The dreaded "open relationship" discussion...

[UnsureinSeattle]

Marriage is just a word to me. A far more important word is "commitment." There're lots of reasons that a couple might not want to be married... particularly if you're not religious or your financial situation wouldn't change all that much by getting married...

[NoLongerSad]

I can hardly see why anyone is offended that the young lady in question wants to openly resume sexual relations with her ex-boss/neighbor.

 

After all, shouldn't the father of her child be commended for wanting to remain in a loving relationship with the child's mother?

[karnak]

 

personally, i dont think marriage is for everyone or every couple. from what i have read, watched, experienced.... the core meaning of marriage gets buried more often than not behind extravagant weddings, wedding rings, financial reasons, religious beliefs.... it seems like it is more of a business decision to most than what it is really meant to be about.

 

 

Very, very true.

[elemental1]

I can hardly see why anyone is offended that the young lady in question wants to openly resume sexual relations with her ex-boss/neighbor.

 

After all, shouldn't the father of her child be commended for wanting to remain in a loving relationship with the child's mother?

 

 

i am not sure i get you here...your statements seem to be conflicting...

you can hardly see why anyone is offended that she wants to have sexual relations with this guy?.... do you mean that people shouldnt be offended that she wants to be with another man and not the father of her child?.... elaborate lol.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Coming from someone who has been in an open marriage for 7 years, I will tell you that starting an Open Marriage with friends is NOT a good idea. They may feel safe and comfortable but you already have relationship with these people. It is eaiser for someone to fall in love with someone else when there is already a strong feeling for that person. Even if it is just friendship at first. As crass as this sounds it is best to find another couple that you don't already know. Talk about the risk factors with the other party. Communicate any and all fears with them. Once that repor is there then meet up and see what happens. Never try to push a pesron or a situation on someone. Go slow and watch and pay attention to your partner. Make sure she/he is comfortable. If you are considering this life then you know each other well enough to pick up on any signs of resistance. If you are not both 100% sure you want to try this and give it an honest effort then it will fail. If you think you will get jelous if she moves differently with him or moans in a way she never has with you then DON"T dot it. Jealousy will always come up eventually no matter what kind of relationship you are in. Keep talking! Stay honest with each other. You need to be able to tell them anything and they should be willing to listen openly. Good luck!

[elemental1]

Coming from someone who has been in an open marriage for 7 years, I will tell you that starting an Open Marriage with friends is NOT a good idea. They may feel safe and comfortable but you already have relationship with these people. It is eaiser for someone to fall in love with someone else when there is already a strong feeling for that person. Even if it is just friendship at first. As crass as this sounds it is best to find another couple that you don't already know. Talk about the risk factors with the other party. Communicate any and all fears with them. Once that repor is there then meet up and see what happens. Never try to push a pesron or a situation on someone. Go slow and watch and pay attention to your partner. Make sure she/he is comfortable. If you are considering this life then you know each other well enough to pick up on any signs of resistance. If you are not both 100% sure you want to try this and give it an honest effort then it will fail. If you think you will get jelous if she moves differently with him or moans in a way she never has with you then DON"T dot it. Jealousy will always come up eventually no matter what kind of relationship you are in. Keep talking! Stay honest with each other. You need to be able to tell them anything and they should be willing to listen openly. Good luck!

 

i thank you for the insight - i think the thing that bugs me the most, and this is a very valid point, is that she has a desire to have sex with other people and we only have sex maybe 2-3 times a month. we have a 6 yr old and our schedules are somewhat conflicting, but when she and i dont have sex that often to begin with and she wants to have sex with other people....how am i supposed to take that?

 

i was never too bothered by her supposed lack of libido until she proposed an OR to me. it tells me that not only does she not desire sex with me, but that she also wants it with other people. talk about a nail in the heart...

i am an extremely open-minded person and i am willing to try this, but how can i when we barely have a sex life with each other? i am at a point in my life where i dont want to play games or complicate things any more than they are and i think that trying an open relationship will do just that. i could understand if we had sex 3-4 times a week...had more of a sexual connection, but it isnt like that so, open-minded or not, it really bothers me quite a bit knowing this and feeling this hurt, insecure, etc.

ugh..

[aerogurl87]

i thank you for the insight - i think the thing that bugs me the most, and this is a very valid point, is that she has a desire to have sex with other people and we only have sex maybe 2-3 times a month. we have a 6 yr old and our schedules are somewhat conflicting, but when she and i dont have sex that often to begin with and she wants to have sex with other people....how am i supposed to take that?

