Single Mothers In America: Entitled Attitudes?

[112233]

.... I basically spent my entire high school and college career being told, if not explicitly then implicitly, that white males should not have any special privileges at all, and that they are the reason why minorities are oppressed, and that because of this they ought to be tempered to some degree.

 

Yeah, everything is my fault and I should shut up and take it in the a**. Basically.

[Untouchable_Fire]

UF, I want to share with you a quote by the author Raymond Chandler my husband loves and tries to mirror. While I don't believe it is only something a man can aspire to I believe that it is something we can all keep in mind when judging others. Too often, the awful outcome of trusting the wrong person is used to judge the wronged party.

“Down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid. He is the hero, he is everything. He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man. He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor, by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it. He must be the best man in his world and a good enough man for any world.”

And yet so few of us go untarnished when we are guilty of extending trust in the wrong person, no matter how honorable our motivation in doing so or how honorably we handled the result of that misplaced trust. Instead, we often get treated like the sickly born chick and pecked to death by our peers. You were wrong you were wrong and you will always be wrong.

There is no dishonor in trusting no matter the outcome. The dishonor always goes to the person who broke your trust. Keep that in mind when judging single mothers; many of them are guilty of little more than trusting the wrong person. Even if you believe this to be some character flaw they have, they can still go on to be a hero in the eyes of someone else.

 

That is a great quote... from a great author.

 

I am going to have to agree with you here. No buts, no howevers, no althoughs, or yets...

 

I can't hold someone responsible for trusting the wrong person. In many ways I hold myself accountable for trusting those that hurt me most. You are correct that single mothers should not be blamed for extending trust... no matter who that trust was given to.

 

I wish there was a way I didn't have to trust anyone.

[sumdude]

That is a great quote... from a great author.

 

I am going to have to agree with you here. No buts, no howevers, no althoughs, or yets...

 

I can't hold someone responsible for trusting the wrong person. In many ways I hold myself accountable for trusting those that hurt me most. You are correct that single mothers should not be blamed for extending trust... no matter who that trust was given to.

 

I wish there was a way I didn't have to trust anyone.

 

There is and it's a shi**y path to walk. Did it for a year or two after my ex cheated, lied and left. You can walk around PO'd at the world and you know what you get back from it? Exactly what you put into it. The world will throw it right back at you.

[theBrokenMuse]

What do residual effects in general have to do with feeling entitled?

I was talking about how there are residual affects from societal changes. Power shifting away from any group that has held it long term is a very large change and it's going to have affects upon the populace for a time. A residual feeling of loss, being 'screwed over' or being 'deserving' of more than what they currently have is an affect that can occur with such changes.

 

I am not saying that all white males feel entitled - at all.

 

it's usually found in people who seek redress for wrongs so far past they should have been forgotten.

I find it's most common in perpetual 'victims' who seem to think they've done the world a great service by having been born... and that goes for both sexes (and more than just white folks too).

[theBrokenMuse]

I'm saying that the freedom we all enjoy today was given to us by "entitled white men".

While this is true I don't understand how that pertains to what you were responding to as a counterpoint.

 

So, what am I supposedly entitled to? Racist comments?

Personally, I think without getting into political stuff, we are entitled to basic human rights. I don't think you are saying you are entitled to anything. I have, however, heard angry white males who do feel entitled. I also have run into white women, black men, ect. with the same attitudes (usually under much different banners).

 

How about getting jumped outside a bar because of my skin color? Or struggling for college scholarships because my skin color means I'm supposed to have the money to pay it out of pocket? How about discrimination lawsuits because I fired 2 minority employees I caught doing drugs at work?

All that stuff sucks. I know white people can be discriminated against just like anyone else.

 

That doesn't mean I have not faced adversity or discrimination.

Of course not. I don't think anyone would be daft enough to suggest that anyone is bulletproof when it comes to such instances.

 

Yes at one point white males where the dominant power in a large chunk of the world. Actually... I think we can include white females in this category as well.

