If u think sex is enjoyed only by one person then its pretty sad. Beauty n youth? R u saying men on the other hand are ageless or what? That makes no sense.

[Els]

Using women for sex beauty n youth? What r u talking about? If u think sex is enjoyed only by one person then its pretty sad. Beauty n youth? R u saying men on the other hand are ageless or what? That makes no sense.

 

Don't play dumb. You know what I mean. Men prioritize sex, beauty and youth more so than women do. Women prioritize status and financial security more so than men do. When both parties ONLY seek the above 'benefits' that a partner can bring to them without thought for the person underneath, they are 'using' the other person for those 'benefits'. You made the post bemoaning such a state of society yourself. I'm sure you don't need me to link it.

 

Unless, of course, what you mean is that men are being 'used' for status and financial security, while them choosing a mate only for the external 'benefits' she can bring them is completely acceptable and the natural order of things.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Elswyth

[musemaj11]

Don't play dumb. You know what I mean. Men prioritize sex, beauty and youth more so than women do. Women prioritize status and financial security more so than men do. You made the post bemoaning such a state of society yourself. I'm sure you don't need me to link it.

Yea and since women generally desire sex less and get older faster while men age slower and usually get even richer as they get older, then who gets cheated more in a marriage? Anyone with half a brain can see that its clearly not a 'fair trade'. Its a pity that most men dont realize this fact.

 

The German philosopher Arthur Schoepenhauer got it right. He said:

 

"A woman's short term incredible beauty is a God-given weapon for survival that with it a woman can hope to capture the imagination of a man and trap him into a marriage and he in turn will provide for her and ensure her survival for the rest of her life even after her beauty long gone."

Marriage is bad business for men. I dont think Im ever gonna get married. If I do, its only if the woman has more than me.

Edited December 6, 2010 by musemaj11

[Els]

... So your post about not bemoaning the state of gender roles in dating and treating it as a business means what again?

 

By the way, you can really turn this around, you know. Date a woman who isn't hot but successful in her career, then. Split finances 50/50. Such women are often overlooked. I'm sure this proposition will suit your business senses fine. Why don't you?

 

Also, I'm sure you don't need a biology lesson to tell you that both genders age at the same rate. The average life expectancy for women is higher, in fact. C'mon, now...

[musemaj11]

... So your post about not bemoaning the state of gender roles in dating and treating it as a business means what again?

Means men need to wake up and realize that they are getting manipulated.

 

By the way, you can really turn this around, you know. Date a woman who isn't hot but successful in her career, then. Split finances 50/50. Such women are often overlooked. I'm sure this proposition will suit your business senses fine. Why don't you?

Lol, a research shows that even the richest women still want men who are as rich or richer than them.

 

I have been looking for the link for days but I cant find it.

 

Also, I'm sure you don't need a biology lesson to tell you that both genders age at the same rate. The average life expectancy for women is higher, in fact. C'mon, now...

I meant men age more gracefully which is a fact.

 

A man who is handsome in his 20s will remain handsome at least until his 40s.

 

While a woman's beauty will start to take a nose dive by her 30s.

[Eeyore79]

Yes I would, because if all she can get is a fat guy, then her options are limited as well. A fat guy with no money or career will most likely settle for a single mom. Now if he had money and success, he has more options.

 

I'm curious about what makes you think that a girl would only date a fat guy because he was all she could get. For some people, their partner's weight isn't really important. My current boyfriend is on the heavy side, but he's a lovely, intelligent and talented person - I have dated numerous slimmer guys but I happen to like my current boyfriend better.

 

I don't mind somebody being overweight, and would date them even if I had other options who were slimmer. Kids would be a dealbreaker for me though - I would only date someone with kids if I had absolutely no other options. Other people's priorities are different - they don't mind kids but absolutely don't want someone who's fat. Each to their own... whatever you have to offer, somebody will want it.

[soxfan1032]

I just broke up with a divorced woman, 44, 2 kids, daughter 21 and son 7. Kids have different fathers, only the sons dad is actively involved.

I'm 52 and obviously was temporarily insane to give this a go.

 

There is nothing, let me repeat, nothing for a man to gain by entering a relationship with a single mom. Let me make clear this applys only to a situation where the kids are living at home and still dependents.

 

Both her kids where at home. The 21 yr old is a "princess" and therefore will only leave when her prince charming shows the F up.

 

For the man, or woman, who enters the world of a single mom/dad it becomes nothing but a life of giving and compromise. Kids come first, that is a fact. They need and demand attention. In my case the 21 yr old demanded as much attention as the 7 yr old. She resented me because i took moms time away from her. She already made it clear that i was not their father.

 

You can't expect the mom to give you any priority. It won't happen. As soon as you try to give yourself some priority by doing things you may want to do once in awhile you are called selfish. This is a family and you need to be part of it and act like it. So you need to do all the stuff the real dad or in this case dads doesnt do. It's a thankless task. Then you have as in my case the ex coming around wanting to still have sex with mom. Yes that happens way more then you think. They shared this beautiful kid together they always have that bond. I don't care what the f she says she will hop into bed with him in a snap. They all dream of having the family back together and do it right this time.

 

So young men old men take it from me, no single moms. There is no payoff.

[sally4sara]

Its a sad thing when you look through this thread full people weighing in saying there is nothing to be gained in being in the life of a child as they grow. That the presence of a child is in direct competition to your own gain in a relationship. May none of you ever be given access to any children, biological or not because if that is how you feel then the only reason you'd have in bringing your own in to the world is to stroke your own procreative abilities. And that isn't enough to adequately qualify you for the job. You'll do nothing but bring more broken people into the world.

 

And then these same people try to say something about mothers being **** at parenting.................. These same people whinge on about the state of the modern family. Its disgusting.

 

Have none of you brothers or sisters? Cousins? Students of some sort? If there was nothing gained in involvement with children, we'd have long ago died off.

[Woggle]

There is much to be gained in the life of a child. This I don't agree but another thing to worry about is that if a woman has a disposable attitude towards fatherhood a man can end up forming a bond with the child and out of the blue she dumps him and severs that bond. Being a stepfather can be a great thing but there are just so many more cons than pros when it comes to dating single moms unless they are one of the exceptions.