 

i was never too bothered by her supposed lack of libido until she proposed an OR to me. it tells me that not only does she not desire sex with me, but that she also wants it with other people. talk about a nail in the heart...

i am an extremely open-minded person and i am willing to try this, but how can i when we barely have a sex life with each other? i am at a point in my life where i dont want to play games or complicate things any more than they are and i think that trying an open relationship will do just that. i could understand if we had sex 3-4 times a week...had more of a sexual connection, but it isnt like that so, open-minded or not, it really bothers me quite a bit knowing this and feeling this hurt, insecure, etc.

ugh..

 

That's very understandable. Why make something complex and add other people to the mix when you can't even get things together with the person you're with now? I mean honestly I think she's being selfish and just using an OR as a means to find someone else and then possibly leave you. Happened to me with my ex. It went from "I want to talk to other women to build their self esteem" (while mine was in the gutter at that point in time, mind you) to "I'm leaving you for this wonderful person I met". It was all a ploy to just find a person to exit the relationship with, so be wary of an open relationship in this situation.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

i thank you for the insight - i think the thing that bugs me the most, and this is a very valid point, is that she has a desire to have sex with other people and we only have sex maybe 2-3 times a month. we have a 6 yr old and our schedules are somewhat conflicting, but when she and i dont have sex that often to begin with and she wants to have sex with other people....how am i supposed to take that?

i was never too bothered by her supposed lack of libido until she proposed an OR to me. it tells me that not only does she not desire sex with me, but that she also wants it with other people. talk about a nail in the heart...

i am an extremely open-minded person and i am willing to try this, but how can i when we barely have a sex life with each other? i am at a point in my life where i dont want to play games or complicate things any more than they are and i think that trying an open relationship will do just that. i could understand if we had sex 3-4 times a week...had more of a sexual connection, but it isnt like that so, open-minded or not, it really bothers me quite a bit knowing this and feeling this hurt, insecure, etc.

ugh..

 

And that is the crux of the matter...... No where near enough sex for you and her answer to it is that she needs to get sex elsewhere.... Wow.... I don't know where to start to get over or correct this.

[Flyin in Clouds]

First why aren't you married? Yes marriage is for everyone with a child. Marriage is about commitment and you haven't made that to each other. What are your vows? And you can have a civil ceremony. You don't have to be married in a church.

 

Did your SO have any sexual experience before you? She may just wonder if she's missing anything?

 

All that said, it sounds like your gf just wants out of the relationship or is just really wanting to try another man.

 

There are many variants of open relationships. Swinging, swapping, hotwife, cuckolds. But all really only work if the primary relationship is rock solid and I would say yours isn't. You need to have long discussions with your gf about this. What she wants, what you want, what she doesn't want (and if losing you isn't on her list without you asking her then you got real trouble), what you don't want. You have to talk -- openly and totally honestly with each other. if you can't do that your doomed.

 

There is another site - ourhotwives.org that has a discussion forum that discusses some the issues around the hotwife/cuckold lifestyles. Ask for help there too.

 

Many of the guys on that site enjoy their wife having sex with other men and it really revers up their sex life. BUT those couples are very secure in their relationship and love for one another. Their relationship always comes first, the other extra marital sex is always just fun and games. And mostly it is the guys that have to talk their wives into trying it.

 

You need to talk to your gf about her commitment to you and you need to buy her an engagement ring for Christmas. Then the two of you as a really committed couple can talk about easing into the lifestyles after a lot of deep soul searching. Those lifestyles are not for everyone but for some couples they do work and work well.

[luvstarved]

I was in an open marriage and it was a disaster. My H at the time was 12 years older than me and was able to convince me in theory that people are not naturally monogamous and that open relationships were the "enlightened" way to conduct your life.

 

But the theory did not match up with reality. There was nothing enlightened about it in practice. Yes, jealousy still exists no matter what, we're human beings with feelings, for crying out loud, but it was not just occasional discomfort and wondering...

 

It turned into some kind of twisted competition. Instead of being open-minded and allowing yourself the occasional pleasure/indulgence of getting physical with someone you were strongly attracted to, it turned into who can fu** the most people. As a woman, naturally, it was easier for me to rack up a high count, and so he even wanted a "handicap"...ie, wanted me to only choose another sex partner once for every time he was able to "land" someone.

