This could be why you can't just leave him

[Just a stone's throw]

Hey LD and FOG, good to 'see' you both too. Am wishing you both well and speed in healing through all of this. Wow, what a process.

 

It would be better if I was NC vs. LC which is profession-related. I really have to try and move away from that too. I am very pragmatic, usually when it comes to relationships and such and i really couldn't figure out why this one, of all the relationships I've been in has affected me so weirdly.

 

Perhaps I'll do some "light research" over the holidays!! If I find anything of interest I'll post it.

 

Thank goodness for LS where we learn we're not 'freaks'.

 

JAST

[redcurls]

I got the "The Betrayal Bond" by Patrick Carnes last night and its simply unbelievable. It has some writing assignments that he recommends and actual step by step processes to follow. I just started reading and in still in the "explanation" portion of the book but I will report back once I get to the "solutions" portion.

[Breezy Trousers]

I'm late to this thread. Fieldsofgold, I think you nailed it. Patrick Carnes' book is certainly one of the most important books I've ever read in my life. Thanks for bringing this up.

 

I do think there's the potential for a trauma link when there's a significant exploitation of power imbalance between the two parties -- for example, a therapist with a patient, a boss with a subordinate, a teacher with a student. Affairs involving power imbalances can echo earlier sexual abuse issues we're not even aware of. Twice in my life I resisted affairs with men who had great power over me and, unfortunately, bad boundaries. In both instances, I was in a very vulnerable period in my life.... At the time, I couldn't understand why I was so tempted to cross my own moral code to have inappropriate relationships with these guys. In both cases, I immediately put NC into effect but remained obsessed with them for a long time. In the end, both experiences forced me to explore earlier trauma bonding issues ..... Of course, I had no awareness of this at the beginning of the attractions. I convinced myself that I was falling in love with my soul mate, someone who would make me feel safe in the world -- not realizing how profoundly unsafe each man was. (Denial: "Don't Even Know I Am Lying.")

 

The first temptation I had was, ironically, after my husband confessed to an affair in group therapy. The male therapist told me he would "support" me through it. Without going into specifics, I cut off the therapeutic relationship after 13 weeks because I was afraid something would start up. I didn't trust the therapist to maintain professional boundaries. I didn't trust myself either.... Amazingly, the next therapist my husband and I saw knew this man. During our first session, she casually asked who we had been seeing for therapy before her .. Her eyes nearly popped out of her head when I told her the name of the male therapist! She went on to say I made a good call -- that the male therapist had been kicked out of a professional organization for stalking two women he was "teaching," and there were many rumored "inappropriate" relationships. (Always listen to your intuition!) ...That's when we began exploring childhood abuse issues in therapy, and I was encouraged to read Carnes' book on traumatic bonding. In fact, I think reading Carnes' book prevented me from ruining my life with another, far more disturbed man in 2008/2009.

 

The discounting behavior that occurs in affairs -- already outlined by you -- would certainly qualify as trauma or forms of emotional abuse.

 

Experts often say that doing exciting activities together will bring two people closer together, even if the two people were not previously bonded. And, of course, affairs are nothing if not exciting. Now I'm wondering if "excitement" bonding and trauma bonding are all that different from each other ...

 

Good thread.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Breezy Trousers

[Breezy Trousers]

P.S. If we don't completely heal ourselves after the first affair or temptation, life will usually present another situation very similar to it later on -- usually in a far more intense form so we "really get it this time"! The less conscious we are, the more time we waste and the more psychic damage we experience. That's why books like this are so important to read.

[alexa_s]

I feel your pain. I have loved men who I thought felt the same way about me.

 

One of the things I learned is to love myself and put myself first before I enter a serious relationship.

 

Hang in there.

[Breezy Trousers]

 

I read about people here who are in these relationships that have so many unhealthy features, (which they tend to minimize, or to which they are oblivious,) and they talk about the incredible bond they have with the person - I think that incredible bond is simply abuse bonding/trauma bonding.*

 

I think the draw to stay in the relationship even once they realize it is hurtful and unhealthy, is trauma bonding, and that need to "fix" the broken relationship, this time, is trauma repetition. You keep getting in abusive relationships, trying to fix it this time.

 

I also came to see that anyone in an A, (with the possible exception of OWoman) is in an abusive relationship of some degree. I've mentioned why affairs are abusive in a previous post on this thread. Based on my previous postings, I believe that if a person is in an affair, they are in fact in an emotionally abusive relationship. The back and forth of abandonment, neglect, and then the "reward" of affection and attention - no matter how subtle it may be, has all the dynamics of an abusive R.

 

I believe people who have experienced trauma (including accumulative trauma), are more susceptible to getting into affairs, and that trauma bonding keeps them there, and keeps them thinking that the incredible connection is love.

 

 

This is worth repeating. Well said.

[Heather1]

This would be me....

 

I'm embarrassed to even say what happened for the split (this time). Last year we got really close before Christmas & he said things that kind of scared me. I've even told him that our bond is like the one in the movie "The Secretary." He see's her visible scars & is immediately attracted. My vulnerability at the time was a string of deaths. Since then, the dynamic is not a love dynamic at all, but I'm totally familiar w/ it. My Dad has NPD & even my Mom lacks empathy. I do the best I can.....

 

I actually got an email from him today that was SO inappropriate!! It made me sick that I allow someone to talk to me like that! At the same time, it totally turned me on.

 

Yep, not love.

[ladydesigner]

This would be me....

 

I'm embarrassed to even say what happened for the split (this time). Last year we got really close before Christmas & he said things that kind of scared me. I've even told him that our bond is like the one in the movie "The Secretary." He see's her visible scars & is immediately attracted. My vulnerability at the time was a string of deaths. Since then, the dynamic is not a love dynamic at all, but I'm totally familiar w/ it. My Dad has NPD & even my Mom lacks empathy. I do the best I can.....

 

I actually got an email from him today that was SO inappropriate!! It made me sick that I allow someone to talk to me like that! At the same time, it totally turned me on.

 

Yep, not love.

 

Oh boy do I remember this too. My XAP, though this was during our LC, did the same exact thing and would say oh so many inappropriate things to me. Like you I was turned on by them. Not love by any means.

 

It is really sad sometimes I prefer my H to be more sadist than sweet, it is such a sickness. I really need to get myself into IC again. Sometimes I wonder if these things are so ingrained that it is impossible to change it. It sure feels like it sometimes.

[fooled once]

I can't send you a PM (too new here, I guess) but I wanted to express my gratitude. It very well may be that you have saved my life. I mean it. Today was the first day in the last 12 months that I didn't wish for him to contact me, in fact - I turned my phone off (I haven't done this since the day I met him.) I will be free of this toxicity, and its all because you have opened my eyes.

 

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

 

FoG is awesome!!!!