Guys: thoughts on young(20's) single moms

[Woggle]

I don't think men are useless or disposable.

 

I hate the thought of life without my husband. For lots of reasons.

 

You don't and not all women do but this attitude is sadly very common these days.

[sally4sara]

Get real! Just because a guy does not want to spend his time, money, and energy raising another man's child makes him bad? Or bad with kids? C'mon.

 

Broken people most often come from broken homes. Besides how do you feel about step dads disciplining non-bio children?

 

Besides... it takes a real unfeeling person to suggest that men get involved with children that they have NO RIGHTS TO. Chances of having a lasting relationship with a single mom are astronomically bad. But that's right... go ahead and bond with the child... Don't worry about having the child snapped away whenever the Single Mom decides things are not working to her satisfaction. That can't possibly hurt a man.... because men are like robots with no feeling or emotion. Right?

 

I have no problem with my husband disciplining my son. Are you talking about beatings? That's not how it goes down in my house. We use consequences and talking, not force, and it works just great for us. People are always commenting on how mature and pleasant my son is.

And the risk of bonding? Be smart about it. Get to know the mom first REAL WELL before even getting around the kid. I suggest about a year.

 

My husband, as a step father, has blown me away with how naturally he has taken to parenting. The patience he has shown and the skill set he shares with my son are far and away an improvement on that of his bio father. We don't bad mouth my ex. We make sure my son has no reason to feel we don't support his relationship with his bio dad. My son loves them both. For my son's 13 bday just a month ago, he went with one of his friends and my husband to see Suicidal Tendencies at an all ages show and climbed in the pit. He had a blast and came home all sweating and beaming. the next day his dad picked him up and they went laser tagging and to a movie.

I fully believe part of why my ex is now drying up and trying to live right is because he sees that if he doesn't, its all going to pass him by. Even he is now wanting to gravitate to my husband and make amends. Trying to make nice and friendly. Perhaps one day it will be all three of them in that mosh pit at some show.

[EasyHeart]

It seems to me that some people in the thread are trying to twist the thread question from "young single mothers in their 20s" to "ALL single mothers". There's a huge difference. Most men in their 20s aren't interested in raising any kids, let alone someone else's, and they have plenty of options because there are lots and lots of single women in their 20s.

 

If you have the choice between two women, but one of them includes taking responsibility for a child, most rational people are going to choose the childless woman, unless the single mother brings a lot more to the table than any childless woman does. That's just common sense.

[MJ2]

Just because you decide to date a woman with a child DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE RESPONSIBLE for them!! It doesn't mean that you should even meet the child!! Maybe later on down the road if u feel a connection with the mom and want a longterm relationship!!! Goodness people!!!!

[TheShyIntrovert]

Want nothing to do with them. I have a coworker who flirts with me and she is either 21-22 and she has a one year old and two year old. Focus on taking care of your kids.

[zengirl]

Men do not make single mothers. Single mothers make themselves. The epidemic of single motherhood is almost entirely due to women's choices to bring children into the world with little concern as to whether their children's fathers will play any role in their children's lives. If we have a 40-45% out of wedlock birthrate in the U.S. (it's 70% among African Americans), it's because women are choosing not to delay childbirth until marriage. If we have a 60% divorce rate, in which four out of five divorces are initiated by women, it is because women are choosing to divorce their husbands. The epidemic of divorce and out of wedlock child raising is due almost entirely to women's choices and decisions to raise children alone and being unconcerned to be sure that their children's fathers are involved in their lives.

 

What makes a divorce initiated by a woman? If a husband cheats on a wife, breaking his marriage vow, and she divorces him, is it her fault? What if both partners agree and the woman happens to be the one who gets around to the paperwork? I feel pretty certain that 80% of divorced men didn't want to stay married and faithful, so this 4/5 number is lame, not that I know where you got it.

 

Also: Men have to be there to make a baby, if it's out of wedlock. Birth control is not perfect. Just as much the man's fault -- and responsibility -- as the woman's.

