Single Mothers In America: Entitled Attitudes?

[sally4sara]

You must be referencing another poster. I didn't even imply any of the above, nor do I believe it to be accurate.

 

What I was trying to say is that there are more choices available than just good and bad. Sometimes people take the middle road.

 

When I look at potential relationships... I tend to evaluate personality traits and risk factors. If I deem the risk factors outweigh the personality traits... I either won't pursue further or will dump. Otherwise full steam ahead. Already having a child is not the greatest risk factor out there.

 

I know you didn't UF. But when you made this thread, you sited the input of women from that thread not agreeing with what was being said within it as showing we ARE acting entitled as single mothers from America. You didn't say word one about what it was we were protesting about. Just that we protested and didn't agree and that made us entitled.

 

Expecting to live in a black and white world when passing judgments will always result in pissing off a lot of gray people.

[donnamaybe]

Just because you think something is true... doesn't mean that it is. When regarding marriage splits... the actual truth typically lies between both perceptions.

Then perhaps you should try posting from that standpoint for a change.

[donnamaybe]

Expecting to live in a black and white world when passing judgments will always result in pissing off a lot of gray people.

Yup. What I said - just in a different way.

[hydorclops]

Every time UF writes about American women all I get is a pretense of worldliness. If it's sincere then it's puerile. It sounds intellectual but can be destroyed by very little thought.

 

UF can't know American women. He can't know non-American women. This is not just epistemology, it's practical. America is too big to know. There is no American culture, there are many, confusingly mingled.

 

UF why not just stop theorizing and take people as you find them one at a time.

[carhill]

In my ~20 years of experience with the dynamic, I didn't perceive entitlement so much as struggle and frustration. Perhaps it was those aspects which ultimately caused the situations to end. Three of the four ladies I've been intimate with (meaning had LTR's with sex) were single mothers. I was single, childless, had a successful business and was quite settled in my life. The acrimony with ex'es and the feelings of being overwhelmed and their expression, over time, wore me down. Empathy and care could only go so far. I wanted an intimate relationship to be a positive experience and found, comparatively, being alone to be far more positive than those particular dynamics. Perhaps it was the era (80's and 90's) but those were my experiences. There was one lady, pictured in my albums here with her granddaughter, with whom I did feel positive and balanced, and erred in how I handled that, moving on to date my now exW.

 

Most of the single women in my age group are mothers of adult children and grandmothers, so the dynamics are completely different now than when younger. However, since being separated and now divorced, I have dated a couple single mothers and, if/when I get a sense of acrimony with the ex/frustration/struggle, I am reminded of the past and politely excuse myself. Life's too short and I've had enough pain for awhile. If they felt 'entitled' to anything, I didn't really notice. One datapoint

[Untouchable_Fire]

For the record, I believe that the most entitled population in the known world is white American males, and that y'all are just butt hurt that some other groups are grabbing some of the gimmes that used to be only reserved for you.

 

No, I haven't. I'm quite well versed in the difference.

 

It's very obvious that you are confused.

 

My great great grandfather risked his life and lost his left arm so that black people could be free. My grandpa fought to liberate Europe from German occupation and end the Holocaust. My cousin and my best friend are in Iraq as we speak risking their lives to try and help them build a democracy so that country can have a future free of petty dictators. Every woman that casts a vote does so because in 1920 so called "entitled white males" felt it wasn't right to deny women the vote. I was raised to not tolerate blatant injustice regardless of what race, creed, gender, or orientation of the person being persecuted. I'd fight for your rights just as quickly as mine.

 

You made what is a very racist statement. So either back it up or take it back.

[theBrokenMuse]

It's very obvious that you are confused.

 

My great great grandfather risked his life and lost his left arm so that black people could be free. My grandpa fought to liberate Europe from German occupation and end the Holocaust. My cousin and my best friend are in Iraq as we speak risking their lives to try and help them build a democracy so that country can have a future free of petty dictators. Every woman that casts a vote does so because in 1920 so called "entitled white males" felt it wasn't right to deny women the vote. I was raised to not tolerate blatant injustice regardless of what race, creed, gender, or orientation of the person being persecuted. I'd fight for your rights just as quickly as mine.

 

You made what is a very racist statement. So either back it up or take it back.

