It's Never Over

[KarmasTestDummy]

I wondered the same exact thing.

 

Guess God is only thrown around when someone thinks they are making a point, in favor of affairs

 

 

 

Agree

 

 

 

Yes, Karma is the poster who said she loves drama and is addicted to it.

 

 

 

You mean like split self, narcassicm, bi-polar or any other armchair words many OW like to throw around?

 

Do you have any advice for KTD or did you just post to be snarky?

 

KTD, Like so many others, I am sad for you.

 

He isn't your boyfriend. He is a married man with a wife and 4 kids he has no intention of leaving. He could have left before, but he chose not to. He TOLD you he wanted to give her another chance and he wanted you for a F buddy.

 

Seems he got his wish And please, let's not name him FOTY for being a parent. He also has allowed (and possibly still does) drugs in the home. He has chosen to turn a blind eye to it all. His children have had to live in that home with dope and dope stuff all around them. What happens when one of his kids realizes what that stuff is?

 

And your kids? Do they know he has a wife and 4 kids? I doubt it. But it makes you feel good to pretend to have a "family" with him. You don't want to be alone. You need a man. You never were good with being the "OW" and yet now, you say you are.

 

Good luck with that and I truly hope you can find peace in your decisions. I truly hope your children don't get attached to this man who will disappear from their lives once his wife truly finds out what he is doing. If he wanted to leave, he would. But he doesn't. And he stays.

 

I do not love drama..but I have admitted to being drawn to dramatic circumstances in which I am felt needed from a nurturing standpoint. Mm does not take advantage of anything I do not offer willingly, which comes in the form of love, kindness, and support. It's something his wife should be providing but isn't, therefore is he to be faulted for being drawn to someone that does? Maybe, maybe not...but nobody here is God or his jury. I don't pretend to know his intentions, so please do not either. I do know that hurting me or my family is the last thing he wants.

 

We can go back and argue the weed issue as making him a bad father for allowing her to have it in the house or care for the children under the influence, but medicinal marijuana is legal and she does now have a legal prescription that both the state and Child protective services says is sufficient enough. It's a matter of being responsible with it just like alcohol and tobacco.

[KarmasTestDummy]

You're in a difficult situation. Please don't become addicted to hope.

 

Have you set a deadline for yourself? Are you caring for yourself? Or are you mostly focused supporting MM and his life right now? (MM often seek affairs with highly empathetic "nice" women. "Divas" wouldn't put up with them, and they know it.)

 

The drama of flip-flopping makes MM the focus of both women's attention. Such men are often more interested in attention and power than in love and caring toward either woman. I imagine the push-pull creates an addictive pattern for everyone involved, and amplified inflation/deflation feelings get mistaken for love when it's really just attachment. Love is about peace and caring and contentment, not drama and pining and hurt.

 

But Paul Newman left his wife and little kids for Joanne after a long-term affair, and their marriage become iconic (which is ironic in view of what happened before they married).... So it happens.

 

You know the situation better than anyone else here. I wish you luck.

 

I do not have a date in mind. I'll know when enough is enough...and it will come after discussion and decision making on both parts. It's not like I will love him less January 1st than I do December 31st. I think the concept of setting a deadline is irrational and likely just another means of setting me up for failure much like going NC.

 

Ahhh Paul Newman, yes. As did Johnny Cash and June Carter...Brad and Angelina. I know many couples that have resulted from affairs and are happy and trust eachother. Personally I know it's possible and to hear only negativity and doubt from a forum full of women here only because they were burned is not altogether objective.

[desertIslandCactus]

 

But Paul Newman left his wife and little kids for Joanne after a long-term affair, and their marriage become iconic (which is ironic in view of what happened before they married).... So it happens.

 

 

 

Yes, get involved in charity .. and 50 yrs from now, hardly anyone will remember.

 

(Hey, maybe that would work for Edwards) ..

[whichwayisup]

I do not have a date in mind. I'll know when enough is enough...and it will come after discussion and decision making on both parts. It's not like I will love him less January 1st than I do December 31st. I think the concept of setting a deadline is irrational and likely just another means of setting me up for failure much like going NC.

 

Noone can predict what is going to happen next. You two could have another D-Day, maybe he'll choose you, maybe he'll choose his wife, maybe he'll choose to do nothing and do what he does best...Have two women in his life to make him feel complete. Time will tell.