[Woggle]

There are many men who deserve to be divorced but look at the divorce forum on this board to see that many are good husbands who had their wives screw around on them or she had a mid life crisis or whatever. If a woman did that to one man she will do it to me.

[112233]

Men have to be there to make a baby, if it's out of wedlock. Birth control is not perfect. Just as much the man's fault -- and responsibility -- as the woman's.

 

Not really. When a person has greater power over something, the flip side is greater responsibility. Women have vastly more power and options than men in this area, and thus should have vastly more responsibility.

[AverageJoe]

A guy cant call you and say, guess what, im pregnant.

 

 

BTW great post TFP.

[Mutant Debutante]

Anyone who believes a man who puts his unprotected penis into a vagina and then ejaculates millions of sperm into it is an innocent bystander, a "passenger" and has nothing to do with the pregnancy is a giant *******. So thanks for clearing that up about yourself.

[Green]

Anyone who believes a man who puts his unprotected penis into a vagina and then ejaculates millions of sperm into it is an innocent bystander, a "passenger" and has nothing to do with the pregnancy is a giant *******. So thanks for clearing that up about yourself.

 

go read the thread about the woman who is 41 weeks pregnant (I'm guessing with her bf in the thread) and who is talking about walking away from him because he can't control his niece (which she probably knew all along) then you come talk to me about single moms.

 

No one said any one is inocent but if you don't see how men A) are shackled to pay for these kids in ways that legaly favor women and then B) have these women in the dating scene NOT ALWAYS DISCLOSING THEY ARE A MOTHER right off the bat.. then being all entitled about it... hmmm

 

I DONT WANT TO DATE SINGLE MOTHERS... I DON"T KNOW ANY ONE WHO DOES... I think men who date single mothers are generaly losers... and when I see a normal guy dating a single mother I think to myself... hmmm wonder what that is about... because its that rare

[sweetjasmine]

how men A) are shackled to pay for these kids in ways that legaly favor women

 

If people are really scared of being "shackled" to pay for potential children, they should probably stop sticking their dicks in fertile women's vaginas. If I were that scared, I wouldn't risk even a 1% birth control failure rate.

 

If refraining from vaginal sex is unacceptable, then you're accepting the risk of a potential pregnancy and whatever course it may take when you have vaginal sex with someone, assuming you yourself are fertile.

 

It's bullsh-t to accept that risk and have sex with someone and then turn around and attempt to deny all responsibility.

[Untouchable_Fire]

There are many men who deserve to be divorced but look at the divorce forum on this board to see that many are good husbands who had their wives screw around on them or she had a mid life crisis or whatever. If a woman did that to one man she will do it to me.

 

Actually it feels like adulterous women, and cheated on men make up 75% of the infidelity and divorce forum.

 

Woggle... your not the only one that looks around and sees women cheating everywhere. I see it too.

 

I'm with an amazing woman right now. She makes me believe. However I just feel like a large portion of my heart is missing. I don't struggle with it when she is around, but when she is busy... the numbness returns.

[Untouchable_Fire]

If people are really scared of being "shackled" to pay for potential children, they should probably stop sticking their dicks in fertile women's vaginas. If I were that scared, I wouldn't risk even a 1% birth control failure rate.

If refraining from vaginal sex is unacceptable, then you're accepting the risk of a potential pregnancy and whatever course it may take when you have vaginal sex with someone, assuming you yourself are fertile.

It's bullsh-t to accept that risk and have sex with someone and then turn around and attempt to deny all responsibility.

 

So you are saying that it's Ok for women to dodge responsibility for sex... but not men? If you get pregnant... you can murder the baby at any point before it's born and legally your all good.

 

That attitude is just sick. Personally... I expect a woman to take just as much responsibility as me. If she wanted to abort my child... I'd do everything within my power to stop it.

 

Fact is that I have no fear of being a single father. I would be very good at it. But I'm scared to death of having my child in a situation I can't control.