 

In retrospect, it seems pretty weird to be calling yourself "enlightened" about something that speaks to one of our most primal animalistic urges.

 

I admit that I never really wanted it but was trying to be open-minded. I understand that it does work for some people, but they are in the minority, and it does not sound like OP wants it either...so I can't see it working in any incarnation.

 

In my case, once we agreed to this situation, and made ground rules and all that, it all just went to hell. In the end, it seemed that my H wanted to be able to f*** whomever he could while still having me all to himself. Furthermore, once permission was mutually given to f*** others, then f***ing others was no longer sufficient enticement and so then the fun of it was breaking the established rules...(we had a rule about keeping hands off of friends, which led to my friends being the most sexually interesting people to him).

 

I agree with others that it sounds like your GF intends one way or another to do the ex-boss. Has she discussed this with him, as far as you know, or has it been confined so far to casual flirting...does he KNOW this is what she wants, does he want it, too?

 

I also agree that this is not going to be easy, maybe not even possible, to work out to mutual satisfaction. You don't want it, and she seemingly can't stop thinking about it...this is already taking a large emotional toll on you, imagine how it would be if you agreed to it and then had to wonder what was going on every time the two of you were apart? That's where I ended up in my M...thinking if I went to the grocery store, he'd be trying to f*** someone else, and it was all-consuming and extremely unhealthy and finally I just bailed.

 

Wish I had more optimistic things to say...

[luvstarved]

One more thing I meant to say...I know you can't help it, but the moody/broody demeanor is only going to exacerbate things. I have that same issue in my current marriage...my current H does not want an open R, he just basically wants to be left to fantasy and masturbation but it still bugs me and I do get moody about it at times...but in the end, I do realize that it makes me even less attractive to him.

 

I am like you in that no matter how much I can understand these "external" thoughts and feelings intellectually, they still hit me in the gut. It GALLS me when I know my H is drooling over someone in particular or when I can hear him doing his own thing in the bathroom. At some level, I know he can't help his feelings, either, but...I guess it is like anyone that you want that does not want you. It just hurts. When it comes from your supposed lovemate, it hurts worse. I feel alternately rejected, devalued, resentful and acutely self-conscious...and it sucks.

 

What really gets me is when an SO uses the excuse that they "can't help" their feelings but in the same breath suggests that the other person should be able to. Like "you need to change to accept who I am because I am who I am and can't change"...um...maybe I can't change either! Maybe you cannot help wanting to do other people, but I cannot help feeling bothered by it...

 

Sigh! Good luck to you!

[Lovinhimlovinher]

A cheating spouse will often ask for an open relationship as a way of retroactively getting permission for their infidelity. This may in the future be combined with gaslighting the date the openness (or the affair) began.

 

 

None of us know if she will do it anyway. Everyone is just assuming and that does nothing to help him figure out the actual right thing to do. Is it possible that she loves him enough to ask? What is so bad about your partner NOT wanting to cheat on you and actually ask how you would feel. I agree with the postes that say she was young when they got together so there might be a lack or experience, but maybe she has been thinking about exploring and maybe wanted to do that with her best friend? Everyone always assumes the worst.

 

To the OP, I know you feel like you can not talk to her because of her temper but if you do not talk right now it will explode anyway. Stay calm and try to listen to what she is saying. Ask her what her thoughts are on how it would all work out later. What her rules would be and boundaries. Talk about it so she knows you are hearing her. That way when you tell her no it will be an informed decision. If she gets mad and does it anyway then it was obviously not meant to be. Good luck!

[Donutman]

I do have a bit of experience in this area,not recently but a few years ago my wife and I were in an open relationship,we only had a handful of experiences (me 2 and her about 6) but for me it was the best couple years of my life...but that being said the most important thing to consider here is communication and motives.

 

what I mean by this is,if someone in the relationship is asking to be with others away from their spouse that is a danger sign.