 

My worry for you, like the last time(s), how this is going to further damage you, how your heart will be broken and the insecuries, pain and heartache that this affair continues to bring into your life, losing who YOU are.

 

It's so easy to say "I am his OW and I accept my role" or something along those lines, emotions, your emotions will play a huge part in this and I'm not sure how long you can do this before you want more from him, and have higher expectations. That just happens as time goes along..Especially in your situation.

 

Shield that heart of yours.

[alexandria35]

I just want to echo what FO wrote about your kids. Please don't let them get attached to this guy. He has no business playing a father role in their lives and as their mother you should be protecting them from possible heartache. Why are you letting your kids get close to a guy who told you to your face that he wants you for a sex buddy? And I have to ask how is this guy such a great dad to his children when he's over at your place, eating dinner, watching movies and acting like dad to your kids? How does that work?

 

I'm sorry you have put yourself back into this drama filled hell. You did tell us that you are attracted to drama and that you have always had drama filled relationships. How is it that you disagree with this now?

 

The relationship you have with this guy doesn't have much to do with love. I think it has become more about an unresolved past. Maybe you have some things left over from childhood that are clouding your vision. Your feelings for this man are not healthy. Healthy love is something that enriches and benefits ours lives and when we love ourselves in a healthy way we walk away from that which does not benefit us. You said something about the only thing worse than being with him is not being with him....that sounds like picking one misery as being better than the other misery, that sounds like addiction.

 

I have had this kind of relationship and breakup. It wasn't an affair but it was a very dramatic and addictive relationship and just like you, I felt like the pain of being with him was better than the pain of being without him. Looking back I can clearly see now that he just triggered the negative stuff in me that was already there but that I hadn't dealt with. I triggered him in the same way and this resulted in a hugely passionate, emotionally charged relationship. And you know what? I still love the guy, but it has settled down into a more mature accepting love. I love him but I love myself too. Between the two, I picked me, which meant he had to go. He wasn't worth the pain not because he was worthless but just because nobody is worth suffering that much emotional pain over. I wish him well but bye bye.

 

I hope that someday you reach the point of being able to choose yourself too. In the meantime, please don't let your children be involved with him. You probably think they will be fine no matter what happens, that they won't be hurt when he suddenly disappears from their lives for good. I wouldn't bank on that, kids oftentimes don't express their loss but that doesn't mean they don't feel it.

[Sidtheskid]

I do not have a date in mind. I'll know when enough is enough...and it will come after discussion and decision making on both parts. It's not like I will love him less January 1st than I do December 31st. I think the concept of setting a deadline is irrational and likely just another means of setting me up for failure much like going NC.

 

Ahhh Paul Newman, yes. As did Johnny Cash and June Carter...Brad and Angelina. I know many couples that have resulted from affairs and are happy and trust eachother. Personally I know it's possible and to hear only negativity and doubt from a forum full of women here only because they were burned is not altogether objective.

 

KTD: You should love who you love- No objection here. Love everyone with everything you have and let that love take you places.

[desertIslandCactus]

Noone can predict what is going to happen next. You two could have another D-Day, maybe he'll choose you, maybe he'll choose his wife, maybe he'll choose to do nothing and do what he does best...Have two women in his life to make him feel complete. Time will tell.

 

My worry for you, like the last time(s), how this is going to further damage you, how your heart will be broken and the insecuries, pain and heartache that this affair continues to bring into your life, losing who YOU are.

 

It's so easy to say "I am his OW and I accept my role" or something along those lines, emotions, your emotions will play a huge part in this and I'm not sure how long you can do this before you want more from him, and have higher expectations. That just happens as time goes along..Especially in your situation.

 

Shield that heart of yours.

 

The man's fresh out of NC and is being all attentive, communicative, appreciative, greatful.

 

The pendulum has to swing one way or the other. I don't know that he has what it takes to keep two women happy.

[Sidtheskid]

The man's fresh out of NC and is being all attentive, communicative, appreciative, greatful.

 

The pendulum has to swing one way or the other. I don't know that he has what it takes to keep two women happy.

 

Doesn't that depend on what makes the women "happy"?

[whichwayisup]

KTD: You should love who you love- No objection here. Love everyone with everything you have and let that love take you places.

 

You sound exactly like JennieJennie...

 

Just because *one* loves someone, doesn't mean they have to have them, especially when the situation itself is so unhealthy, addictive and self serving. The damage that is continually being done and will continue to do is going to be bad.