[sweetjasmine]

So you are saying that it's Ok for women to dodge responsibility for sex...

 

Now where in the heck did you get that from?

 

If you get pregnant... you can murder the baby at any point before it's born and legally your all good.

 

No, you can't "murder" the "baby" at any point.

 

Personally... I expect a woman to take just as much responsibility as me.

 

In many cases, abortion or adoption are examples of taking responsibility.

 

If your girlfriend accidentally got pregnant and was on medication that causes severe birth defects that doom the baby to a very short amount of time on earth spent in agonizing pain, what would you want her to do? Would it be irresponsible of her to terminate at the two month mark instead of bringing the baby to term so it can feel pain for a few weeks and die?

 

This happened to a friend of mine who thought she would never, ever, ever get an abortion. Yet in her situation, she felt the responsible thing to do was to abort.

 

If she wanted to abort my child... I'd do everything within my power to stop it.

 

Fact is that I have no fear of being a single father. I would be very good at it. But I'm scared to death of having my child in a situation I can't control.

 

The fact of the matter is that you can't control your child if it's in someone else's body. Whether you like it or not and whether I like it or not, it's a fact of life that a developing fetus is attached to and entirely dependent on the mother.

 

Unless you want to create an exception where one person can make medical decisions for another mentally competent person, telling them what they can and cannot do with their bodies. In which case, the father would also be justified in forcing an abortion where the mother did not want one.

[zengirl]

There are many men who deserve to be divorced but look at the divorce forum on this board to see that many are good husbands who had their wives screw around on them or she had a mid life crisis or whatever. If a woman did that to one man she will do it to me.

 

The divorce forum on this board isn't likely to reflect the general population accurately. But I agree that infidelity, regardless of gender, is unforgivable and horrible.

 

Not really. When a person has greater power over something, the flip side is greater responsibility. Women have vastly more power and options than men in this area, and thus should have vastly more responsibility.

 

Women don't have any more power or options before getting pregnant, and afterwards. . . yes, they have more control over their own body, but there are plenty of people who think you become a parent at pregnancy. And asking someone to do something they think is wrong, maybe even as wrong as murder (I may not, but I respect the choices and views of those that do, so long as they do not attempt to legalize it), is pretty disgusting.

 

So you are saying that it's Ok for women to dodge responsibility for sex... but not men? If you get pregnant... you can murder the baby at any point before it's born and legally your all good.

 

That attitude is just sick. Personally... I expect a woman to take just as much responsibility as me. If she wanted to abort my child... I'd do everything within my power to stop it.

 

Fact is that I have no fear of being a single father. I would be very good at it. But I'm scared to death of having my child in a situation I can't control.

 

I don't blame you for feeling this way, but I also think it's immoral to have a situation where someone is forced to be an incubator against their will. Someone else's body, someone else's choice. We should spend less time and money debating it -- the gender or moral issues -- and more time and money figuring out how to fix it, biologically, and bring a child to term outside the mother's body.

[elaina]

Men are responsible for birth control as well. I completely understand why a woman would not want a man with a bunch of baby mammas. I wish more women were as pragmatic and logical in their dating approach as many men are because it save them a world of heartbreak.

 

Very wise words

 

Average Joe and other men who seem to see women having children as bad relationship material,

 

Children are wonderful, and are the most important responsibilities anybody can ever have. They are humans just like you, why, you yourself was a child once!

 

Instead of blasting single women who have children and arguing about if a woman wants a baby or not, please remember how important children are, ok? They are the future, and EVERY child, in my opinion, needs a good man in his or her life to be a good role model. Sad to say, there are many children who do not have a good male role model in their life. For the men here who are good role models for children, THANKS!

 

Sadly, there is something wrong with some men today, who instead of thinking of children as the wonderful little people they are, and are willing to invest in the future, they instead just diss single moms and their kids. I don't have any kids but I really admire single moms who work so hard and who do all they can for their kids!!! Some of my friends are single moms, and they are no less deserving of love from a man who will love them and love and bless their kids than a woman without kids.