Sure,I can see it moving in that direction after some time,perhaps once in a while having one on one time with someone else,but it should never start that way or be the norm...reason being,feelings could develop very fast and also,the whole point to being in an open relationship (in my opinion) is to share new experiences together and if done correctly it can bring you closer together

 

that being said...personally one of our rules was never be involved with close friend or co-worker (my wife was very interested in being with her co-worker but we both agreed that was just too much temptation for feelings to develop)

 

if you are disgusted at the whole idea of ever imagining your wife sexually with someone else than this lifestyle is not for you at all,just explain to your wife you're sorry it just isn't for you

but from what I've read it doesn't seem that you're closing the door on the whole idea,just the idea of someone she already knows well...and that is perfectly reasonable...my suggestion is ask her if she would be open to trying this with someone else,let her pick someone else or pick someone together...I would suggest just meeting for drinks or a movie or something to see if jealousy issues creep up before it goes further

 

that's my opinion

I hope things work out,

Donutman

[elemental1]

again thanks to all who posted their thoughts and advice - ill try to answer most if not all questions that were asked.

 

i love my GF/wife (we have been together for almost 8 years so i have just gotten used to refering to her as my wife) - i trust her too. she has never really done anything - to my knowledge - that would jeopardize that trust. she is very honest with me and it is good that rather than acting on her urges and cheating, she asked me about it, brought it up in conversation, etc. i have always been open to fooling around with other couples (within certain boundaries) and we have had a few experiences in the past that were fun. but to outright live that lifestyle is not something i want. i am fairly certain that she doesnt want to live that lifestyle either, she just wants to have fun on the outside. the way she put it is that by doing this, we could "learn new tricks to bring home".

i dont entirely buy that though.

 

a few weeks ago i told her that an OR isnt what i want and in more or less words i told her that she can either choose to be single or choose me - she without hesitation chose me and told me that she isnt going anywhere and loves me very much and that this whole thing came up because she was enjoying the attention she was getting at work and just thought i would be all gung-ho about the idea of guiltlessly sleeping with other women...even said that i should go out one night and try to get lucky....as long as she could sleep with another man.

 

now, i have met this guy....in fact, we moved across the street from him two months ago (just by coincidence) - as ridiculous as that is. he seems to be a nice, respectful guy; hasnt done or said anything that would raise any flags. he and his GF come over and hang out sometimes for a few drinks and some laughs.... i am not attracted to her so i dont think a 'couples' thing is going to happen...just FYI. not to toot my own horn, but i am more physically attractive than this guy too..by her own admission and those of her friends apparently. now when this whole idea of an OR came up a year ago, she would mention it to her friends at work so i am pretty sure he knows about it. i am also pretty sure he knows she is/was attracted to him. i know he is attracted to her because she is a beautiful woman...beautiful face, nice body, bubbly personality, etc. but he also knows that she has a better-looking, long term boyfriend and that we have a child together. he knows she loves me and knows where i stand on the whole thing. still, in the back of his mind i know he wouldnt stop her if she tried something....she wouldnt...im just saying. they have both sent slightly questionable text messages to each other - but they can be considered innocent/harmless (hard to determine exact meaning in text messages). just minor flirting.

 

so if you are a woman and you have a BF who is attractive, respectful, loving, caring, takes care of you and your child, who is satisfying in bed, smart, funny, blah blah, etc. - then why would you want to go hook-up with a different, less-attractive guy?

i know looks arent the end-all be-all in this situation...i just dont get it.

there are plenty of "tricks" we could learn with each other, or by going to a sex shop, or maybe looking into meeting another couple, or by simply stepping outside our own comfort zones... the fact is, we dont have to go have one on one sex with another person as a way of spicing up our own sex life. this is what i dont get.

 

when we do have sex, it is satisfying on both ends. there is passion, lust, intensity, etc. we both enjoy it...so much so that when we do have sex, it usually happens a couple times in the same night - it satisfies me to satisfy her ya know?....and lately it has been happening more often because i basically told her that i want it at least once a week. (turns out that throwing a number out there, rather than just saying i want it more, works a lot better. lol)

so, if the sex IS satisfying (for the most part) then why does she want something different?

i agree that moping around about it just turns her off and essentially makes things worse so i have been trying not to show it and maintain a positive attitude... hate to say it, but 'positive thinking' does work in some cases. lol.

 

here is another internal battle. i want her to be happy...to do things that make her happy. i dont want her to feel like she is trapped. i also understand that our human desires are natural and that marriage is...well...unnatural, relatively speaking. i just cant help feeling territorial and jealous. sucks when two of your own strong beliefs contradict each other. lol.

[xxoo]

so if you are a woman and you have a BF who is attractive, respectful, loving, caring, takes care of you and your child, who is satisfying in bed, smart, funny, blah blah, etc. - then why would you want to go hook-up with a different, less-attractive guy?