Yep. Both males and females have both experienced white privilege.

[sumdude]

I was talking about how there are residual affects from societal changes. Power shifting away from any group that has held it long term is a very large change and it's going to have affects upon the populace for a time. A residual feeling of loss, being 'screwed over' or being 'deserving' of more than what they currently have is an affect that can occur with such changes.

 

 

What doesn't help is when the previously 'oppressed' feel a need to stick it back to the perceived oppressors. Who probably aren't even alive anymore and so the next generation gets the 'stick it back to the man' thing though they had nothing to do with it . Yes it's a fraction of the population but they are there and I've experienced it.

 

The other night I caught the movie Invictus. Nelson Mandela went out of his way to heal South Africa as much as possible by avoiding this exact retribution attitude from the black population towards the white Afrikaners. An inspiring story and man.

[sally4sara]

I wish there was a way I didn't have to trust anyone.

 

Then you would not be able to be a person of honor. The extension of trust is made through the belief that others could be honorable too. If one didn't believe others were capable of being honorable, they WOULD call attention to themselves all the time for how honorable they were out of everyone else.

 

To have had your trust broke and still be able to extend it again is one of the biggest acts of bravery most people are afforded. We won't all be called to the front lines of a war. We won't all be the one to face down an attacker or rescue another life. But we will all have our trust broke and only some of us will be brave enough to attempt again.

 

And that is what I learned from being a single mother and accepting my husband into my life. I was terrified. He was not the first guy I dated after my ex and I split. But he was the first guy I trusted enough to risk it all. It was only that much harder knowing any awful outcome would not just effect me, but also my son that made it all the more scary. With every step of it I sweated bullets, but in the end I took that risk and extend trust. It is what had to happen for me to be where I am today.

 

I hope you risk being brave in this way one day. I've never been so happy in my life as I am now. I know that part of what makes me the great mother I am I owe to my husband. He is a man of honor. I read people talk about how stupid a man would have to be to be in his shoes with me and my son and it makes me want to knock their teeth down their throats knowing they are not even half the man he is and yet they'd judge his actions this way.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I hope you risk being brave in this way one day. I've never been so happy in my life as I am now. I know that part of what makes me the great mother I am I owe to my husband. He is a man of honor. I read people talk about how stupid a man would have to be to be in his shoes with me and my son and it makes me want to knock their teeth down their throats knowing they are not even half the man he is and yet they'd judge his actions this way.

 

I've been able to pick myself up and try again for a very long time. It's just the down time on this one has been really long... and I'm at a point where I'm just downright cynical.

 

Your husband is a strong guy.

[sally4sara]

I've been able to pick myself up and try again for a very long time. It's just the down time on this one has been really long... and I'm at a point where I'm just downright cynical.

 

Your husband is a strong guy.

 

Not according to you. To you he is a biological failure.

[112233]

Not according to you. To you he is a biological failure.

 

Survival (and reproduction) of the fittest isn't the fittest individuals, it's of the fittest genes. A lot of nitwits can't get their heads around this.

[sally4sara]

Survival (and reproduction) of the fittest isn't the fittest individuals, it's of the fittest genes. A lot of nitwits can't get their heads around this.

 

I'm talking about what he said about men like my husband in another thread that inspired this one.

 

He called all men who knowingly raise children that are not their own biological failures. All that tells me is the compliment he gave my husband in this one was not a reflection of his opinion, but just some fake courtesy he extended because the dialog between us was polite.

 

Fake. He is fake. He is hateful. He would seek to shame an honorable man such as my husband for their choice in caring for a child they did not create. His teeth and I should never knowingly meet in person. He is not worth the sweat that trickles down his backside during sex because it would be all for proving himself a biological success.

[112233]

He called all men who knowingly raise children that are not their own biological failures.

 

Well frankly, if that's what he said it's wrong. There's no component of "knowingly" to it. Knowledge in this context is completely moot, all that matters is, as one researcher puts it, grandchildren.