 

Single Moms, don't give up hope! There are good men out there who do understand and who do care for kids that aren't just their own! That's so important for a community anyways, for people to care for others, not just their own.

 

Like the African proverb, and Hilary Clinton says, "It takes a village to raise a child." When communities work together to help families, things go so much better than if a single mom and her kids are isolated, for example. For men who understand how communities work well, it should be no problem for them to understand how caring for another man's child as his own actually makes the world a better place, and that it is not responsibility that has to be shied away from. It's also an act of selflessness, to decide to take on responsibilities of precious, priceless little people who are not one's own, and "adopt" them as one's own.

Edited December 8, 2010 by elaina

[sally4sara]

The Big Brother/Big Sister programs are a great way to be there for a child without getting drawn into some unwanted relationship with the mom if you really can't respect her in her situation.

 

But I'm betting that the guys on here that don't just say it isn't the most ideal situation to date single moms, but instead talk trash on them are also the type who would see this program as nothing they'd bother with. After all, what would they stand to gain from participating - right? It wouldn't matter to them that they'd be getting some practice on how to be a good dad to their own children when and if they have them.

 

Many of the guys weighing in hatefully about this subject just don't care about anyone but themselves and what they can get.

 

http://www.bbbs.org/site/c.9iILI3NGKhK6F/b.5962335/k.BE16/Home.htm

 

For anyone interested in participating.

[theBrokenMuse]

 

Another ploy used by women to make men responsible for pregnancies is to argue that the resulting children are the men's children.

 

"He has 'fathered' a child."

 

"It is 'his' child."

 

But this is just fooling around with deceptive words.

 

Yes. He is related genetically to the child; but he is also related genetically to many other people, but, surely, this does not mean that he must be held "responsible" for them simply because of this. Legally, the child is 'his' - but only in the sense that the law burdens him with financial responsibility for it.

The reason a male is responsible for their own offspring and not a different kind of relative (like a parent or a sibling) is because they have willfully committed an action which has fertilized the egg that may or may not develop into a human being that they directly infused their own genetic material into who would not have otherwise existed without this occurrence. I have never before read such self-pitying and utterly inane ramblings of this caliber of crazy in my life.

Edited December 8, 2010 by theBrokenMuse

[sally4sara]

The shift from "it takes a village to raise a child" to "why are men blamed about unplanned children more than women?". Began with the creation of marriage and inheritance. That women were not the lawmakers or leaders of the time, I'm not sure how one can pin the blame of men being held responsible for unwanted children on women when women were eliminated from the subject entirely the moment the kid was born. Men owned their children AND their wives.

 

I don't believe women are held blameless on this subject while only men are blamed. The only place where I see this theme is on rigged up talk shows. But if some of you wonder where the theme came from, look no further than the attitudes that brought about marriage and inheritance in the first place. They are the resonating echo of this attitude.

 

Before marriage and inheritance, the children were a priority to everyone in the clan. No one knew who their father really was. Once that was discovered, men made laws about who held claim over the kids. And who held claim over the kids was MEN. They were the ones who decided who their kids married and what work they were apprenticed into. Not the moms. The women carried the child and gave birth, but after that, their claim on the child was usurped by the father.

 

Now? That women have a say in these matters and are the only ones with the power to decide to remain pregnant or not, we see men wanting to wash their hands of it entirely? You can't dictate everything about the kid from your precious seed being planted to every stage of its path after its born, so now its eff the kid and its mother too? I see, procreative jealousy it is then. You're mad that you can't give birth then?

 

Perhaps then going back to "it takes a village" is just the natural order of things returning? Shouldn't children matter whether they are a trophy of your personal virility or not?

[elaina]

The Big Brother/Big Sister programs are a great way to be there for a child

 

True! There are also many other ways, like coaching or mentoring and so forth to help children, and it's amazing the positive difference this makes in the lives of children!

 

without getting drawn into some unwanted relationship with the mom if you really can't respect her in her situation.

 

That's sad.