Are you honestly suggesting that there was not a time in which White Males were the dominant power here in this country?

[112233]

Are you honestly suggesting that there was not a time in which White Males were the dominant power here in this country?

 

Are you honestly suggesting she was talking about some indeterminate point in the past and not the present? Are you honestly suggesting the fact of being dominant is synonymous with feeling entitled?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Then perhaps you should try posting from that standpoint for a change.

 

To what end? So that people will like me? I don't need that.

 

You can argue and disagree... that's fine. This thread isn't really for you.

 

Every time UF writes about American women all I get is a pretense of worldliness. If it's sincere then it's puerile. It sounds intellectual but can be destroyed by very little thought.

UF can't know American women. He can't know non-American women. This is not just epistemology, it's practical. America is too big to know. There is no American culture, there are many, confusingly mingled.

UF why not just stop theorizing and take people as you find them one at a time.

 

I agree that most people respond to my posts with very little thought... yet there is always a core truth that can't be crushed.

 

You think I can't separate a person from a stereotype in real life? Reload your gun and take another shot at me... because that one missed the barn.

 

While America does have subcultures as does every country.... All exist under one giant umbrella culture.

[donnamaybe]

It's very obvious that you are confused.

 

My great great grandfather risked his life and lost his left arm so that black people could be free. My grandpa fought to liberate Europe from German occupation and end the Holocaust. My cousin and my best friend are in Iraq as we speak risking their lives to try and help them build a democracy so that country can have a future free of petty dictators. Every woman that casts a vote does so because in 1920 so called "entitled white males" felt it wasn't right to deny women the vote. I was raised to not tolerate blatant injustice regardless of what race, creed, gender, or orientation of the person being persecuted. I'd fight for your rights just as quickly as mine.

 

You made what is a very racist statement. So either back it up or take it back.

Oh, please! You persecute women with nearly EVERY thread you start.

 

You're backin' it up for her just fine all by your lonesome.

[sally4sara]

UF, I want to share with you a quote by the author Raymond Chandler my husband loves and tries to mirror. While I don't believe it is only something a man can aspire to I believe that it is something we can all keep in mind when judging others. Too often, the awful outcome of trusting the wrong person is used to judge the wronged party.

 

“Down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid. He is the hero, he is everything. He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man. He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor, by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it. He must be the best man in his world and a good enough man for any world.”

 

 

And yet so few of us go untarnished when we are guilty of extending trust in the wrong person, no matter how honorable our motivation in doing so or how honorably we handled the result of that misplaced trust. Instead, we often get treated like the sickly born chick and pecked to death by our peers. You were wrong you were wrong and you will always be wrong.

 

There is no dishonor in trusting no matter the outcome. The dishonor always goes to the person who broke your trust. Keep that in mind when judging single mothers; many of them are guilty of little more than trusting the wrong person. Even if you believe this to be some character flaw they have, they can still go on to be a hero in the eyes of someone else.

[donnamaybe]

yet there is always a core truth that can't be crushed.

Geez. Arrogant much?

 

I heard someone say something once that sounded pretty much the same. It went like this: "If I said it, it must be true."

[Untouchable_Fire]

Are you honestly suggesting that there was not a time in which White Males were the dominant power here in this country?

 

Are you honestly suggesting that makes racist comments acceptable?

[theBrokenMuse]

Are you honestly suggesting she was talking about some indeterminate point in the past and not the present?

First of all, I was responding to HIS response which seemed to be nothing more than an emotional appeal about his lineage and their political and social endeavors. This was obviously in regards to the past so talking about the present would have been pointless as I was trying to further understand how he was making what appeared to be the jump from "my great great grandpa got hurt defending black people" to therefore there was no past white male dominance of power.

 

Are you honestly suggesting the fact of being dominant is synonymous with feeling entitled?

Are you suggesting that changes to power dynamics in social structures occur in a vacuum and have no residual affects?

[theBrokenMuse]

Are you honestly suggesting that makes racist comments acceptable?

So, I take it you aren't going to answer the question then.

[112233]

Are you suggesting that changes to power dynamics in social structures occur in a vacuum and have no residual affects?

 

What do residual effects in general have to do with feeling entitled? Feeling entitled is a defect that should be corrected and it's usually found in people who seek redress for wrongs so far past they should have been forgotten.