 

alexandria, awesome post reply!

[whichwayisup]

Doesn't that depend on what makes the women "happy"?

 

Like abused woman who are too afraid to leave.. Like a woman who is in a bad relationship or a marriage, but are too afrad to be alone, to start over, so they stay, like a woman who is in a very uhealthy situation, and I believe knows it too, yet is too weak, too afraid to let go. Fear of losing what she feels she'll never have again with someone else, someone better than who she's with now.

 

Again, you sound just like JJ, Sid.

[desertIslandCactus]

Doesn't that depend on what makes the women "happy"?

 

As I outlined in my last post, obviously is what it is, as of now..

 

What makes the two of you happy. WTFBBQ asked in an earlier post what gender you are.. since you have posted as both.

[desertIslandCactus]

You sound exactly like JennieJennie...

 

Just because *one* loves someone, doesn't mean they have to have them, especially when the situation itself is so unhealthy, addictive and self serving. The damage that is continually being done and will continue to do is going to be bad.

 

alexandria, awesome post reply!

 

Yup. When Robert Morris stole my precious valuables out of storage, he thought he needed them more than I.

[alexandria35]

You sound exactly like JennieJennie...

 

Just because *one* loves someone, doesn't mean they have to have them, especially when the situation itself is so unhealthy, addictive and self serving. The damage that is continually being done and will continue to do is going to be bad.

 

alexandria, awesome post reply!

 

Perfect! That's what I was trying to say. Here I wrote out this long post and you summed it up in 2 sentences...lol.

 

Healthy love isn't needy...when the love we have for another person is healthy, we can let them go and not be totally destroyed by making a rational decision. It's the needy, dyfunctional stuff that keeps people hanging onto bad relationships.

[bentnotbroken]

I do not have a date in mind. I'll know when enough is enough...and it will come after discussion and decision making on both parts. It's not like I will love him less January 1st than I do December 31st. I think the concept of setting a deadline is irrational and likely just another means of setting me up for failure much like going NC.

 

Ahhh Paul Newman, yes. As did Johnny Cash and June Carter...Brad and Angelina. I know many couples that have resulted from affairs and are happy and trust eachother. Personally I know it's possible and to hear only negativity and doubt from a forum full of women here only because they were burned is not altogether objective.

 

 

Actually you and no one else knows anything but the public persona shown. You don't know if any of these relationships were faithful but none of them have anything to do with you or this mess.

 

Before I was "burned:confused:" I knew cheating was and always will be wrong.

[pureinheart]

I do not have a date in mind. I'll know when enough is enough...and it will come after discussion and decision making on both parts. It's not like I will love him less January 1st than I do December 31st. I think the concept of setting a deadline is irrational and likely just another means of setting me up for failure much like going NC.

 

Ahhh Paul Newman, yes. As did Johnny Cash and June Carter...Brad and Angelina. I know many couples that have resulted from affairs and are happy and trust eachother. Personally I know it's possible and to hear only negativity and doubt from a forum full of women here only because they were burned is not altogether objective.

 

OMG, The movie about Johnny Cash and the relationship he had with June reminded me so much of how exDM was...hey ya know what girl, like I said earlier there must be unfinished business, and from having been there, it has to be played out...I totally understand...

Edited December 8, 2010 by pureinheart

[alexandria35]

I do not have a date in mind. I'll know when enough is enough...and it will come after discussion and decision making on both parts. It's not like I will love him less January 1st than I do December 31st. I think the concept of setting a deadline is irrational and likely just another means of setting me up for failure much like going NC.

 

Ahhh Paul Newman, yes. As did Johnny Cash and June Carter...Brad and Angelina. I know many couples that have resulted from affairs and are happy and trust eachother. Personally I know it's possible and to hear only negativity and doubt from a forum full of women here only because they were burned is not altogether objective.

 

 

Okay, how exactly do the people and affairs you mentioned mirror your affair? Brad and Angelina? As far as I know Brad ended his marriage pretty quickly after falling in love with Angelina. Don't think he had her as a mistress for very long at all, I doubt Angelina would have have put up with it. Jonny and June? Jonny Cash was a drug user, alcoholic and womanizer throughout his entire first marriage. In 1968 he quit doing drugs and later the same year he recommited himself to God. He also married June in 1968. If he had not made these huge changes in his personal life his marriage to June probably would have been much the same as his first marriage. I don't know anything about Paul Newman but seriously do you think he handled his affair like your MM is handling yours?