 

But I'm betting that the guys on here that don't just say it isn't the most ideal situation to date single moms, but instead talk trash on them are also the type who would see this program as nothing they'd bother with. After all, what would they stand to gain from participating - right?

 

I am curious if the trashtalkers on here do help with kids in some way (not just their own, if they have kids.) And not just giving away money either, though it's great and wonderful to donate to help, but giving time is more important, in my opinion, cause just giving money is very impersonal.

 

It wouldn't matter to them that they'd be getting some practice on how to be a good dad to their own children when and if they have them.

 

Sad but I think you're right.

 

Many of the guys weighing in hatefully about this subject just don't care about anyone but themselves and what they can get.

 

Agreed

 

Thankfully, there are some guys who do care about others, including single moms and their kids, who are just as important as happily married moms and their kids.

 

Can you imagine how much it would positively affect the USA if more men did not stereotype single moms and had no problem taking on the responsibility of being good, healthy stepdads to the kids? (There are some stepdads who are not good, but who are abusive in some way) But, if more men would rise up and care for people who were not their own, including caring for single moms and their kids enough to marry a single mom and "adopt" as his own the kids, can you imagine how that would positively affect the USA? Right now in the USA, the statistics of single moms is staggering, and you know why?

 

I think one reason of many is because some men just want to have their fun and don't want to work at a long healthy relationship (which takes a LOT of work and commitment and responsibility.) Yes sad to say this is the case with some women too, but I am a firm believer of men being strong, and that strength isn't to me just having lots of muscles and opening a can, but of being a good leader, and being a good role model for the young people. I believe women should be just as strong, and be good leaders and good role models as well, but men need to as well!!!

[elaina]

The reason a male is responsible for their own offspring and not a different kind of relative (like a parent or a sibling) is because they have willfully committed an action which has fertilized the egg that may or may not develop into a human being that they directly infused their own genetic material into who would not have otherwise existed without this occurrence. I have never before read such self-pitying and utterly inane ramblings of this caliber of crazy in my life.

 

Agreed, so true!

[26.2]

I haven't read everything in this thread, but overall it makes me very sad. I am a single mother of two little boys, 3 and 6. I am 30 and was married for nearly 6 years to a very verbally/emotionally abusive man. I tried to stay for a long time but extreme circumstances forced me to leave 2 years ago. I have dated multiple guys since my divorce and even without seeing this thread and what so many men think about single moms, I have felt like damaged goods. I even had a guy recently ask if I had my kids naturally and respond favorably to the fact that I have had 2 c-sections. That man will NEVER get into my pants.

 

On top of all of this, I just can't imagine any guy I've dated being able to hang with my kids. I feel like none of them could handle it. The one I'm in love with (who I recently ended things with) especially! I feel like my kids would kill him LOL! So then it starts to come down to this: will I have to settle on that "good man" who has the kind enough heart to accept me and my children. With things narrowed the way they are, I highly doubt that the "good" man will also be the one who I could actually fall in love with.

 

On the other hand, my ex who shares custody (fail on the part of a legal system which only recognizes abuse when there's a black eye) has been all too successful in reeling in doting women who fall for his sob story. My little boys are his puppy in the park. Women look at him with his two sons and between the pitiful picture he paints and their natural female urge to nurture, BAM! He's made his sale! I realize this sounds bitter, but it is absolute truth from experience. I can only pray for THE ONE... but I think he's a unicorn

[elaina]

I haven't read everything in this thread, but overall it makes me very sad. I am a single mother of two little boys, 3 and 6. I am 30 and was married for nearly 6 years to a very verbally/emotionally abusive man. I tried to stay for a long time but extreme circumstances forced me to leave 2 years ago. I have dated multiple guys since my divorce and even without seeing this thread and what so many men think about single moms, I have felt like damaged goods. I even had a guy recently ask if I had my kids naturally and respond favorably to the fact that I have had 2 c-sections. That man will NEVER get into my pants.

