Guys: thoughts on young(20's) single moms

[sally4sara]

If all women thought the way some women did men would have every reason to hump and dump. It goes both ways and while I am 100% against the mentality from some men on here radical feminism helped create it. You tell men we are nothing more than sperm donors and walking wallets and some will actually start to act like it. If more feminists fought for the rights of men who really are good fathers then I would get behind them on this issue. I grew up hearing my father be called a seed bag so don't be surprised when men think this way.

 

And "radical manism" is what caused radical feminism. How about we just call a bad apple a bad apple and don't bother pulling down their pants to find out what gender that apple belongs to? We all get sick when we take a bite either way.

[Woggle]

And "radical manism" is what caused radical feminism. How about we just call a bad apple a bad apple and don't bother pulling down their pants to find out what gender that apple belongs to? We all get sick when we take a bite either way.

 

I wish gender didn't matter and that the gender war would end but that is not the world we live in. I am honestly sick and tired of being bitter.

[112233]

You're talking to someone who's never been pregnant or given birth.

 

Ah, well if you continue in this way, and contribute nothing to the survival of any relatives, you are also a "biological failure", but as noted elsewhere, that doesn't mean you are a bad person, just that your genes are not propagating effectively.

[sally4sara]

Ah, well if you continue in this way, and contribute nothing to the survival of any relatives, you are also a "biological failure", but as noted elsewhere, that doesn't mean you are a bad person, just that your genes are not propagating effectively.

 

What you contribute to your community is the measure of your success whether you brought children into the world or not. I've met a good many of parents that contributed nothing but more mouths and heartache. If any of their children went on to greatness, that greatness belongs to the child and not their parents.

[sally4sara]

I wish gender didn't matter and that the gender war would end but that is not the world we live in. I am honestly sick and tired of being bitter.

 

It only matters when you let it.

 

I post in the same style no matter if I'm speaking to a man or a woman. If you care to notice, I call out women who are behaving poorly when I come across their posts.

 

I don't see you calling out men in this way. You believe it would be traitorous because you're so caught up in this gender war you keep mentioning. If you want it to stop, then you have to stop yourself from fighting it.

[112233]

What you contribute to your community is the measure of your success whether you brought children into the world or not. I've met a good many of parents that contributed nothing but more mouths and heartache. If any of their children went on to greatness, that greatness belongs to the child and not their parents.

 

Again, biologically, the genes only care about making the machines that carry them effective at making more machines to carry them forward. This does not make the people involved great or small, it just means the genes succeeded or failed.

[Woggle]

It only matters when you let it.

 

I post in the same style no matter if I'm speaking to a man or a woman. If you care to notice, I call out women who are behaving poorly when I come across their posts.

 

I don't see you calling out men in this way. You believe it would be traitorous because you're so caught up in this gender war you keep mentioning. If you want it to stop, then you have to stop yourself from fighting it.

 

I admit that I do stick up for the brotherhood. While you might not do it there are women who stick up for the sisterhood.

[sally4sara]

I admit that I do stick up for the brotherhood. While you might not do it there are women who stick up for the sisterhood.

 

I don't recognize any whicheverhood. I only recognize humanhood.

[LadyD06]

On paper I'm cool with single mom's.

 

The biggest issue is how to handle the kid. Being a step father is permanently awkward and a huge disadvantage. It takes time and resources away from your own biological children.

 

It's inherently just a bad situation.

 

but can it be done? in your opinion..

[112233]

On paper I'm cool with single mom's.

 

The biggest issue is how to handle the kid. Being a step father is permanently awkward and a huge disadvantage. It takes time and resources away from your own biological children.

 

It's inherently just a bad situation.

 

Sort of. There is a minus, they are going to spend resources on a child that's not yours, but if you insist on playing the gene game you have to also recognize the pluses, and they exist.

 

• She is known to (almost surely) be fertile and able to bear kids
• She has managed to keep one alive already
• She is not showing a pattern of abandoning kids if she is abandoned. This is important if you are going to try for a "hump and dump" OR if you want a bigger brood and are concerned about what happens if you are somehow eliminated from the scene.
• The existing child might have a lot of resources already expended on it and therefore might (1) not consume many more and might (2) help the mother in the future, thus it's not clear the child is a long term liability

 

Of course if you just want non-reproductive sex, this is all moot.

 

All this is written from the gene standpoint, not as a person with a conscience.

[AverageJoe]

 

Average Joe and other men who seem to see women having children as bad relationship material,

 

 

 

Bad relationship material for me (not looking for a relationship anyway). There are plenty of guys out there with so little options they will date a single mom. Live it up!