.

 

It could be about wanting to feel attractive to another man--and have little to do with who the other man is. I've been with my H for 20 years, and he thinks I'm super hot, lol, but I do sometimes think "Yeah, but you love me....and you still see that young girl in me (the girl I was when he chose me)....but would any other man think I'm super hot?"

 

For me, it is just an occasional curiosity, and not a question I am seeking to answer. But, yeah, there is a certain outside validation that can come from other people that your own, steady, loving partner can't give. The feeling of "I've still got it".

 

On the other hand, there is something to be said for being able to drive the same partner wild for many monogamous years, you know? I'm beginning to honestly believe that keeping one man sexually satisfied for a couple decades demonstrates more sexual "accomplishment" than bedding many men over the same number of years. Any woman can get laid, but how many can keep a man this excited for this long? Maybe putting that spin on monogamy could help your gf.

[elemental1]

i understand the idea of feeling like you "still got it" - it always feels good when i get hit on..anyone would. i tend to think it might mean more to a woman than to a man.

it might be that she has been dedicated to one man (me) for almost her entire 20's and had a baby at 20 - she will be 27 in a couple months. from what i remember, my early 20's were some of the funnest times of my life so maybe she is feeling like she missed out?? it isnt like i shelter her or that i am overbearing - she can do whatever she wants (within reason).

i generally just want her to be happy. if being with someone else will make her happy, then she should go do it, but i dont think i can live a life like that so it would have to come to a choice. me or them.

it hasnt come to that and i dont think it will, but i guess that is my tolerable limit.

if she wants to do a couples thing - i am open to that...maybe even swinging but not a completely open relationship.

[shayan]

I've read this whole thing through and it seems your going to take a stand for yourself. I'm glad, know your own value.

 

good for you.

[Untouchable_Fire]

i understand the idea of feeling like you "still got it" - it always feels good when i get hit on..anyone would. i tend to think it might mean more to a woman than to a man.

it might be that she has been dedicated to one man (me) for almost her entire 20's and had a baby at 20 - she will be 27 in a couple months. from what i remember, my early 20's were some of the funnest times of my life so maybe she is feeling like she missed out?? it isnt like i shelter her or that i am overbearing - she can do whatever she wants (within reason).

i generally just want her to be happy. if being with someone else will make her happy, then she should go do it, but i dont think i can live a life like that so it would have to come to a choice. me or them.

it hasnt come to that and i dont think it will, but i guess that is my tolerable limit.

if she wants to do a couples thing - i am open to that...maybe even swinging but not a completely open relationship.

 

You sound like you are afraid of her. You bottle feelings and walk on egg shells to not make her angry... You let her flirt and do whatever she likes with other men... ect.

 

I know to you this makes you feel like a strong confident guy, but some women will see it differently.

 

You need to start pushing on her. Don't accept bitchy behavior from her when she gets angry. Do not act like a pushover doormat! Women hate that... and it will kill her libido! Also, it's Ok to be jealous. A good chunk of women feel that if you are not jealous or possessive a bit, that it means you don't care. So, my suggestion would be to combine jealousy with some romance and passion. Just to let her know you still want her.

 

If none of that fixes it... she isn't a good woman. You should be having sex much more frequently. I typically want it about 4-7 times a week.

[You Go Girl]

If I was married and my H said he wanted to fk his boss, I would probably tear up the house and throw the dishes against the wall, or at least have a good cry...and probably both.

I don't get it either.

 

Why does she feel that her love for you isn't enough? I'm not asking about your love for her--you obviously love her enough--I'm asking about her love for YOU!

 

And once a week is still crumbs. You want the whole cake.

[elemental1]

i think what has happened is that i basically let her get too comfortable - my own limits and boundaries were not clearly defined and for all this time she has had free reign with little complaint from me...and our relationship has worked thus far. but now all of this is happening and she is learning exactly what my limits are...and so am i apparently.

i am normally not a jealous guy for the most part and it is something i take pride in. but maybe she wants me to be...at least just a little.

i will remain open-minded about many things, but i will not stand by and let this happen. it comes down to a simple choice on her part. either me or him/them. if she decides she wants to have fun...even if it is a fleeting, one-time thing, then we are done. mother of my child or not, i will not subject myself to that sort of humiliation and heartache...nor will i put my...our son through the fallout of that.

the one thing that i know for sure is if the roles were reversed, she would react 10 times worse than i have.