 

On top of all of this, I just can't imagine any guy I've dated being able to hang with my kids. I feel like none of them could handle it. The one I'm in love with (who I recently ended things with) especially! I feel like my kids would kill him LOL! So then it starts to come down to this: will I have to settle on that "good man" who has the kind enough heart to accept me and my children. With things narrowed the way they are, I highly doubt that the "good" man will also be the one who I could actually fall in love with.

 

On the other hand, my ex who shares custody (fail on the part of a legal system which only recognizes abuse when there's a black eye) has been all too successful in reeling in doting women who fall for his sob story. My little boys are his puppy in the park. Women look at him with his two sons and between the pitiful picture he paints and their natural female urge to nurture, BAM! He's made his sale! I realize this sounds bitter, but it is absolute truth from experience. I can only pray for THE ONE... but I think he's a unicorn

 

I don't think it sounds bitter. I wonder if sometimes men who are good, handsome, highly intelligent, great fun, you know, the whole package, if maybe some don't understand about single moms and their kids?

 

Thankfully, human understanding for the most part has "evolved" or whatever you want to call it, in many ways. For example, now many people understand that slavery is wrong, that racism is wrong, and so forth, but we still have a long way to go in some areas, and I think in this case with many men not wanting to accept a wonderful single mom and her kids, that this is an area that needs to be "evolved" more...?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Now where in the heck did you get that from?

No, you can't "murder" the "baby" at any point.

In many cases, abortion or adoption are examples of taking responsibility.

If your girlfriend accidentally got pregnant and was on medication that causes severe birth defects that doom the baby to a very short amount of time on earth spent in agonizing pain, what would you want her to do? Would it be irresponsible of her to terminate at the two month mark instead of bringing the baby to term so it can feel pain for a few weeks and die?

This happened to a friend of mine who thought she would never, ever, ever get an abortion. Yet in her situation, she felt the responsible thing to do was to abort.

 

Currently the ability to choose fatherhood begins and end with the choice to have sex. Potential mothers can make a choice long after sex without any input, consent, or acknowledgement given to the father.

 

Potential fathers should be given a 1 month grace period upon learning of his impending fatherhood to decided whether he wishes to accept that responsibility or not. It should also be illegal to have a baby and not inform the potential father.

 

In my opinion other people can abort/not abort as they choose. I just expect them to understand the gravity of their choices and not be so flippant as the girls in highschool were. I remember one in particular who had 3 abortions in highschool and was very nonchalant about it.

 

The fact of the matter is that you can't control your child if it's in someone else's body. Whether you like it or not and whether I like it or not, it's a fact of life that a developing fetus is attached to and entirely dependent on the mother.

 

If it's my child, I should have a legal right to decide it's future. Where it lives holds no bearing on whether I am actually the father or not. If I am the father... then I should be allowed to make choices.

 

Unless you want to create an exception where one person can make medical decisions for another mentally competent person, telling them what they can and cannot do with their bodies. In which case, the father would also be justified in forcing an abortion where the mother did not want one.

 

You can make that choice a life positive one way street. Where both parents have veto power over the action of putting the child to death. So if even one parent wants the child it cannot be legally killed.

 

However, if both parents find the child unwanted... it can be legally murdered.

 

Besides... I've never been convinced that 9 months of irritation and discomfort is worse than 18 years of financial responsibility.

 

I use my body to earn a living for myself and those around me. I should have the ability to say... my body my choice. Why should I be subjected to enslavement without my consent, while others are provided that choice?

 

I don't blame you for feeling this way, but I also think it's immoral to have a situation where someone is forced to be an incubator against their will. Someone else's body, someone else's choice. We should spend less time and money debating it -- the gender or moral issues -- and more time and money figuring out how to fix it, biologically, and bring a child to term outside the mother's body.

 

I'm not particularly in favor of "forced incubation" either... but when I look at the two choices one does seem to have heavier consequences.

 

That's always been my thought. That kind of technology would also save premature babies as well... and allow women currently infertile to have children.