[Mme. Chaucer]

It's very obvious that you are confused.

 

Well, to use one of your own tried and true chestnuts:

 

There will always be a gap between the truth and what is perceived.

... in this case, I'm afraid you are the one demonstrating the difference between truth and YOUR perception.

 

 

 

 

 

You made what is a very racist statement. So either back it up or take it back.

 

Haha. Because I said that WHITE American males are the most entitled group of people in the world? I suppose if I left "WHITE" out of my sentence, you'd have no gripe. After all, you spout off about the many irrefutable (in your own evidently very sheltered experience) traits of American women. Negative generalizations about gender are A-OK, but include race and it's bad? I don't think it works that way.

 

I stand by my statement, anyway. That does not take away from any of the accomplishments, sacrifices, contributions to our society made by white males. Of course I acknowledge that our society, government, etc. here in the US was, by and large, formed by white males. My father was an extremely accomplished, educated, etc. white male and my life is full of others. I am in love with a white American male.

 

Anyway, now, lots of men believe that they are entitled to some kind of special place in society simply due to the fact that they are white males. They're feeling disenfranchised.

 

In fact, I attribute the plethora of almost identical posts (against women mostly) by white American men here on LS to the anger caused by thwarted entitlement.

 

I am capable of backing this up with lots of examples, but it would be a waste of time. You can learn all about it by spending a few hours on your computer learning about something that DOES NOT back up your bigoted preconceived notions, for a change, if you're interested.

 

I have a horse to ride!

[Untouchable_Fire]

First of all, I was responding to HIS response which seemed to be nothing more than an emotional appeal about his lineage and their political and social endeavors. This was obviously in regards to the past so talking about the present would have been pointless as I was trying to further understand how he was making what appeared to be the jump from "my great great grandpa got hurt defending black people" to therefore there was no past white male dominance of power.

Are you suggesting that changes to power dynamics in social structures occur in a vacuum and have no residual affects?

 

I'm saying that the freedom we all enjoy today was given to us by "entitled white men".

 

So, what am I supposedly entitled to? Racist comments?

 

How about getting jumped outside a bar because of my skin color? Or struggling for college scholarships because my skin color means I'm supposed to have the money to pay it out of pocket? How about discrimination lawsuits because I fired 2 minority employees I caught doing drugs at work?

 

My life hasn't been rough, and overall I'm really happy with it. That doesn't mean I have not faced adversity or discrimination.

 

So, I take it you aren't going to answer the question then.

 

Yes at one point white males where the dominant power in a large chunk of the world. Actually... I think we can include white females in this category as well.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Haha. Because I said that WHITE American males are the most entitled group of people in the world? I suppose if I left "WHITE" out of my sentence, you'd have no gripe. After all, you spout off about the many irrefutable (in your own evidently very sheltered experience) traits of American women. Negative generalizations about gender are A-OK, but include race and it's bad? I don't think it works that way.

I stand by my statement, anyway. That does not take away from any of the accomplishments, sacrifices, contributions to our society made by white males. Of course I acknowledge that our society, government, etc. here in the US was, by and large, formed by white males. My father was an extremely accomplished, educated, etc. white male and my life is full of others. I am in love with a white American male.

Anyway, now, lots of men believe that they are entitled to some kind of special place in society simply due to the fact that they are white males. They're feeling disenfranchised.

In fact, I attribute the plethora of almost identical posts (against women mostly) by white American men here on LS to the anger caused by thwarted entitlement.

I am capable of backing this up with lots of examples, but it would be a waste of time. You can learn all about it by spending a few hours on your computer learning about something that DOES NOT back up your bigoted preconceived notions, for a change, if you're interested.

I have a horse to ride!

 

Yes. In fact if you had said that American men are overall entitled... I would absolutely agree with you. American CULTURE tends to generate entitlement feelings. I believe this to be true.

 

Many of the poster's you are referencing come from other ethnic backgrounds. I know at least 1 who is black, 2 who are indian, and 1 who is asian...

 

and.... I have work to do.

[Fionah]

Yes. In fact if you had said that American men are overall entitled... I would absolutely agree with you. American CULTURE tends to generate entitlement feelings. I believe this to be true.

 

 

American culture generates entitlement? why do you say that?