 

Also interestingly, by staunchly defending and praising your fella, you are furthering your own genetic agenda.

[sally4sara]

Well frankly, if that's what he said it's wrong. There's no component of "knowingly" to it. Knowledge in this context is completely moot, all that matters is, as one researcher puts it, grandchildren.

 

Also interestingly, by staunchly defending and praising your fella, you are furthering your own genetic agenda.

 

What is my genetic agenda? Do you feel that I only recognize my husband as a good man as part of some conspiracy I hope to enact on the population of Earth?

[112233]

What is my genetic agenda? Do you feel that I only recognize my husband as a good man as part of some conspiracy I hope to enact on the population of Earth?

 

I'm not saying you are plotting anything. However, you exist because the genes that code for you as an individual have succeeded in multiplying throughout the gene pool, and the behaviors they program into you are behaviors that promote the likelihood of their being further propagated.

 

So when you praise and encourage and "recognize as a good man" you are in fact performing actions that promote the survival of yourself and your child. Your genes have an agenda and you are furthering it, possibly without even recognizing it as such.

[sally4sara]

I'm not saying you are plotting anything. However, you exist because the genes that code for you as an individual have succeeded in multiplying throughout the gene pool, and the behaviors they program into you are behaviors that promote the likelihood of their being further propagated.

 

So when you praise and encourage and "recognize as a good man" you are in fact performing actions that promote the survival of yourself and your child. Your genes have an agenda and you are furthering it, possibly without even recognizing it as such.

 

My son and I would survive without him. I value him because he is a good influence in our lives - not because he ensures our survival.

 

Not everything I value am I dependent on for my survival. I think you knew this already. Got a favorite song or book? Is it your favorite because it keeps you alive?

[112233]

My son and I would survive without him. I value him because he is a good influence in our lives - not because he ensures our survival.

 

Of course this is probably true, however I suspect that your life is better and your odds of providing a good launching pad (for lack of better metaphor) for your child vastly improve by keeping him around. By improving the circumstances of your family, you improve the survival and propagation odds of your genes.

 

Again, it's not about *your* survival, it's your genes survival, and they are sneaky.

[sally4sara]

Of course this is probably true, however I suspect that your life is better and your odds of providing a good launching pad (for lack of better metaphor) for your child vastly improve by keeping him around. By improving the circumstances of your family, you improve the survival and propagation odds of your genes.

 

Again, it's not about *your* survival, it's your genes survival, and they are sneaky.

 

Should we have more children in our lives, it would be via adoption, fostering, or (as we do now) volunteer work. We also are very close friends with people who sit on the board for the foreign exchange program here in our city. We've talked of doing that too.

While it is important that my son's needs are met, I did not plan to see to those needs by finding a new mate. I wanted love and a connection. That I met a man who, well before he met me, believed in adopting over having a biological child was luck or fate or whatever you call it.

 

So too is it luck that the example of my husband as a father to my child has gotten under my ex's skin enough that he has put down the bottle and begun to make changes within himself that benefit my son. That he is that competitive it actually becoming a good thing. I don't hold my breath that it will be a lasting change nor would I ever find him appealing again over his efforts, but I do know he never cared enough to bother until he saw that he was being phased out of his son's life by his own lacking until someone else was outshining him. It seems my husband is now raising two men at once. One 13 and one 39.

[112233]

.... While it is important that my son's needs are met, I did not plan ....

 

So too is it luck ... that he has put down the bottle and begun to make changes within himself that benefit my son.

 

As I said, those genes are sneaky little buggers. Don't let that get under your skin, we all have them.

[sally4sara]

As I said, those genes are sneaky little buggers. Don't let that get under your skin, we all have them.

 

You know, the new angle on being competitive my ex has been showing, did make me wonder if my husband would be bothered over it.

 

Instead, he only cares that it benefits his step son. "Whatever works" was his take on it.