 

I have nothing at all against children, they are great. One of the reasons they are great is because they are other peoples children. I also dont have to pay for them, another reason I have no desire to date single moms.

[Woggle]

I don't recognize any whicheverhood. I only recognize humanhood.

 

Sometimes I try to be this way but when I see subtle misandry I jump into defense mode and want to defend my gender. It is also the subtle stuff that bothers me so much because it is easy for a woman to say she isn't bashing or being anti-male but when you read in between the lines it is obvious.

 

I am very good at picking up on this. I am not saying you are like this but there is so much under the surface stuff while the men are just blatant about their hatred for the opposite sex. Neither is right but with the misogynists a woman knows where she stands while men really have to have a sixth to see if a woman hates him because of his gender. When I pick on this stuff I want to stick for men.

[sally4sara]

Sometimes I try to be this way but when I see subtle misandry I jump into defense mode and want to defend my gender. It is also the subtle stuff that bothers me so much because it is easy for a woman to say she isn't bashing or being anti-male but when you read in between the lines it is obvious.

 

I am very good at picking up on this. I am not saying you are like this but there is so much under the surface stuff while the men are just blatant about their hatred for the opposite sex. Neither is right but with the misogynists a woman knows where she stands while men really have to have a sixth to see if a woman hates him because of his gender. When I pick on this stuff I want to stick for men.

 

I don't agree Woggle. Quite often in relationships I experienced things that had me feeling undercut for my gender that the guy insisted was not about having less respect for me or women in general.

Examples:

 

If an argument happens and things begin to get heated, I've always felt leaving to cool down was the best policy. But I've had guys block me physically from leaving because they worried I was "too emotional" to properly drive a car. Yet when I tried the same tactic if they decided to leave, I was being ridiculous in thinking they might be impaired for driving while upset.

I've had men find the idea of me buying them dinner to be a knock to their masculinity. But I am supposed to be flattered if they buy mine.

Thinking that I would not be able to figure it out for myself if a guy was only pretending to be my friend. Thinking a guy could manipulate me to do something against my values simply by pretending to be my friend.

 

These situations showed very subtle misogynism. These are very common situations women deal with.

 

So is your believe that women never experience subtle disrespect but men do.

[Woggle]

Maybe you are right. It is much easier to pick up on things when you are the target.

[Joe Normal]

Not too keen, because if it works well, she will not have as much time free for me, there will be another guy hanging around the scene, and if I ever wanna marry her and have a family, then some other dude & his kid with you is in the picture.

 

I used to be open-minded with single mothers, but after dating 3, I would say "never again". They were all pretty cool people but single motherhood always put a crimp on things, time after time.

 

I'd say that's how most guys see it. Other things being equal, a woman without kids is a more attractive mate. The exception is at older age, no one dates a 40+ year old woman to have kids with her, and the kids are usually grown and left or about to leave the home, so it's no big deal. So, I'd date a 40 year old whose kids had left home, but not a 20something whose kids are still toddlers requiring lots of time.

[zengirl]

Sometimes I try to be this way but when I see subtle misandry I jump into defense mode and want to defend my gender. It is also the subtle stuff that bothers me so much because it is easy for a woman to say she isn't bashing or being anti-male but when you read in between the lines it is obvious.

 

I am very good at picking up on this. I am not saying you are like this but there is so much under the surface stuff while the men are just blatant about their hatred for the opposite sex. Neither is right but with the misogynists a woman knows where she stands while men really have to have a sixth to see if a woman hates him because of his gender. When I pick on this stuff I want to stick for men.

 

I think you're very good at imagining it where it isn't. I understand why, based on some of the things you've said you've heard all your life. I'm not saying there's no misandry in the world, but a lot less than you seem to see.

[Woggle]

I think you're very good at imagining it where it isn't. I understand why, based on some of the things you've said you've heard all your life. I'm not saying there's no misandry in the world, but a lot less than you seem to see.

 

Maybe I am a bit paranoid but I know it when I see it. I don't hate women but when my gender is attacked I will defend my brothers.

[theBrokenMuse]

Maybe I am a bit paranoid but I know it when I see it. I don't hate women but when my gender is attacked I will defend my brothers.

Here is a good exercise for you to try out. When reading postings try and imagine that all the posting are done by those of the same gender then feel free to defend whatever argument you think holds water or counter whatever argument you think sounds outlandish. It might help you gain a bit more objectivity in time. Just some friendly advice but as always, just take what's helpful (if anything) from it and chuck the rest.