 

I'm an American and I don't feel I'm "entitled" to anything. Talk about generalizing.

[jimbo]

Not all single mom's. just apparently the one's I meet through my kid's school.

 

 

Their standards are Rich with no kids.

But, she will let a decent guy waste time & energy on her, bring them around the family & talk to him like she wants a relationship with him, while she is banging the bad-boy secretly. Usually an ex.

 

I've been running into these women more & more at my age.

They all have the same mannerisms, the same dating history, considered black sheep of the family ect.

 

They can't stop talking about an ex their "friends with". seriously?

Buh-Bye.

 

So then how do you trust these sluts?

[jimbo]

See? This is a fine example of what I'm talking about. I think there's a way to have this discussion without degrading people.

 

"What makes you such a prize" "Baggage" "Someone else's problems" "Brats"

 

This is exactly the type of thing that makes people feel defensive. And again, why aren't single moms entitled to seek out a mate that's right for them? I'm so confused by the suggestion that they aren't entitled to a preference.

 

The reverse can be said for the single mother who made the poor choice of having the kid at such a young age with a guy who did not give jack about her. There are obvious exceptions, such as a husband who past away, but aside from that, really none. The single mother decided to sleep with the bad boy. If she was abused, she did it to herself by allowing this guy not only in her life, but to have a child and beat her.

 

Seriously. What does a single mother bring to the table aside from trouble? You are not comparing apples to apples here. More like oranges to bananas. And yes, since you've already produced a child, sorry to say, you are used goods. Not valueless though. Just not on the same level as a woman with no kids, no emotional issues, no financial issues and has a career. A single mother does not hold a candle to a woman who does not have these problems, baggage, issues or whatever you want to call it.

 

I also think, it is not good for any man or woman to get involved with a single mother or father just to fool around.

[AlektraClementine]

The reverse can be said for the single mother who made the poor choice of having the kid at such a young age with a guy who did not give jack about her. There are obvious exceptions, such as a husband who past away, but aside from that, really none. The single mother decided to sleep with the bad boy. If she was abused, she did it to herself by allowing this guy not only in her life, but to have a child and beat her.

 

Seriously. What does a single mother bring to the table aside from trouble? You are not comparing apples to apples here. More like oranges to bananas. And yes, since you've already produced a child, sorry to say, you are used goods. Not valueless though. Just not on the same level as a woman with no kids, no emotional issues, no financial issues and has a career. A single mother does not hold a candle to a woman who does not have these problems, baggage, issues or whatever you want to call it.

 

I also think, it is not good for any man or woman to get involved with a single mother or father just to fool around.

 

Your inflammatory language reeks of emotional issues. How old is your child?

[TheBigQuestion]

 

 

Anyway, now, lots of men believe that they are entitled to some kind of special place in society simply due to the fact that they are white males. They're feeling disenfranchised.

 

In fact, I attribute the plethora of almost identical posts (against women mostly) by white American men here on LS to the anger caused by thwarted entitlement.

 

I am capable of backing this up with lots of examples, but it would be a waste of time. You can learn all about it by spending a few hours on your computer learning about something that DOES NOT back up your bigoted preconceived notions, for a change, if you're interested.

 

I have a horse to ride!

 

Really now? I could have sworn that a lot of the posters you are referencing are not white at all.

 

A special place in society just because they're white and male? Really?? I'm in my early 20s and I basically spent my entire high school and college career being told, if not explicitly then implicitly, that white males should not have any special privileges at all, and that they are the reason why minorities are oppressed, and that because of this they ought to be tempered to some degree. Maybe some white men feel "Entitled" because they're sick of consistently being made out to be the bad guy, consistently being crucified for the sins of their fathers (or in my case, not even my fathers, because I'm a first generation immigrant). The men who actually buy into this politically motivated brainwashing in education are not entitled at all. If anything, they are almost always apologetic or regretful to some degree for being white males. If you went to college and grew up in a blue state and are under the age of 30, that's basically the mentality that the vast majority of males have. Being both white and hispanic and working class has actually made me resent this portrayal of white people more than if I was just white.

[Woggle]

Talk to most black, hispanic, or whatever males and they have the same drama that any other men have. One of the dirty secrets is that black males have been hurt horribly because of feminist attitudes. Fatherlessness has sure done poor black communities a wonder of good.