[desertIslandCactus]

Okay, how exactly do the people and affairs you mentioned mirror your affair? Brad and Angelina? As far as I know Brad ended his marriage pretty quickly after falling in love with Angelina. Don't think he had her as a mistress for very long at all, I doubt Angelina would have have put up with it. Jonny and June? Jonny Cash was a drug user, alcoholic and womanizer throughout his entire first marriage. In 1968 he quit doing drugs and later the same year he recommited himself to God. He also married June in 1968. If he had not made these huge changes in his personal life his marriage to June probably would have been much the same as his first marriage. I don't know anything about Paul Newman but seriously do you think he handled his affair like your MM is handling yours?

 

To my mind, any relationship started at the expense of another, or while in a marriage to another ... has STAIN written all over it ... I don't care how they are glamourized.

[desertIslandCactus]

 

Healthy love isn't needy...when the love we have for another person is healthy, we can let them go and not be totally destroyed by making a rational decision. It's the needy, dyfunctional stuff that keeps people hanging onto bad relationships.

 

... And when the two are Free, equally yoked, and of the Same accord.

[KarmasTestDummy]

I hear you all...I've always heard you all, but this time, I have to do what works for me because I'm the only one who has to live this life and feel my emotion. Sound warnings aren't enough anymore, I know this is a lesson I may have to learn the hard way...but I'd like to hope that my fate isn't doomed just because I had to be patient for what I want.

[xxoo]

to hear only negativity and doubt from a forum full of women here only because they were burned is not altogether objective.

 

I haven't been burned, fwiw.

 

But Karma, your OP on this thread is negative. Your titleis negative. For the reader, it looks like a really painful situation. Why wouldn't the responses be full of negativity and doubt?

[jthorne]

I hear you all...I've always heard you all, but this time, I have to do what works for me because I'm the only one who has to live this life and feel my emotion. Sound warnings aren't enough anymore, I know this is a lesson I may have to learn the hard way...but I'd like to hope that my fate isn't doomed just because I had to be patient for what I want.

And what is it exactly that you want?

[woinlove]

I can't do it another minute. No sooner had I posted my last update that he had maintained NC, did he contact me, after at least 2 weeks. The very second i'm in an emotional state thinking about him again does he always seem to be going through the same thing. I have tried, and tried, and triiiiiieeeedddd....but allowing myself to love him is the path of least resistance. I am ready to accept my role as the other woman, battle wounds, guilt, trust, it is all a part of me now because the only thing harder than being with him is being away from him.

 

This doesn't sound good. I hope you don't delay expecting better for yourself too much longer.

[bentnotbroken]

And what is it exactly that you want?

 

 

To be in a mess of drama...because it is luwb.

[KarmasTestDummy]

I haven't been burned, fwiw.

 

But Karma, your OP on this thread is negative. Your titleis negative. For the reader, it looks like a really painful situation. Why wouldn't the responses be full of negativity and doubt?

 

I think my spin on it that came off negative was because I've been given a real good licking from lS posters time and time again telling me to leave it alone. Admitting I didn't is like a head-shy dog that wants to just cowar down in a corner...but truth be told, I'm currently on cloud nine and if I felt like it was a situation I could shout from the rooftops I would.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Okay, how exactly do the people and affairs you mentioned mirror your affair? Brad and Angelina? As far as I know Brad ended his marriage pretty quickly after falling in love with Angelina. Don't think he had her as a mistress for very long at all, I doubt Angelina would have have put up with it. Jonny and June? Jonny Cash was a drug user, alcoholic and womanizer throughout his entire first marriage. In 1968 he quit doing drugs and later the same year he recommited himself to God. He also married June in 1968. If he had not made these huge changes in his personal life his marriage to June probably would have been much the same as his first marriage. I don't know anything about Paul Newman but seriously do you think he handled his affair like your MM is handling yours?

 

If I had to mirror mine to any it would be Johnny and June based at least what I know from the movie. A loveless marriage, filled with anger and neglect. Nobody was happy...but June made him a better person. She is the reason he turned over a new leaf and wanted to be a better man. His was an obsession with her much like the one an affair fog creates. She tried to pull away many times, she wasn't sure if she was emotionally available, she struggled with her love because of who he was and being married. In the end she gave her all and devoted herself to him and their passion and devotion for eachother despite all odds has been memorialized.