[Green]

We are most dependant on the family. The family is the most important foundation. And we are called to recognize how critical every father is to that foundation. There are teachers, there are coaches, there are mentors, and there are role models. They are examples of success, and they are men who constantly push us towards that success. But if we're honest with ourselves, we'll admit that too many fathers are also missing. Too many fathers are MIA. Too many fahters are AWOL. Missing from too many lives and too many homes. They have abandoned their responsibilities. They are acting like boys instead of men.

 

-- Barack Obama

 

 

Out of all the lies we choose to believe, the most scandalous lie of all is the one Obama repeated. A lie repeated in every ghetto, suburb, every street corner. A lie so transparently false that it makes the truth itself redundant. That's right. This lie puts the truth out of business. Because what this really reveals is that nobody, not even those who are sworn to defend truth could care less about the truth. If not, how else (assuming you are a fair-minded and reasonably intelligent person) explain the glaring admission from Mr. Obama's speech on the impact of caused fatherlessness? Because like everyone else who claims to be addressing the problem of fatherlessness, he layed the blame entirely on fathers. This is a problem in which, by necessity, demands the participation of a man and woman is presented as a problem caused only by men.

 

Later on in that speech, he applauded single mothers for their "heroism." And heroism here amounts to spreading their legs, getting pregnant, becoming single mothers, and maintaining their burden on taxpayers money, for which few of them ever lifted anything other than their asses to earn.

 

I'm going to take this opportunity to force into your consciousness the big elephant sitting in the middle of the room that you would rather ignore than rather debate on the cause of fatherlessness. That elephant is mothers themselves.

 

There's a longstanding conspiracy of silence to consume the role that women blame fatherlessness. This conspiracy has recruited everyone, minus a tiny group of men like me into its ranks. In the world of uncertainty in where everything is up for question, the ONE thing that goes unquestioned is the notion that men are solely to blame for fatherlessness. Everyone has agreed that men are responsible for fatherlessness. Why? Because men have sex with women, and men make women pregnant.

 

The obvious influence being that women are sexually passive victims of irresponsible men who are left holding the baby. But don't you find it odd and illogical that the assault on fatherlessness only begins at the point where the child exists and the father is now absent? Why don't they ever attack fatherlessness much earlier in the process? Why do the likes of Obama never attack the cause of fahterlessness at its root: the mother?

 

In his speech, Obama links a number of social pathologies to fatherlessness, being among them is poverty. He is admitting that women are having children and bringing them into dire circumstances. Do women, therefore, not have the responsibility to defer childbirth until they are in a better position to support children? What about that responsibility, Mr. Obama?

 

Women are far from the sexually passive victims they portray to be by their own victim-filled accounts and by social commentators of all stripes.

 

On the contrary, women are the ones who declared their sexual liberations from 40 years ago. Those claims of sexual freedoms came from the backs of near-abortion rights and the contraceptive pill, both of which give women absolute control over the timing of childbirth.

 

So in light of those simple truths, it really staggers the mind on how people really persist on blaming fatherlessness on the people least able to control it: men. It seems that sexual liberation means sex without consequence for women, while for men it means prosecution and punishment.

 

Mothers role in fatherlessness is not confined to before pregnancy and childbirth. We can make the case against mothers any way we like and we will still find that mothers are the single cause of absentee fathers. There's probably respected research out there (not Oprah, Tyra Banks or Cosmopolitan magazine) that can show that a mother's attitude towards fatherlessness is the key of determining whether that father stays involved in their children's lives. If the mother actively, and constructively, encourages father involvement, the more likely he is to stay in that child's life. If she is indifferent or hostile towards the father, then she will abuse her position as custodial parent to disrupt the father-child relationship. This goes on until the father simply stops trying. This practice is so common, it even has it's own name. It's called parental alienation. This is where the mother exploits the legally embedded presumption that fathers are dangerous. This goes all the way to the court hearings over access disputes. It is now standard practice for lawyers to advise mothers to claim to be in fear of the father so that it automatically invokes a restraining order courtesy of Violence Against Women laws.

 

The events of this is to undermine the father's case for custody or access in later proceedings. It does not matter if the accusations are unsubstantiated or later proven false.

 

What about fatherlessness created by divorce? Who initiates about eighty percent of divorces? Wives. Now, I know there will be those who'll try to justify this by using the good 'ol "abuse" excuse. But the truth is abuse or cruelty is cited in only six percent of divorces. So I will be ignoring the comments from those who lays this red herring. Infidelity is cited by both sexes in roughly equal numbers. So those women who love a cheating dog story won't find an avenue to blame men in playing victim on that one either.

 

The real reason women divorce is the reason most people do anything: because they can. They walk away with the children, and most of whatever assets were accumulated during the marriage, also taking a huge chunk of their ex-husband's future earnings and pensions.

 

The reason so many women have children out of wedlock is exactly the same: because they can. This is all courtesy of the package welfare benefits entitlements activated by pregnancy and childbirth.

 

There never has been a movement of men claiming that children don't need their fathers. Have you noticed that? The most vocal voices diminishing the value or need of fathers has been that of mothers, Oprah, Tyra, and a host of other rabidly, anti-male forces that have dominated their brains on family life.

 

A forty percent out of wedlock birthrate, and an eighty percent wife-initiated divorce rate is not the result of irresponsible fathers abandoning their families. It is not the results of some women making bad choices in men. It is a mass movement, a matriarchal takeover. A device to displace fatherhood and break the supremacy of patriarchal power. Blaming the poor outcomes of fatherless children on absent fathers is as absurd as blaming the police for a crime that has occurred in their absence. How can you blame someone who was not there for the outcomes of the actions of someone who was there? Why would you walk away from the scene of the crime with all the proof needed to show your innocence?

 

Fatherlessness is the cause of most of the social pathologies we see in our communities today. But absent fathers are not to blame for that. The blame lies with mothers who deliberately create fatherless homes by welfare or by divorce.

 

The father's position in the family has been weakened to the point where fathers can only look in from the outside while their children become tools of a welfare system that people like Mr. Obama wants to expand and empower themselves to encroach further into people's private lives.

 

There are no voices seeking justice. Only father-blaming interest who want to perpetuate the myth of the deadbeat dad because they profit off the misery and dysfunction that fatherlessness causes.

 

Well, I give notice. And more and more of us are waking up to this corruption.

 

Great post, seriously I'm tired of living in a society that aplauds women for getting pregnant with deadbeat men and then trying to pass the buck off to everyone else.

 

I think you're very good at imagining it where it isn't. I understand why, based on some of the things you've said you've heard all your life. I'm not saying there's no misandry in the world, but a lot less than you seem to see.

 

He rarely imagines anything. Woggle just seems extra scared of the truth. THE TRUTH IS the SINGLE MOTHER is a BS double standard. Women are aplauded for getting pregnant OUT OF WEDLOCK with DEAD BEAT men and raising a child. I refuse to absolve them for their poor choices. In fact how many men are there who end up paying VAST sums of money to women just for having a child. Its a very one sided street. Men are cast as the villians and women as the heroes. Seriously take a look at all these people having kids who shouldn't be. I see a single mother and it literaly digusts me.

[theBrokenMuse]

I see a single mother and it literaly digusts me.

Everything seems to disgust you outside the realm of perfection.

[sally4sara]

I read overly judgmental people's posts with every other word spelled wrong and it DISGUSTS me.

[Green]

Everything seems to disgust you outside the realm of perfection.

 

Oh please, how hard is it not to actively seek out situations that will make them single mothers. We have shows like Teen mom and 16 and pregnant glorifying teen unwed pregnancy. Then you have an entire generation of women perfectly willing and ready to be a single mother or get into a situation that will likely result in being a single mother.

 

I read overly judgmental people's posts with every other word spelled wrong and it DISGUSTS me.

 

Looks like you got the point. Tell me why again do you think single mothers are heroes or great people?

[sally4sara]

Oh please, how hard is it not to actively seek out situations that will make them single mothers. We have shows like Teen mom and 16 and pregnant glorifying teen unwed pregnancy. Then you have an entire generation of women perfectly willing and ready to be a single mother or get into a situation that will likely result in being a single mother.

 

 

 

Looks like you got the point. Tell me why again do you think single mothers are heroes or great people?

 

Good parents are heroes, alone OR in pairs. And until I walk in the shoes of another, I don't flatter myself for simply noticing their unfortunate circumstances or pretend I'd do them one better.

 

YOU raise no one and nothing, not even a good point.

[theBrokenMuse]

Oh please, how hard is it not to actively seek out situations that will make them single mothers.

Some people make poor life choices, sure but what does that have to do with the growing list of types of people who disgust you and their commonalities? All I was commenting on was that common link I noticed between them. Nothing more, nothing less.

[112233]

Good parents are heroes ...

 

Well that's a bit of hyperbole but I would say that there's certainly nothing wrong with parenthood as such. On the other hand people who bring kids into the world they are unable to provide and care for, and who then expect public assistance or expect that people not the parent of the child should accept responsibility are exhibiting sub-human behavior in my opinion.